America is in a bind that cannot be solved within the system

[TheJourney]

We have divided the political thought of our nation into two wings. Right wing and left wing. Within each side, there are extremists(not in the sense of violent, but in the sense of being COMPLETELY left or right) and moderates. So, it goes something like extremely left, moderately left, moderately right, extremely right.

A member of the two-party system has a very hard time getting ahead. Why is this? In order to have a real chance, a politician MUST appeal to the moderate majority. In order to actually win, he MUST appeal to the extremists of his side, or "his base," as they would say. In order to get any real support, he MUST appeal to the moderates of the OTHER side. In order for the moderates to feel comfortable supporting this person, it MUST somehow achieve the goals of the extremists of that side, to at least some degree.

Essentially, a politician must appeal to everyone, without really going against anyone, in order to succeed. Do you not see the madness? Do you not see this is why NOTHING is working in Washington? Why we are TRILLIONS of dollars in debt, yet there are not that many people even living that great of lives, materially speaking. Do you know what this results in? Legislation that is THOUSANDS of pages long, that essentially says NOTHING! Do you know why it is so long? All legislation MUST appeal to EVERY POSITION possible. Do you know why it says nothing? Because upon appealing to the various positions, it must proceed to say some sort of a "but" clause, in which it claims to not contradict the other positions!

It goes something like this. Say something that appeals to the extreme right-wingers, followed by saying "but," and then explaining why it is consistent with moderate left-wing thought. It then proceeds to say something extremely left-wing, and then follows it up with a sort of "but," and then explains why it is not inconsistent with moderate right-wing thought. "Good" legislation appeals to all of these things, which is why they are willing to pass it. You know what the problem is? After all this, no one has any idea what the hell it says. They then leave its interpretation to someone else. However it comes to be interpreted, there will be strong support, and strong rejection. After this, the process repeats.

THIS CANNOT CONTINUE! There must be BIG change, NOW, and I don't mean a tiny little shift every 4-8 years as it has been done in the past. The time is now for US, meaning the people(who the government is supposed to serve), to really DO SOMETHING and take control of OUR OWN FATE.

[Brutha]

You miss all sorts of real world features of a democratic system.
Voters generally don't read legislation. They don't care about the specific content of the legislation but only about the general direction of the legislation.

Lobbyists care about specific parts of legislation.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by TheJourney

THIS CANNOT CONTINUE! There must be BIG change, NOW, and I don't mean a tiny little shift every 4-8 years as it has been done in the past. The time is now for US, meaning the people(who the government is supposed to serve), to really DO SOMETHING and take control of OUR OWN FATE.

Big change happens slowly and incrementally... It has taken nearly 50 years of right wing leadership and chipping away at what was a pretty large safety net to get to this point... Greed kills societies.. this is why America will be a has been in the not too distant future. Whats has taken place here is nothing more than a great money and power grab.. Robber Barons are laughing at all of us...

[JDuff]

I know but now they have Fox News and have brainwashed millions into voting against their own welfare. First they got trillions by bribing the tax payer, now they will demand massive cuts that deeply affect the lower and middle classes and suck all the power and money upwards. The top 1% already own 40% of the wealth - expect the rate of increase to speed up even more.

America is facing a big regression in terms of moderate and rational social discourse. In my opinion, instead of talking about progress we should be talking about damage limitation. Otherwise we will see the merging of the corporate and the governmental, which as we all know, is fascism.

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by garentee

Big change happens slowly and incrementally... It has taken nearly 50 years of right wing leadership and chipping away at what was a pretty large safety net to get to this point... Greed kills societies.. this is why America will be a has been in the not too distant future. Whats has taken place here is nothing more than a great money and power grab.. Robber Barons are laughing at all of us...

Don't just blame the right, the left are just as much at fault as the right. They are all crooked. Under Bush we raised our national debt by around 5 trillion dollars in 8 years. Obama has raised it nearly 4 trillion in 2.5 years. I don't understand why you say the last 50 years have been right wing leadership. I am not a fan of republicans, but I don't like the dems either. Let us be honest they both have run this country into the ground. The last 50 years dems have been in control the majority of times. Since 1945 we have seen:

Presidents: 8 democrat terms, 9 republican terms
senate: 24 democrat terms, 10 republican terms
house: 26 democrat terms, 8 republican terms

As you can see democrats have been in control close to 3 times the amount repubs have. Repubs were in control for the 2nd half of clintons presidency, and dems were in charge of the last part of bush's presidency. They are both to blame for our current mess. Don't vote the 2 party system. Vote independent.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

Don't just blame the right, the left are just as much at fault as the right. They are all crooked. Under Bush we raised our national debt by around 5 trillion dollars in 8 years. Obama has raised it nearly 4 trillion in 2.5 years. I don't understand why you say the last 50 years have been right wing leadership. I am not a fan of republicans, but I don't like the dems either. Let us be honest they both have run this country into the ground. The last 50 years dems have been in control the majority of times. Since 1945 we have seen:

Presidents: 8 democrat terms, 9 republican terms
senate: 24 democrat terms, 10 republican terms
house: 26 democrat terms, 8 republican terms

As you can see democrats have been in control close to 3 times the amount repubs have. Repubs were in control for the 2nd half of clintons presidency, and dems were in charge of the last part of bush's presidency. They are both to blame for our current mess. Don't vote the 2 party system. Vote independent.

I say the right because they have been unbelievably successful at getting their agenda put into place. The left has been and is amazingly incompetent at getting anywhere near the legislative victories that the right has... Reagan was a very powerful leader as well. He was a major player in this..
I say 50 years because the modern era of conservatism started with barry Goldwater in 1964..Barry Goldwater - Conservapedia
I do agree that the left has quite a bit of blame for our current situation..Then again the left is a bit more right then they used to be ..

[rodav]

When government becomes so big, watch out for trouble.

We should not expect government to take care of us, it cannot.

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by rodav

We should not expect government to take care of us, it cannot.

I agree - and nor should it, otherwise you're just legislating dependence.

That said, we should expect people in positions of power to act in our interest; that's what they are there for. The problem, as you say, is when they are so powerful that our interests don't have to matter so much.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by JDuff

[...] Otherwise we will see the merging of the corporate and the governmental, which as we all know, is fascism.

Actually, the merging of corporate and government entities is called corporatism.

Which, if you weren't aware, we already have. Consider the businesses and special interest groups who donate billions of dollars into the election and re-election funds of politicians, only for those politicians to act on their behalf. And this is only one example.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

Actually, the merging of corporate and government entities is called corporatism.

Which, if you weren't aware, we already have. Consider the businesses and special interest groups who donate billions of dollars into the election and re-election funds of politicians, only for those politicians to act on their behalf. And this is only one example.

And the end result of this kind of behavior is this....
.Standard & Poor's | Americas
Click on Full report on The US credit rating being lowered to AA+ instead of AAA The US is acting like and slowly becoming a banana republic...