London Riots Compared To Vancouver Riots

[Clint Cora]

Just saw the latest figures from the riots;

London: about 2700 arrested, almost 1300 have gone before a court judge

Vancouver: 116 arrested, ZERO have been charged and gone to court

No wonder why folks in Vancouver (and Canada) are NOT happy with these results!

Your thoughts?

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Let's see, one riot took place in lawfully lackadaisical Canada and was over a lost hockey game, the other took place in the repressive United Kingdom and was caused by... well, no one really knows what it was caused by, seems like a pot of rage just bubbled over. In Canada, milk comes in bags and the police rarely carry so much as a pistol. In the UK, a veritable tree bristling with cameras can be found on every street corner. In Vancouver, someone flipped over a car and people were very drunk. In London, rioting lasted for days, couldn't be contained by the police, fires raged, buildings were destroyed and an elderly man was beaten to death.

Yes I totally see the connection.

[Clint Cora]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

In Canada, milk comes in bags

What? You don't like milk in bags?

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Let's see, one riot took place in lawfully lackadaisical Canada and was over a lost hockey game, the other took place in the repressive United Kingdom and was caused by... well, no one really knows what it was caused by, seems like a pot of rage just bubbled over. In Canada, milk comes in bags and the police rarely carry so much as a pistol. In the UK, a veritable tree bristling with cameras can be found on every street corner. In Vancouver, someone flipped over a car and people were very drunk. In London, rioting lasted for days, couldn't be contained by the police, fires raged, buildings were destroyed and an elderly man was beaten to death.

Yes I totally see the connection.

The UK riots happened because we're too soft on criminals to the point where they expect to get away with petty crime. Most of the rioters that were interviewed said things like "We're showing the police and the rich that we can do what we want innit". Most of them didn't have a clue what they were rioting about.

Just as well those cameras caught so many of them..

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Peterw

The UK riots happened because we're too soft on criminals to the point where they expect to get away with petty crime. Most of the rioters that were interviewed said things like "We're showing the police and the rich that we can do what we want innit". Most of them didn't have a clue what they were rioting about.

Just as well those cameras caught so many of them..

That simply isn't true unless your standards for criminal punishment happen to be particularly draconian. There is major class warfare occurring in the UK right now, are you not aware of that? Showing the rich and the police that "we can do what we want innit" is not someone's way of saying "I don't know why I am here" it's their way of saying "this is a class war and we're fighting a battle here".

Personally I'm in favor of their cause. I hope they sack the Queen, that pretentious royal family and all of the nobility while they're at it. Oh and Peter, while you might be the type who would be comfortable with the authorities planting cameras in every corner of your bathroom, most of us like our privacy, safety be damned. I'm just not into exhibitionism.

Ewige blumenkraft!

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

What? You don't like milk in bags?

Liquid items being sold in bag form just gives me the heebie jeebies.

[xtremelady]

The UK riots happened because we're too soft on criminals to the point where they expect to get away with petty crime. Most of the rioters that were interviewed said things like "We're showing the police and the rich that we can do what we want innit". Most of them didn't have a clue what they were rioting about.

Just as well those cameras caught so many of them..

I agree with KaleidoskopicVision on this one in regards to a class war. I think the present government is responsible for the poor feeling victimised and marginalised (the governments consensus is they are poor because they are lazy) never mind many currently out of work right now have worked all their lives and paid taxes. A year out of work means reductions in benefit and possibility of losing your homes – just bad luck that there are not any jobs out there atm.

Young people are getting screwed every which way – no work – competition even for uni places and few training schemes. Hopes for a home of their own and starting a family are slim unless from a rich background.

Trouble is there are more discontented young people and poor than there are rich, if they decide to kick off than there is very little the police / authorities can do to stop them.

To top it off the government agencies such as police are also feeling the bites of cuts and uncertainties over jobs. Perhaps it was this which sparked off the actions leading to the riots.

I have a feeling the trouble has only just began and more will be unleashed in time.

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

That simply isn't true unless your standards for criminal punishment happen to be particularly draconian. There is major class warfare occurring in the UK right now, are you not aware of that? Showing the rich and the police that "we can do what we want innit" is not someone's way of saying "I don't know why I am here" it's their way of saying "this is a class war and we're fighting a battle here".

Personally I'm in favor of their cause. I hope they sack the Queen, that pretentious royal family and all of the nobility while they're at it. Oh and Peter, while you might be the type who would be comfortable with the authorities planting cameras in every corner of your bathroom, most of us like our privacy, safety be damned. I'm just not into exhibitionism.

Ewige blumenkraft!

I'm not going to engage with you on whatever class/British issues you've got. You obviously weren't here for it didn't experience it first hand, same for the culture that caused it either so I'll just agree to disagree.

I'd be interested to hear more about this "cause" though. Please explain to me what it is.

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by xtremelady

I agree with KaleidoskopicVision on this one in regards to a class war. I think the present government is responsible for the poor feeling victimised and marginalised (the governments consensus is they are poor because they are lazy) never mind many currently out of work right now have worked all their lives and paid taxes. A year out of work means reductions in benefit and possibility of losing your homes – just bad luck that there are not any jobs out there atm.

Young people are getting screwed every which way – no work – competition even for uni places and few training schemes. Hopes for a home of their own and starting a family are slim unless from a rich background.

Trouble is there are more discontented young people and poor than there are rich, if they decide to kick off than there is very little the police / authorities can do to stop them.

To top it off the government agencies such as police are also feeling the bites of cuts and uncertainties over jobs. Perhaps it was this which sparked off the actions leading to the riots.

I have a feeling the trouble has only just began and more will be unleashed in time.

Absolute 100% crap. I made it through the recession and built my career from nothing all starting out at the job centre. There are jobs, apprenticeships and opportunities all being done by Indians and Eastern europeans. There is no lack of opportunity just people delegating responsibility for their lives and getting upset when a recession comes along and discovering that no one will look after them but themselves.

What about the people who had their business burned down? What about people who had their homes burned down, or smashed into and ransacked while they were there?

Trouble is there are more discontented young people and poor than there are rich, if they decide to kick off than there is very little the police / authorities can do to stop them.

To top it off the government agencies such as police are also feeling the bites of cuts and uncertainties over jobs. Perhaps it was this which sparked off the actions leading to the riots.

I have a feeling the trouble has only just began and more will be unleashed in time

Do you condone the riots? Were you one of them?

[Clint Cora]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Liquid items being sold in bag form just gives me the heebie jeebies.

If you are ever hospitalized, you can always refuse the IV!

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

If you are ever hospitalized, you can always refuse the IV!

Oh dear I forgot all about IVs! Better go find a therapist...

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Peterw

I'm not going to engage with you on whatever class/British issues you've got. You obviously weren't here for it didn't experience it first hand, same for the culture that caused it either so I'll just agree to disagree.

I'd be interested to hear more about this "cause" though. Please explain to me what it is.

I didn't experience it firsthand, but it is the reason for the upset. Perhaps my lack of firsthand involvement gives me a broader perspective of the factors involved or perhaps it does make me somehow ignorant of a more mundane and utterly ridiculous reason for the riots. I am also well aware of 'chavvy' culture and its less than savory aspects. However this wasn't a chav led riot. However there are major problems with the UK's law system and major cultural inequities which are causing much strife.

Are you a UK citizen? Did you witness the riots firsthand?

[xtremelady]

Absolute 100% crap. I made it through the recession and built my career from nothing all starting out at the job centre. There are jobs, apprenticeships and opportunities all being done by Indians and Eastern europeans. There is no lack of opportunity just people delegating responsibility for their lives and getting upset when a recession comes along and discovering that no one will look after them but themselves.

What about the people who had their business burned down? What about people who had their homes burned down, or smashed into and ransacked while they were there?

Which recession? I have made through the last 2 without problems - this one I fear will not be the case. Small businesses are struggling at present and I have seen too many friends as well as competitors fail over the last year.

Companies are going to India because it it is more cost effective - not because people in this country are not willing to do the job. And how does this create more work in the UK?

I think you need to explain how this is crap? difficult to respond to such a broad critasism....

Do you condone the riots? Were you one of them?

Haha I am actually on the opposite end of the spectrum and fear the effects of what will happen due to the ineffectiveness of the authorities.

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

I didn't experience it firsthand, but it is the reason for the upset. Perhaps my lack of firsthand involvement gives me a broader perspective of the factors involved or perhaps it does make me somehow ignorant of a more mundane and utterly ridiculous reason for the riots. I am also well aware of 'chavvy' culture and its less than savory aspects. However this wasn't a chav led riot. However there are major problems with the UK's law system and major cultural inequities which are causing much strife.

Are you a UK citizen? Did you witness the riots firsthand?

Almost made it to my neighbourhood, I had a frying pan by the bed ready to use..

Originally Posted by xtremelady

Which recession? I have made through the last 2 without problems - this one I fear will not be the case. Small businesses are struggling at present and I have seen too many friends as well as competitors fail over the last year.

Companies are going to India because it it is more cost effective - not because people in this country are not willing to do the job. And how does this create more work in the UK?

I think you need to explain how this is crap? difficult to respond to such a broad critasism....

Haha I am actually on the opposite end of the spectrum and fear the effects of what will happen due to the ineffectiveness of the authorities.

I made it through the last recession as well (just). Outsourcing to India is common but the point I was making is that people are queing up to get into this country for the opportunities and jobs. Go to any large workplace and you'll see quite a large proportion of eastern Europeans and Indians over here doing the jobs.

I suppose it just annoys me when people try and play the 'lack of opportunity' card as an excuse. Maybe they should leave and go somewhere else where there's more opportunity, just like all those people who come here and are making good livings for themselves.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Peterw

Almost made it to my neighbourhood, I had a frying pan by the bed ready to use..

Your views on the riots suddenly seem totally rational. I'm convinced. A frying pan though? I just don't see that working so well, should have grabbed a window pole or made a shank.

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Your views on the riots suddenly seem totally rational. I'm convinced. A frying pan though? I just don't see that working so well, should have grabbed a window pole or made a shank.

Thanks I think at the time other people on here were posting who did get mixed up in it. The frying pan was all I could think of at the time. I've got one of those wooden practice samurai swords somewhere but couldn't find it.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Peterw

Thanks I think at the time other people on here were posting who did get mixed up in it. The frying pan was all I could think of at the time. I've got one of those wooden practice samurai swords somewhere but couldn't find it.

I think a frying pan would work over a wooden sword as far as sheer stopping power goes

Do you agree with the severe laws the UK has been enacting recently though? Do you think it's a sort of 'necessary evil' or do you think such laws are good to have all the time?

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

I think a frying pan would work over a wooden sword as far as sheer stopping power goes

Do you agree with the severe laws the UK has been enacting recently though? Do you think it's a sort of 'necessary evil' or do you think such laws are good to have all the time?

Now the dust is settling a bit and the intial anger is calming down I'm starting to think what can be done to get at the root causes.

Keeping them all in jail will cost money and the minor offenders will end up hardened criminals with records that will screw their chances of turning their lives around. Perhaps They could figure out some way of getting them to work off the damage they've caused and learn a bit out work and the value of money..

It's a tough one, although something positive can come out of all this. The riots were the bubbling over of a problem that's been simmering for a long time. They can't just fix it with a proverbial whack of the frying pan.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Liquid items being sold in bag form just gives me the heebie jeebies.

The utterly nasty stuff they put in jugs and call milk in the US should give you even more heebie jeebies. If you think the way they treat beef cattle in the US sucks, they treat dairy cows even worse! Give me bagged Latin American milk over US milk any day! That stuff actually tastes like milk.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by VinceG

The utterly nasty stuff they put in jugs and call milk in the US should give you even more heebie jeebies. If you think the way they treat beef cattle in the US sucks, they treat dairy cows even worse! Give me bagged Latin American milk over US milk any day! That stuff actually tastes like milk.

Dude I am mostly vegan, milk in general gives me the creeps. Except that delicious grass fed stuff from my neighbor's cows.