The Cult of the Job

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Figuring stuff out like filing self employment taxes, setting up a business or whether or not you even want to use money to support yourself (imagine that!) is all menial and incidental detail that is usually quite subjective.

You missed the point. The problem is not the paperwork of going into business. Anyone literate can deal with that. The problem is THE LACK OF INCOME FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. That is the problem which prevents people from going into business for themselves, and any article that advocates self-employment over a job which does not address or at least acknowledge that problem is simply pissing in the wind.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

You missed the point. The problem is not the paperwork of going into business. Anyone literate can deal with that. The problem is THE LACK OF INCOME FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. That is the problem which prevents people from going into business for themselves, and any article that advocates self-employment over a job which does not address or at least acknowledge that problem is simply pissing in the wind.

This is very true..

[Mounds]

There are a lot of options for bridging the gap between employed and self-employed. That could mean saving your money to bridge that gap, slashing your expenses to the bone and finding a part-time job, building your business on the side, or what-have-you. I'm not even sure what article we're talking about (whether it's the one in the OP or a different one) but to me, making money in the meantime is a given.

I find it interesting that some people want detailed ideas of what to do and others know intuitively that they'd figure it out. That just shows you how we're all wired differently. For the people who want more detail, imagine you've set that goal of becoming self-employed and work backwards. What steps did you take to get there? What obstacles did you run into?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

You missed the point. The problem is not the paperwork of going into business. Anyone literate can deal with that. The problem is THE LACK OF INCOME FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. That is the problem which prevents people from going into business for themselves, and any article that advocates self-employment over a job which does not address or at least acknowledge that problem is simply pissing in the wind.

Maybe you should write the article that explains it, then.

[Acting Like Godot]

I think that one plausible way is:

(1) Be a full-time employee;

(2) Launch your own business on the side (basically juggling two jobs at the same time);

(3) When you have got the sideline going steadily, quit the full-time job and make the sideline your full-time thing.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Most jobs are designed in such a way that you don't have to think up your own way to give something to the world. The job is structured so you have tasks to complete, rewards for completing the tasks and it's all very neat and tidy requiring little if any imagination juice squeezed outta your melon.

In my experience, this is true for many people, only because they want it that way.

On the other hand, if you want to bring creativity and innovatiion to your job, it will morph along with your thoughts.

I will give you a simple example. About a year ago, my wife took a part-time job in a hospital organisation. The job description was that she would draft and review legal contracts, not much more than that (she is a lawyer).

Today, her role has expanded far beyond that. She is bringing scientists and doctors and pharmaceutical companies together to launch new medical projects. She is discussing initiatives with the government to review laws relating to organ transplants and other ethical issues. She is raising millions of dollars in charitable donations, for the construction of a new children's hospital. She is building new collaborative relationships between academics (in the university) and medical practitioners (in the hospital), for research projects.

[Acting Like Godot]

To be fair, she has an advantage that most people do not.

She knows the Law of Attraction as well as I do. So she has great creative power to shape and bend her reality.

[WarrenG]

Related:

Are jobs obsolete? - CNN.com

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I think that one plausible way is:

(1) Be a full-time employee;

(2) Launch your own business on the side (basically juggling two jobs at the same time);

(3) When you have got the sideline going steadily, quit the full-time job and make the sideline your full-time thing.

This is certainly a feasible strategy since it provides a solution to the income gap, temporary access to benefits that can only be bought collectively, and capital to fund the new enterprise.

So why do these articles never advocate it? Maybe because working twice as hard isn't as appealing to the armchair entrepreneur as a "leisure track".

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

This is certainly a feasible strategy since it provides a solution to the income gap, temporary access to benefits that can only be bought collectively, and capital to fund the new enterprise.

So why do these articles never advocate it? Maybe because working twice as hard isn't as appealing to the armchair entrepreneur as a "leisure track".

The whole point, is that working a full time job, and having access to all the benefits and income, doesn't motivate a person enough as not having those things.

But yes, people don't wanna work twice as hard.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

This is certainly a feasible strategy since it provides a solution to the income gap, temporary access to benefits that can only be bought collectively, and capital to fund the new enterprise.

So why do these articles never advocate it? Maybe because working twice as hard isn't as appealing to the armchair entrepreneur as a "leisure track".

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

the doer of deeds

Apparently you missed that the article is about "the leisure track". What we've got here is a doer of very few deeds asking you to join her.

For all I know this woman's greatest achievement in life is pointing the Wikipedia article on "anti-work" at her website. With a resume like that, who wouldn't be impressed?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

Apparently you missed that the article is about "the leisure track". What we've got here is a doer of very few deeds asking you to join her.

For all I know this woman's greatest achievement in life is pointing the Wikipedia article on "anti-work" at her website. With a resume like that, who wouldn't be impressed?

This comes from someone whose contribution in life is saying article writers aren't doing it as well as he thinks they should. Forgive me if I find your words hollow.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

This comes from someone whose contribution in life is saying article writers aren't doing it as well as he thinks they should. Forgive me if I find your words hollow.

OK, have fun with that. Thus far all you've done is snark and criticize me without offering any defense of how the article in question could possibly be correct ie. how one could simply quit their job and be "on the leisure track".

If you hold such a low opinion of those discussing the merits of the article (or lack thereof), why are you one of them? Why not just leave the thread to those who do want to discuss it.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

The problem is not the paperwork of going into business. Anyone literate can deal with that. The problem is THE LACK OF INCOME FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.

Short answer: Deal with it!

Long answer: The same solutions that you should be coming up with to become self employed and working from a more creative way of providing value should be applied to the 'problem' of having a lack of income for an extended period of time.

In fact, having a 'lack of income' is a false excuse because it is totally possible to begin creative value providing endeavors while still working at a job which does not tap into your creative potential. There is no law of physics wherein it is stated that to pursue a creative career path one must undergo a lack of income for an extended period of time. Hell, even in situations where you do lack income for an extended period of time there are still plenty of ways to live regardless of having not a penny to your name. You could try out being homeless for example (not as bad as you'd think if you're an optimist!)

There are infinite ways to deal with the so called problem of a lack of income and the solutions are in no way limited to having to solve that problem by getting income. That is not a real solution anyway, it is simply repeating the cycle that caused the problem in the first place.

[Acting Like Godot]

You see, this is exactly what Snerp is talking about ....

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Short answer: Deal with it!

Long answer: The same solutions that you should be coming up with to become self employed and working from a more creative way of providing value should be applied to the 'problem' of having a lack of income for an extended period of time.

In fact, having a 'lack of income' is a false excuse because it is totally possible to begin creative value providing endeavors while still working at a job which does not tap into your creative potential. There is no law of physics wherein it is stated that to pursue a creative career path one must undergo a lack of income for an extended period of time. Hell, even in situations where you do lack income for an extended period of time there are still plenty of ways to live regardless of having not a penny to your name. You could try out being homeless for example (not as bad as you'd think if you're an optimist!)

There are infinite ways to deal with the so called problem of a lack of income and the solutions are in no way limited to having to solve that problem by getting income. That is not a real solution anyway, it is simply repeating the cycle that caused the problem in the first place.

.... the above text is full of porridge words, with no concrete examples or suggestions.

What do I mean by concrete examples or suggestions? Ok, let's put it this way. Let's say you, Kaleidoskopic Vision, yes you, ... YOU .... wish to stop quit working, earn income and be on the leisure track, starting tomorrow. So give an example.

What steps will YOU exactly take?
What will you do in the morning?
What will you do in the afternoon?
What will you do in the evening?
Where will you go?
Who will you meet?
What will you do with your two hands?
Where will your money come from?
To pay your utility bills?
To pay your groceries bill?
If you want to be homeless, where will you sleep?
What will you pack with you?
How long will those supplies last?
How long do you plan on doing that?
If you are going to provide a service, what is that service?
How often will you provide that service?
How much do you expect to be paid?
How many times do you expect provide such a service per day or per week or per month?
Where do you find the customers?
How will you persuade them to use your service?
What are your strengths in this area?
What is your marketing strategy?
What resources, tools, skills or equipment will you need to provide this service?
Where are you going to get them?
How much will each of them cost?

And what happens the following week, or month, or six months, or a year later? What's the plan?

Please do not give an answer using phrases such as "solutions', "more creative", "providing value", "creative potential", "plenty of ways", "infinite ways". Say exactly what you will do; where you will go; HOW you will provide value; WHAT you will be creative about; state a SPECIFIC "way" or "solution" etc etc.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

There are no logistics to becoming your own boss. The options are literally limited only by your imagination. There are zero concrete steps beyond that.

Here are some concrete steps for you to consider.


Why become self-employed
What kind of business
Training
How to trade
Finance
Book-keeping and accounting
Income tax
Value Added Tax
Premises
Business rates
Health and safety
Insurance
Pensions
Immigration status
Employing other people
National insurance contributions
Benefits and tax credits
Trading names and licences
Who can give further advice


Why become self-employed
There is encouragement from the government for people to become self-employed and at first it seems attractive, especially if you have recently become unemployed or redundant. Although one of the main attractions of becoming self-employed is no longer having to work for somebody else there are several disadvantages you should consider. These include not being certain of having a regular income, having to arrange your own sick pay and pension and probably having to work long hours.

What kind of business
If you are considering self-employment and do not already have an idea of what you want to do, you could consider something which uses your experience or skills or something which you have previously done as a hobby. As well as the organisations listed in this information (see under heading Who can give further advice) you may be able to get ideas by looking at books and leaflets in the local library or job centre.

TrainingTraining in either practical or management skills may be necessary. Training is available from a variety of sources such as courses run by the organisations listed in this information (see under heading Who can give further advice), evening classes at local colleges, books.

See Government employment schemes.

How to trade

If you are considering self-employment, you will need to discuss with one of the organisations listed under heading Who can give further advice the different ways of trading and which would be most appropriate for your business. The business could take one of three legal forms:-

a sole trader. This is the simplest way of starting a business
a partnership. This is similar to a sole trader except that two or more people run the business
a limited company. This gives the business a completely separate identity from the people who run the business. It is more complicated to set up.
In addition to one of the above legal forms, self-employment can also involve one of the following trading practices:-

a co-operative. This is a business which is collectively owned and controlled by the people who work in it. At least two people must be involved
a franchise. A franchise is an agreement which allows the person buying the franchise the right to run a branch of a business that someone else has set up.

FinanceAs a self-employed person, you will need enough money to live on as well as money to start up the business and keep it going. You may be able to get money from the following sources:-

family or friends
grants from charities or trusts
loans from banks and building societies.

Book-keeping and accountingIt is extremely important that accurate and detailed records of the business are kept. You may be able to keep your own books or employ a bookkeeper or accountant, but if you are trading as a limited company you will need the help of an accountant.

Income taxAs a self-employed person, you will be responsible for paying income tax on your earnings and will usually need the help of an accountant. There are special tax reliefs and allowances which self-employed people can claim. If you are newly self-employed, you should register with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) by calling the helpline for the Newly Self-Employed. The helpline number is: 08459 154515.

You can get more information about income tax for self-employed people from the HMRC website at: HM Revenue & Customs: Home Page.

Value Added Tax
Value Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on goods and services which is paid to HM Revenue and Customs. Whether or not a self-employed person has to pay, and in some cases has the right to choose to pay, VAT depends on the type of business and how much the business sells.

You can get more information about VAT from the website of HM Revenue and Customs at: HM Revenue & Customs: Home Page.

Premises

You could consider trading in the following ways:-

from home. This has the advantage of low costs but you will need to make sure that the tenancy agreement, mortgage agreement or title deeds of the property do not place any restrictions on business use. You may also need to get local authority planning permission
from premises you have bought or rented. You should consider how much space you need as well as heating, lighting and ventilation requirements. You need to make sure the property has been approved for business use. Planning permission may also be necessary. If you are considering buying or renting premises you should see a solicitor
from a market stall. The local authority will have details of where and when these are available and how much local markets charge
at craft fairs. The local authority will be able to give details of where and when these are held.

Business rates
Business rates have to be paid to the local authority on most business premises. These include shops, offices, warehouses and factories. In some cases, for example, in a property which contains a shop and a flat, or if you work from home, you may have to pay both business rates and council tax. Some types of business premises are exempt from rates, for example, agricultural land. For more information about business rates in England, see the government's Business Link website at Business support, information and advice | Business Link.

For more information about business rates in Wales, see the website produced jointly by the Valuation Office Agency (VOA) and the Welsh Assembly Government at: Business Link.

For more information about business rates in Northern Ireland, see the website of the Land and Property Services at: Land & Property Services | D F P (N I).

For more about business rates in Scotland, see Scottish Government guide on non-domestic rates.

For more information in England, Wales and Scotland about council tax, see Council tax.

Health and safety

As a self-employed person you have a duty to make sure that your business premises and working environment meet health and safety requirements. Further information about health and safety requirements is available from the local health and safety executive or environmental health department of the local authority. In Scotland, local authority refers to the District and Islands Council.

InsuranceDepending on the business and how you trade, you will be required by law to take out certain types of insurance. Other types of insurance are not compulsory but it is important to consider which ones are appropriate. The types of insurance you may need are:-

employer’s liability insurance. If you employ other people you must have this insurance. It provides cover for claims made by employees who are injured or become ill as a result of their employment
vehicles insurance. Vehicles used for business purposes must be insured even if already insured for private use
public liability insurance. This provides cover against claims by members of the public who have been injured or had property damaged as a result of carelessness at work by you or your employees
premises insurance. Insurance will be necessary for the premises you work from, even if you work from home and there is already a policy. This is because the insurance will usually only cover residential use
contents, stock and materials insurance. This insurance will be necessary to cover the replacement costs of stock, materials and the contents of the premises even if is work is being done from home and there is already a home contents insurance policy
health and accident insurance. These will pay a regular income or lump sum if you are unable to work because of an accident or sickness.

Pensions

As a self-employed person you will get state retirement pension if you have met the contribution conditions.

For more information about Retirement Pension, see Benefits for people over sixty.

You could also consider getting a private personal pension.

Immigration status

Setting up in business may affect your immigration status and you should therefore consult an experienced adviser before doing so. To search for details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by email, click on nearest CAB.

Employing other people

If you employ other people you will be responsible for paying wages, tax, national insurance contributions and Working Tax Credit where relevant. You will have to meet the requirements of employment law and health and safety regulations.

For more information on the responsibilities of employers, see Basic rights at work.

[splok]

I'm not really sure that I see the conflict here. Everyone has their own tolerance for risk and would need different amounts of "padding" before being comfortable ditching their job. For some people, it might be a complete replacement for their current salary for years, and for others it might be nothing at all. Obviously the people who write articles like this are more likely to trend toward the more risky side.

The writer of article lists herself as a freelance writer. Why do you somehow think it would take "AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME" for someone to replace their previous income with freelance income? especially when that's something that could have easily been started and grown while the other job was ongoing. The same with Steve's tutoring, site building etc... You say he traded one job for lots of little ones, but what do you think working for yourself is? It's not that you literally STOP working. You just find things that you can do which you can convince other people to pay you for.

For people on the other end of the risk tolerance scale, then the problem is two-fold. First, they are likely to end up delaying the "making the jump" moment permanently because the time is "never quite right", and secondly, it probably won't go all that well if they finally do make the jump since self-employment isn't always the best idea for the very risk-averse.

I think the issue isn't telling people to quit their jobs, its telling "all" people to quit their jobs. There are some people who are just going to be happier and more comfortable working within a pre-defined structure, even if they don't want to think of it that way.

For the people in the middle, I think articles like this one and like Steve's aren't so much intended to be an instruction book but more of a nudge to get your brain working on the problem. The idea is to get people that are on the edge to put some serious thought into it. Frankly, if someone can't imagine a single way to go a couple of months with no income, then they probably aren't very good candidates for self-employment.

Of course, the real problem with that way of thinking is that sometimes your job quits you. If you went to work tomorrow only to find that the company had a financial meltdown and the doors were locked and there was not even a final paycheck coming, what would you do? Would you (and your family if you have one) literally starve to death? Would you instantly be cast out into the cold and freeze to death? If you suddenly didn't have health insurance, would everyone instantly burst into flames? Do you live in a country that will refuse emergency medical care if you can't pay on the spot?

Sure, for most people, the most logical path is to just start their business on the side and they basically buy themselves out of their day-jobs once the side business is doing well enough. Most people won't do that though. They don't want to work that hard. They want funding. They want guarantees. etc etc etc. That's why it's so tempting for people to say "quit now!", because that forces action and commitment which would be unlikely to happen otherwise.

One thing everyone can do though, is to reduce your burn rate. The less money it costs you to live, the less money you need to be making to buy you out of your day job. Most people think they can't, but then, most people don't want to make the changes that are required to do so. That's fine, but those people should probably just stick to playing it "safe". The people who start their own companies need people who want to be hired

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

What steps will YOU exactly take?
What will you do in the morning?
What will you do in the afternoon?
What will you do in the evening?
Where will you go?
Who will you meet?
What will you do with your two hands?
Where will your money come from?
To pay your utility bills?
To pay your groceries bill?
If you want to be homeless, where will you sleep?
What will you pack with you?
How long will those supplies last?
How long do you plan on doing that?
If you are going to provide a service, what is that service?
How often will you provide that service?
How much do you expect to be paid?
How many times do you expect provide such a service per day or per week or per month?
Where do you find the customers?
How will you persuade them to use your service?
What are your strengths in this area?
What is your marketing strategy?
What resources, tools, skills or equipment will you need to provide this service?
Where are you going to get them?
How much will each of them cost?

And what happens the following week, or month, or six months, or a year later? What's the plan?

I think these are very good points and not thinking them through can lead to unnecessary failure when setting up a business. The first time I set up a business I didn't think through several of these things and the business fell flat on its face. I learnt and my second business was more successful. I sold my share in that one. Now I am in a full-time job and setting up two online businesses. I plan to replace the job I like with the businesses I love within the next 3 years.

A poster above mentioned that being homeless is not as bad as you think. That depends how bad you think it is, I guess. But it's not comfortable - unless you are homeless in a beautiful and peaceful area in the summer - and it's certainly not convenient when you are trying to set up a business. Where do you keep your laptop safe from the elements and thieves? Where can you work? Where do you do your laundry? And so on..

When I was unemployed a few decades ago I spent a few weeks sleeping rough under hedges etc. On a sunny day it's nice to wake up under the blue sky, but when the weather is bad, or when gangs of drunks are staggering by, only a few yards away from your head, it becomes less attractive.

[MagicalRealist]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I think that one plausible way is:

(1) Be a full-time employee;

(2) Launch your own business on the side (basically juggling two jobs at the same time);

(3) When you have got the sideline going steadily, quit the full-time job and make the sideline your full-time thing.

This is exactly what I did when I started my first business.

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

This is certainly a feasible strategy since it provides a solution to the income gap, temporary access to benefits that can only be bought collectively, and capital to fund the new enterprise.

So why do these articles never advocate it? Maybe because working twice as hard isn't as appealing to the armchair entrepreneur as a "leisure track".

Yeah, I think that's it. "Hate your job? Start a business, and therefore work at two jobs!" just isn't going to appeal to most readers.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

The whole point, is that working a full time job, and having access to all the benefits and income, doesn't motivate a person enough as not having those things.

The only way someone will be motivated to start their own business while still working a full-time job is if they have identified something they really want to do badly enough. And they have to want it badly enough to overcome all the fear and what-if worst case scenarios their chattering monkey-mind conjures up.

Most people want safety and assurances of success before they attempt anything, much less starting a business. Most people are terribly risk-averse, and will remain stuck in a rut, stagnating, because they believe it's the safest (and therefore best and smartest) option. Oh, sure--they may dream about starting their own business. Maybe they even talk about it. But until their desire to do so breaks through all their fear-based excuse-making? Forget it. It's just empty talk.

But yes, people don't wanna work twice as hard.

Well, they tend to see it as working twice as hard. Their frame of reference is the job they currently have, and how they feel about that--so when they imagine starting a business while still employed they simply imagine their current workload x2.

That's not to say that starting your own business isn't a lot of work--it is. But speaking from my own experience, self-employment never felt like anywhere near as much work as getting up every day and going to a job, giving my energy to someone else's vision.

The business I started while still employed was mine--my idea, based on my interests and expertise, and it functioned according to my rules. I dictated my own working hours and conditions. I devised my own schedule for the tasks I didn't much like doing, and my own procedures for handling them. Nobody stood over me, evaluating my performance, but me. Nobody breathed down my neck, forming judgments about my attitude. I knew exactly how well I was doing, and didn't have to prove to anyone that I was a good employee and worth retaining.

Objectively, it was a lot more work. But subjectively, it felt like much less, especially once the business was up and running and I knew what I was doing. The business was something I really enjoyed and was interested in. I was good at it. I was doing it for my own gain, on my own terms, rather than spending my days feeling like I was merely scraping by and trying to stay out of trouble while enriching someone else in the process. So the work itself, while considerable, never felt so burdensome as doing a job had.

And once I'd started one business and made it succeed, it was easy to start another when the time came. When the first business became unsustainable due to changes in the marketplace, I was able to cut my losses, close up shop, and start something else without a whole lot of fuss or worry--and it was infinitely easier than finding a new job would have been.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

You see, this is exactly what Snerp is talking about ....



.... the above text is full of porridge words, with no concrete examples or suggestions.

What do I mean by concrete examples or suggestions? Ok, let's put it this way. Let's say you, Kaleidoskopic Vision, yes you, ... YOU .... wish to stop quit working, earn income and be on the leisure track, starting tomorrow. So give an example.

What steps will YOU exactly take?
What will you do in the morning?
What will you do in the afternoon?
What will you do in the evening?
Where will you go?
Who will you meet?
What will you do with your two hands?
Where will your money come from?
To pay your utility bills?
To pay your groceries bill?
If you want to be homeless, where will you sleep?
What will you pack with you?
How long will those supplies last?
How long do you plan on doing that?
If you are going to provide a service, what is that service?
How often will you provide that service?
How much do you expect to be paid?
How many times do you expect provide such a service per day or per week or per month?
Where do you find the customers?
How will you persuade them to use your service?
What are your strengths in this area?
What is your marketing strategy?
What resources, tools, skills or equipment will you need to provide this service?
Where are you going to get them?
How much will each of them cost?

And what happens the following week, or month, or six months, or a year later? What's the plan?

Please do not give an answer using phrases such as "solutions', "more creative", "providing value", "creative potential", "plenty of ways", "infinite ways". Say exactly what you will do; where you will go; HOW you will provide value; WHAT you will be creative about; state a SPECIFIC "way" or "solution" etc etc.

ALG, the one problem with me filling out this list is that, it would only be helpful to me. Not Snerp, not you, not anyone else but me (unless someone wants to carbon copy my self employment career path). Maybe the concrete example would be helpful, but the overall idea of becoming self employed does not begin with the step by step process you detailed and those 'porridge words' are what must come first before any individualized step by step process.

Aside from that the list unfilled is a decent way to outline steps to self employment.

[Harmonium]

I'd say ALG is being pragmatic, and I can really appreciate that, given my ignorance and lack of experience of the many things he brought up. "Create value" is a given, but if you don't take the steps to deliver it and create a lifestyle including it, the concept is worthless.

KaleidoskopicVision, since ALG's approach is "decent", what would in your experience, be a more intelligent approach?

[CroMagna]

Snerp is right and ALG gave ait an honest try. They're right on. Kaleid, you are being way too vague. And homelessness would definitely suck, especially in the wintertime.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Snerp is right and ALG gave ait an honest try. They're right on. Kaleid, you are being way too vague. And homelessness would definitely suck, especially in the wintertime.

This is not a matter of right or wrong. Lots of people are doing this, and everyone has to find something that works.

[Donatas Kaulinis]

A person crazy enough could start/learn sleeping polyphasically, make adjustments with his employer and effectively work and be making his bussiness.
I'm not sure if that's possible but if there are ways to keep your concentration for long periods of time, not go mad, that would be a powerfull option.

Would working at your bussiness at night be such a downside these days?

[Acting Like Godot]

Errrr, according to the OP, self-employment is supposed to out you on the leisure track. So, no, working day and night is not supposed to be the way.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Errrr, according to the OP, self-employment is supposed to out you on the leisure track. So, no, working day and night is not supposed to be the way.

That kind of thinking is delusional, definitely. But doing your own thing and, in time, living very well? That's not a pipedream at all.

[CroMagna]

What do you mean by "doing your own thing"?

[ChrisGinsburg]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

What do you mean by "doing your own thing"?

Masturbating for a living?

[Donatas Kaulinis]

Originally Posted by ChrisGinsburg

Masturbating for a living?

You could do that selling seemen. Not a very good career personal-development wise though