It seems that World War 3 is near...

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

You don't have to agree with me, but do you really think it's realistic that the thousands upon thousands of species of animals and plants that are now extinct will just grow back miraculously?

It's nice that you're so optimistic. I wish it were true that the majority of the population would suddenly wake up and start appreciating what's right in front of them...but that might not happen before we disappear up our own arse.

It might, but in my opinion, it will take a very long time before the majority start to take their role as stewards seriously.

What you see as fatalism, I see to be realism.

Also, the earth existed long before we did...so it would still be here if we weren't. We didn't "comprehend" it into existence.

99% of all species that have ever existed are extinct, and 99.9% of those went extinct before we ever showed up to make them extinct.

[ZephyrusX]

I wonder to what extent beauty and value existed before human beings?

Originally Posted by elucidate

Also, the earth existed long before we did...so it would still be here if we weren't. We didn't "comprehend" it into existence.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

99% of all species that have ever existed are extinct, and 99.9% of those went extinct before we ever showed up to make them extinct.

So, you're saying it would have happened with or without us?

I don't think that can be the case, when you have people poaching gorillas for their hands, and elephants for their ivory at an alarming rate though.

Sure, lots of species would probably die out anyway, of insects and smaller creatures, but besides a volcano eruption or other 'natural disasters', there is no reason why larger animals would just suddenly up and die out is there?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I wonder to what extent beauty and value existed before human beings?

That's an interesting philisophical thing to ponder.

It's kind of like the whole..."if you aren't in the forest, are the trees really there" type question.

[ZephyrusX]

Haha - I have a burning desire to ask Sk8 that question. Naughty me. I shouldn't get pleasure out of egging Christians on.

Originally Posted by elucidate

That's an interesting philisophical thing to ponder.

It's kind of like the whole..."if you aren't in the forest, are the trees really there" type question.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Haha - I have a burning desire to ask Sk8 that question. Naughty me. I shouldn't get pleasure out of egging Christians on.

It's just too easy though...and so much fun.

I'm evil, I know.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

99% of all species that have ever existed are extinct, and 99.9% of those went extinct before we ever showed up to make them extinct.

Thats a rather grand claim.. How about a source..

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by garentee

Thats a rather grand claim.. How about a source..

I think he is referring to the dinosaurs here?

[garentee]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I think he is referring to the dinosaurs here?

then it does seem to ignore the many species that are wiped out when an ecosystem has been destroyed.. The dinosaurs are definitely a large part of what has gone extinct I will concur,but to say that 99.9% of the extinct creatures were extinct before us seems a bit inflated.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by garentee

then it does seem to ignore the many species that are wiped out when an ecosystem has been destroyed.. The dinosaurs are definitely a large part of what has gone extinct I will concur,but to say that 99.9% of the extinct creatures were extinct before us seems a bit inflated.

I thought so too.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by garentee

then it does seem to ignore the many species that are wiped out when an ecosystem has been destroyed.. The dinosaurs are definitely a large part of what has gone extinct I will concur,but to say that 99.9% of the extinct creatures were extinct before us seems a bit inflated.

Actually, I said that 99% of all species that have ever existed are now gone, and that 99.9% of those, were gone before we came along. But, now that I'm googling, it seems that I under inflated it, and that it is actually somewhere around 99.999% of all species.

They say that at this moment, there are about 40,00,000 species. Over the past 4.5 billion years, there have been roughly 5-50 billion species that have ever existed. You can look up both of those figures. That, comes out to 1 in 1000, which is 99.9%, or being conservative, 1 in 100 which is 99%.

There have been multiple mass extinction events that got up to 90% of all species getting extinct. Is it really so hard to believe, that in our tiny tiny little bit of existence, that what ever animals we have made extinct, is only .01% of all species EVER alive on this planet? Extinction for ever single species is and always have been inevitable.

The figure I mentioned, has been quoted for decades. It isn't something I just came up with off the top of my head.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

So, you're saying it would have happened with or without us?

I don't think that can be the case, when you have people poaching gorillas for their hands, and elephants for their ivory at an alarming rate though.

Sure, lots of species would probably die out anyway, of insects and smaller creatures, but besides a volcano eruption or other 'natural disasters', there is no reason why larger animals would just suddenly up and die out is there?

What I'm saying, is that the animals that have gone extinct do to us, is a tiny % of all species that have ever lived, and is even a smaller % of all species that have gone extinct. That, if we didn't kill them, they would have died, just not as quickly as we've made them die off. Without humans, time is meaningless. We'd like to contemplate 4,000,000,000 years, but we can't. We've been killing off species for .0000001 % of the known life of the planet. We think that a million years is a long time away, but without us to perceive the million years, it will happen in the blink of an eye, and species alive today, will be extinct.

I mean, it's probably best that we don't kill off a whole bunch of species, but that's for OUR sake, not the species sake, because one way or another, they will die off, with or without us. Also, lets not forget that about 99 percent of all known living species are invertebrates. Those cuddly mammals, and fish and birds, and us, are yet again a tiny fraction of the current world population. So when we see big animals dying, it makes a bigger perceived impact on us. But then, you think about the fact that termites outweigh human kind, and you kinda think to yourself " hmm, maybe what we think is significant, actually isn't".

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Actually, I said that 99% of all species that have ever existed are now gone, and that 99.9% of those, were gone before we came along. But, now that I'm googling, it seems that I under inflated it, and that it is actually somewhere around 99.999% of all species.

They say that at this moment, there are about 40,00,000 species. Over the past 4.5 billion years, there have been roughly 5-50 billion species that have ever existed. You can look up both of those figures. That, comes out to 1 in 1000, which is 99.9%, or being conservative, 1 in 100 which is 99%.

There have been multiple mass extinction events that got up to 90% of all species getting extinct. Is it really so hard to believe, that in our tiny tiny little bit of existence, that what ever animals we have made extinct, is only .01% of all species EVER alive on this planet? Extinction for ever single species is and always have been inevitable.

The figure I mentioned, has been quoted for decades. It isn't something I just came up with off the top of my head.

I do stand corrected..That said I do believe that we cannot just be so cavalier about habitat and speicies loss...

[cheesedip1]

If all the humans get wiped out, won't we just have to start over on some other planet?

I don't think we're getting off that easy....

[firenexx]

Originally Posted by arpee

Hmm, I don't think that is so. Earth is a living being it doesn't need us to think about it to exist... If we are gone, the earth will break down our cement road, and scientific laboratories and revert back to it's natural state with the grass and water... In fact, the earth is already trying to do that, have you ever seen plant-life growing from the crack of the cement?

The earth is a living being with it's own intentions... It'll be fine with or without us...

Nope... I'm pretty sure that if we were wiped out, all of our neglected nuclear reactors would have full meltdowns, and the fallout from that would most likely be enough to destroy every single living cell on the planet.

Originally Posted by elucidate

You don't have to agree with me, but do you really think it's realistic that the thousands upon thousands of species of animals and plants that are now extinct will just grow back miraculously?

[Disclaimer: I wrote this reply while viewing page one, so I had not yet seen RR's post, so I did not know that he would say this, so I am not actually calling him stupid. Hopefully this disclaimer is enough to keep the banstick away!]
Now, a cynical anti-environmentalist would say something like:
99% of all the species ever to exist on this planet are extinct! A few thousand isn't going to make a difference!
But I'm not stupid and I won't say that, because I understand simple mathematics. The rate at which extinctions happen has been increasing on a ridiculous scale post industrial revolution. Enough to make that 99% turn into 100% in a few generations. One needs to look no further than the rate of rainforest destruction, which has been increasing on a retarded scale, and rainforests are the most diverse places on the planet. This is unprecedented. I understand full well the scale involved here, and the number of species that have existed, but we are destroying them at a rate that matches that scale, and scares it shitless.
I guess what I am saying, is that I am very optimistic and I believe that we have not quite destroyed enough of the ecosystem to make it not self-sustainable. I think we'll be alright in the end.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by firenexx

I guess what I am saying, is that I am very optimistic and I believe that we have not quite destroyed enough of the ecosystem to make it not self-sustainable. I think we'll be alright in the end.

I hope you're right, that's all I can say.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

If all the humans get wiped out, won't we just have to start over on some other planet?

I don't think we're getting off that easy....

If we get wiped out how do you propose we start again on another planet? Getting wiped out means there won't be any of us left TO start again, right.

Your comment makes no sense.

[Reefs]

Originally Posted by superfoodist

With all of this Israel vs Iran stuff, it's really starting to seem like the end is near. If just one nuke goes off on either side, it will trigger a chain reaction of all nuke holders to unleash their arsenal, destroying massive portions of the world from direct blasts, and then destroying even more through radiation that will spread throughout the entire planet.

It's really hard for me to stay positive everyday. As soon as I begin to be optimistic, I suddenly think about the worlds condition, and it's hard to be happy again.

I don't believe the bible in the sense of it being the "book of God", but I definitely think it's a blueprint that the powers that be work by, and so far everything that's happening is fitting in quite well with the Book of Revelations..

The events in Egypt, the events in Libya, now the wars about to begin with Israel. This is all very unfortunate and I can't seem to shake off this depression that comes along with my awareness. :/

Do some research in news paper archives and you might notice that since the 1950's almost every fall world war 3 was near...

[JSB]

Originally Posted by firenexx

Nope... I'm pretty sure that if we were wiped out, all of our neglected nuclear reactors would have full meltdowns, and the fallout from that would most likely be enough to destroy every single living cell on the planet.

I doubt it. Some species might be highly affected, but it certainly wouldn't come anywhere near to wiping out all life. The area around Chernobyl is still very radioactive today, but it is also full of wildlife.

[cheesedip1]

Originally Posted by elucidate

If we get wiped out how do you propose we start again on another planet? Getting wiped out means there won't be any of us left TO start again, right.

Your comment makes no sense.

If we all get wiped out, we will all return to the ether. And then, we will all probably have to reincarnate on some other planet and try the whole EARTH scenario again. I don't think we get a free pass this time around...

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

If we all get wiped out, we will all return to the ether. And then, we will all probably have to reincarnate on some other planet and try the whole EARTH scenario again. I don't think we get a free pass this time around...

Ah ok. I didn't realize you were speaking about reincarnation. I don't hold the same beliefs as you so that's why it didn't make sense to me.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by JSB

I doubt it. Some species might be highly affected, but it certainly wouldn't come anywhere near to wiping out all life. The area around Chernobyl is still very radioactive today, but it is also full of wildlife.

Even I survived Chernobyl, living only 70 miles away : D tho, some people might accuse me of coming out of it with a few issues

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Even I survived Chernobyl, living only 70 miles away : D tho, some people might accuse me of coming out of it with a few issues

That explains A LOT!