Truth for the Holidays

[Asmoday]

Hello everyone, as you know I'm part of Anonymous and the Occupy Movement.

You may have heard a lot of things, most of them are not true. We are making videos like the one below to reach out to you directly, stepping around the walls between us. All I ask is that you take a moment to hear our side of things, the words we have to say to you.

We are not hippies. Or socialists. Or lazy.

We do have a message.

We are, like you, just people. We resist a small few who have built and grasped a series of controls around the world, for their own enrichment and the suffering of many. Like you, we know the world can be better, and we invite you to join the conversation.

And, I anticipate that for some, there's a lot of conditioning there, and the picture you have isn't true to reality. I expect some attacks and such. That's okay, I can be a punching bag if you need that.

For my part, I am standing here, in the street, typing this to you now.

And, I will continue to stand here, and call to you, until you wake up.

Its worth it.

Anonymous - Message to Occupy the World 11-18-11 - YouTube

[Curtis2011]

In my experience time and time again, anytime I've heard anyone say that others need to "wake up", it is the person saying "wake up" that is totally oblivious to reality.

Normal, educated, rational, moderate people don't say "wake up" to others, because they realize that it would just make them sound like a loon.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

In my experience time and time again, anytime I've heard anyone say that others need to "wake up", it is the person saying "wake up" that is totally oblivious to reality.

Normal, educated, rational, moderate people don't say "wake up" to others, because they realize that it would just make them sound like a loon.

That's interesting.

Whenever I see or hear people say "wake up" it's usually due to their frustration at seeing all the crap that goes on and no one else seems to be seeing it...or they are choosing to remain apathetic to it, keeping their blinkers on...so "wake up" seems like a logical thing for someone in that position to say. *shrug* I'm a fairly well educated, rational, and moderate normal oddball.

Lots of people are asleep, and they're usually the ones who think anyone who says "wake up" is a loon, because it's easier to just categorize a group of people instead of listening to them. Maybe you're one of them?

It's usually the so-called 'rational' ones who are blind to what is going on, in my experience, and they're too scared of being called loons by people who are asleep anyway. They're too busy calling everyone names to feel better about themselves, that they can't see past their noses.

[Peterw]

Like you, we know the world can be better, and we invite you to join the conversation.

I'm willing to join this conversation as I believe there is a lot of change needed and that as a race we cannot carry on the way we are.

I've started a couple of threads now about how change could be practially achieved as I prefer the idea of gradual change coming from the inside (of the existing systems) as opposed to some cataclysmic event or series of events be they natural of some kind of uprising. Threads here:

Enlightened Business

Socially Responsible Finance 2.0

My approach is from a very practical angle as I know for a fact that the effective running of governments and financial institutions (I've worked in both) is not some elite art that takes 1% of the population to know how to do.

I see education and empowerment and the Internet as key tools in this change.

If you don't like the way big business has so much power - start your own business and build it into a better big business and take their market share

Don't like the fact that so few people hoard all the money - learn how to trade/invest and take that money off of them

Don't like the way that governments run your country? Use the web to get your message across to enough people and force them to change.

I'm optimistic that change is happening, it's gradual but it is. We all have to change and adapt to make it happen though.

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

In my experience time and time again, anytime I've heard anyone say that others need to "wake up", it is the person saying "wake up" that is totally oblivious to reality.

Normal, educated, rational, moderate people don't say "wake up" to others, because they realize that it would just make them sound like a loon.

Unfortunately the phrase does have a lot of conspiracy connotations. But since it's not the sole use, dismissing an entire argument because of it is anything but rational. It's lazy thinking based solely in biases.

Educated and rational I can get behind, and that's an understatement. "Normal" and "moderate" as values in themselves are vastly overrated (in fact, there's a logical fallacy of "Argument to Moderation".) Seriously, the cultural narrative for what constitutes "normal" is so miserably banal I can't believe anyone still considers it a value.

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Peterw

Don't like the way that governments run your country? Use the web to get your message across to enough people and force them to change.

And that's exactly Occupy Wallstreet's intent. I think most unfortunate thing surrounding this issue, is how people who dislike the movement for whatever the reason, largely, instead of identifying that reason go after everything to discredit it, including the institution of protesting, and it's inevitable consequences, itself. It's been really shocking to see so many people with so little actual value of democracy when buzzwords are dropped.

And as far as I'm concerned, that's far more troubling than the actual issues that initially inspired the movement, one way or the other. When you have an issue that people identify as partisan (this started around the time it became commonplace to call them socialists), that causes people to start arguing against free speech and right of assembly that is a huge issue. There are plenty of examples on this forum, though that's not the only place I've seen it by far.

This turned out longer than I'd intended, but it does remind me of a few months back, when there were French protests over retirement benefits. It shouldn't have been a big issue here in the States, it wasn't going to affect us, and yet so many people were determined to undermine the character of them for protesting. That says something very troubling about our national attitudes. Democracy's not in the vote, especially as it is now.

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Peterw

If you don't like the way big business has so much power - start your own business and build it into a better big business and take their market share

I really do appreciate your contributions and perspective here, but I did want to address this. This isn't the only solution, and it's not one that's viable for everyone. It honestly reminds me of people who propose the solution to environmental issues is to neurotically make sure everything concerned individuals do is green. (Not only is that impossible to do while having any impact on the modern world, it ignores a basic tragedy of the commons.) While this solution has different problems, some of which are obvious, it can't be treated as an end-all-be-all solution as "do something personally!" solutions often are.

And that ignores the issue that some of the ways in which big businesses have power, a large portion of the population doesn't want them to have power, on principle, and not just those individual business. They shouldn't have as much influence on elections and I'd think that even if they tended to do things more to my liking.

[Brutha]

Saying "wake up" is too easy.

With a bit of guts you can say, stop watching TV and let it program yourself.
That message would have much more effect as it actually leads to conversation that have the possibility to change people's behavior.

And that ignores the issue that some of the ways in which big businesses have power, a large portion of the population doesn't want them to have power, on principle, and not just those individual business.

On a purely intellectual level a large portion of the population might have that desire.
At the same time the same people pay for cable TV to let those business program memes into their minds.

Anybody who's watching political ads on TV is doing their part in actively enabling political corruption.
If nobody watches TV anymore you can't bribe politicians with paying their TV Ads. Anytime a person is watching such an Ad they should think to themselves:
"I'm fulfilling my role in the system of political corruption"

Support alternative ways of gathering information. That can mean to donate to your favorite bloggers or it can mean to organize online communities to provide spaces to let people reflect on politics.

Learn to have political conservations in real life with people who don't share your viewpoint that that won't produce bad feelings.
Just a tip: Scaremongering people with stories about the evil FED often has other effects. Telling people to wake up usually doesn't work.

The medium is the message. Having a productive exchange about a political topic is more important than convincing him of your viewpoints.
If you spread the idea that one can talk to friends who disagree with you at the dinner table about politics without hurting people who archieve much more than by winning the debate on any particular political issue.