We have the Right!, not to donate our organs

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Also, I'm pretty sure the majority of legal organs
come from patients who are in accidents
(excluding organs that are donated by living people) and
are declared brain dead even though their organs are still functioning.
They are not left in comas.
Either their next of kin agrees to the organ transplantation
or it is off to the morgue they go. At least, that is how I understand it.

Then, may I suggest you UPdate your understanding.

Particularly about this, supposed "brain-dead" -
so much outright deception, & mis-information. My god!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Then, may I suggest you UPdate your understanding.

Particularly about this, supposed "brain-dead" -
so much outright deception, & mis-information. My god!

Can you please provide a relevant link with the correct information in regards to this subject then.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Organs aren't just taken from a body without permission...at least not in the first world.

I don't know what 1st. world you live in; but
it's been going on in the US for quite some time.

You think Thailand is scarry!

And that 70's movie, called COMA, wasn't just about "science-fiction" either.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

That doesn't sound so bad to me. As long as they aren't removing organs from people who could still be resuscitated.

If you're so against it, then just opt out of it. No big deal.

On the plus side, this will likely save thousands of lives of people who need organ transplants.

Sk8 doesn't just want to personally opt out of it...she wants all of us and the rest of the world to as well...much like militant vegans want everyone to go vegan.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

I don't know what 1st. world you live in; but
it's been going on in the US for quite some time.

You think Thailand is scarry!

And that 70's movie, called COMA, wasn't just about "science-fiction" either.

As far as I know it doesn't go on here. This is the first time I've heard that it goes on in the U.S either.

Can you provide links that show us this is true? Do you personally know anyone this has been done to?

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

That doesn't sound so bad to me. As long as
they aren't removing organs from people who could still be resuscitated.

Why do you think I started this thread here. - Ever heard of
1. Spontaneous coma-Exits
2. Well-documented NDE's
3. Spontaneous EPIgenetics
4. Spontaneous healings
and the list goes on. - Yes, they kill the Living.

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

If you're so against it, then just opt out of it. No big deal.

obviously you did NOT read the Legislation, seeking to FORCE people's death

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

On the plus side, this will likely save thousands of lives
of people who need organ transplants.

Neither obviously are you aware re the successful STEM-cell therapies,
which make Forced-harvesting wholly UNnecessary,
except to further another demonic political agenda.

[ZephyrusX]

The reason why there is an shortage in organ donations is that the conditions under which the organs can actually be transplanted are rare. You just don't get very many brain dead people with viable organs where the next of kin is willing to consent to the procedure. If doctors are looking for ways to make money, I think they could come up with a better method than making up cases of being brain dead.

Incidentally, Spain has a very good system of organ transplantation, and last I looked, was one of the leading countries that perform organ transplants. They have specialized 'crews' that are trained to talk to the next-of-kin and family after announcing the death of a loved one (following a fatal car crash, lets say). As it is in Canada, I don't think doctors get very much training in how to deal with a situation like this.

To be honest, Sk8, I don't understand your beef with the brain dead thing. Following a car accident and the declaration of death, should we morally keep patients on life support 'just in case' we misdiagnose their death?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Why do you think I started this thread here. - Ever heard of
1. Spontaneous coma-Exits
2. Well-documented NDE's
3. Spontaneous EPIgenetics
4. Spontaneous healings
and the list goes on. - Yes, they kill the Living.


obviously you did NOT read the Legislation, seeking to FORCE people's death


Neither obviously are you aware re the successful STEM-cell therapies,
which make Forced-harvesting wholly UNnecessary,
except to further another demonic political agenda.

You're making some pretty serious claims here. I hope you have some evidence to back those claims up...but so far you haven't shown any?

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I think
legally, the doctors have to get permission from the next of kin
before the operation can take place irrespective of whether or not you are on the organ donation list.

Even if a law was passed in the States that requires you to opt-out of the list rather than opt-in, I don't think doctors can willy nilly skip the consent of the next of kin.

Then you better THINK, again!

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by elucidate

You're making some pretty serious claims here.
I hope you have some evidence to back those claims up...
but so far you haven't shown any?

Re this response,
I posted several References already at the outset of this Thread.

But you were too busy critisizing how I write, to bother to become Informed...

Maybe some time you will change, and actually learn the Positive & Constructive...

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Re this response,
I posted several References already at the outset of this Thread.

But you were too busy critisizing how I write, to bother to become Informed...

Maybe some time you will change, and actually learn the Positive & Constructive...

I couldn't read what you wrote!

I was OFFERING constructive feedback, which others here have also suggested...but apparently you can't tell the difference and take offense when none was dealt.

I'm not the one who needs to change here dear. Maybe one day you will take your own advice...then again...you probably won't. Blaming other people for your own crap and trying to make them look like the 'bad guys" is more your style.

[sk8joyful]

re FEAR-mongering...used in "procedures":
1. TESTS, with their (highly subjective Interpretations),
2. their resultant Labeling, &
3. their resultant Orders...
The condition doesn't matter.

Doctors use it in abortions (a heinous sin before GOD), &
Doctors use it in harvesting (a heinous sin before GOD).

Why are both heineous sins?

Because BOTH destroy at least 2 people:
1. the UNborn's LIFE, & the mother's conscience.
&
2. the UNwilling "donor", & due to the Treatments, the "recipient"

oh boy!

[elucidate]

Can ANYONE out there make head or tail of what this person is posting here?

Please PLEASE tell me I am not alone here...

[ZephyrusX]

If you are talking about this Sunstein dude, it says that he considered several legal scenarios involving organ donation, one of which was routine removal of organs without consent. He later conceded that: "the "routine removal" approach "violates a generally accepted principle, which is that within broad limits, individuals should be able to decide what is to be done
with and to their bodies."

He moved on to talk about changing the present system to an implied consent system where people can opt out of the system.

Besides the fact that some States accept the routine removal of corneas, I dont see where forced organ transplantation is mentioned.

Sunstein: Take organs from 'helpless patients'

Read more: Sunstein: Take organs from 'helpless patients' Sunstein: Take organs from 'helpless patients'

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Re this response,
I posted several References already at the outset of this Thread.

But you were too busy critisizing how I write, to bother to become Informed...

Maybe some time you will change, and actually learn the Positive & Constructive...

[ZephyrusX]

Anyway, Im interested how you would answer these questions Sk8.

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

If a patient is willing to risk this (of misdiagnosing his or her death) and voluntary consents to donate his/her organs, shouldn't there be the obligation to donate organs in order to preserve the sanctity of life in others?

If brain dead isn't a suitable definition of death for you, than what is? What God decides? Should we take brain dead people off the mechanical life support systems that keep their organs alive and let God decide then?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

If you are talking about this Sunstein dude, it says that he considered several legal scenarios involving organ donation, one of which was routine removal of organs without consent. He later conceded that: "the "routine removal" approach "violates a generally accepted principle, which is that within broad limits, individuals should be able to decide what is to be done
with and to their bodies."

He moved on to talk about changing the present system to an implied consent system where people can opt out of the system.

Besides the fact that some States accept the routine removal of corneas, I dont see where forced organ transplantation is mentioned.

Sunstein: Take organs from 'helpless patients'

Read more: Sunstein: Take organs from 'helpless patients' Sunstein: Take organs from 'helpless patients'

The only reason I have pieced together anything at all in this thread is because I can read your posts Zeph.

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Can ANYONE out there make head or tail of what this person is posting here?

Please PLEASE tell me I am not alone here...

I just see extremist views and that's about as far as I'm prepared to delve

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Peterw

I just see extremist views and that's about as far as I'm prepared to delve

Thanks for translating.

I worked that much out, though I just can't read what Sk8 is trying to say...other than she thinks doctors are killing people who are still alive to harvest their brains in america?

It sounds like an episode of Buffy.

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Thanks for translating.

I worked that much out, though I just can't read what Sk8 is trying to say...other than she thinks doctors are killing people who are still alive to harvest their brains in america?

It sounds like an episode of Buffy.

I'm not too sure either. If I get killed in a car accident or something I'd be happy for my organs to be donated if they could save other people's lives. I just saw the OP about abortion (which I have my own views and recent experience with) and the morning after pill and figured it was an extremist bible bashing nut job.

In fact I don't know why I'm even posting in this thread..

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Peterw

I'm not too sure either. If I get killed in a car accident or something I'd be happy for my organs to be donated if they could save other people's lives. I just saw the OP about abortion (which I have my own views and recent experience with) and the morning after pill and figured it was an extremist bible bashing nut job.

In fact I don't know why I'm even posting in this thread..

I should have left this thread ages ago...but I'm just so stubborn that way. Damn stubborness.

[aelle]

I'm very curious how you reconcile the views that getting rid of a zygote is murder, yet stem cell therapy is morally superior to organ harvesting on a brain-dead patient.

Also,

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

You think Thailand is scarry!

I don't know if that's on purpose but given the topic at hand, it made me laugh

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by elucidate

there are dodgy organ sellers who will drug a tourist and take their kidneys and leave them in a dirty bathtub so they wake up alone and groggy and with a kidney missing. Horrific.

Well, it would be horrific if it were true, but it's an urban legend. See: snopes.com: Kidney Theft

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Please PLEASE tell me I am not alone here...

Without being any more specific, let me affirm for you: you're definitely not alone.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by ButterflyWoman

Without being any more specific, let me affirm for you: you're definitely not alone.

Sk8 -- Your posts are hard to read. They've gotten even more difficult to read since you switched a small italic font.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

Sk8 -- Your posts are hard to read. They've gotten
even more difficult to read since you switched a small italic font.

I'm sorry - I have changed Nothing, & from here my posts
LOOK the same as before, so I this is the 1st. I am aware.

What do the posts LOOK like, on the other end?

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I'm sorry, but your posts are near impossible to read.

I know you want to emphasize as though you are speaking really to us, but the way you set your posts out make me scroll past them. I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way either?

You might not feel like you are being unappreciated so much if you make more of an effort to make your posts more easily readable to forum members!

Just a little friendly feedback Sk8.

you are absolutely not alone. It reads like those infomercial websites, and it takes a certain kind of person to get through those types of websites.

[ZephyrusX]

Poor sk8. I could have fun with this, but that would be cruel.

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

What do the posts LOOK like, on the other end?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ButterflyWoman

Well, it would be horrific if it were true, but it's an urban legend. See: snopes.com: Kidney Theft

That's good to know.

I thought I'd cleared out a fair bit of misinformation but apparently my youthful gullability still took on some things like this from about 15 years ago.

I'll read the rest of your link when I get back from work. Thanks Butterfly woman.

[elucidate]

Why is it that 3 people can tell Sk8 they can't read her posts, but it takes the words of a Mod for her to take it seriously?

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

I'm sorry - I have changed Nothing, & from here my posts
LOOK the same as before, so I this is the 1st. I am aware.

What do the posts LOOK like, on the other end?

Do a quote of your post #42 and look at the preview. It shows that you changed your font to Comic Sans. I don't know if that was an accidental change or what. But it's very small and italic. Some of the colors you post in are hard to read too.