War on Drugs

[SeizureSideSalad]

Who actually believes this is a good idea?

hint: if you do, you're wrong, plain and simple...

[Mariana Trench]

I see it as a massive waste of resources on an approach (prohibition) that has proven ineffective if not counterproductive to pretty much any goals of a healthy society surrounding drugs.

But the way you opened the conversation is getting darn close to completely blocking constructive discussion. If anyone holding a different perspective does decide to post in this thread, you've made it much more likely they'll just be here to shout at you. Word to the wise: don't do that anymore.

Why did you start this discussion?

[russianrocket]

Trolly Polly

[desertrat]

If it were up to me . I say legalize all of them , but control how they are used. People using drugs could have a safe place to be high with out endangering them selvs or others. Keep them out of the hands of kids. Here in Arizona we voted to legalize med pot. but the fedral govment stepd in and said no. The only reason drugs are kept ilegal is to keep the price high so a few people in power can make a lot of money, and these people you just can not fight. desert rat

[SeizureSideSalad]

Originally Posted by desertrat

Here in Arizona we voted to legalize med pot. but the fedral govment stepd in and said no. The only reason drugs are kept ilegal is to keep the price high so a few people in power can make a lot of money, and these people you just can not fight. desert rat

this is very true... if you haven't already, you should watch the documentary The American Drug War: The Last White Hope
It depicts the reality of the drug war very well.

One of the things that infuriates me, is that in the 80's when crack-cocaine was introduced, people didn't know where the quantity was coming from, because obviously drug dealers don't have the means of smuggling large quantities into the united states... It was later revealed that the CIA had, in fact, been responsible for importing copious amounts of cocaine from the countries(there was one in specific, but i forgot) they were invading, and selling it to lower-ladder drug lords(Ricky Ross) who would then cook it into crack, a much cheaper, powerful substance, and marketed on the streets

If you want to watch that documentary, it's on Netflix instant queue...

[taylor]

Does anyone know what the statistics of hard drug use are before and after legalization?

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by taylor

Does anyone know what the statistics of hard drug use are before and after legalization?

To my knowledge, there has only been one or two countries that have tested it by making all drugs legal. There hasn't been any significant change in usage from what I remember seeing. I can't remember where I saw it, may have been a documentary. I'll try and remember and post it here. Perhaps someone else saw the same thing I did...

[SeizureSideSalad]

Originally Posted by taylor

Does anyone know what the statistics of hard drug use are before and after legalization?

do you mean illegalization??

i don't, but i do know that 60% of all prison inmates are serving time for non-violent, drug-related crimes...

and i do know that during the prohibition of alcohol, use-rate increased by a lot, and more people were dying from it because of the quality of alcohol(moonshine, 100%) and from gang violence attributed to outlawing the substance.

[SeizureSideSalad]

Originally Posted by Mariana Trench

But the way you opened the conversation is getting darn close to completely blocking constructive discussion. If anyone holding a different perspective does decide to post in this thread, you've made it much more likely they'll just be here to shout at you. Word to the wise: don't do that anymore.

Why did you start this discussion?

It's my very strong opinion, which is backed up by proof that prohibition does NOT work. Anyone who opposes this is free, and encouraged, to say that i'm wrong... just as long as they have something to back them up.

I started this discussion because it is something i feel strongly about. and currently i am under house arrest for silly drug offenses(weed and alcohol). and if i keep smoking weed(which i am going to as soon as i leave this state) i'm looking at jail time... it's ridiculous, and it discourages any hope i might've had for this country.

Fact is, drug users tend to be psychologically sick in some way, shape or form, and to criminalize them for getting the help that they've chosen is absurd.

[Bradman]

Well, in case you don't know who I have recently put in my avatar, it is a picture of Harry Browne (RIP Harry, you are missed by many). His libertarian views mostly align with my own. He spoke much about the war on drugs. Here is one article he wrote, and it mirrors my opinion, please take a couple minutes and read it, and check out other writings by him, you may be suprised how wise and timeless his ideas are.

What if all drugs were legal? (gasp!)

[jellybeanpimp]

Drugs is a plural word. There are thousands of drugs. It doesn't just refer to weed and coke. You will never see the day when you can buy rohypnol (roofies) at the gas station. Keep in mind that there are a lot of drugs that can be used for your pleasure, and a lot of drugs that make hurting/raping/killing others way too easy for them to be available for everyone with no screening process at all.

I support the legalization of marijuana, but I definitely do not support legalizing all drugs. It's too broad of a category. You'd have to do it one-by-one, and marijuana is currently one of the only ones I would support legalizing.

[Lil Chris]

Marijuana is also one of the only one that is not processed in any way before use (other than air drying, but that's not processing and well mushrooms, but you should wash off the cow poo first ), it's as natural as it comes. Every other drug is processed in some form or fashion, including alcohol... Something to think about. If there is a god, I'll figure he knew what he was doing on that one

I also support legalizing that one... Another great movie is called The Union for more information.

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by SeizureSideSalad

this is very true... if you haven't already, you should watch the documentary The American Drug War: The Last White Hope
It depicts the reality of the drug war very well.


If you want to watch that documentary, it's on Netflix instant queue...

Interesting Movie, Thanks

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by SeizureSideSalad

do you mean illegalization??

i don't, but i do know that 60% of all prison inmates are serving time for non-violent, drug-related crimes...

and i do know that during the prohibition of alcohol, use-rate increased by a lot, and more people were dying from it because of the quality of alcohol(moonshine, 100%) and from gang violence attributed to outlawing the substance.

Pretty sure alcohol use went down big time. Now, over use, that went up.

[desertrat]

Originally Posted by Lil Chris

To my knowledge, there has only been one or two countries that have tested it by making all drugs legal. There hasn't been any significant change in usage from what I remember seeing. I can't remember where I saw it, may have been a documentary. I'll try and remember and post it here. Perhaps someone else saw the same thing I did...

I know Holland leagleized drugs and prostution . I have heard weed is sometimes soaked in tequilla. Caffine is a drug , but you can drive a car while drinking pepsi or coke a colla . desert rat

[ShoeDiva]

Even though legalization of drugs would eliminate drug mafias and drug-dealing related crime it will never occur because there is too much interest to keep it illegal. Mexico for instance would implode if the US legalized drugs.

BY keeping them illegal they are much more profitable.

Amsterdam and Netherlands have proved that by legalizing drugs , you don't increase usage/ abuse.

[ar81]

Opium wars in China... Legalizing drugs after China lost the war on drugs, caused China to have a huge problem with addicts. The Mao Zedong government is generally credited with eradicating both consumption and production of opium during the 1950s. Ten million addicts were forced into compulsory treatment, dealers were executed, and opium-producing regions were planted with new crops.

[SeizureSideSalad]

Originally Posted by ar81

Opium wars in China... Legalizing drugs after China lost the war on drugs, caused China to have a huge problem with addicts. The Mao Zedong government is generally credited with eradicating both consumption and production of opium during the 1950s. Ten million addicts were forced into compulsory treatment, dealers were executed, and opium-producing regions were planted with new crops.

Drugs effect different cultures differently. you will never know how it affects America unless you just give it a try... We already have a huge problem with addicts

[ar81]

Originally Posted by SeizureSideSalad

Drugs effect different cultures differently. you will never know how it affects America unless you just give it a try... We already have a huge problem with addicts

Make houses affordable with cheap money and you get a housing crisis. You bet what will happen when drugs are legal and affordable. What makes US so different when compared to China?

The United States has innate historical and cultural characteristics that push it toward an attitude of "exceptionalism" in its foreign policy, meaning a belief that the United States formally and informally is entitled to be treated differently from other states.

Source: https://www.law.georgetown.edu/inter...ctICJPaper.pdf

To me, Americans are great people who deserve something better than the awful social experiment of legal drugs.

[desertrat]

Let me state that the only drugs I use are the caffene in my iced tea and beer on sat. night. Just about any one that wants drugs in the U.S.A. can get them. I think most Americans know of that house down the street with people are comming and going all hours of the day and night . Making them legal wont create any new users , just bring the price down and cut out the violence. Maby some of the users will realize they have a problem and seek help. desert rat

[SeizureSideSalad]

Originally Posted by desertrat

Making them legal wont create any new users , just bring the price down and cut out the violence.

Agreed... let me ask all of you who choose not to use drugs a question: If meth and heroin were made legal, would you start using?? i know i wouldn't, which means there has to be others that wouldn't.
People who oppose the idea of legalizing almost always use slippery slope arguments: "if pot were legal nothing would get done because everybody would be stoned all the time"

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by SeizureSideSalad

Agreed... let me ask all of you who choose not to use drugs a question: If meth and heroin were made legal, would you start using?? i know i wouldn't, which means there has to be others that wouldn't.
People who oppose the idea of legalizing almost always use slippery slope arguments: "if pot were legal nothing would get done because everybody would be stoned all the time"

If pot became legal, I'm sure usage usage would double. I wouldn't.
Seems like everyone I meet tho, has or does use it. It's just too taboo once you get older tho, so you rarely find out they use it.

And, as mentioned, if anyone really wants pot, they'll find it. Everyone knows at least one person who they can ask.... even if they don't realize it yet.


But with that said, it's still a good idea to legalize it. Jobs could still fire you for using pot. You'd be able to tax people. Save money on prisoners.

[jellybeanpimp]

Originally Posted by SeizureSideSalad

Agreed... let me ask all of you who choose not to use drugs a question: If meth and heroin were made legal, would you start using?? i know i wouldn't, which means there has to be others that wouldn't.
People who oppose the idea of legalizing almost always use slippery slope arguments: "if pot were legal nothing would get done because everybody would be stoned all the time"

Like I said, you have to take each drug and look at it individually.

Marijuana I definitely support. Cocaine...hmm...that's more of a shade of gray. Methamphetamine will never be legal. Whoever distributes it would be sued for so many damages it isn't even funny. Legalizing some of these drugs would be a defense attorney's dream come true. Someone does ultimately have to bear responsibilty you know for distributing these things, if it becomes legal that is. You wouldn't just have crack houses that can't be prosecuted under the law. You would have pharmaceutical companies or some other corporation that can easily be held liable for any damages incurred.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by jellybeanpimp

Like I said, you have to take each drug and look at it individually.

Marijuana I definitely support. Cocaine...hmm...that's more of a shade of gray. Methamphetamine will never be legal. Whoever distributes it would be sued for so many damages it isn't even funny. Legalizing some of these drugs would be a defense attorney's dream come true. Someone does ultimately have to bear responsibilty you know for distributing these things, if it becomes legal that is. You wouldn't just have crack houses that can't be prosecuted under the law. You would have pharmaceutical companies or some other corporation that can easily be held liable for any damages incurred.

legalize vs decriminalize

makes the difference.

[jellybeanpimp]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

legalize vs decriminalize

makes the difference.

How is decriminalization any different from legalization? Do you mean you require rehab or something? If you decriminalize something, you make it impossible for a prosecutor to bring any kind of case against someone under criminal law, therefore making it legal.

I guess you could just say it's still illegal but we won't enforce any prosecution, therefore making it an act with no legal consequnces at all. A cat by any name is still a cat though.

[Lil Chris]

Decriminalization is a form of tolerance, when you bring in the factor of privatized prisons/jails then it becomes a factor. Adding incentives to lock people up for non-violent crimes for profit changes the scope of the discussion. Decriminalized doesn't mean you won't be fined through the nose, it suggests relaxed terms of being caught. There is a contextual difference.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by jellybeanpimp

How is decriminalization any different from legalization? Do you mean you require rehab or something? If you decriminalize something, you make it impossible for a prosecutor to bring any kind of case against someone under criminal law, therefore making it legal.

I guess you could just say it's still illegal but we won't enforce any prosecution, therefore making it an act with no legal consequences at all. A cat by any name is still a cat though.

They already have ways around that. Some places, being caught with pot, is equal to a speeding ticket.

If a drug dealer laces their stuff with rat poison, then you can prosecute them just the same. Not to mention, if it was easier to get and more legal, then you wouldn't have the same situations like you have now. Crack dens and gangs controlling drugs. There just wouldn't be any money in it, nor would it be worth to lace drugs with anything.

Decriminalizing would change the face of the drug scene all together. More people wouldn't start using crack or heroine because they won't get arrested for it tho.

IF ANYTHING, take away felony charges from drug crimes. Even just pot, would make a huge difference.

[taylor]

I guess me asking for statistics doesn't matter. This is a conservative Christian morality thing. I've talked to older people where I live and they're against legalization simply because "drugs are bad."

Legalization of weed is likely to happen soon in liberal areas. Maybe much later you'll see legalization of psychedelics. I seriously doubt hard drugs will be legalized within our lifetime because our society is not libertarian republic. It's become a democracy which means majority rules.

I'd be fine with outlawing hard drugs if the outlawing actually helped and was cost/benefit effective. I have my doubts though.

[SeizureSideSalad]

Originally Posted by desertrat

I know Holland leagleized drugs and prostution . I have heard weed is sometimes soaked in tequilla. Caffine is a drug , but you can drive a car while drinking pepsi or coke a colla . desert rat

i've never heard of weed being soaked in tequilla... that would ruin the THC content because THC is alcohol-soluble. They do make
THC tincture, however, and for that they use a highly concentrated alcohol(everclear/moonshine) to soak up the THC.

[Bradman]

Originally Posted by ar81

Opium wars in China... Legalizing drugs after China lost the war on drugs, caused China to have a huge problem with addicts. The Mao Zedong government is generally credited with eradicating both consumption and production of opium during the 1950s. Ten million addicts were forced into compulsory treatment, dealers were executed, and opium-producing regions were planted with new crops.

What "problem" with addicts are you speaking of? What harm were they causing?