Should Corporal Punishments Be Brought Back In Schools?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by garentee

Maintaining discipline is one thing.. corporal punishment a far different thing... It is not ok to hit kids...end of story. Discipline can be any number of things..

Ya. It can be effective in getting them to be quiet...but it's still not right to use fear as a method of training compliance into a young person...whether you are a teacher or a parent.

There are better ways, than taking your own frustrations and lack of control out on someone who isn't doing what you want them to. I'm not saying it is an easy job being an educator...it's not, but that is the job they signed up for and they can at least learn how to control themselves and find a more intelligent method of introducing gentle discipline, that works, on the students.

How about making the class more 'fun' so kids actually WANT to learn, and don't feel the need to distract themselves because they are bored shitless?

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I find it hard to imagine a single moment when physical punishment could be done with love, compassion and a sincere desire to help the victim. In some cases I can see how it could be used to save someone else's life, with compassion for the victim. But I don't see how anyone can use physical punishment with compassion.

Actually I think practically all punishment comes from negativity rather than compassion! I know in the case of children it only serves to establish a hierarchy (based on strength), something humans do not actually need to interact in an orderly way.

I've seen it done with the purest of motives as far as I can discern, but the motives don't change the consequences. If you institutionalize something like this, it -will- be abused.


That stands even if we don't touch on the problems with the punishment itself, or the dehumanizing effect of what's enforced, or the flawed learning model everyone's being forced into in the first place.

[Brutha]

I don't think maintaining discipline in a school corrupts anyone. I think the exact opposite - that continually disruptive students corrupt the educational process.

If you use another tool than physical punishment to maintain discipline that's true.

In my school there were teachers who had the personal strength to get discipline into their class and teachers who didn't.

Projecting authority is something that you can learn if you put in the effort.
The main problem is that most teachers don't get any training on projecting authority.

There are even a few tricks that can make it easier. Using pheromones would be one. A heave dose will make some students feel theatened but if the teacher's behavior is congruent with the authoritive perception he will have authority.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Brutha

There are even a few tricks that can make it easier. Using pheromones would be one. A heave dose will make some students feel theatened but if the teacher's behavior is congruent with the authoritive perception he will have authority.

I don't think we're even discussing the same problem here. Do you really believe pheromones are a feasible solution to school gangs drugs, and disruptive students? Because those are the kinds of problems school discipline has to tackle.

[Brutha]

I don't think we're even discussing the same problem here. Do you really believe pheromones are a feasible solution to school gangs drugs, and disruptive students? Because those are the kinds of problems school discipline has to tackle.

I don't think that physical punishment is an effective way to deal with issues such as drugs and gangs.
If there a problem with illegal drugs the teacher shouldn't punish directly but get the police involved.

What does a heavy dose of pheromones like andesterone do? They make the person that get's identified as wearing them appear powerful. There a good chance that they won't like the teacher but they will give him more respect.

It more straightforward than the pheromones for attraction case as a heavy doses that scares other people doesn't create attraction.

When students see the teacher as authoritative they are less likely to disrupt him.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Brutha

I don't think that physical punishment is an effective way to deal with issues such as drugs and gangs.
If there a problem with illegal drugs the teacher shouldn't punish directly but get the police involved.

Getting the police involved doesn't really solve the problem even if only considered from the school's perspective. It's unlikely the kid's going to be incarcerated for the rest of their school career for some drugs or a gang affiliation, and one way or another the justice system is going to insist the kid goes back to school. So not dealing with it at the school level simply kicks the can down the road.

[Brutha]

Getting the police involved doesn't really solve the problem even if only considered from the school's perspective. It's unlikely the kid's going to be incarcerated for the rest of their school career for some drugs or a gang affiliation, and one way or another the justice system is going to insist the kid goes back to school.

I don't think that given a kid physical punishments will magically turn a drug addict into a person who doesn't take drugs.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by Cado

If you've designed a school system where kids need to be hit
in order to listen you have failed. In the US we currently run off the prussian model
which was more or less designed to break students, turn them into good soldiers and factory workers,
instead of educating them.
it's entirely counter-intuitive to how we pick up skills in other areas of our lives.

And yet somehow the kids are the problem. Quite the world we live in.

Yes, the world is daily becoming more insane!

Of course I realized even as a 13 year old, immigrating into the USA:
just how insane, & what a colossal failure, in "educating" the USA is.

Thank God for intelligent Homeschooling.
and our children, consistently TOPping out the annual Test-scores,
so the public schools' scores aren't even further down the toilet.

Children should never be hit! - they should be
*treasured* for the Bright little Sunbeams they verily are!
.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Brutha

I don't think that given a kid physical punishments will magically turn a drug addict into a person who doesn't take drugs.

Most younger kids involved in drugs are not addicts. There's a window of opportunity.

[Acting Like Godot]

Where I come from -

corporal punishment is permissible for boys, not girls.

The rule is that the teacher himself cannot administer the punishment. He needs to report the student and the matter to the principal. The principal may or may not agree on corporal punishment - he will consult with the Discipline Master. If the principal considers this a suitable case for corporal punishment, the punishment is done not by the teacher, but by the Discipline Master.

This process eliminates the problem of angry teachers venting their frustration on a student. The fact that the matter has to be formally reported, and independently evaluated, takes care of that process.

I just checked with my 9-year-old son. He says that in the past three years, he has only known of one student who got corporal punishment. So while the practice exists, it is used very selectively.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Where I come from -

corporal punishment is permissible for boys, not girls.

The rule is that the teacher himself cannot administer the punishment. He needs to report the student and the matter to the principal. The principal may or may not agree on corporal punishment - he will consult with the Discipline Master. If the principal considers this a suitable case for corporal punishment, the punishment is done not by the teacher, but by the Discipline Master.

This process eliminates the problem of angry teachers venting their frustration on a student. The fact that the matter has to be formally reported, and independently evaluated, takes care of that process.

I just checked with my 9-year-old son. He says that in the past three years, he has only known of one student who got corporal punishment. So while the practice exists, it is used very selectively.

Should never be used. EVER..

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Where I come from -

corporal punishment is permissible for boys, not girls.

The rule is that the teacher himself cannot administer the punishment. He needs to report the student and the matter to the principal. The principal may or may not agree on corporal punishment - he will consult with the Discipline Master. If the principal considers this a suitable case for corporal punishment, the punishment is done not by the teacher, but by the Discipline Master.

This process eliminates the problem of angry teachers venting their frustration on a student. The fact that the matter has to be formally reported, and independently evaluated, takes care of that process.

I just checked with my 9-year-old son. He says that in the past three years, he has only known of one student who got corporal punishment. So while the practice exists, it is used very selectively.

Sounds like they've got them all good and terrified so no one would dare do a thing to upset the apple cart.

Fear as a method of control is a primitive way to keep people in line. It may work but it's a very unevolved way to approach things.

[Acting Like Godot]

Yes, and it would be completely unnecessary if all kids were nice, peaceful, cooperative individuals.

Problem is that out of 1,000 kids, there's always that one or two kids who will happily punch another kid on the nose or stab him in the eye with a pencil.

And who sneers at you when you give him the lovey-dovey "personal development" talk.

[Brutha]

Most younger kids involved in drugs are not addicts. There's a window of opportunity.

Administering physical pain might make a student less likely to take drugs while in school but I doubt it will make the student stop to take drugs on weekends.
Especially because he wants to prove to himself that the teacher can't control him through force.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Yes, and it would be completely unnecessary if all kids were nice, peaceful, cooperative individuals.

Problem is that out of 1,000 kids, there's always that one or two kids who will happily punch another kid on the nose or stab him in the eye with a pencil.

And who sneers at you when you give him the lovey-dovey "personal development" talk.

Obviously "lovey dovey" PD talk isn't going to work on those individual kids either, and I'm not saying it's an easy job at all. I wouldn't know how to handle a situation like that if I were the teacher.

If a child is being violent though, and violence is then administered to punish them and make them afraid of doing it again, doesn't that just continue the cycle of violence? Isn't it just priming them for more of the same as they get older?

I don't know...I am of the attitude that in the adult world, there are certain personalities that only respond to the language of violence, and that you need to be able to adapt to that if you want to get your message through.

Now, those particular people started off as kids somewhere and were probably the same, and perhaps that is the only way to deal with extreme cases like that, but for everyone else who is only being disruptive, as annoying as that is for the teacher it is still no excuse to unleash violence on them.

I don't know, it's a real challenge to know how to handle them, individually. I don't envy teachers in this respect.

[cheesedip1]

Do people really expect kids to want to learn stuff they might not even WANT to learn? And since most people have to school by law, they HAVE to be in school.

So, that being said, when the kids get bored of the school work, can you blame them?

There's a difference with extreme behaviors, but the whole system is flawed to being with.



Being punished for not wanting to learn. What a joke.


(Insert angry face here) lol

[hervens]

I think a lot of the posters here who are against corporal punishment have never been to a poorly rated actual high school in a lower class neighborhood.

I for instance, went to a pretty bad gang heavy high school. I remembered there was this one kid who used to come drunk to class pretty much everyday. He was 2 years behind, and he would usually sit in the back of the classroom and just fool around with all his friends. Whenever he was there, the class was almost unteachable. He had no intention of learning whatsoever, he did not want to be here, and did not care for his diploma. Him and his friends used to pop up random jokes at the teacher, confront the teacher head on, asks random questions, and so on. Now, not only he was hurting himself, but him and his friends were also penalizing me, and the 20 other students who actually wanted to graduate.

Now, to assign some sort of corporal punishment to this child, or at least expel him from the school would provide a major benefit to the classroom, and permit the rests of the students to learn the material.

I realized how much of an impact these "misbehaved" students actually had on the classroom when I was moved to the honor classes in my final year due to my grades, and they were no longer there. I felt I was learning 4 - 5 times as much. The classroom was no longer noisy, all the students there really wanted to learn, there was a different enthusiasm and vibe in the classroom. That pushed me to study even harder just to keep up.

All this proves that I honestly believe that corporal punishment should be imposed on students who simply do not want to learn, and prevents the teacher from doing her job. Although it's not guaranteed to help the student in question, at least it'll impose some sort of discipline in the classroom, and enforce what school was made for in the first place: A place of learning, and not a daycare.