Self Sufficiency

[Rebecca800]

Do you grow your own vegetables? If so, is it worth it?

I'm thinking about starting a small veggie garden, partly because of the economy and the knock on effects to food supply and prices - and partly because it would be a fun outdoor project for me. We have lots of land to work with and a mild sub tropical climate, it could be very productive.

We're also gonna get a couple of chickens, which seems a no brainer if you like eggs.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of this, how much time is really needed to maintain a veggie patch for two people, and is it a worthwhile endeavor in your opinion?

I have a gardening book and am reading up all about soils, fertilizers, pests, watering, mulching.... seems a lot to learn!!

[James81]

I grew up helping my dad with his garden every year that I've been alive. In his younger days, he would grow this massive garden and always would yield all sorts of vegetables. Then him and my mom would can them. I can remember many a day helping them break beans for canning.

When I had my own house, I mainly only grew tomatoes and squash. Not sure if you have access to these or not, but the best tomatoes I've ever had were called "Goliaths".

But yeah, I've got experience with planting corn, beans, potatoes, tomatoes, squash, and peppers.

Gardening can be a lot of work, but it can also be a very satisfying payoff as well. There's something innately satisfying about growing your own food.

With me being on the east coast of the US and you being in New Zealand, I'm not sure how different things would be in terms of growing stuff. But I'm willing to answer any questions you might have. I'm definitely not the gardener that my dad is, though, so my knowledge is still pretty limited.

[James81]

As far as time, a small garden isn't necessarily time consuming, but it does demand some daily attention. If you don't get a lot of rain, then you gotta find ways to water it or it won't do as well. There's also times when you go out and weed it and till the ground every now and again because it'll harden over time and you want to keep it fairly soft when things are intially growing.

Most of the time and effort is upfront when you are planting it, though. The rest is just random maintenance. If you get frequent enough rain, you hardly have to mess with it at all (aside from pulling weeds sometimes) until it's time to harvest.

[wstein]

I have had a small vegetable garden several times in my life. In addition to the enjoyment of gardening, the fruits and vegetables are far tastier and contain more nutrients than the ones you can buy at the store and usually even better than the ones in framers markets. Unless you go super deluxe, it is cheaper too. You can read tons of books all about it, but I did not find it necessary. After a basic book I just started. I went to a local nursery and asked for help when I had problems.

Subsistence farming (raising all your fruits and vegetable needs) is a far bigger task. First it takes much more land. The other key issue is that in most parts of the world, fruits and vegetables are seasonal. This means to cover your year round needs, you also need to get in to greenhouses or preservation (freezing, canning, etc). Both of these are somewhat costly and inefficient a small scales making the economic motivation questionable. I have not done this but suspect that for an urban person, not really worth it.

[elucidate]

I've slacked off at the moment, but in the past, I have grown some pretty great gardens, and volunteered as a propagator of seedlings for organic growers who let me take home as many seedlings as I wanted all for free...so that was pretty awesome, plus I got to pick up tips for growing things in a sustainable way, via permaculture.

I love getting my hands dirty, and growing things, It saves money, tastes better, and is a good way to relieve stress. All round positive thing to do, but many people consider gardening to be 'boring'. I don't find it boring at all. It's a great feeling and there's a lot involved...from getting the soil Ph just right to knowing which plants work are compatible with each other...yes, plants are like people in this way.

It's winter here right now, but come spring, I'm gonna get out and get motivated again. I need to bring a bit more of nature into my life, living in the city, and a garden is a great way to do that.

It's a smart move to grow a garden these days.

[Rebecca800]

Thanks for your comments and encouragement. I am keen to start small and then if it works out, scale it up a bit. I have an ideal patch of garden about 3m x 8m which gets the sun all day and is protected from wind... so will start working on that soon.

It is winter here now so I'm just getting the theory sorted out in my head before I start in spring. It will be nice to have another outdoor project. I live on 3 acres in the country, much of that is bush or paddocks but there are a lot of plants and lawn to attend to and it has caused me to develop greener fingers... and yes I do enjoy it

One question - the soil here is basically clay, very chunky and hard to work with. Can I mix something into it or should I just dig it all out and replace it? Thanks.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Rebecca800

Thanks for your comments and encouragement. I am keen to start small and then if it works out, scale it up a bit. I have an ideal patch of garden about 3m x 8m which gets the sun all day and is protected from wind... so will start working on that soon.

It is winter here now so I'm just getting the theory sorted out in my head before I start in spring. It will be nice to have another outdoor project. I live on 3 acres in the country, much of that is bush or paddocks but there are a lot of plants and lawn to attend to and it has caused me to develop greener fingers... and yes I do enjoy it

One question - the soil here is basically clay, very chunky and hard to work with. Can I mix something into it or should I just dig it all out and replace it? Thanks.

Mix in compost with the clay. Clay soil is fine to grow many plants in but it is very difficult to work with, especially when it is wet. Plants that need good drainage and that are susceptible to rot will not do well in clay soil as clay does not drain well at all.

Amending the soil requires that you till the clay when it is dry, as wet clay sticks and clumps to everything, making it near impossible to work with. You must amend the clay with a coarse sand or compost (a very mulchy cow dung compost mixed with coarse grain sand would work well), something chunky and gritty that will break up the tiny silt particulate that clay is composed of. DO NOT use fine grain sand! This will make the problem worse, use a coarse grain. Avoid using perlite and vermiculite until the soil is no longer really sticky and clumpy when wetted, it should be of a loose consistency. Be sure to till the clay as deeply as possible when amending the soil. At least 1 foot deep wherever you are planting. It may help to till in a light mulch 1/10th part per soil mix. You'll want to avoid changing the natural landscape too drastically though, so do try and work with the clay instead of just taking it all out. It will help the plants develop familiarity with the area when they're growing and the soil amendments will make the growing easier.

Test the pH of your soil. Clay is usually very alkaline, you don't want soil that is too sweet. Some plants like it but many garden vegetables prefer a pH of 6.4 to 6.8 so keep amending the soil until the pH is ever so slightly acidic. Be sure to check the pH preferences of the plants you are growing though, for example the herb lavender likes very sweet alkaline soil with a pH between 7 and 8. In general too much acidity will make plants taste a bit on the bitter side and too much alkaline will make them taste astringent.

Mix in diatomaceous earth with your soil amendments, be sure to select a grade coarser than food grade for this. Diatomaceous earth is comprised of the skeletons of dead diatoms, which are unicellular phytoplanktons often called algae. Their dead shells are very high in silica, which is excellent for plant growth and the shells are extremely sharp to insects, they will cut up any bug eggs in the soil and give you a sterile plot to work with so that initially your chances of infestation will be lower.

Perlite and vermiculite are 2 different kinds of volcanic soil which give the soil more vascularity because of their porous qualities. Breathability in soil makes for healthier plants and better soil drainage. Soil that is constantly soaked makes many plants susceptible to rot! Some melon plants actually prefer to live in damp soil for most of their life cycle due to their high water demand but most plants prefer a bit of time to dry out.

Be sure that whatever you amend the soil with, that it does not contain too many parasites or foreign insects. Buy your stuff locally to avoid this and really mix that diatomaceous earth in.

More tips on growing, pest control and planting to come.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

When encountering bug infestation problems (and you will), there's no need to run to the store and buy some strange pesticide comprised of a bunch of esoteric sounding chemicals that could cause you and the environment serious harm. A simple and effective insecticide is a spray consisting of 7 parts water, 2 parts castille soap and 1 part cayenne pepper powder (freshly ground for more potency!). Plants which act as natural bug repellants include the tansy herb and the chrysanthemum flower. Plant them in and around your garden. Or better yet, research natural bug repelling plants that are native to your surrounding area and use those.

Pick off bugs with your hands as often as you can, the best insecticide is physical removal of the insect. Take note of curled or puckered leaves on otherwise healthy looking plants, clip them off and douse them in soapy water immediately. Do not uncurl these leaves, they likely contain caterpillar or beetle eggs which will fall out and spread all over the ground.

When planting young plants purchased at a nursery if you are not germinating your plants, be sure you are planting them properly! Dig a hole at least twice as wide and 1.5 as deep as the pot the plant is in. Gingerly remove the plant from its pot, being careful to avoid accidentally snapping any stems or damaging the roots. Most plants in a pot will be root bound, meaning the root structure will have conformed to the shape of the pot. Do not place it in the ground like this! As gently as you can, try to loosen the roots from their pot bound state. One good way to do this is by gently rubbing the root bolus with your palm in counterclockwise to clockwise motions being careful to not rip the roots. Doing this is massaging the plant into a more unbound, ready to plant state.

Before planting, fill the hole you're planting in 1/4th full of water. Add some plant food to the water as well if you have some available. Liquified fish fertilizer is excellent for this. It's made from the stuff the seafood industry doesn't normally use such as guts, bones and eyeballs, they grind it up and turn it into a liquid which is highly nutritious for plants. Smells pretty rank though
Gently cover the plant with the surrounding soil you dug up and any soil that was freed from the root bolus during the root massage. Gently pat down the soil, don't pack it really firmly but don't leave it entirely loose either. You're wrapping the roots in a warm blanket of earth, think of it like that. When adding the dirt back BE VERY CAREFUL TO NOT COVER THE CROWN OF THE PLANT! The crown is the area where the main root (the taproot) meets the main stem of the plant. This area must be just above or aligned with the soil but never covered. Covering this area will make the plant susceptible to boring insects, rot and all kinds of serious problems as the stems are not meant to be underground, they're meant to be above ground.

Do not water during the middle of the day. Water early in the morning for the best results. Plants watered during the middle of the day may receive too much sunlight from the amplification of the sun's rays caused by them being magnified by the water droplets. This is usually not much of a problem for partial shade plants though and many partial sun/shade plants prefer a water at this time as they do not dry off as quickly as full sun plants and are more susceptible to rot, since midday is the hottest time of the day they'll dry off quicker. However partial shade will have the whole day to dry off if you water them in the morning, so it's best to just stick to that piece of advice and disregard details until you become more learned.

Keep an eye on the coloration of your leaves. Different color changes signal certain things the plant may need. These color differences are usually particular to the plant you're looking at. In general, yellowing leaves are a sign of a kind of element deficiency.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

That said growing your own produce is incredibly satisfying and absolutely worth it. Many gardeners are of the belief that plants grown by your own hand have much more to offer to you than plants you bought at the store as they are growing according to your vibrational impact on them, thus they will be more resonant with you.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Rebecca800

One question - the soil here is basically clay, very chunky and hard to work with. Can I mix something into it or should I just dig it all out and replace it? Thanks.

Raised beds! It allows you to control exactly what's in your soil, while keeping the bugs and the large surface that misses with container gardening. It also allows you to structure your garden vertically, to an extent (play with shady zones and sunny zones, and just make it look cooler).

Are you a vegetarian? If so (or even if you're not, actually), you might want to give some thought to the chicken thing. Chickens lay eggs for a couple years but can go on to live for another decade if they're not turned to broth (egg chickens and meat chickens are different breeds, so she won't make a very good ddinner). Granted, there are other advantages than eggs to keeping chickens, such as pest control and soil fertilization, and your chicken will have a better life than most egg hens, but think beforehand of whether you will have the heart to kill your pet chicken in her prime, or to care for an unproductive bird for the rest of her life...

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

That said growing your own produce is incredibly satisfying and absolutely worth it. Many gardeners are of the belief that plants grown by your own hand have much more to offer to you than plants you bought at the store as they are growing according to your vibrational impact on them, thus they will be more resonant with you.

I love to grow herbs with this in mind. It also helps you to better attune yourself and ground to earth and you can even find yourself being more receptive to the plants themselves, if you are so inclined.

[garentee]

Gypsum works well for clay soil..Mulching with straw and manure works well as do autumn leaves..WHile chickens are a good thing they do like some things that you may be growing.. I would suggest ducks as they love slugs which you will get a lot of.. having clay soil and the like..and they also do not eat nearly as much of your items that you are growing. The number one rule that I can tell you from experience is to not work your soil when it is wet.. it will really make it difficult to work it for the rest of the growing season..Good luck.. Clay soils can be really really challenging, but they do grow some very nice vegetables...(when they are not too wet or too dry.. straw mulch will help regulate the moisture) Feel free to ask any questions I ran a vegetable farm on clay soils for 11 years.. Now I am running one on sand... It is definitely different...

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by garentee

Gypsum works well for clay soil..Mulching with straw and manure works well as do autumn leaves..WHile chickens are a good thing they do like some things that you may be growing.. I would suggest ducks as they love slugs which you will get a lot of.. having clay soil and the like..and they also do not eat nearly as much of your items that you are growing. The number one rule that I can tell you from experience is to not work your soil when it is wet.. it will really make it difficult to work it for the rest of the growing season..Good luck.. Clay soils can be really really challenging, but they do grow some very nice vegetables...(when they are not too wet or too dry.. straw mulch will help regulate the moisture) Feel free to ask any questions I ran a vegetable farm on clay soils for 11 years.. Now I am running one on sand... It is definitely different...

Slugs also love beer, I usually leave saucers of beer out for the slugs, keeps them drunk and off the plants

The duck option is probably better though, as long as you can keep up with deterring predators, making sure the ducks are disease free and are getting the proper feed and shelter. Ducks also lay eggs and imo duck eggs taste better than chicken eggs. They also look funnier, as is explained by the following picture:

[WarrenG]

Any effort to increase your skills of self-sufficiency is worth it.

Even if you decide that you don't want to actually maintain a garden, it's worth knowing how to, just in case you should ever need to, and/or teach other people how to do it.

I don't have a garden in my little flat, but if I did I would definitely grow something. I love big city life but I can imagine myself moving to a smaller town at some point.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Any effort to increase your skills of self-sufficiency is worth it.

Even if you decide that you don't want to actually maintain a garden, it's worth knowing how to, just in case you should ever need to, and/or teach other people how to do it.

I don't have a garden in my little flat, but if I did I would definitely grow something. I love big city life but I can imagine myself moving to a smaller town at some point.

You can still do a lot in a city! You can garden on your rooftop, doorstep, windowsill... If only for fresh herbs, it's totally worth it.
For urban gardening inspiration check out You Grow Girl | Gardening for the People. and in particular her rooftop posts, and Windowfarms?

[WarrenG]

You're probably right. My neighbour has an unused porch area which I could grow stuff in, but I live literally next door to a nightclub and a theatre, so I'm not sure how long they'd last!

My windowsill could work, but it doesn't get much light (blocked by the nightclub). Worth a shot though, I'll look into it, thanks for the tip and links!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by aelle

You can still do a lot in a city! You can garden on your rooftop, doorstep, windowsill... If only for fresh herbs, it's totally worth it.
For urban gardening inspiration check out You Grow Girl | Gardening for the People. and in particular her rooftop posts, and Windowfarms?

Yes, and there are plenty of plants you can put in styro foam boxes...like lettuce, which you can just take as many leaves as you need, and they will regenerate. They can be placed near a window for sun or outside on a verandah if you have one.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

You're probably right. My neighbour has an unused porch area which I could grow stuff in, but I live literally next door to a nightclub and a theatre, so I'm not sure how long they'd last!

My windowsill could work, but it doesn't get much light (blocked by the nightclub). Worth a shot though, I'll look into it, thanks for the tip and links!

Oops...I got excited and didn't read this one before I sent the other one.

[firenexx]

Using hardware cloth to cover the dirt between plants is a great way to control weeds without actually having to weed.

For tomatoes and other plants that like it hot, you can even use clear sheet plastic. This is great at cooking bugs.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by firenexx

Using hardware cloth to cover the dirt between plants is a great way to control weeds without actually having to weed.

For tomatoes and other plants that like it hot, you can even use clear sheet plastic. This is great at cooking bugs.

Black plastic is better because the clear will enhance weed growth.. black.. not so much..

[firenexx]

That makes sense.

(That is also why the crab grass is having a field day underneath my tomato row covers)

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

I never ever noticed that, but it's totally true...they do look like dogs faces.