Wall Street Protests

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Peterw

Start here - Forex Training Online: Learn Foreign Exchange (FX) Currency Trading

Let me know if you have any questions - also Nojobrob and snerp know a thing or 2

Thanks. NojobRob was supposed to be my mentor, but he flaked out on me.

I gave up a few months ago as I just couldn't make sense of any of it, the language, the graphs...I'm an artist for goodness sake. This isn't right brain stuff.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Peterw

Let me know if you have any questions - also Nojobrob and snerp know a thing or 2

Aww, they like me

I've started doing a trading blog/forum too - it'd be cool if some PDFSP folks wanted to stop by and make the forum not look like a wasteland

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by elucidate

This isn't right brain stuff.

Well, it sort of is and sort of isn't. A lot of finance is math, and being technically and mathematically adept is a big help at becoming a trader. But there's a lot of pattern recognition and creative insight involved too.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

Well, it sort of is and sort of isn't. A lot of finance is math, and being technically and mathematically adept is a big help at becoming a trader. But there's a lot of pattern recognition and creative insight involved too.

Well, I'm all for utilizing both hemispheres of the brain...that's what balance is all about. I actually became quite interested in math after I finished school, though I detested it while I was there, typically.

I'll check out your blog, thanks.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Well, I'm all for utilizing both hemispheres of the brain...that's what balance is all about. I actually became quite interested in math after I finished school, though I detested it while I was there, typically.

I'll check out your blog, thanks.

Well, so far it contains 2 posts. It might be a bit new But I do intend to update it regularly for at least a year or so and see how much interest there is.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Why is it always " we must hurt these people"?

Why do something for the sole reason to hurt someone?

Why not, learn to use the system, and then use the money to help people. Set up college funds. Maybe setup a foundation to guide people in becoming a business man?

No, we must stick it to the man! We gotta hit them where it hurts! Make them all pay! FIGHT THE SYSTEM!

Who said anything about hurting them? People just want what they've taken-not earned, taken. We're stuck with paying off the trillions of dollars they got from the government. Are you saying we should just shut up and be happy about that?

I'm so glad our tax money is being used to buy them another private island. Families are out on the streets, people can't retire, my generation can't find work, but man it just warms my heart that they get to sleep on a bed made of solid gold every night.

Protesting is using the system. Speaking up is using the system. Not doing so isn't a more effective use of it. We have a right to speak out in the political arena, and if our politicians aren't listening to us I'd love to know what you would suggest we do instead.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Peterw

I think this would have more of an effect than protesting..

There's only one way to really hurt these people :/

In case you missed the comment I was referring to.

Originally Posted by Cado

Who said anything about hurting them? People just want what they've taken-not earned, taken. We're stuck with paying off the trillions of dollars they got from the government. Are you saying we should just shut up and be happy about that?

I'm so glad our tax money is being used to buy them another private island. Families are out on the streets, people can't retire, my generation can't find work, but man it just warms my heart that they get to sleep on a bed made of solid gold every night.

Protesting is using the system. Speaking up is using the system. Not doing so isn't a more effective use of it. We have a right to speak out in the political arena, and if our politicians aren't listening to us I'd love to know what you would suggest we do instead.

Yet again, you mention the government, and what the government did, but no it's all corporate fault. With out the governments ability to do that, corporations would not have the ability to take the money.

Who are you to say who earned what? They spent millions on lobbyist, so maybe they DID earn it. They created the business from nothing, so maybe the DID earn it. Who says that the protesters earned anything that they are trying to get out of this? It's all personal opinion, on both sides.

No, we shouldn't shut up and be happy. We should make government SMALLER so that they can't give out money like they do. You are putting the cart before the horse. The chicken before the egg. With out one, there can't be the other.

The only thing I've been trying to say, is that they are protesting against the wrong thing, and they are trying to get the wrong people to do what they want done. You think wallstreet gives a crap? As I've said before, what would work the best, is to join then, and do it honestly, and use the money for better reasons.

You, are just anti rich. You are inflating these people to god hood. Gold beds? If that wasn't a biased comment, I've never seen one.

Protesting isn't using the system. What system is run by protests?

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

In case you missed the comment I was referring to.


Yet again, you mention the government, and what the government did, but no it's all corporate fault. With out the governments ability to do that, corporations would not have the ability to take the money.

Who are you to say who earned what? They spent millions on lobbyist, so maybe they DID earn it. They created the business from nothing, so maybe the DID earn it. Who says that the protesters earned anything that they are trying to get out of this? It's all personal opinion, on both sides.

No, we shouldn't shut up and be happy. We should make government SMALLER so that they can't give out money like they do. You are putting the cart before the horse. The chicken before the egg. With out one, there can't be the other.

The only thing I've been trying to say, is that they are protesting against the wrong thing, and they are trying to get the wrong people to do what they want done. You think wallstreet gives a crap? As I've said before, what would work the best, is to join then, and do it honestly, and use the money for better reasons.

You, are just anti rich. You are inflating these people to god hood. Gold beds? If that wasn't a biased comment, I've never seen one.

Protesting isn't using the system. What system is run by protests?

A few random thoughts come to mind right off the bat..
The corporations are the government..
Protesting is absolutely using the system.. it is called the first amendment.. freedom of speech.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by garentee

A few random thoughts come to mind right off the bat..
The corporations are the government..
Protesting is absolutely using the system.. it is called the first amendment.. freedom of speech.

Again, chicken/egg cart/horse

Corporations wouldn't have the same power, if it wasn't for the government. The corporations aren't government, they just have a lot of pull, and the government has enough power to be able to gives benefits for those corporations. End the power, and you end the power struggle. Take away bullets, and the gun is useless.

Free speech, yes. I've never said they aren't allowed to do it. They obviously are being allowed to do it. Until they start shitting on cop cars, and making a mess out of everything.

So, what isn't the corporation allowed to do, and why aren't they allowed to do it? Are they not allowed to have pull in government? Fine, don't let government be allowed to give them benefits.

The government shouldn't give benefits to these people either. But I have a feeling that most of them would be very unhappy with that.

[russianrocket]

Found a picture that I really liked.

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

No, we shouldn't shut up and be happy. We should make government SMALLER so that they can't give out money like they do.

Despite the rhetoric, neither dems or reps want this. Actions speak louder than words. What are people supposed to do if smaller government is really what they want?

[MariconesUnited]

Great picture. I suppose if we are to protest wall street we must do it naked to have any kind of credibility. Because the mass production of goods is truly what people are protesting.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

Great picture. I suppose if we are to protest wall street we must do it naked to have any kind of credibility. Because the mass production of goods is truly what people are protesting.

They are protesting corporations, which produce the goods they live on.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Found a picture that I really liked.

The point you are making is that these people are all wanting to topple these corporations whilst simultaneously buying the products, right.

You think they couldn't do without them, right?

Somehow I think if you pointed out to them their hypocrisy here there would be no hesitation to strip down naked and throw everything in a pile and burn it (maybe they'd have trouble parting with the cameras and iphones yeah)

I don't know? Products are stuffed down peoples throats via advertising, and yes, it is they who buy them. Does that mean they have to sit quietly while these people shaft them?

A way to protest would be to not buy their products in the first place.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

The point you are making is that these people are all wanting to topple these corporations whilst simultaneously buying the products, right.

You think they couldn't do without them, right?

Somehow I think if you pointed out to them their hypocrisy here there would be no hesitation to strip down naked and throw everything in a pile and burn it (maybe they'd have trouble parting with the cameras and iphones yeah)

I don't know? Products are stuffed down peoples throats via advertising, and yes, it is they who buy them. Does that mean they have to sit quietly while these people shaft them?

A way to protest would be to not buy their products in the first place.

I see it as a violent protest, protesting war. Trying to take away peoples guns, by threatening to shoot them. Defending animal rights while wearing a pair of leather pants. So on and so forth.

If they didn't have corporate products, they'd never get to this point in the first place. They've been gorging on the forbidden apple, and now are mad at the tree for producing so much for them to eat.

I really had to put a lot into coming up with this analogies : D

PS. nothing is shoved down anyone's throats. Their choice to live in the modern world, and use those products, which ironically is the medium for advertising said products. Don't watch tv, and don't stray to far on the internet, and barely any ads will be "shoved down your throat". And in the end, it's still peoples CHOICES, and what really annoys me about this society, is that we blame everyone but ourselves.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

They are protesting corporations, which produce the goods they live on.

I highly doubt that people are protesting the fact that corporations exist, They are just sick of the favoritism and crony capitalism that comes from them being in bed with Politicians. here is an article that I found really interesting and informative...Occupy Wall Street: Beyond the Caricatures - Reason Magazine

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I see it as a violent protest, protesting war. Trying to take away peoples guns, by threatening to shoot them. Defending animal rights while wearing a pair of leather pants. So on and so forth.

If they didn't have corporate products, they'd never get to this point in the first place. They've been gorging on the forbidden apple, and now are mad at the tree for producing so much for them to eat.

I see what you're saying, and you're right to a degree, except that's not what they are mad at the tree for, and you know it. If they were protesting the workers rights in sweat shops whilst wearing these things then you would have a clear argument.

I really had to put a lot into coming up with this analogies : D

Well I for one appreciate the effort.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by elucidate

A way to protest would be to not buy their products in the first place.

Show me where I can buy any of those items from any entity that's not a corporation, and I will.

I think the image is a marvelous illustration of how corporations have come to infiltrate veritably every aspect of everyone's life. At last, the corporations finally rule the world.

With the government's perennial legal and financial assistance, of course.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

Show me where I can buy any of those items from any entity that's not a corporation, and I will.

I think the image is a marvelous illustration of how corporations have come to infiltrate veritably every aspect of everyone's life. At last, the corporations finally rule the world.

With the government's perennial legal and financial assistance, of course.

There aren't places like that. But, it's your choice to buy them in the first place.

I wanted some parts for my car, but I didn't like any of the companies, and the prices were too high. Guess what I did? That's right. I started to produce my own parts, and now I have my own company.

If you want a car, learn to build a car.

want a house, learn to build a house.

So on and so forth.

They haven't infiltrated anything. We've allowed them into our lives. Once again, the blame is pushed to anyone but us

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

If you want a car, learn to build a car.

want a house, learn to build a house.

So on and so forth.

Not exactly a practical approach.

You have just sent a post to this forum, relying on your Internet Service Provider, your iPad and your electricity supplier.

Try building those things on your own.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Not exactly a practical approach.

You have just sent a post to this forum, relying on your Internet Service Provider, your iPad and your electricity supplier.

Try building those things on your own.

I choose to use them, and I'm not the one complaining about big bad corporations.

No one forces anyone to use internet service or buy an iPad or use electricity. There are plenty of people who live their entire lives with out any of those things. But guess what... people want the comforts and luxury of the modern world.

Try again.


PS. what happened to your LOA?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Don't watch tv, and don't stray to far on the internet, and barely any ads will be "shoved down your throat". And in the end, it's still peoples CHOICES, and what really annoys me about this society, is that we blame everyone but ourselves.

Uh, did you not notice the part where I said "yes, it's peoples choice to buy them"?

I agree that we blame everyone else but ourselves, and it annoys me too...that wasn't what I was doing though. In saying "yes, it's peoples choice to buy them", that's blatantly saying it's their responsability that they do, right?

[garentee]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

There aren't places like that. But, it's your choice to buy them in the first place.

I wanted some parts for my car, but I didn't like any of the companies, and the prices were too high. Guess what I did? That's right. I started to produce my own parts, and now I have my own company.

If you want a car, learn to build a car.

want a house, learn to build a house.

So on and so forth.

They haven't infiltrated anything. We've allowed them into our lives. Once again, the blame is pushed to anyone but us

I agree with your point here, but that ignores the reality is that the SYSTEM is the problem.. The system is set up so that corporate entities are favored...If you kiss corporate Arse you are rewarded... Why do you think Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich and Ralph Nader get so little media attention? They are not drinking the Kool aid...
you march to the beat of your own drum.. and for that I respect you and it does take a lot of people with the balls to start their own company etc to make this a fair economy... unfortunately the big dogs do not play fair and definitely do not respect people, the environment, and definitely not competition..they respect their wallets and that is it and will do ANYTHING to make a buck...

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

Show me where I can buy any of those items from any entity that's not a corporation, and I will.

Try Thailand!

You won't be getting originals, and they may not even last very long before they break, but it's an option.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Cado

Who said anything about hurting them? People just want what they've taken-not earned, taken. We're stuck with paying off the trillions of dollars they got from the government. Are you saying we should just shut up and be happy about that?

I'm so glad our tax money is being used to buy them another private island. Families are out on the streets, people can't retire, my generation can't find work, but man it just warms my heart that they get to sleep on a bed made of solid gold every night.

Actually, CDS spreads on Morgan Stanley are at an all-time high, higher than during 2008 when Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns fell.

What does that mean?

It means that within the financial markets, Morgan Stanley is assessed right now as having the highest probability of going bankrupt than it has ever had.

If or when MS goes bust, these protestors will get what they want ... Only to realize that it isn't really what they want. A new wave of panic, job losses, unemployment etc.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

I think the image is a marvelous illustration of how corporations have come to infiltrate veritably every aspect of everyone's life. At last, the corporations finally rule the world.

With the government's perennial legal and financial assistance, of course.

I agree with RR here. They didn't infiltrate our lives, we let them in. People are like magpies...they like shiny things and if the guy next door has one, well you better believe they gotsta have one too.

Mobile phones aren't just a luxury, they can save your life, so even though we lived quite well without them, now they are here I'm sure there isn't anyone who would say their lives aren't a little better for them.

Of course, subliminal suggestions in advertising help things along somewhat.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

PS. what happened to your LOA?

My LOA is serving me very well right now.

Governments around the world are punishing banks with a wide range of new and far-reaching legislative and regulatory measures which they themselves have not thought through properly.

These measures are very complicated and very messy. As this is all new stuff, there aren't many people in the world who have experience dealing with such issues.

Meanwhile, I work in a bank and am personally involved in working out and working through these measures in my part of the world. This really means that I've become more indispensable than before, and in fact my market value is probably going up. (Other banks will become interested in hiring me and my expertise).

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I agree with RR here. They didn't infiltrate our lives, we let them in. People are like magpies...they like shiny things and if the guy next door has one, well you better believe they gotsta have one too.

Mobile phones aren't just a luxury, they can save your life, so even though we lived quite well without them, now they are here I'm sure there isn't anyone who would say their lives aren't a little better for them.

Of course, subliminal suggestions in advertising help things along somewhat.

I dunno. Are our lives better? Could we possibly say that the negatives have out weighed the positives? How about smart phones? Physical human contact. Actually speaking in front of a person. Going over the other persons house. Texting and calling while driving. No longer being able to have any freedom, because you are expected to always be near your phone, and if you aren't, you are ignoring them. So on and so forth. It's a tough call, on whether our lives are better or not.

They could have easily created something to save our lives. No need for super phones. Even old phones, that have no features, or are even hooked up to a network, can call 911. Everything else, is a luxury.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I dunno. Are our lives better? Could we possibly say that the negatives have out weighed the positives? How about smart phones? Physical human contact. Actually speaking in front of a person. Going over the other persons house. Texting and calling while driving. No longer being able to have any freedom, because you are expected to always be near your phone, and if you aren't, you are ignoring them. So on and so forth. It's a tough call, on whether our lives are better or not.

They could have easily created something to save our lives. No need for super phones. Even old phones, that have no features, or are even hooked up to a network, can call 911. Everything else, is a luxury.

Oh I'm in agreeance here as well. Technology is having the effect of making people even lazier than they already were, and people are craving more human contact than ever before because of these things.

This is why I say computers are the devil and I didn't buy a phone for many years, until I moved to the city and it made sense to have one in case I got in trouble as a single woman.

I hardly ever answer my phone because I don't like a thing having so much control over my life, but most people are so mesmerized by theirs, and they can't just make eye contact with another human being and have a light conversation on public transport, they have to be staring at the screen, giving their energy away to it. It's making us all even more isolated in a way whilst simultaneously tricking us into thinking we are "more connected".

I was speaking mainly about the safety factor and getting stuck in the middle of nowhere at night or scenarios like that, and as I said once before, my first phone, which I bought with much reluctance, was a brick of a thing and I didn't mind departing with it at all if it came down to it. There have been one or two scenarios where I have genuinely been grateful to have mine at hand, though the rest of the time I hate phones.

It's funny how people have forgotten they can use the phone booth if they leave their phone at home, or lose it. They have a little hissy fit instead. It's amusing to watch.

We don't need all the features, people are just easily impressed and think it makes them appear impressive, and let themselves be manipulated into thinking they need them and their lives will be better for having them, and forget that they managed perfectly well without them before they came into existence.

So yeah, it's definitely debateable as to whether they have actually improved our lives any.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Again, chicken/egg cart/horse

Corporations wouldn't have the same power, if it wasn't for the government. The corporations aren't government, they just have a lot of pull, and the government has enough power to be able to gives benefits for those corporations. End the power, and you end the power struggle. Take away bullets, and the gun is useless.

Free speech, yes. I've never said they aren't allowed to do it. They obviously are being allowed to do it. Until they start shitting on cop cars, and making a mess out of everything.

So, what isn't the corporation allowed to do, and why aren't they allowed to do it? Are they not allowed to have pull in government? Fine, don't let government be allowed to give them benefits.

The government shouldn't give benefits to these people either. But I have a feeling that most of them would be very unhappy with that.

Let me put it this way.

Big corporations are very international. They exist to do business, i.e make money. They will go wherever they think they can do business, and make money.

Governments do differ, in their attitudes towards corporations. Some countries are much friendlier to corporations, than others. The risk of unfriendly governments is what corporations typically refer to as "political risk".

If a government becomes less friendly, that is, if the political risk is too high, then corporations will simply go elsewhere (or they will do less business in that country). When they leave, the country will see job losses and the government will get to collect less in taxes - from the corporation itself, and from the people it would have employed.

Other losers include the many businesses which could have made money from the big corporation. Eg its landlord; its suppliers; its IT services provider etc.