Occupy people - please read

[Peterw]

An alternative to protesting that will actually have an effect on the bankers:

Occupy My Wallet: Moving Money Off Wall Street - Bloomberg

If you're really ticked off at Wall Street, you've got some options: Grab your sleeping bag and head to the nearest protest site, or do something that actually pinches the big bankers' bottom line.

The second choice may be the smarter one. While Occupy Wall Street protests are colorful and make for good sound bites, what major bankers and money managers really care about are their pocketbooks, and pain in that department is most likely to get them rethinking their ways.

Activists at websites such as MoveYourMoneyProject.org recommend that savers switch from banks to credit unions, but there’s another alternative few are talking about. It's buying and holding low-cost index funds, rather than investing in the actively managed mutual funds and other products sold by the big banks and financial services firms. The beauty of such a "revolt" is that it deprives the Street of profits and saves investors money at the same time.

Move Your Money Project

The Move Your Money project is a nonprofit campaign that encourages individuals and institutions to divest from the nation's largest Wall Street banks and move to local financial institutions. Little has changed to prevent another financial crisis or to end 'Too Big To Fail,' and with Congress unwilling to act, we are encouraging individuals to take power into their own hands by voting with their dollars and no longer contributing to a financial system that has led our country astray. We are a campaign that gives people real, concrete actions they can take to create a more sane, stable and localized banking system.

Much more comfortable and probably more effective than camping out in the snow

[Beingist]

I can see the credit union thing, and am beginning to look into that, presently.

But, as far as anything else, in terms of Wall Street--I'm simply buying all the physical gold and silver I can, for the day the whole fiat money system collapses. I want nothing to do with Wall Street. Period.

[garentee]

I think in the end the big acheivement that the Occupy protest will win is that people will start to wake up.Not many people will be able to move their money if they do not know what is going on.. There is entirely too much of the Population that does not understand what is really going on.. Thus the protests are an integral part of changing the situation...First things first...The system is broken but it perpetuates itself as long as people are asleep...

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by garentee

First things first...The system is broken but it perpetuates itself as long as people are asleep...

Part of the broken system includes people who are perfectly alright with everyone else being asleep, and continue to work toward that end.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by garentee

There is entirely too much of the Population that does not understand what is really going on.. Thus the protests are an integral part of changing the situation...

Funny that you should say that, considering most of the protesters don't understand what the hell is going on with the economy either.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Part of the broken system includes people who are perfectly alright with everyone else being asleep, and continue to work toward that end.

precisely

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

Funny that you should say that, considering most of the protesters don't understand what the hell is going on with the economy either.

I do not agree with that.. I think that there are a LOT of people involved in this protest that have been directly affected by the current climate. I think there is a ton of misinformation from corporate media sources of who is involved with this movement. It is people of all ages and beliefs.Bottom line is that corporate and government collusion are keeping things in a certain manner to tilt the playing field in their favor...But they are skillful at making an illusion out of the situation at hand.. Gottta go.. way past my bed time...

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

[...] most of the protesters don't understand what the hell is going on with the economy [...]

Originally Posted by garentee

I do not agree with that.. I think that there are a LOT of people involved in this protest that have been directly affected by the current climate. I think there is a ton of misinformation from corporate media sources of who is involved with this movement. It is people of all ages and beliefs.Bottom line is that corporate and government collusion are keeping things in a certain manner to tilt the playing field in their favor...But they are skillful at making an illusion out of the situation at hand...

I agree that most of the protesters don't understand what the hell is going on with the economy, because if they did, they'd be gathering at Federal Reserve Buildings across the nation, not Wall Street.

Granted, I agree that a LOT of people involved in the the protest have been directly affected by the current climate, but that doesn't mean they know the true causes behind it.

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Part of the broken system includes people who are perfectly alright with everyone else being asleep, and continue to work toward that end.

No one's forcing anyone to be asleep or awake. It's good that people are waking up though.

Originally Posted by garentee

Bottom line is that corporate and government collusion are keeping things in a certain manner to tilt the playing field in their favor...

This is a bit paranoid I think. 'The system' favours those who choose to learn how to work it to their advantage. Unfortunately it isn't geared to favouring the average 9-5 Joe who went to school, got good grades, went to college and got a good degree then went into a 9-5, had 2.4 children, mortgage etc, saved for retirement then retired. This is what up until 2008 was considered the safe/secure path which the '95%' choose as their path.

The problem with this is that on this path people tend to place all their eggs into this 1 basket, they also tend to get into debt as this was also considered 'normal' and acceptable beacause things could only get better and one day they'd be in a position to pay it off. This is why when somoene got a promotion and more money they would upgrade their debt to a bigger house/ more expensive car and lifestyle etc. instead of paying it off and building some assets.

OK I'm pretty much quoting "Rich Dad Poor Dad" verbatim here. Another path that the '5%' choose to take is to not accrue debt but start building assets that eventually become the source of income. To illustrate this I'll just grab some images from this blog post on financial intelligence that show both paths.

Firstly I'll show a basic financial statement that has 4 columns (Income/Expenses and Assets/Liabilities), this is a very basic take on how you view the financial health of a company and it can also be applied to yuor personal financial situation. Income/Expenses is pretty self explanatory. Assets are things that you own that generate income and/or appreciate/depreciate in value such as stocks/bonds/real estate/cash in the bank etc. Liabilities are debts that you have taken on that drain money from you such as credit cards, personal loans, car loans, mortgage (mortgages can be classed as 'good debt' because they build equity).

This is the financial statement of the 95% average Joe who did everything right and got a job, mortgage and some consumer debt. You can see the income is reliant on a paycheck, there are no or very few assets (stocks, funds, real estate etc) and there are some liabilities (mortgage, car loan, credit cards, personla loans).

Average Joe has now lost his paycheck and is in a very unpleasant situation. It's not his fault he was 'asleep' and now he blames the banks and the government for causing the situation which has turned his life upside down. I'd be pretty angry as well.

Now if you look at not so average Jane in the 5% who chose the same path as Joe but without the debt (maybe a mortgage) and put aside some time, money and effort to learn a bit about investing and building some assets. Jane has a higher tolerance for risk and isn't afraid of failing or losing money in the process of getting it right. Jane might work as a freelancer or have her own small business, she works longer and harder and sometimes for free putting in sweat equity to build a future that is not reliant on 1 single paycheck. She also lives within her means and doesn't have liabilities that bleed money from her. She has a plan and she's following it.

Her financial statement looks like this:

Jane chose this path and has worked and risked hard to get into a situation where she can ride out the crisis. She might even be in a position to profit from volatile market movements and get even richer (however she prefers calm and rational markets).

Both of these paths are open to anyone who chooses to follow them and have been for a long time. I think the game has changed and is changing a lot and very quickly (thanks to the Internet and globalisation). The safe secure job route is now not as safe and secure as people thought, being in debt was considered normal but is now being exposed as toxic as all the fabricated money is evaporating.

Perhaps going forward the subject of financial intelligence should be tought in schools. The 5% route is available to anyone who chooses to take it, perhaps now more people will. And maybe they'll vote with their wallets and let some smaller financial institutes with more to play for have a crack.

Perhaps a new breed and generation of banks and corporations can come out of this with a better sens of equality and social responsibility? We live in exciting times.

Originally Posted by Beingist

I agree that most of the protesters don't understand what the hell is going on with the economy, because if they did, they'd be gathering at Federal Reserve Buildings across the nation, not Wall Street.

Granted, I agree that a LOT of people involved in the the protest have been directly affected by the current climate, but that doesn't mean they know the true causes behind it.

Maybe soon we can all go and occupy Greece and Italy, I can think of worse places to camp out

[Peterw]

This is taking shape now - I support this and hope they do the same over here:

Bank dumping day begins - Nov. 4, 2011

[Andrew Gubb]

I'm moving my money to triodos bank.

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by Peterw

No one's forcing anyone to be asleep or awake. It's good that people are waking up though.



This is a bit paranoid I think. 'The system' favours those who choose to learn how to work it to their advantage. Unfortunately it isn't geared to favouring the average 9-5 Joe who went to school, got good grades, went to college and got a good degree then went into a 9-5, had 2.4 children, mortgage etc, saved for retirement then retired. This is what up until 2008 was considered the safe/secure path which the '95%' choose as their path.

The problem with this is that on this path people tend to place all their eggs into this 1 basket, they also tend to get into debt as this was also considered 'normal' and acceptable beacause things could only get better and one day they'd be in a position to pay it off. This is why when somoene got a promotion and more money they would upgrade their debt to a bigger house/ more expensive car and lifestyle etc. instead of paying it off and building some assets.

OK I'm pretty much quoting "Rich Dad Poor Dad" verbatim here. Another path that the '5%' choose to take is to not accrue debt but start building assets that eventually become the source of income. To illustrate this I'll just grab some images from this blog post on financial intelligence that show both paths.

Firstly I'll show a basic financial statement that has 4 columns (Income/Expenses and Assets/Liabilities), this is a very basic take on how you view the financial health of a company and it can also be applied to yuor personal financial situation. Income/Expenses is pretty self explanatory. Assets are things that you own that generate income and/or appreciate/depreciate in value such as stocks/bonds/real estate/cash in the bank etc. Liabilities are debts that you have taken on that drain money from you such as credit cards, personal loans, car loans, mortgage (mortgages can be classed as 'good debt' because they build equity).

This is the financial statement of the 95% average Joe who did everything right and got a job, mortgage and some consumer debt. You can see the income is reliant on a paycheck, there are no or very few assets (stocks, funds, real estate etc) and there are some liabilities (mortgage, car loan, credit cards, personla loans).

Average Joe has now lost his paycheck and is in a very unpleasant situation. It's not his fault he was 'asleep' and now he blames the banks and the government for causing the situation which has turned his life upside down. I'd be pretty angry as well.

Now if you look at not so average Jane in the 5% who chose the same path as Joe but without the debt (maybe a mortgage) and put aside some time, money and effort to learn a bit about investing and building some assets. Jane has a higher tolerance for risk and isn't afraid of failing or losing money in the process of getting it right. Jane might work as a freelancer or have her own small business, she works longer and harder and sometimes for free putting in sweat equity to build a future that is not reliant on 1 single paycheck. She also lives within her means and doesn't have liabilities that bleed money from her. She has a plan and she's following it.

Her financial statement looks like this:

Jane chose this path and has worked and risked hard to get into a situation where she can ride out the crisis. She might even be in a position to profit from volatile market movements and get even richer (however she prefers calm and rational markets).

Both of these paths are open to anyone who chooses to follow them and have been for a long time. I think the game has changed and is changing a lot and very quickly (thanks to the Internet and globalisation). The safe secure job route is now not as safe and secure as people thought, being in debt was considered normal but is now being exposed as toxic as all the fabricated money is evaporating.

Perhaps going forward the subject of financial intelligence should be tought in schools. The 5% route is available to anyone who chooses to take it, perhaps now more people will. And maybe they'll vote with their wallets and let some smaller financial institutes with more to play for have a crack.

Perhaps a new breed and generation of banks and corporations can come out of this with a better sens of equality and social responsibility? We live in exciting times.



Maybe soon we can all go and occupy Greece and Italy, I can think of worse places to camp out

Bravo! I wish more people thought like you. Instead everybody blames others for their problems. Sometimes others are to blame, but most of the time people just didn't plan or make the right choices.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

Bravo! I wish more people thought like you. Instead everybody blames others for their problems. Sometimes others are to blame, but most of the time people just didn't plan or make the right choices.

And sometimes people just will not sell their souls just to make a buck..

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by garentee

And sometimes people just will not sell their souls just to make a buck..

Who says that you have to sell your soul to make a buck? That's yet another limiting belief you keep putting out there. There are many ways to make a buck, and there are many ways to honestly make a buck. For you to even say what you just said, pretty much shows your negative bias towards money or anyone who makes it.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Who says that you have to sell your soul to make a buck? That's yet another limiting belief you keep putting out there. There are many ways to make a buck, and there are many ways to honestly make a buck. For you to even say what you just said, pretty much shows your negative bias towards money or anyone who makes it.

I never said you HAVE to sell your soul to make a buck, I just said that SOMETIMES people will not sell their souls just to make a buck... BIG difference. But yeah I will not sell my soul just to make a buck because money is definitely not everything... Living a fulfilling life is worth a heck of a lot more than any money EVER will be.. You can have tons of money and not have a fulfilling life which is just plain sad.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

Bravo! I wish more people thought like you. Instead everybody blames others for their problems. Sometimes others are to blame, but most of the time people just didn't plan or make the right choices.

Originally Posted by garentee

And sometimes people just will not sell their souls just to make a buck..

Originally Posted by garentee

I never said you HAVE to sell your soul to make a buck, I just said that SOMETIMES people will not sell their souls just to make a buck... BIG difference. But yeah I will not sell my soul just to make a buck because money is definitely not everything... Living a fulfilling life is worth a heck of a lot more than any money EVER will be.. You can have tons of money and not have a fulfilling life which is just plain sad.

It has nothing to do with you saying anyone HAS to sell their soul to make a buck. Trust me, I am not the only one that read what you wrote, the way I did. What was the reason for you even saying what you said, in relation to the post by scorpio? Why even bring up, that some people won't sell their souls to make a buck? No one has to sell their soul to make a buck. If some people decide they want to, that's their business. But, nothing in this thread even hinted at making money illegally, or dishonestly, in ANY way. You brought that up, for absolutely no reason, other then to bring money and people who make it, into a negative light. Unjustly I might add.

As I said, you have a very negative and pessimistic view of money, and people who make it, and you are projecting that onto everyone else, and your view of the occupy protests, as well as the very good posts in this thread.

Now, you might view a big difference between what you said, and what you claim you said, but I doubt anyone else sees that difference.

What did scorpio say, that would have possibly sparked your comment? Or the comment by peter, that scorpio was responding to.
I'm looking at it, over and over again, and I can't see it.

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

Bravo! I wish more people thought like you. Instead everybody blames others for their problems. Sometimes others are to blame, but most of the time people just didn't plan or make the right choices.

He's trying to show that people have control of their own lives. That blame others isn't the way to go about it. That the things that happened in our lives, doesn't just magically go away, if we put it on the shoulders of others. That a big portion of these protests, is just that. Putting blame on others, and relieving your own guilt of making poor ( even if you thought they were perfect) choices in life. You can't blame parents, or you can blame tv, or government or blame the schools they were in. What ever. Once you are 18, you are an adult, and you sow your own seeds, and you must lay in the bed you make. I've made some stupid choices in life, and once I actually gained some wisdom, I stopped blaming everyone else for them. Time for you to step up to the plate too.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

It has nothing to do with you saying anyone HAS to sell their soul to make a buck. Trust me, I am not the only one that read what you wrote, the way I did. What was the reason for you even saying what you said, in relation to the post by scorpio? Why even bring up, that some people won't sell their souls to make a buck? No one has to sell their soul to make a buck. If some people decide they want to, that's their business. But, nothing in this thread even hinted at making money illegally, or dishonestly, in ANY way. You brought that up, for absolutely no reason, other then to bring money and people who make it, into a negative light. Unjustly I might add.

As I said, you have a very negative and pessimistic view of money, and people who make it, and you are projecting that onto everyone else, and your view of the occupy protests, as well as the very good posts in this thread.

Now, you might view a big difference between what you said, and what you claim you said, but I doubt anyone else sees that difference.

What did scorpio say, that would have possibly sparked your comment? Or the comment by peter, that scorpio was responding to.
I'm looking at it, over and over again, and I can't see it.


He's trying to show that people have control of their own lives. That blame others isn't the way to go about it. That the things that happened in our lives, doesn't just magically go away, if we put it on the shoulders of others. That a big portion of these protests, is just that. Putting blame on others, and relieving your own guilt of making poor ( even if you thought they were perfect) choices in life. You can't blame parents, or you can blame tv, or government or blame the schools they were in. What ever. Once you are 18, you are an adult, and you sow your own seeds, and you must lay in the bed you make. I've made some stupid choices in life, and once I actually gained some wisdom, I stopped blaming everyone else for them. Time for you to step up to the plate too.

I said what I said in response to Scorpios comment because there are a lot of reasons behind peoples choices that may seem like bad choices to an outside observer. This is an honest assessment as I see it.. IF you do not like it that is fine....
I never said I have a problem with making money or people with money.. YOU said that. I have a problem with shady business practices which pass for conventionally ok, which I find that MANY corporate businesses and banks do as a matter of course. I run my own business and work very hard to put a quality product up for the customer.. something that many of the companies that piss me off to no end do NOT. I have a real hair across my arse about outsourcing jobs to foreign countries and underpaying people to work in shi&y working conditions all to make an inferior product. Who makes the money in that situation? someone who had NOTHING to do with its production. If you are going to make a quality product and treat your employees well you deserve to be compensated justly for it.. I am tired of the crap that passes for quality.

At the end of the day I 100% agree with switching banks away from the Bottom feeders that pose as banks. i am already with a locally owned bank, but am considering a credit union.Enough is enough.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by garentee

I said what I said in response to Scorpios comment because there are a lot of reasons behind peoples choices that may seem like bad choices to an outside observer. This is an honest assessment as I see it.. IF you do not like it that is fine....
I never said I have a problem with making money or people with money.. YOU said that. I have a problem with shady business practices which pass for conventionally ok, which I find that MANY corporate businesses and banks do as a matter of course. I run my own business and work very hard to put a quality product up for the customer.. something that many of the companies that piss me off to no end do NOT. I have a real hair across my arse about outsourcing jobs to foreign countries and underpaying people to work in shi&y working conditions all to make an inferior product. Who makes the money in that situation? someone who had NOTHING to do with its production. If you are going to make a quality product and treat your employees well you deserve to be compensated justly for it.. I am tired of the crap that passes for quality.

At the end of the day I 100% agree with switching banks away from the Bottom feeders that pose as banks. i am already with a locally owned bank, but am considering a credit union.Enough is enough.

Ok, so what you actually were saying, is that the EXCUSE for people not starting their own business, or doing something to make money beyond the situation that they are in life, is because they don't have enough imagination, to make money in a way that's legal and or honest. So, your theory, is that the reason these people aren't doing it, is because they don't want to sell their soul for a buck, which implies they have no way to make a buck honestly, or these people you speak of, can't think of a way. Once again, it's on THESE people, and no one else. And it's not about selling your soul for a buck, but about these people not being able to figure out a way to do it with out doing so, or THEIR limiting beliefs that the only way to do it, would cost them their soul.

So, once again, there is no reason for what you actually said, and all it does it paint a negative light on making money in general. Unless EVERY way to make money, meant selling your soul. When in reality, there are honest and dishonest ways of making money, and using not wanting to sell your soul for a buck as an excuse, makes it seem like the only viable ways are to sell your soul, when really, there are millions of ways, honest or not.

All of which is nothing but limiting beliefs and a negative biased stigma placed on making money.

What's wrong with these people exactly, that your excuse, is the excuse that they need to use to justify their choice? Are they just the kind of people, that would undoubtedly abuse people or do business dishonestly, so they might as well not even start, because it would lead then down a path of selling their soul for a buck?

I really do want to know your thinking behind it, because I can't figure out the reason for it, based on what you've actually told me thus far, aside from what I've already said about it, which you claim I'm wrong about.

[garentee]

I think maybe you ought rethink what I said.. I think what I said was quite clear and illustrated the issue quite clearly.
My point to Scorpio was that there are always hidden reasons why a choice is made.. Some rational some not. It will not make sense to a casual observer from time to time because they do not have all the information. That is all I said. So when I say some people are not willing to sell their soul it means that they are NOT willing to do just anything to make a buck. It means that they want to make an honest living. It means they do not want to be deceitful in any way to their customers, and it certainly means that they do not want to harm their customers.

If you spent a day working with me you would understand what honest work is and you would also see that I am not against making money.. You do not know me and you are twisting my words to make it look like I am not responsible for my lot in life. I see how you read into things that others on this board say and twist them around, but you are not going to do it to me..

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by garentee

I see how you read into things that others on this board say and twist them around, but you are not going to do it to me..

Just a note to mention that as long as you continue to engage him, you run the risk of being read askew by him.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by garentee

I think maybe you ought rethink what I said.. I think what I said was quite clear and illustrated the issue quite clearly.
My point to Scorpio was that there are always hidden reasons why a choice is made.. Some rational some not. It will not make sense to a casual observer from time to time because they do not have all the information. That is all I said. So when I say some people are not willing to sell their soul it means that they are NOT willing to do just anything to make a buck. It means that they want to make an honest living. It means they do not want to be deceitful in any way to their customers, and it certainly means that they do not want to harm their customers.

If you spent a day working with me you would understand what honest work is and you would also see that I am not against making money.. You do not know me and you are twisting my words to make it look like I am not responsible for my lot in life. I see how you read into things that others on this board say and twist them around, but you are not going to do it to me..

I'm not twisting any words. I see your words. They are there in plain view. And I will restate, that there was no reason to say them. I think everyone knows some people aren't willing to sell their soul for a buck. But that has nothing to do with what he said, when there are ways to make money without selling your soul! Seriously, you just don't want to see ANY error in what you said, what's so ever. You are fighting it tooth and nail. Reread what you said, for just a second.

I read into things just fine. I've had some people accuse me of reading into things. Yet, usually, I'm not the only one reading the exact same thing from that person, so I'd easily say that it's THEM that WROTE it wrong, or don't want to admit to themselves, what it actually meant, vs what they feel it means.

That's great. I'm glad they want to make an honest living, and don't want to be deceitful. But nothing that either of the posters said, would preclude someone making money HONESTLY. That's YOU that misread it or something, and projecting your feelings onto THEIR words. So I will hold my point, that your post was unnecessary.

If people don't want to make money dishonestly, then that's not a good enough excuse to not make money, unless the only way to make money, was dishonestly, which is not the case. Their lack of planning or incorrect choices, have nothing to do with not wanting to sell their soul. The only incorrect choice the would be making, is assuming that dishonesty, is the only way to make money. Seriously. Stop for a second, and just reread this entire thread. I don't think this is the first time you've tried to play around with semantics to change what you've actually posted.

[russianrocket]

Anyone want to back me up on this? Because I seriously feel like I'm going in circles here.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I'm not twisting any words. I see your words. They are there in plain view. And I will restate, that there was no reason to say them. I think everyone knows some people aren't willing to sell their soul for a buck. But that has nothing to do with what he said, when there are ways to make money without selling your soul! Seriously, you just don't want to see ANY error in what you said, what's so ever. You are fighting it tooth and nail. Reread what you said, for just a second.

I read into things just fine. I've had some people accuse me of reading into things. Yet, usually, I'm not the only one reading the exact same thing from that person, so I'd easily say that it's THEM that WROTE it wrong, or don't want to admit to themselves, what it actually meant, vs what they feel it means.

That's great. I'm glad they want to make an honest living, and don't want to be deceitful. But nothing that either of the posters said, would preclude someone making money HONESTLY. That's YOU that misread it or something, and projecting your feelings onto THEIR words. So I will hold my point, that your post was unnecessary.

If people don't want to make money dishonestly, then that's not a good enough excuse to not make money, unless the only way to make money, was dishonestly, which is not the case. Their lack of planning or incorrect choices, have nothing to do with not wanting to sell their soul. The only incorrect choice the would be making, is assuming that dishonesty, is the only way to make money. Seriously. Stop for a second, and just reread this entire thread. I don't think this is the first time you've tried to play around with semantics to change what you've actually posted.

You cannot seriously be telling me that my opinion is wrong.. its an opinion...I said what I said i meant what I said and I know you may not understand why I said it but it is the way I see the situation.. I do not know what else to tell you... Think about it.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by garentee

You cannot seriously be telling me that my opinion is wrong.. its an opinion...I said what I said i meant what I said and I know you may not understand why I said it but it is the way I see the situation.. I do not know what else to tell you... Think about it.

And you cannot seriously be this blind. I never stated your OPINION is wrong. I stated that your opinion had no bearing on the post you were responding to, and that it was a negative limiting belief based on your own ideas about money. And that there was no reason for you to say it, when no one was even talking about people not making money because of any dishonesty in it. The topic of discussion, was people making choices in life, that lead them to where they are now. Then you come along, and bring up some non sequitur about people not wanting to sell their souls for a buck, when that has nothing to do with people choosing not to make money, unless ANYONE suggested that doing it dishonestly is the only way to do it. Yes, choosing not to sell your soul for a buck, is a good reason for not making money, but only when it comes to dishonest ways of making money, and there for, is not a real excuse, except for when it pertains to select situations in life, which NO ONE HERE is arguing against. Are you seriously not reading a thing I've said, or what?

[garentee]

I will go through this one more time.... This..

Sometimes others are to blame, but most of the time people just didn't plan or make the right choices.

Led me to say that sometimes people are not willing to sell their souls to make a buck. Basically I am saying that not everything is so black and white as to say that a person did not make the right choice or planned poorly... There is no way that those are the only two reasons.. SO I put in my little quip about Selling your soul...That is all there is to it...You have spent entirely too much energy on this...

[garentee]

Why do you think that there is no reason to write my response anyways... I can say what ever I like and I felt that the response in question was valid...if it caused you as much stress as it seems like it did, perhaps you could have just ignored it.. I am done discussing this with you.. I am just expressing what is on my mind...

[garentee]

OK so I do have one more thing to add... Dont tell me what I believe and definitely do not tell me what to believe.. If I did want to have negative beliefs about money it is None of your business.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by garentee

I will go through this one more time.... This..

Sometimes others are to blame, but most of the time people just didn't plan or make the right choices.

Led me to say that sometimes people are not willing to sell their souls to make a buck. Basically I am saying that not everything is so black and white as to say that a person did not make the right choice or planned poorly... There is no way that those are the only two reasons.. SO I put in my little quip about Selling your soul...That is all there is to it...You have spent entirely too much energy on this...

Originally Posted by garentee

Why do you think that there is no reason to write my response anyways... I can say what ever I like and I felt that the response in question was valid...if it caused you as much stress as it seems like it did, perhaps you could have just ignored it.. I am done discussing this with you.. I am just expressing what is on my mind...

Originally Posted by garentee

OK so I do have one more thing to add... Dont tell me what I believe and definitely do not tell me what to believe.. If I did want to have negative beliefs about money it is None of your business.

No energy, or stress, or time was expelled trying to show you how irrelevant your post was, and how your negative beliefs about money shows through. And it's thoroughly my business, because you express your opinion on a public forum. If you didn't want things being peoples business, then don't post in public.

And I have one more thing to add. Or is it the same thing. NO ONE was taking about doing business dishonestly. There for your quip was irrelevant and biased. That's perfectly ok for me to say on here. And you could have EASILY said " Yes, you're right, it was irrelevant, and it's my right to post up something irrelevant. " and I could have been like " ok, cool, I'm done"

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

And I have one more thing to add. Or is it the same thing. NO ONE was taking about doing business dishonestly. There for your quip was irrelevant and biased. That's perfectly ok for me to say on here. And you could have EASILY said " Yes, you're right, it was irrelevant, and it's my right to post up something irrelevant. " and I could have been like " ok, cool, I'm done"

Yeah of course I am biased... I have my opinion... I am fully within my rights to state my opinion.. You can do what you want with it.. In this case you warped it to fit in to your world view....

[Shift]

Whenever there's a protest regarding money, I'm just not sure what to say. I understand that there's a gap between the rich and the poor, but is that a good enough reason to protest? I think it's more a case of, "I need someone to blame for my problems".

Some people have legitimate problems. Farmers get treated like food is going out of style. If we don't want to starve, better help those guys out.

But what about people who buy things they can't afford? Is it Wall Street's problem that people spend beyond their means? An economic collapse doesn't occur because of a few rich people. It happens because a lot of individuals made bad decisions.

Although people are waking up, I don't think they're waking up to the right thing. Instead of happily buying whatever they want, now they'll keep those greedy rich people away from their wallets. The effect will be good, but the lesson is lost.

I'm starting to wonder if people will ever realize that they're in charge of their own destinies. You don't have to own a smartphone, drive a nice car, live in a big house, or dine out five nights a week. If not having those things makes you poor, that doesn't mean you have to rage against people who do have it. Absolutely bizarre.