BBC Article about debt of USA

[JDuff]

BBC News - Is the US in denial over its $14tn debt?

I read this and I found it surprising for a BBC article. There's a few generalizations (and not necessarily good ones) about American people. Be interesting to hear people's comments...

[James Fletcher]

Debates over generalizations seem to be never ending, so I'll avoid the on-ramp to that particular freeway.

A few of my thoughts on the US financial jam are as follows:

- Fire Ben Bernanke and put a stop to the endless money printing.

- Raise interest rates. It will hurt a lot, people will complain - maybe even riot, who knows - but it will get the ball rolling. Better times will be ahead.

- Cut military spending abroad.

- Eliminate backward regulations on things such as small businesses.

[SnerpGoodWord]

I'm no fan of Ben Bernanke, but I don't think raising rates accomplishes much at the moment other than increasing the cost of financing the debt. At the moment I think a little inflation would be motivational. Ultimately it doesn't make sense to pay off the large portion of the debt held by foreign interest in a particularly strong dollar.

[180]

I think as the article touches the values and principals of the US has always ignored obligations.

It's not just on this macro scale but heavily on the microscale. The credit card mentality possesses every facet of the American life.

The fact is your average American is an impulsive buyer with no desire to take care of debt and instead buy more things they don't need. If I could describe America, that'd be about it. How many Americans are opposed to rising taxes? Our tax rates are the lowest compared to other developed nations, while at the same time we have some of the highest per citizen national debt.

We're constantly borrowing with no way to pay it back. Not to mention with Unemployment rates, taxing a % of nothing doesn't help either. F*** what the American people want, we NEED to tax more. I'm poor, I won't argue that, and taxes are the last thing I need. But I could pay those taxes. I wouldn't mind skipping out on a Dominio's pizza and have a few nights with instant noodles.

But that makes me different than the American public. Most people won't make a sacrifice. They aren't willing to skip a night at Bertuccis. Stop their cable, or not buy As shown on TV cutlery that cut through pennies.

WE buy DUMB SH*** And it needs to stop.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by 180

The fact is your average American is an impulsive buyer with no desire to take care of debt and instead buy more things they don't need. If I could describe America, that'd be about it.

Thanks for speaking for all of us here. Because, you know, there aren't any rational people in America. That place is whack.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by 180

I think as the article touches the values and principals of the US has always ignored obligations.

It's not just on this macro scale but heavily on the microscale. The credit card mentality possesses every facet of the American life.

The fact is your average American is an impulsive buyer with no desire to take care of debt and instead buy more things they don't need. If I could describe America, that'd be about it. How many Americans are opposed to rising taxes? Our tax rates are the lowest compared to other developed nations, while at the same time we have some of the highest per citizen national debt.

We're constantly borrowing with no way to pay it back. Not to mention with Unemployment rates, taxing a % of nothing doesn't help either. F*** what the American people want, we NEED to tax more. I'm poor, I won't argue that, and taxes are the last thing I need. But I could pay those taxes. I wouldn't mind skipping out on a Dominio's pizza and have a few nights with instant noodles.

But that makes me different than the American public. Most people won't make a sacrifice. They aren't willing to skip a night at Bertuccis. Stop their cable, or not buy As shown on TV cutlery that cut through pennies.

WE buy DUMB SH*** And it needs to stop.

Entitled. The word you're looking for is entitled.

[ar81]

US is moving from the 1930s to the 1920s, an article by blogger from a financial community.
Pasamos de los 1930 a los 1920
You may use google translator.

Not only US is not going towards a solution. It is going backwards.
The denial thing is right. I was flamed and warned by moderators in another US forum for pointing out that unemployment would be a problem in US. It was back in 2007-2008. I was called antiUS, socialist, and moderators accused me of country bashing, spamming, trolling...

And it was a forum with adults, not young people.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

Thanks for speaking for all of us here.

He did say "the average American". Not "all of you Americans".

[Vibration]

The problem isn't new; it's been around for a few decades, and many government economist have known for a long time that eventually the day would come when this can of worms couldn't be kicked down the road anymore.

I think there's a lot of truth in this quote from the article:

"it is a cultural inability to face up to hard choices, even to acknowledge that the choices are there."

If this were not true, the problem would have been solved a long time ago.

This is the Kobayashi Maru: every solution has consequences so unacceptable that society can't stomach the sacrifices needed to have the problem solved. And this situation will remain until the pain of not solving it is worse than the pain of solving it. Which means either way, the future isn't looking good.

I hope I'm wrong.

[garentee]

Its pretty simple actually.. taxing the wealthy and corporations more then they are now... There are too many tax loopholes and it is absurd to me that companies like G.E. can pay no income taxes...I would venture a guess that this is part of why we are in some deep doo-doo.I am not suggesting taxing them like they were taxed back in the 50s..(around 90%)but just bringing them in line so that the country that they live in along with the rest of us can pull through this problem.

[Acting Like Godot]

Increasing tax for your big corporations means that they have less money to pay their employees and their shareholders.

That means less money for the American people.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Increasing tax for your big corporations means that they have less money to pay their employees and their shareholders.

That means less money for the American people.

"The shareholders" is hardly "the American people".

[aelle]

Originally Posted by aelle

"The shareholders" is hardly "the American people".

“The Truth About The Economy” | Matador Network

A 2 minute video on the topic.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by aelle

"The shareholders" is hardly "the American people".

If you are an American and you have invested in any equities of an American corporation, including via ETFs or mutual funds, then my basic reasoning applies.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Increasing tax for your big corporations means that they have less money to pay their employees and their shareholders.

That means less money for the American people.

Wages have been stagnant for 30 years..Corporate executives bonuses have not ..I call BS..

[180]

Originally Posted by garentee

Its pretty simple actually.. taxing the wealthy and corporations more then they are now... There are too many tax loopholes and it is absurd to me that companies like G.E. can pay no income taxes...I would venture a guess that this is part of why we are in some deep doo-doo.I am not suggesting taxing them like they were taxed back in the 50s..(around 90%)but just bringing them in line so that the country that they live in along with the rest of us can pull through this problem.

I see what you mean, but I believe the problem lies not in taxing the rich but the exact opposite. The way corporations think now, are in terms of global economy. The reason that there are no jobs in America is because globally America is one of the least profitable areas. High rent, expensive labor, tax law, legal laws, etc. There's too much to pay to want to start any type of manufacturing in the US. IT's all gone offshore to China and India.

As for taxes, I believe taxing the citizens is in greater need. As I said, I believe the American public has already proven they are incapable of handling their finances. They spend money on things they want, not that they need. Compared to other 1st world nations, America is one of the few that doesn't have proper health care and EXPENSIVE health care. We may have some of the best medical developments but they aren't accessible. A CAT scan in America requires a large hospital, but you average small private hospital in Japan and Korea has even more advanced CAT machines and systematization computers that don't require charts or files.

Lastly, this is my opinion, but the problem of unemployment in American can be solved by reducing wages. Our minimum wage is one of the highest globally. No company wants to have production in a country that they need to pay the most. Right now, labor is not in demand, and as such our prices should drop to reflect for it.

But greedy Americans cling too tightly to labor laws and fail to see if they aren't willing to take a pay cut, they won't be able to compete globally. Who wants to pay $10 an hour to do telecom when someone in India can do it for $4?

As for taxing the wealthy, again, we live in global economies now. Most CEO's are willing to develop offshore accounts, phantom companies to circumvent taxes, etc. Taxing them, won't do anything, and worse yet, by taxing them, we encourage them to spend their money in other countries.

Ethically I agree by taxing the wealthy we can help the needy, but I don't think that's realistically what will happen. By taxing the wealthy we merely encourage them to do what they've already been doing, going to China/India/Vietnam/Korea to do their work.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by 180

I think as the article touches the values and principals of the US has always ignored obligations.

It's not just on this macro scale but heavily on the microscale. The credit card mentality possesses every facet of the American life.

The fact is your average American is an impulsive buyer with no desire to take care of debt and instead buy more things they don't need. If I could describe America, that'd be about it. How many Americans are opposed to rising taxes? Our tax rates are the lowest compared to other developed nations, while at the same time we have some of the highest per citizen national debt.

We're constantly borrowing with no way to pay it back. Not to mention with Unemployment rates, taxing a % of nothing doesn't help either. F*** what the American people want, we NEED to tax more. I'm poor, I won't argue that, and taxes are the last thing I need. But I could pay those taxes. I wouldn't mind skipping out on a Dominio's pizza and have a few nights with instant noodles.

But that makes me different than the American public. Most people won't make a sacrifice. They aren't willing to skip a night at Bertuccis. Stop their cable, or not buy As shown on TV cutlery that cut through pennies.

WE buy DUMB SH*** And it needs to stop.

Watch this:
YouTube - ‪The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class‬‏
If Americans were so compulsive, compulsive purchases would mean a bigger slice, but in the last 30 years what has been pushing Americans against the wall was expensive healthcare and mortgages. Notice this presentation was made in 2006 when there was no housing crisis and still you could see adversity showing up before American families.

Americans have been paying more for less in healthcare:
http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf
Sweden, Canada outrank U.S. on healthcare | Reuters

Americans have been deceived by those who convinced them that it was teh best system in the world.
Third World America: Drowning In Debt And Choking On Lies

Probably it has to do with cultural sense of exceptionalism as described by a paper from Georgetown university:

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/inter...ctICJPaper.pdf
the United States has innate historical and cultural characteristics that push it toward an attitude of “exceptionalism” in its foreign policy, meaning a belief that the United States formally and informally is entitled to be treated differently from other states.

The denial expressed by BBC was better described by Alejandro Nadal who write articles on economy:
La Jornada: El retorno de los brujos
You may use Google translator. He talks about the three myths of conservative economists who still enjoy people's credibility despite of their failure.

It seems that if US is going to start fixing the crisis, people need to realize about the myths and lies first. The bad news is that after that, the real economic correction that has been procrastinated by creating one bubble after another, needs to come and materialize, and it is not going to be easy.

I have been doing my homework on the fixes needed by US and reached this sad conclusion. US as a whole is right now having a worst economy than Spain.

Just look at this:
tax.com: Scary New Wage Data
It's Not A Question Of IF Sovereign Nations Will Default, But HOW

[JDuff]

What hope is there for us if America is driven to the brink of meltdown? | Will Hutton | Comment is free | The Observer

Article in the guardian about the same subject - the US government debt. Interesting.

[Rezzy7]

thanks for all the links! lot's o reading....

Originally Posted by 180

I'm poor, I won't argue that, and taxes are the last thing I need. But I could pay those taxes. I wouldn't mind skipping out on a Dominio's pizza and have a few nights with instant noodles.

But that makes me different than the American public. Most people won't make a sacrifice. They aren't willing to skip a night at Bertuccis. Stop their cable, or not buy As shown on TV cutlery that cut through pennies.

Yeah, those are things I stopped some time ago. Cancelled cable tv in 2007. Cutting back on "entertainment eating" more and more. My 3-year old phone doesn't get email or the Internet. But we surely aren't the only Americans that have scaled back. I don't have a family to worry about, and I think the tough part is for families, who before the bubble burst had already cut their overspendancies*, and then 1 or both spouses lost their job, or home foreclosed, or both. Those are in more of a pinch than me. And what are they to do?

It's simple math. Taxes, really have to go up at some point. There aren't enough things that can be cut to pay for it all. But no one wants to pay more, and no one wants to do without anything. Sounds like a plan for epic failure.



*I just made that word up, btw.