Whites are second class citizens

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

How so? Aborigines receive government-donated houses that go to waste, they continue living in squalor, only to receive more free stuff. There are the Lebanese riots, but that's because they were being sexist. But you live there, so maybe you can enlighten us

Yes, it's true that aborigines do receive many benefits, and it's very political. The problem is, their own people have corrupted them by getting into politics and falling into the same ego traps that the white politicians fall into! It becomes more about power than doing the best thing for their people!

They get in power and push for all these things for these people, who have always been used to living off the land and not having very much to start with, and never really cared about any of the modern worlds 'glitter', and now they use the whole white invasion thing as a way of putting guilt trips on people who weren't even there when it happened!

When you say they get given free stuff and live in squalor, I think it's a basic lack of understanding that most white people have. It's RUDE to come into a country populated by another race and take over, and then expect them to give up the way they are used to living to become more like you and live the way you consider to be "civilized". Who is to say that our way of living is any better...just because we are used to our creature comforts. They are used to living a simple life, and the modern world has corrupted them.

If you go out to the outback, you will see that many aborigines out there are not doing so well. There are many issues for them, which I can not even go into as I don't even know the full story, but there are some people who have gone out there and worked with them who do know...I just don't know any of them personally.

Your way of thinking reflects the more general, and callous mentality that many Australians hold towards these people. It's a heartless way to be in my opinion. It's a very surface way of looking at it, and it neglects to take into account many factors that, when broken down, are easy to understand why they choose to live in squalor. They have different values to us...and we have come into their worlds and forced them to live like us.

If someone walked into your house right now and did a ♥♥♥♥ in the middle of your living room and then told you to dress like them, act like them, and basically give up everything you hold dear to become like them, what would you think? How would YOU feel?

The urban aborigines have forgotten their culture and basically just get drunk and hang around grocery stores, which make the general public uncomfortable, as they can be a bit intimidating, and just scab off passers by. I personally think they have been enabled to drink alcohol by white people who KNOW they don't handle alcohol very well, although I also think it is just a basic lack of understanding and unwillingness to recognize that they are seriously grieving and wounded from the atrocities of the past, and also, it is their choice to drink, and as adults, is it really up to us to stop them from drinking, even if they don't handle their booze well and it is killing them?

It is well known that islanders and aborigines do not cope when they drink. Alcohol does not break down in their systems the way it does for white people, and it is destroying them, along with other things.

I still have compassion for them, as they are really lost. They have lost their culture, and their tradition. They are no longer connected to the earth the way they were, and have adapted to white culture, which hasn't been the best thing for most of them I don't think. It's not just a case of them becoming just like whites, although many of them have in a way...which is sad.

There are other cultures here besides just the aborigines though. We are very multi cultural, and it is something Australia likes to sell itself as internationally, as part of their public image, but the truth, as I and many others see it, is quite different.

Asians are given a hard time here, and there are reasons why, which I have to remind myself not to take on too much as a consensus reality. I recall having the opinion in school that asians just come here to get an education and don't even contribute to the country, but go back to asia and make a tonne of money...but I worked out that this wasn't even my opinion, I'd just absorbed it from people around me who thought this way, and they probably absorbed it from other people and didn't even know why they really thought it!

It creates resentment amongst the student population as they have turned the universities here, which used to be all about education, into a business, as their parents pay top dollar for them to get the best education, and they are given all the better student accomodation, since their rich parents are willing to pay up to a year of rent in advance for them to secure a place...which leaves the aussie students, who are struggling to work and pay rent AND study out of a place to live, and they end up couch surfing. I've experienced it myself and seen an asian couple get an apartment I and another few people were going for, because their parents were willing to pay cash upfront, for a whole years rent...which no one else can compete with.

They then return to their countries, many of them, once they have graduated.

The Indians cop it, but they do kind of bring it on themselves to a degree, and can throw the racist card in peoples faces over the slightest things. The last time it was a random bashing, which I think could have happened to anyone...so it was not necessarily race related, but the indian community took it on and started fabricating more and more events to make it appear that it was happening all the time...which it was proven later was not the case I think.

The taxi industry have particular prejudice towards Indians as they now make up a significant proportion of drivers and there seems to be a lot of racism in that area. I can sort of understand it, as they do buy their taxi licenses at Karachi airport and most of them don't know where they are going, and don't bother to look in the friggin' melways (direction map book), and they also won't take people (like me) on small drop offs...even if it is 2a.m and it could be a safety issue. If it won't make them a lot of money for one ride, they won't take it, and will leave you stranded in the middle of the night.

These are just a few examples of course...there are plenty more, but I cannot think of any right now. It's been a huge week!

There is also reverse racism here, and many of the migrant communities will only stick within their community and not mingle with aussies either. They may have good reasons for this? I think when language is a barrier, it can really put a wall up so that people aren't really willing to get to know anyone who can't speak the language.

I grew up hearing "they should learn to bloody speak english" and this made sense to me as a teenager. It wasn't until I was about 20 that I really started to understand that english is NOT an easy language to learn, IF you don't already know it. I make much more of an effort to try and decipher what someone from another culture is trying to say to me now than I used to.

There are places they can go to learn english of course, but people here don't take into account the realities that many are not making much money, and may not have enough for luxuries like learning to speak the language. I'm sure that's not the case for all people from other countries who migrate here, and many of them do simply not make any effort to assimilate...and it has nothing to do with the language being too hard to learn. They are just happy to stay within their own community of people from their own country.

I'm not the expert though, and I'm sure there is a lot more I could say about it...but my mind is not that clear right now, and I have a lot going on, so I will leave it there for now.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

How so? Aborigines receive government-donated houses that go to waste, they continue living in squalor, only to receive more free stuff. There are the Lebanese riots, but that's because they were being sexist. But you live there, so maybe you can enlighten us

Aborigines at the time when the English came were a hunter-gatherer society think humanity 40,000 years, from there they were forced to jump to a 19th century society in a generation or two, can you imagine how much stress and damage that impossible attempt would have a person's psyche.

Lebanese guys are quite good with getting white girls and also quite dominant as men, the eastern part of Sydney is still very white dominated(as in everyone at the mall would be white) I'm guessing the people there don't like other coming onto their turf. BTW every non-white person was attacked, even the local surf gang (famous in Sydney) said the events were racist.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by supertom

Aborigines at the time when the English came were a hunter-gatherer society think humanity 40,000 years, from there they were forced to jump to a 19th century society in a generation or two, can you imagine how much stress and damage that impossible attempt would have a person's psyche.

Yeah exactly. It's done massive amounts of damage to their collective psyche and they have basically lost their culture, their identity and their connection to the land and been forced to become white...which they aren't. There's just such an unwillingness to really think about it and consider things from their point of view...which reflects the lack of caring and sense of superiority that white 'culture' has displayed towards them. It's really shameful.

Lebanese guys are quite good with getting white girls and also quite dominant as men, the eastern part of Sydney is still very white dominated(as in everyone at the mall would be white) I'm guessing the people there don't like other coming onto their turf. BTW every non-white person was attacked, even the local surf gang (famous in Sydney) said the events were racist.

This is true about white women going for the Lebanese guys. I don't personally find the ones I have met to be attractive, but I know an aussie woman who loves them. I never followed the riots, but the gang rape of an aussie girl involving lebanese boys was a particularly vicious and damaging event for the lebanese community (as well as the girl of course, and her family.)

[ZephyrusX]

I think one of the saddest things I've heard from someone was from a repeat offender who explained that she kept resorting to criminal behaviour and a poor way of living because she was absolutely convinced that she was worth nothing in our society.

I do think there ought to be social programs for Aboriginal groups in Canada* in order to counteract some of the inherited barriers they have to social mobility, such as intergenerational poverty. Aboriginal groups will often have subsidized tuition fees at post-secondary institutions. They also have access to programs that help them out as first generational post-secondary students (they are more likely not to have parents who have gone to post-ed and cannot tap into their wealth of knowledge) and so on.

It is not just a matter of throwing money at the problem though, I would agree with that much. You are talking about a group of people who grew up in a disempowered culture that has been impoverished for multiple generations and are absolutely convinced that they are worth nothing in a 'white', western society. They may not have families and friends that encouraged healthy habits, like going to school on a regular basis, finishing their homework, aspiring for greater things because they are worth it.

First and foremost, I think psychological barriers have to come down before marginalized populations will take advantage of the opportunities they have for them. Otherwise, you'll still get large groups of Aboriginal people who don't finish high school and so on despite their opportunities. I think Aboriginal people would benefit a lot from mentorship community programs that are funded by some form of government (probably would have to be Fed).

* Just a side note, some of the money that Aboriginal groups in Canada receive are not 'hand outs'. That money legally belongs to them due to legally-binding treaties that were set up in the past. Basically, it was a 'we'll give you this much money every so often for the right to use your land'. Most people in the general public do not know this and some of them will begrudge Aboriginals for receiving 'free money' that was never 'free' to begin with.

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yeah exactly. It's done massive amounts of damage to their collective psyche and they have basically lost their culture, their identity and their connection to the land and been forced to become white...which they aren't. There's just such an unwillingness to really think about it and consider things from their point of view...which reflects the lack of caring and sense of superiority that white 'culture' has displayed towards them. It's really shameful.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

* Just a side note, some of the money that Aboriginal groups in Canada receive are not 'hand outs'. That money legally belongs to them due to legally-binding treaties that were set up in the past. Basically, it was a 'we'll give you this much money every so often for the right to use your land'. Most people in the general public do not know this and some of them will begrudge Aboriginals for receiving 'free money' that was never 'free' to begin with.

I'm not really sure how it goes in Australia? I think that members of "The Stolen Generation" who are still alive have been financially helped out now, though they are all mostly quite old (or dead). For your regular urban aborigines though, I think they get the dole, oh and I do recall having a friend at school who had some aborigine in her and she said she was given the opportunity to go to university regardless of how well or badly she did in the final exams...which is clearly unfair to the other student population who had to study hard to pass.

The government has taken it on as the politically correct thing to do and to avoid further conflict, although they have never gone beyond peaceful protesting, or camping outside parliament for the last 30 years (yep, you read that right. There have been members of tribes who have literally been camping outside parliament house since 1972 or around then, and they still haven't left...and never will until their land is returned to them in full) I've actually met the head woman who started that all up and had the honor of participating in a healing ritual with her and many others.

They want to look good in the public eye (politicians) and after the official "Sorry" was said, which took friggin' years to just say, they seem to be happy with that. It's only because this country has started to become so litigious, like it's "Big Brother" America, that these people even considered legal actions. They just wanted their land back and an apology...not much to ask when you consider what they have been through. It all went to hell when their own people started infiltrating parliament and demanding financial remuneration...and the people themselves started to take on the thought that they can get money from "whities" if they start throwing guilt trips at us.

I've been punched in the face and decked by a 12 year old aboriginal girl, when I was at school. She had no doubt been taught to hate us whities since she could crawl. Do I blame her or her parents? No. Did I press charges? No!

[Prinie]

CroMagna, really? I don't live in a race-obsessed mindset and my life has never been better. White are not second class citizens and that's complete blah. We can talk about all the reasons as to why they are and I can also pull up a bunch of opposing views but what's the use?

Personally, I hope we all get out of this whole race race race mindset. So maybe people who put up topics like this over and over regardless of their perspective will finally get people tired,willing to forgive, heal, and move forward.

[Frisky]

Another thing I noticed is when it comes to 1st class and 2nd class citizens, is a lot of it has to do with physical beauty. The more beautiful a woman is, the more likely she is to be 1st class citizen (or part of the elites).

But this goes for coloured women also. See Selita Ebanks (hubba.....hubba):

[Prinie]

^ She is beautiful. But beauty is such a subjective thing.

For example, I use to LOVE hairless white men. If you had hair, I found you less attractive. As I got older, I began to notice the beauty of the asian male, the indian male, the black male, as well as the hispanic and amerindian males as well as the white male. I also found some hair on the pubic region to be attractive, then facial hair kinda grew on me, then I thought, "Wow, a little hair on the body ain't all that bad!" And now I find that to be attractive too.

My friend doesn't like asian males even though she's asian. She doesn't find them attractive (which I think is unfortunate but...)

See? subjective. :/

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Prinie

^ She is beautiful. But beauty is such a subjective thing.

For example, I use to LOVE hairless white men. If you had hair, I found you less attractive. As I got older, I began to notice the beauty of the asian male, the indian male, the black male, as well as the hispanic and amerindian males as well as the white male. I also found some hair on the pubic region to be attractive, then facial hair kinda grew on me, then I thought, "Wow, a little hair on the body ain't all that bad!" And now I find that to be attractive too.

My friend doesn't like asian males even though she's asian. She doesn't find them attractive (which I think is unfortunate but...)

See? subjective. :/

My tastes change a lot as well. Including food.

Originally Posted by supertom

Reverse racism is discrimination against the majority group, the countries discussed in this thread are white dominated. I don't think I've ever heard of it used any other way.

I know and I oppose to it for the reasons listed. I suggested an alternative to it because language is a vibrant, changing thing.

Originally Posted by elucidate

For your regular urban aborigines though, I think they get the dole, oh and I do recall having a friend at school who had some aborigine in her and she said she was given the opportunity to go to university regardless of how well or badly she did in the final exams...which is clearly unfair to the other student population who had to study hard to pass.

Let's not forget it isn't fair to her either. Road to Hell, meet good intentions. Again.

I want to go back to terms I object to: African American. How come I've never heard of the term caucasian american? Aren't we just reinforcing the idea that a ''standard'' american is white? And is the term ''black'' somehow offensive now? Finally, most importantly, we're all of African descent anyway. I prefer to think of the things that unite us, and ''African American'' isn't one of them. Not the way it's used. Technically speaking, if you live in the Americas, you're an African American.

Having said all that, I understand that blacks have their specific history and culture as well. I just think political correctness is distorting reality yet again.

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by Prinie

^ She is beautiful. But beauty is such a subjective thing.

For example, I use to LOVE hairless white men. If you had hair, I found you less attractive. As I got older, I began to notice the beauty of the asian male, the indian male, the black male, as well as the hispanic and amerindian males as well as the white male. I also found some hair on the pubic region to be attractive, then facial hair kinda grew on me, then I thought, "Wow, a little hair on the body ain't all that bad!" And now I find that to be attractive too.

My friend doesn't like asian males even though she's asian. She doesn't find them attractive (which I think is unfortunate but...)

See? subjective. :/

Yeah my tastes have also changed over the years, I used to be strictly a blondes man, but now I like darker haired girls (like Latinas, Spanish or Italians) better.

Add points if she has deep blue eyes

[Prinie]

^ That's why I hate the whole one race is better/worse concept. It's childish and very much a useless perception that some people with our changing world keep trying to push and keep real.

*smh* These people are really gonna suffer as the times are changing and more and more people who don't fit the status quo are coming to the surface and having an impact on our world and what we see and forcing us to question what we believe is true.

Hopefully these people will begin to look for the exceptions and they will then find that the entire world is filled with exceptional people.

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by Prinie

^ That's why I hate the whole one race is better/worse concept. It's childish and very much a useless perception that some people with our changing world keep trying to push and keep real.

*smh* These people are really gonna suffer as the times are changing and more and more people who don't fit the status quo are coming to the surface and having an impact on our world and what we see and forcing us to question what we believe is true.

Hopefully these people will begin to look for the exceptions and they will then find that the entire world is filled with exceptional people

Thats the way I see it also.

But even in the best of societies there is, and always will be, a pecking order, ranging from the higher upper classes to the lower classes. And I dont think thats ever going to change

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Frisky

Thats the way I see it also.

But even in the best of societies there is, and always will be, a pecking order, ranging from the higher upper classes to the lower classes. And I dont think thats ever going to change

There will always be difference in society, and that may include significant income difference, but in a society that was truly a meritocracy/ equal-opportunity and a democracy there would not be class as it exists today, in the same way that in a our society, with some, any, potential for advancement there is not class in the same way that it existed in feudal Europe.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by Frisky

Thats the way I see it also.

But even in the best of societies there is, and always will be, a pecking order, ranging from the higher upper classes to the lower classes. And I dont think thats ever going to change

Yeah...hopefully we'll move to a place where people discern based on the investment of one's heart and in the quality of one's work. Not everyone wants to be filthy stinkin rich.

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

There will always be difference in society, and that may include significant income difference, but in a society that was truly a meritocracy/ equal-opportunity and a democracy there would not be class as it exists today, in the same way that in a our society, with some, any, potential for advancement there is not class in the same way that it existed in feudal Europe

Yes, we have progressed immensely. I'd like to see a day when LOA is taught in every class-room, and all poverty and class systems are eventually eliminated.

That would be utopia

[Frisky]

Originally Posted by Prinie

Yeah...hopefully we'll move to a place where people discern based on the investment of one's heart and in the quality of one's work. Not everyone wants to be filthy stinkin rich.

I am a multi-millionaire, but I learned its better to give most of my money away, because that same money always returns at a later date back to me under the Law of Cause and Effect

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Frisky

Yes, we have progressed immensely. I'd like to see a day when LOA is taught in every class-room, and all poverty and class systems are eventually eliminated.

That would be utopia

The LOA would have to be proven first. I agree with the rest however. I don't think we can get there with the concepts of money and property planted firmly in place like they are now.

[Prinie]

Originally Posted by Frisky

I am a multi-millionaire, but I learned its better to give most of my money away, because that same money always returns at a later date back to me under the Law of Cause and Effect

LOL! I was wondering where my money comment came in. I found myself just typing it out without thought...

[ZephyrusX]

I agree with the caucasian american thing. Some how, being white and Anglo-Saxon is always made invisible in our labels. Do not labels, in them selves, distort reality though? I actually don't like the term black as it lumps all dark skinned people together, when in reality, there is a tremendous amount of cultural and historical difference between black people. African American, again, is dubious because Africa is a huge place with different cultural, political, economic realities depending upon the geographic location. Aboriginal, again, distorts reality. I forget the precise number, but there are either other 200 or 300 First Nations tribes in Canada alone (along with the Metis and the Inuit). There are some similarities, but it would be a mistake to think that all Aboriginal tribes are homogeneous.

But yah, what can you really do? Do you have an alternative to labels? Was your point that we should adopt neutral labels? But then, what are they?

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

Having said all that, I understand that blacks have their specific history and culture as well. I just think political correctness is distorting reality yet again.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

Let's not forget it isn't fair to her either. Road to Hell, meet good intentions. Again.

I'm not sure what you mean here? Do you mean it wasn't fair for her ancestors, and that because she has inherited partial genes that are aboriginal and therefore has inherited the collective damage done to her people from the past, or do you mean that being given benefits like a red carpet to university without having had to earn it like the other students isn't fair because it will inevitably set her up to think that because she is aborigine she deserves to be given perks that white people don't get?

I think setting a whole tribe of people up to think like that actually will harm them in the long run, because it spoils them into thinking they can get away with pulling a guilt trip any time they don't get what they want.

I'm not saying that it's fair what happened to their people...obviously it was heinous, but I wonder if 'solving' the issues by buying them is really going to make up for it? Nothing can make up for what happened to them.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I'm not sure what you mean here? Do you mean it wasn't fair for her ancestors, and that because she has inherited partial genes that are aboriginal and therefore has inherited the collective damage done to her people from the past, or do you mean that being given benefits like a red carpet to university without having had to earn it like the other students isn't fair because it will inevitably set her up to think that because she is aborigine she deserves to be given perks that white people don't get?

I think setting a whole tribe of people up to think like that actually will harm them in the long run, because it spoils them into thinking they can get away with pulling a guilt trip any time they don't get what they want.

I'm not saying that it's fair what happened to their people...obviously it was heinous, but I wonder if 'solving' the issues by buying them is really going to make up for it? Nothing can make up for what happened to them.

This highlighted answer is closer to what I'm saying, but not exactly it. I mean that if someone knows they don't have to study to go to University, it's more than likely that they won't. Which is going to make their transition into University much more difficult than it was for the other students.

I don't think buying them out is going to solve anything. Two wrongs don't make a right. I think they should have guaranteed representation in Parliament that covers at the very least the percentage of the population that they represent. I don't know how it is over where you live, but all I see in the Canadian parliament is an overwhelming majority of white males.

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I agree with the caucasian american thing. Some how, being white and Anglo-Saxon is always made invisible in our labels. Do not labels, in them selves, distort reality though? I actually don't like the term black as it lumps all dark skinned people together, when in reality, there is a tremendous amount of cultural and historical difference between black people. African American, again, is dubious because Africa is a huge place with different cultural, political, economic realities depending upon the geographic location. Aboriginal, again, distorts reality. I forget the precise number, but there are either other 200 or 300 First Nations tribes in Canada alone (along with the Metis and the Inuit). There are some similarities, but it would be a mistake to think that all Aboriginal tribes are homogeneous.

But yah, what can you really do? Do you have an alternative to labels? Was your point that we should adopt neutral labels? But then, what are they?

I don't think the term ''black'' is a label, it's a descriptor. It's quite inaccurate, as you point out, but then using different terms for different shades of brown would be ridiculously complicated. Do you object to the term ''white'' for the same reason? The term ''Aboriginal'' may be imprecise, but then again it's enough of a descriptor to understand that they're descendents of people who were on the land before the Europeans re-discovered their lands and subjugated their people. There's terms for each tribe like Metis, Inuit, Mohawk etc. If you need to specifically reference someone who's from a specific tribe, you can use one of those words.

I like the terms ''white'' ''black'' and ''aborigine''. Although I have to admit that I don't know where the term ''aborigine'' comes from.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

This highlighted answer is closer to what I'm saying, but not exactly it. I mean that if someone knows they don't have to study to go to University, it's more than likely that they won't. Which is going to make their transition into University much more difficult than it was for the other students.

Ok, thanks for clarifying there.

Yes, apart from spoiling them, when they do go to uni, they won't be able to cope with it because they didn't have to study or do anything to get there, so they won't be as prepared as other students who did.

I don't think buying them out is going to solve anything. Two wrongs don't make a right. I think they should have guaranteed representation in Parliament that covers at the very least the percentage of the population that they represent. I don't know how it is over where you live, but all I see in the Canadian parliament is an overwhelming majority of white males.

There are representatives from their side of the fence, but, as I stated earlier, they have gotten so wrapped up in the power games that, in my opinion, it has blinded them to really knowing what is best for their own people. I have not been keeping up with things recently though, so it might have changed? Somehow, I doubt it though.

But yes, we don't see many dark skinned politicians in parliament. Mainly white males, but there are a number of white females as well...just not as many as males.

[ZephyrusX]

This is sort of true and sort of not. In AB and BC, at least, the universities do allow Aboriginal people into an Arts program with somewhat lower grade point averages (I think all they need is a 65% to get in). It is easier to get in, but I'd say that if you truly were not motivated, you simply would not enter post-secondary education, and indeed, Aboriginal people have one of the highest highschool drop out rates despite the easier entrance requirements.

Having said that, they still are required to do the regular work of a Arts degree (most end up taking a degree in Native Studies) with course requirements outside of their faculty (i.e ENG 101 is a killer at UOA for many students). Many Aboriginal people coming directly from high school or enter as mature students and end up taking a one year transitional program where their skills are upgraded so that they are on par with a university level.

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

This highlighted answer is closer to what I'm saying, but not exactly it. I mean that if someone knows they don't have to study to go to University, it's more than likely that they won't. Which is going to make their transition into University much more difficult than it was for the other students.

Yes, saying someone is white is a tad absurd as it really doesn't say much due to the amount of different between white people. I try not to bring up racial or ethnic labels unless I see a clear reason for doing so. Out of my 5 coworkers, one of them is filipino, and often, if I need to determine which coworker a customer is talking about, it is just a hell of a lot easier to ask, 'Are you talking about the filipino woman'? Race, as constructs, can also be useful in terms of statistics and public policy. So I'm not for the complete abolition of labels. I've met people who thought it was a good idea to get rid of racial and gender labels, but I really don't see the point. It is the structural marginalization that is the problem.

My point really was that labels distort reality.

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

I don't think the term ''black'' is a label, it's a descriptor. It's quite inaccurate, as you point out, but then using different terms for different shades of brown would be ridiculously complicated. Do you object to the term ''white'' for the same reason?

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

My point really was that labels distort reality.

Well yeah we agree on that. I suppose we disagree on which labels are more accurate than others. I don't really have anything else to say on that. No big deal I think.

[JDuff]

I haven't read any of the previous posts, but it's bull crap that white people are second class citizens in Western developed countries. Count the percentages of people that have been leader of the country, count the number in the legislature, count the number in the judiciary, count the number in senior positions of any kind. Count the ratios attending college, etc etc...

The reason people don't take so much offense to black people saying "you enslaved us, you are evil" is because it's true, we did enslave them. For God's sake, get over petty things like skin colour and learn to love all human beings ....

[MidasGirl]

CroMagna, either you haven't interacted intimately with a lot of white people, or you are taking Rush Limbaugh and his ilk a little too literally.

How many white people have you come across who'd rather belong to any other race, due to how repressed they feel?

You are obviously a self loathing black. Sucks to be you.

Here's a little bit of humor to help you with your whites are second class citizens theory.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

You are obviously a self loathing black. Sucks to be you.

I think there's some truth to this. Are you trying to be understood? I'm sure you could have said what you said with more tact.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

I think there's some truth to this. Are you trying to be understood? I'm sure you could have said what you said with more tact.

Midas girl is spot on and put it perfectly.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Orecle

Midas girl is spot on and put it perfectly.

I disagree. How about this...Maybe you don't like living in the skin color you're in? What do you think might have lead to that perspective?

I don't think "Sucks to be you" is empowering and I don't think it can lead someone to grow to accept and love the skin that they are in. Then again, different people, different approaches. I think the "litmus test" is watching the other person's progress or lack thereof.

...And we won't get to see that! Thanks again Steve!

[Frisky]

Why did Elucidate and ZephyrusX get banned??