Revolution has Started by a Spiritual Teacher in India

[Andras]

This is a re-post from another site....

"A few days back, a Sadhu or Jungle-man named "Ramdev" has started a revolution in India. I think Ramdev has 50 million or 100 million followers and supporters in India. He is well connected to political parties in India since some reports said his ayurvedic/herbal medicines and donations have earned Ramdev some $2 Billion in 2 years.
Ramdev started a fast campaign against black money estimated $1 Trillion and corruption in India but on Saturday night Indian police attacked Ramdev and his supporters at midnight in which 40 to 100 people have been injured and some have been injured seriously. A woman protestor has been critically injured in midnight police attack and she is hospitalised in ICU. Doctors say she maybe paralysed for life since she was hit on her neck. The police attack resulted a raging fire in Ramdev's massive tent/camp which could have killed hundreds of people but the fire was stopped by protestors. There was a big fight between police and protestors. Ramdev was kidnapped by Indian police and later flown out of Delhi. For 8 hours, nobody knew where the police had taken Ramdev.

Some politicians say this is "emergency like act". Now a serious political war has started between Indian opposition politicians and ruling politicians and the Indian president has called for high level meeting with the opposition party. Some politicians are saying that Sadhus cannot dictate politics in India. So my understanding says that ruling politicians are jealous because Sadhus are getting more importance and they are not able to digest this. These politicians think they are superior people but the fact is they are worth 2 cents or less. Also some politicians are connected to fraud/scam people and companies so they are scared they will be caught. This is the reason Indian police was ordered to attack Ramdev and his supporters at midnight. Politicians are death scared of somebody.

Even the leader of India ruling congress "Sonia Gandhi"(Italian born) is not supporting Congress decision to attack Ramdev and his supporters. Some unknown people say Sonia Gandhi and her son Rahul may have $30 Billion black money. Mukesh Ambani, richest Indian has $20 Billion.

The situation in India seems to be serious since the Indian government will fall in coming days. Prime minister Manmohan Singh is nowhere to be seen.

I was thinking, USA brought down Egypt and Libya government. So there is also a possibility that USA will bring down Indian government. USA has a bad habit of interfering with other countries for unknown reasons.

Some media say "Shoe attack on Congress". This is regarding a breaking news which says, a person tried to assault a congress spokesman with a Shoe at a press conference.

India will explode. Everybody stay away from India.

Jungle-man Ramdev has international consumers for his ayurvedic and herbal medicines. I think Ramdev is world famous.

Ramdev is supported by RSS and VHP who are extremists groups. RSS and VHP can be known as "Indian Al-Aqaeda". They are dangerous people. RSS and VHP had demolished Babri Masjid (Mosque) which resulted in riots in India.

In India if somebody tries to fight corruption, fraud and scams from politicians, government people and high profile people then these fighters are silenced by government and law. Some Indian politicians think they are God because they control the police.Indian police made a big mistake by obeying politcians and attacking & kidnapping Ramdev and injuring 40 to 100 protestors. Police should have ignored politicians. Now Indian police and politicians are all in serious trouble.

There are some 5 million Sadhus or Jungle-men in India who live in mountains of Himalayas and ganges river. These Sadhus are honest and strong people. But when they get angry they are terrifying.

Now if these 5 million Sadhus come to New Delhi then Indian politicians and police will have nowhere to run and hide. Then Indian Army will have to move in and take control of the country.

Ramdev's campaign against black money was directed towards money deposited over past 45 years by Indians in Switzerland and other countries estimated $1 Trillion (not sure). But my understanding says that only 25% of money deposited in Switzerland maybe illegal.

I think black money from India is invested in Giant Indian companies which are listed on stock exchanges. Example if a Giant indian company is worth $70 Billion then 10% or 15% or $10 Billion can be black money because anybody can purchase shares/stocks from stock exchanges without any identification.

So my understanding says that 10% or 15% of money invested in Indian stock exchanges maybe black or illegal money. Indian law will have to investigate the source of money used to purchase stocks.

Everybody knows bollywood or Indian movies have good connections with Indian mafia and underworld gangs. So bollywood is big source of black or illegal money in India. Indian premier league (IPL) is also very attractive for black money.

The same should apply to world stock exchanges and world companies.

I think Obama and other world leaders know Ramdev or they must have heard of Ramdev because Indian politicians and Indian billionares speak to Ramdev. Ramdev flies by chartered planes or special planes which maybe sponsored by politicians or rich people. Ramdev had started an international campaign for his herbal medicines."

[munish]

Originally Posted by Andras

This is a re-post from another site....

"A few days back, a Sadhu or Jungle-man named "Ramdev" has started a revolution in India

Ramdev is supported by RSS and VHP who are extremists groups. RSS and VHP can be known as "Indian Al-Aqaeda". They are dangerous people. RSS and VHP had demolished Babri Masjid (Mosque) which resulted in riots in India.

Now if these 5 million Sadhus come to New Delhi then Indian politicians and police will have nowhere to run and hide. Then Indian Army will have to move in and take control of the country.

I think Obama and other world leaders know Ramdev or they must have heard of Ramdev because Indian politicians and Indian billionares speak to Ramdev. Ramdev flies by chartered planes or special planes which maybe sponsored by politicians or rich people. Ramdev had started an international campaign for his herbal medicines."

Ramdev's aid Balkishan could be arrested by CBI anytime.

I have visited his old house in Haridwar, he used to ride a BiCycle a few years ago. Now he has Charter Planes.

CBI is investigating the matter , so there is no point in writing such an ill informed post . As you have done.

[Andras]

Do you deny that India is corrupt to the core? What if he is now rich? He did not gain by taking bribes as all the low and high level politicians? Seems you are in denial.

Originally Posted by munish

Ramdev's aid Balkishan could be arrested by CBI anytime.

I have visited his old house in Haridwar, he used to ride a BiCycle a few years ago. Now he has Charter Planes.

CBI is investigating the matter , so there is no point in writing such an ill informed post . As you have done.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Could you tell us more about Ramdev's purpose? Why is he spearheading a revolution? What are his perceived motives?

[Andras]

He is a simple sadhu turned celebrity. He just wants to stop corruption which is rampant and widespread to the lowest levels of Indian life. I know, no country is above blemish, but just imagine going to the airport and the TSA would not only feel you up but ask for a bribe just to let you through?
Indians living in the US, regularly take extra cash for bribe when going home to visit relatives/friends.

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Could you tell us more about Ramdev's purpose? Why is he spearheading a revolution? What are his perceived motives?

[munish]

Originally Posted by Andras

Seems you are in denial.

How many years have you lived in India?

Ram Dev lives in Uttrakhand (Hindu Dominated , BJP Ruled State )

He is not allowed to hold a rally in U.P. a Muslim / Dalit Dominated , BSP ruled state.) BJP has just 50 odd seats in this seats in this state.

He is not allowed to enter New Delhi . (A Congress Ruled , Muslims/Dalits play a major role in the Congress win here.

Ramdev followers not allowed to protest at Jantar Mantar

Communists are against him (Brinda Karat) has filed a case against him.


The bigger problem in India is that here we have over hundred Religions/Sects/Political Parties.

Ending Corruption will not solve the Problems.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Andras

He is a simple sadhu turned celebrity. He just wants to stop corruption which is rampant and widespread to the lowest levels of Indian life. I know, no country is above blemish, but just imagine going to the airport and the TSA would not only feel you up but ask for a bribe just to let you through?
Indians living in the US, regularly take extra cash for bribe when going home to visit relatives/friends.

So how does he plan to get rid of corruption? What are his ideals? A sadhu is basically a holy man and a yogi, right? Does he follow a particular path or is he a self described mendicant?

[Andras]

...in this life? None....
I am against corruption as a philosophical issue. Note: I am against US corruption, special interest politics and lobbies as well. But we still have laws ruling our land for the most part. Simple interaction with low level government officials might be unpleasant but will seldom result in bribery.
Why are you so against this man? He was on a hunger strike when they just snatched him. The communists are against him? More the reason I favor him.

Originally Posted by munish

How many years have you lived in India?

Ram Dev lives in Uttrakhand (Hindu Dominated , BJP Ruled State )

He is not allowed to hold a rally in U.P. a Muslim / Dalit Dominated , BSP ruled state.) BJP has just 50 odd seats in this seats in this state.

He is not allowed to enter New Delhi . (A Congress Ruled , Muslims/Dalits play a major role in the Congress win here.

Ramdev followers not allowed to protest at Jantar Mantar

Communists are against him (Brinda Karat) has filed a case against him.


The bigger problem in India is that here we have over hundred Religions/Sects/Political Parties.

Ending Corruption will not solve the Problems.

[Solipsist]

It is my belief that spirituality and politics have nothing to do with each other. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's".

Hence, I don't believe that a "spiritual teacher" could start a political revolution. Either one is political, or one is spiritual.

[Andras]

Activism is not politics! When a person sees injustice and worldly wrongs is is not right to hide in the ivory tower or wrap yourself in robes or become a hermit. You must face these wrongs and must shed the light to them at least, or better yet fight them. It is wrong and misguided to quote Jesus who, according to the Bible was one of the early grass root organizer and activist.

Originally Posted by Solipsist

It is my belief that spirituality and politics have nothing to do with each other. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's".

Hence, I don't believe that a "spiritual teacher" could start a political revolution. Either one is political, or one is spiritual.

[Brutha]

Activism is not politics!

Of course it is.

You must face these wrongs and must shed the light to them at least, or better yet fight them.

Fighting has side effects.
A bit blood flows in most revolutions and in some there a lot of blood.

It is my belief that spirituality and politics have nothing to do with each other. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's".

Hence, I don't believe that a "spiritual teacher" could start a political revolution. Either one is political, or one is spiritual.

The idea of distinguishing politics and spirituality is a Western idea that comes from the relationship of the Catholic church with European states.

Few Buddhist had argued that the Dalai Lama is spiritual because he engaged in politics.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Andras

...in this life? None....
I am against corruption as a philosophical issue. Note: I am against US corruption, special interest politics and lobbies as well. But we still have laws ruling our land for the most part. Simple interaction with low level government officials might be unpleasant but will seldom result in bribery.
Why are you so against this man? He was on a hunger strike when they just snatched him. The communists are against him? More the reason I favor him.

I don't think it's wise to favor someone based on whom their enemies are. However much you may think this man's enemies tell about the man I assure you such things are rarely so simple. Communism, communists and their relations to this man are unlikely a matter of the Ramdev 'fighting against communism' and the 'communists' responding with an equal and opposite reaction. What is more likely, is that people who happen to practice or are somehow involved in a particular type of governmental form of organization which has been called communist have particular and numerous reasons for opposing Ramdev's movement.

I think most people are 'against corruption', especially when they don't get to cash in on it. However what qualifies as corruption is somewhat subjective, I could argue that all meat eaters are corrupt and are cashing in on the murder of animals for their tasty flesh. To say that one is 'against corruption' is not saying much at all. It's merely stating you're willing to fight against rather than work with forces and situations which profiteer from destructive rather than creative means.

Ramdev's movement will not have positive change unless there is clarification and detail in his goals and his furor may very well just be the fuel for an unnecessary and tragic bloodbath.

[Andras]

I have yet to hear a well reasoned, comprehensive reason as why someone does not like him! So far I got nothing. Let me reiterate, he was on a hunger strike when the government thugs snatched him. Why? because he stirred up too much? You bet. Is this a reason to dislike him. Or because he is not poor? Your acts and deeds speak of your character not what you say or whom you associate with. What has he done that is objectionable?

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

I don't think it's wise to favor someone based on whom their enemies are. However much you may think this man's enemies tell about the man I assure you such things are rarely so simple. Communism, communists and their relations to this man are unlikely a matter of the Ramdev 'fighting against communism' and the 'communists' responding with an equal and opposite reaction. What is more likely, is that people who happen to practice or are somehow involved in a particular type of governmental form of organization which has been called communist have particular and numerous reasons for opposing Ramdev's movement.

I think most people are 'against corruption', especially when they don't get to cash in on it. However what qualifies as corruption is somewhat subjective, I could argue that all meat eaters are corrupt and are cashing in on the murder of animals for their tasty flesh. To say that one is 'against corruption' is not saying much at all. It's merely stating you're willing to fight against rather than work with forces and situations which profiteer from destructive rather than creative means.

Ramdev's movement will not have positive change unless there is clarification and detail in his goals and his furor may very well just be the fuel for an unnecessary and tragic bloodbath.

[cacheborn]

I don't find the spirituality that he practices particularly interesting, to say the least. I see him more as a businessman, and one who is not really transparent at that.

Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Andras

I have yet to hear a well reasoned, comprehensive reason as why someone does not like him! So far I got nothing. Let me reiterate, he was on a hunger strike when the government thugs snatched him. Why? because he stirred up too much? You bet. Is this a reason to dislike him. Or because he is not poor? Your acts and deeds speak of your character not what you say or whom you associate with. What has he done that is objectionable?

Andres you're not understanding that it's not our duty to have to like him. It's his duty to try and win people over if a revolution is what he wants. For that purpose he needs to clarify his goals and not just go on hunger strikes.

From Wikipedia, I am getting the sense of the beginnings of a religious extremist on par with a Taliban Imam.

"For changing governance policies, he has initiated a movement named Bharat Swabhiman along with Rajiv Dixit.
The five goals[14] of Bharat Swabhiman campaign are:
100% voting
100% nationalist thought,
100% boycott of foreign companies and adoption of swadeshi,
100% unification of the people of the nation and
100% yoga-oriented nation.
As a part of campaign, Baba Ramdev has been organising yoga camps across India to create awareness amongst people against corruption and black money."

His goals are to sequester and limit India's involvement in the world by promoting nationalism, religious and sexual persecution (his views against homosexuality are that it is an illness and he wants a "100% yoga oriented nation") and he is interested in unifying the people of India to his purposes. Unifications of that sort are what give rise to violent and intolerant periods of nationalistic fervor with the usual horrific results.

For that reason I am highly suspicious of this man's motives. He is no peacemaker, he is a troublemaker advocating prejudices and limitation. A true swami lets the seeker come to them, they do not go out to the world and try to change it.

[munish]

There is not even a single Sadhu in Haridwar who is a real Sadhu. Including Ram Dev. You will find around 100000 of them.

They are all cheats .

If you have to find real Sadhus you will have to go to Gaumukh , around 10 hours drive from Haridwar (High up into the Himalayas) and then you have to walk for hours from there (to reach caves where they meditate) .

You will find just 5 of them , they do not come out of caves for whole year.

They come out just to take Potatoes some times (sent by devotees) from all over India.

I have been to UttarKashi , Very near to Gaumukh. But could not go to Gaumukh. (But that was several years ago.)

[Brutha]

I have yet to hear a well reasoned, comprehensive reason as why someone does not like him! So far I got nothing.

If you want a reason, he's in favor of criminalising homosexuality.

[Andras]

OK. I hear you. As far as his spirituality I could not care less. I, so far have ignored that aspect of him, as I am not looking for a guru. I think Wikipedia does not even call him a sadhu. Anyway, this is all I have to say on this matter. As a side note, I would love to visit the part of India where these "real" sadhus live.....

Originally Posted by Brutha

If you want a reason, he's in favor of criminalising homosexuality.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Andras

OK. I hear you. As far as his spirituality I could not care less. I, so far have ignored that aspect of him, as I am not looking for a guru. I think Wikipedia does not even call him a sadhu. Anyway, this is all I have to say on this matter. As a side note, I would love to visit the part of India where these "real" sadhus live.....

Isn't his spirituality the bedrock of his revolutionary campaign? Or did I misunderstand something?

[Andras]

I don't know. At any rate, someone has stood up to the politico's and dared to speak out against the rampant and stifling corruption. Personally, I've never looked at his spirituality until now, that some of you had pointed out stuff. I am very keen on not judging others based on their belief system...I try to look at their acts....
Also, we on this forum matter very little as he has a very strong and apparently growing base in India.

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Isn't his spirituality the bedrock of his revolutionary campaign? Or did I misunderstand something?

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Andras

I don't know. At any rate, someone has stood up to the politico's and dared to speak out against the rampant and stifling corruption. Personally, I've never looked at his spirituality until now, that some of you had pointed out stuff. I am very keen on not judging others based on their belief system...I try to look at their acts....
Also, we on this forum matter very little as he has a very strong and apparently growing base in India.

Everyone giving him support matters, don't marginalize your impact on the world. I would not support this man just because he is fighting corruption if his views are what I consider to be corrupt. I do not play with the lesser of two evils when I can help it.

[cacheborn]

In even simpler terms - IMO, he is not an honest businessman. And his campaign against corruption is nothing but hypocrisy when he himself has truckloads of unaccounted money.