Stand With The Wall Street Protesters

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Because, the BIG BIG BIG complaint of the group, is about their college degrees, and how they were "promised" a job out of college thanks to these degrees, and now they want assistance on the huge loans that they created in search for that career. Yeah, there are people from all walks of life, but I am talking about the majority. I don't know how people can still argue about this. The MAJORITY of the people, a large part actually, are college aged kids, who have no jobs out of college. So, yeah, THAT matters, because I'd love to see just what type of degrees they got, so that I can see if their argument is valid, about not being able to find jobs, and see if their degrees actually correlate with realistic job placement opportunities. The types of job opportunities that perhaps someone with an engineering degree would get, or even a business major.

And quite frankly, there is no lack of jobs. It's a lack of jobs that THEY are willing to take. I see for hire everywhere. And if they want jobs, once again, going after corps sure isn't the way to do it,

What kinds of jobs are you seeing, and how many people are going for each job? I find it hard to believe that there are LOTS of jobs out there..not when people are losing their houses and unemployment is 9% (Realistically it is a LOT higher, but that is only the amount of people who are still looking.. many well qualified people(Not just Joe College kid) are having a hard time landing a job.. maybe it is good where you are, and it is not necessarily terrible where I am though you do not have to look to hard too far away(Less than 15miles) to know that some area sare in a depression and not just a recession..
Much as you would like to believe it, the OWS people are not going away...If they get kicked out of their tent cities, they will show back up somewhere else. Many people are disillusioned with the way things are going in this country and you can probably expect it to not get much better for quite a while what with housing values in the toilet and general bad economic stuff going on...They are picking on wall street because wall street and corporations are in bed and colluding with the government and in many cases are the government... There is no getting around that, and that is what the griping is all about...

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by garentee

Really? So what? So people are having sex.. big deal... Heck I say more power to them.. There is plenty of promiscuity throughout society.

I was only joking.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Beingist

I was only joking.

Oh..

[Beingist]

What in the world is this, now?!

Occupy Wall Street Protesters Hold Up Effigy Of Obama | Politicons

Ugh.

This country's totally screwed up.

[James Fletcher]

Occupy Wall Street Erects Women-Only Tent After Reports Of Sexual Assaults: Gothamist

Makes me wonder if all the love going on at the Summer of Love in '69 was really free, or was it just that there was less awareness of rape back then.

[James Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Beingist

What in the world is this, now?!

Occupy Wall Street Protesters Hold Up Effigy Of Obama | Politicons

Ugh.

This country's totally screwed up.

All I can say is that thing is just disturbing. Looks like a bad E.T. rip off....

... which is an EXCELLENT opportunity for me to recommend checking out The Cinema Snob. Some may be familiar with his work, but those who aren't, basically he does funny reviews of bad low budget movies (he's self-admittedly heavily influenced by Mystery Science Theater 3000).

Anyway, he just did a week long special on E.T. rip offs. Personal favorite was his review of Nukie, top contender for worst film of all time.

OK back in topic then.

[russianrocket]

here is another example of the fine upstanding non violent protesters.

'Occupy D.C.' Goons Push Elderly Woman Down the Stairs - Occupy Wall Street - Fox Nation

Bunch of animals, just standing there, chanting away, while the woman lays there injured.

[Peterw]

Wall St. Pay Is Expected to Fall 20% to 30% - NYTimes.com

[Beingist]

Well, they're not giving up--

City braces for 'tens of thousands' of protesters set to march on Financial District - NYPOST.com

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Well, they're not giving up--

City braces for 'tens of thousands' of protesters set to march on Financial District - NYPOST.com

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

wont be close to 'tens of thousands'. they only think they have that many supporters

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

wont be close to 'tens of thousands'. they only think they have that many supporters

lol as I said,
Hundreds of protesters march on Wall Street | Reuters

They were off by about a factor of 100.

[Beingist]

Indeed, I was rather figuring that the movement would simply peter out, as did the hippies from Haight-Ashbury. I suspect there will still be some consciousness, though, but I think most people are of the opinion that it's time to just pack it in and go home. Those protesting today are, I suspect, the diehards.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Beingist

Indeed, I was rather figuring that the movement would simply peter out, as did the hippies from Haight-Ashbury. I suspect there will still be some consciousness, though, but I think most people are of the opinion that it's time to just pack it in and go home. Those protesting today are, I suspect, the diehards.

Now that it requires actual effort, we see peoples true colors coming out. Camping out is one thing, and actually protesting, is another.

[Beingist]

Guess it's time to Occupy "Black Friday", now--

'Occupy'-Inspired Campaign Urges Boycott Of Black Friday | Fox News

Not that I'm the protesting type, anymore, but I've been "voting with my wallet" for some years, now--I do not shop at WalMart, I do not shop on "Black Friday," and I don't treat Christmas as the big commercial event that most others do.

[ZephyrusX]

Why hasn't the US passed similar legislation?

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Yes, you do. The EU has already passed legislation with such intention (although the US hasn't).

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Why hasn't the US passed similar legislation?

For the same reason the U.S. government passes or doesn't pass any legislation--it's not in the U.S. government's (or the members' thereof) best interest.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Beingist

For the same reason the U.S. government passes or doesn't pass any legislation--it's not in the U.S. government's (or the members' thereof) best immediate interest.

Added that in there for accuracy. Short-sightedness is ingrained into the culture

[Beingist]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

Added that in there for accuracy. Short-sightedness is ingrained into the culture

Interesting point, MU. Can't disagree with that.

[royster]

Media's focus makes no sense
By Tony Eberts, The Record November 25, 2011

Dear Editor:

Perhaps now that the righteous authorities are cracking down on the terrifying presence of little Occupy movement tent camps on public lands, the people can get back to what our current system demands: spending buckets of money on Christmas gewgaws.

Considering how smoothly world affairs are going these days - one fiscal crisis after another, growing unemployment, the gap between rich and poor expanding, millions of people facing famines, floods and disease, more threats of war rising in the Middle East - there surely is no reason to call for the system to be fixed.

It's amazing that so many media outlets and their columnists, who invariably know everything, are proudly claiming that they don't have a clue why the Occupy movement is spreading through thousands of cities around the world.

Instead of trying to find out, our mainstream media concentrate instead on the tent camps. They tend to be untidy, and in Vancouver have interfered with the right of righteous citizens to gather on the art gallery lawn in the cold November rain.

If you talk with the protesters you will be told that for decades the establishment of big corporations, individual billionaires and right-wing politicians have worked to create a climate in which grassroots democracy, livable wages and general concern for the well-being of the majority of the people are things to be attacked.

Many will say that the people themselves should have more power than the tiny minority of the greedy rich.

The corporate media, however, are not allowed to report such things, and so they sputter with rage over "hippies" daring to poke the system in the eye.

If today's reporters had covered the epic fundraising journey of paraplegic Rick Hansen and his Man in Motion world tour, they would have ignored his purpose and concentrated on his wheelchair.

Tony "Haigha" Eberts, New Westminster

[justhopingandsearching]

Right or wrong, the wall street protesters should look towards the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s - 1960s in the US to see how to effectively and successfully do this. Note, the Movement had specific aims and targets. For example, one of their aims was to eliminate Jim Crow Laws, while a specific target was eliminating segregation on the buses. Note that this particular movement lasted over a decade, and the Montgomery Bus Boycott took over a year to achieve its aim: eliminating segregation on the buses. Do the wall street protesters have specific and measurable goals, and are they in this for the long haul? Are any of them willing to potentially die for this?

[royster]

As a veteran 9/11 Truther, I applaud what the grassroots people are doing. However, I learned a LOT from working with 9/11 Truth over the course of 9 years.

It is my strong gut feeling that the Occupy Wall Street protest was initiated by Wall Street itself. Controlling a movement by means of "inside opposition" is extremely affective, and there are many spin-off benefits to the Instigator...not the least of which is making that movement look foolish, thus discouraging other future disent.

Do the wall street protesters have specific and measurable goals, and are they in this for the long haul? Are any of them willing to potentially die for this?

These are wise words. We DO applaud you, Grassroots people. We ask that you be discerning.

If today's reporters had covered the epic fundraising journey of paraplegic Rick Hansen and his Man in Motion world tour, they would have ignored his purpose and concentrated on his wheelchair.

This is spot-on from a life-long environmentalist and political observer. He's 80 years old: he got to that age by making good choices and knowing his opposition.

[garentee]

This is a very interesting video that I found on you tube..It is about 16 minutes long but gives an awful lot of insight on what is rotten about the banks etc.. William Black was a Bank regulator during the Reagan administration....I highly recommend that everyone watch this weather they are a occupier or not....
Occupy LA Teach In William K Black - YouTube

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by garentee

This is a very interesting video that I found on you tube..It is about 16 minutes long but gives an awful lot of insight on what is rotten about the banks etc.. William Black was a Bank regulator during the Reagan administration....I highly recommend that everyone watch this weather they are a occupier or not....
Occupy LA Teach In William K Black - YouTube

I think everyone knows banks are ♥♥♥♥♥♥, but even with all that knowledge, it's still ignored, that the government is what created all the crappy situations we are currently in. They created the laws and regulations, and forced the banks to do things that shouldn't be done. Yet, they are still in front of wall street, and not the white house, and still love their dear leader, who is part of the problem.

I saw some in my city a few days ago. In some park, in front of the dock with all the big yachts. They were completely ignored, while they camp out, and have their little meetings, discussing what their plans are. They are nothing more then a nusience, that people are finally starting to just ignore, the way they do all the homeless. I mean, literally, people walked by, and didn't even look at them. As if they weren't there. Me taking pictures, was probably the most attention they've gotten in weeks. And yes, every single one of them was a young college age person.

[garentee]

watch the video.....This is really the nuts and bolts of why we are in the situation we are in... It is NOT JUST the government ... it is far more than that.. But watch it...Never mind about the occupiers at this point... The issue is with the bankers and the government... the occupiers are trying to get the word out.. Dont shoot the messenger...

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by garentee

watch the video.....This is really the nuts and bolts of why we are in the situation we are in... It is NOT JUST the government ... it is far more than that.. But watch it...Never mind about the occupiers at this point... The issue is with the bankers and the government... the occupiers are trying to get the word out.. Dont shoot the messenger...

Our government forced the banks to make the sub-prime loans - if a bank refused, they suddenly were not eligible to expand, and they were treated horribly by the government agencies - the fed, Congress. Once the banks had the sub-prime loans, they did bundle them and sell them. That was a big reason why we are in the ♥♥♥♥ that we are in right now. It is not JUST the government, but the government is the one who has the true control over everything. It's ridiculous to blame the students, for having a crappy teacher.

[garentee]

Would you just watch the video?

[russianrocket]

wait, there might actually be hope after all.

Occupy Protesters Mobilize for Obama's Visit - NYTimes.com

[firenexx]

So first you say that it is really the college students' fault for getting not a degree that they predict will have a lot of job openings in 4 years. So everyone has to be engineers, or we have to ration out degrees.
Then, you say it is the government's fault for forcing the banks to invest in subprime loans, so they're giving $40,000 loans to students who have no income and their parents (cosigners) who will probably have their house foreclosed on in 2-3 years once daddy gets laid off.
Well, that's fine, it's both of their faults. No need to confuse yourself. But I say the blame game has its limits - aren't many parties equally responsible? I say it's also the fault of the for-profit educational institutions - even public universities are exorbitantly priced. It's like buying a brand new car at age 17.


Ok, so I got a degree in music. That's stupid, right? I should have gotten one in engineering so I could have made 80 grand for a few years and then have my job could get outsourced to India when the military contracts dry up. Well, it just so happens that in Fairfield County (the rich area of my state) full-time private music teachers can make upwards of $100,000 a year, and there is certainly a demand. This degree was not a bad decision in that respect. In fact, it was a much better decision than many students made, picking careers with low salaries and low demand.
Of course, due to unforeseen circumstances, I had to move OUT of Fairfield County. Where I currently live, the same career gets you significantly less (almost 50% less) and there is less demand. I am not whining and complaining, I am simply stating the facts. And yes, I will be able to pay back my student loans, and no, I'm not "occupying" anything except my computer chair. I still recognize that there is a problem, and the problem is NOT just me.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by firenexx

So first you say that it is really the college students' fault for getting not a degree that they predict will have a lot of job openings in 4 years. So everyone has to be engineers, or we have to ration out degrees.
Then, you say it is the government's fault for forcing the banks to invest in subprime loans, so they're giving $40,000 loans to students who have no income and their parents (cosigners) who will probably have their house foreclosed on in 2-3 years once daddy gets laid off.
Well, that's fine, it's both of their faults. No need to confuse yourself. But I say the blame game has its limits - aren't many parties equally responsible? I say it's also the fault of the for-profit educational institutions - even public universities are exorbitantly priced. It's like buying a brand new car at age 17.


Ok, so I got a degree in music. That's stupid, right? I should have gotten one in engineering so I could have made 80 grand for a few years and then have my job could get outsourced to India when the military contracts dry up. Well, it just so happens that in Fairfield County (the rich area of my state) full-time private music teachers can make upwards of $100,000 a year, and there is certainly a demand. This degree was not a bad decision in that respect. In fact, it was a much better decision than many students made, picking careers with low salaries and low demand.
Of course, due to unforeseen circumstances, I had to move OUT of Fairfield County. Where I currently live, the same career gets you significantly less (almost 50% less) and there is less demand. I am not whining and complaining, I am simply stating the facts. And yes, I will be able to pay back my student loans, and no, I'm not "occupying" anything except my computer chair. I still recognize that there is a problem, and the problem is NOT just me.

First, the sub-prime loans I am speaking of, are MORTGAGES, not student loans.

As far as student loans. I have no idea. No one in my family has gotten a student loan, so I am not acquainted with how they work, or what one needs to get it.

College price, average $8500 a year. That is NOT exorbitant. Both my brothers went to college and got Bachelor degrees, with no aid of any kind, working full time minimum wage jobs. Hell, go to a 2 year college for cheap, and then finish it off at a public 4 year college. The problem is, just like everything else in America, people want the best of the best, which means the most expensive. So, who's fault is that? For profit college charge a lot, because they provide a lot, and usually come with more perks, benefits, connections, and value in their degrees. So, you pay to play.

Getting a degree in music, is your choice. Nothing is inherently stupid. It only becomes stupid, when you blame others ( you in general) or ask the government to pay off your loan because you made a bad ( or unlucky or misinformed ) choice. Choices in life, are what make us. I've made plenty of bad ones myself. Really, the only one I still blame someone else for, is ebay kicking me off. But even then, I didn't have a plan B, which is my fault. Just as everyone else, who doesn't get a plan be. They do something, expecting it to work, because the thought of it not working, is too much negativity, and we can't have any of that. The line between paranoid and prepared, seem to have gotten very blurry lately.

People can be what ever the hell they want. If they are getting something for FREE, then rationing is necessary. Rules are necessary. Restrictions are necessary. No one has an inherent "right" to any of it, so there for you can add any stipulations you want. What if every single person in the country wanted a free liberal arts degree?

So, you thought to yourself " if I get a music degree, I'll have this awesome job. No chance I'll ever move, or the job will go away" ? So, instead of getting your job outsourced, you outsourced yourself to another area, that didn't have that job. I mean, at least you aren't blaming the system for it, so I'll give you that.

The problem is the people, not the system, because the people are the ones that determine how the system works. You haven't actually mentioned the problem tho.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

wait, there might actually be hope after all.

Occupy Protesters Mobilize for Obama's Visit - NYTimes.com

The movement was never meant to support Obama. He's the one who jumped on what he saw as an occasion. It makes sense when you think about it. Even though the movement is about counter-acting corporate and government greed, corruption and collusion, maybe there wasn't enough focus on the government's blame in the whole mess. But the movement's always been apolitical. Heck I remember going down to my local chapter. I brought up the unhealthy relation between Goldman Sachs and Obama a few times, and I'm still alive! *gasp*

Originally Posted by russianrocket

The problem is the people, not the system, because the people are the ones that determine how the system works. You haven't actually mentioned the problem tho.

I have very little input into how the system works. And a lot of people feel exactly the same way. Sorry, but the problem is the system.