The Venus Project

[Lynn 007]

The Venus Project

Are you familar with this project? What are you thoughts?
To change a culture is a pretty big undertaking especially moving from a monetary economy to a resource based one. Too many people, use money as a scorecord on their value to society and we're worth so much more than our bank statement or assets.

I think change is required but is this it? Personally, I'm always a bit uncomfortable when I watch a tv show that focuses on food and all of our options on how to cook it where other people in the world, through no fault of their own don't know where their next meal is coming from.

I'm fairly new to this project/initiatve and I'm not sure what to make of it.

[neilward2]

Wow... I was just about to make a post on the Venus Project!

I've been watching the progress of this for a long time now and I email them regularly. I can't wait until this goes live.

I'll be the first person to drop my assets and take a place in this new world...

[neilward2]

Just incase other people aren't aware of the Venus Project... it's the work of visionary: Jacque Fresco - a 95 year old man who is 1 of the most inspiring men on the planet in my opinion.

This video gives the background of it all:

YouTube - ‪ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011‬‏

It's a long watch but 100% worth it.

[Ender22]

and just in case any of you are unaware, there is a movement that is working towards educating people about a resource based economy called "The Zeitgeist Movement"

We currently have over 500,000 members in countries around the world.
We have individual chapters in individual cities in countries around the globe.
We are in the education phase raising awareness about these ideas and our societies need for change.
We host Z day every year in countless venues over countless countries.
In September we will have our first worldwide music festivals.

Work with us and help us to educate people towards change!

[Andrew Gubb]

I've never been convinced by it. It seems all for show, nothing they've proposed has really struck me as like "oh, now THAT'S a good idea".

It'd be nice just to start a political party made up of people who actually have intentions to help. Seeing as politics is full of people who are looking out for their selfish gain, this would be a revolution in itself.

I mean it's not like the things we need to do to change things are that revolutionary. Consolidate a union between nations and reduce the possibility of war. Rechannel war expenses into helping the poor. Get people off the street.

It's easy stuff, it's just not being done because, at least in politics, there isn't the will.

[newmark]

What a scary view of the future!

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by newmark

What a scary view of the future!

Could you elaborate on why this frightens you?

[James Fletcher]

To me, the whole Zeitgeist/Venus movement represents another problem in itself.

Not only is it the blatantly obvious Marxist/communist undertone of the entire concept - which no amount of "scientific rhetoric" or computer generated imagery of giant versions of EPCOT is going to convince me otherwise.

What troubles me the most is this pervading idea that we, humans, and our civilization, are broken and need to be fixed, or else.

You know what, I love shopping. I love a good pair of designer jeans, or sunglasses. That doesn't mean that I support the existence of sweatshops, or that I think its right that there are people in the world starving to death. I am also aware that I cannot take my possessions with me when I die, but I am enjoying them now, that's what matters to me.

I'm also an avid consumer of media, be it books, news articles, movies, cartoons, music. This doesn't mean that I take pleasure in detachment or isolation. Technology may be distracting, but it doesn't physically prevent us from starting a conversation with someone!

I will take the civilization in which I am currently living over a socially engineered people's republic any day. God Bless the USA - or in my case, Advance Australia!

... unless of course it's my face on the propaganda billboards, there's a town somewhere named 'Fletchergrad' with seven foot statues of me in town squares, and people are calling me the Comrade.

[newmark]

Idealistic utopian dreams that are not based on a knowledge of human nature frighten me.

One example would be creating a language in which there is no personal interpretation. Obviously impossible, but just for the man to believe it's possible and try to promote the idea shows where this is going. I do believe that we can have a better future on this planet, but it must come from within people, not be dictated to them.

[Mariana Trench]

Originally Posted by newmark

What a scary view of the future!

It in itself is not scary, but it's likely failure at implementation would be. I doubt this is a "human nature" issue but more of an issue of not understanding the complexities of our global civilization. As Brutha has said on another thread--too much centralization does not work. Clearly though, if ideas like this can even be dreamt of, there's more than one "human nature".

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by newmark

Idealistic utopian dreams that are not based on a knowledge of human nature frighten me.

One example would be creating a language in which there is no personal interpretation. Obviously impossible, but just for the man to believe it's possible and try to promote the idea shows where this is going. I do believe that we can have a better future on this planet, but it must come from within people, not be dictated to them.

And what is your idea of what constitutes human nature? What is being ignored by the Venus Project in regards to some primal initiative?

[newmark]

The creator of the Venus Project talks about a language in which there is no personal interpretation. It is human nature for individuals to interpret the world as they see it - not according to an idealistic crusade. Therefore a language in which there is no room for personal interpretation seems very much against human nature.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by newmark

The creator of the Venus Project talks about a language in which there is no personal interpretation. It is human nature for individuals to interpret the world as they see it - not according to an idealistic crusade. Therefore a language in which there is no room for personal interpretation seems very much against human nature.

Mathematics is a language wherein there is no room for personal interpretation. Would you call math antithetical to 'human nature'?

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Mathematics is a language wherein there is no room for personal interpretation. Would you call math antithetical to 'human nature'?

Mathematics is likely the purest language we know or are likely to find; bravo on your connection.

But from experience I'd say that in mathematics there is still room for personal interpretation. It's incomplete without context; I can't tell you how many times I've solved a math problem only to realize that I was solving the wrong problem, or from the wrong perspective.

Thoughts?

[Brutha]

The creator of the Venus Project talks about a language in which there is no personal interpretation.

There a good chance that this refers to lobjan.
There are some advantages of the idea but it's hard to teach everyone a new language.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Mathematics is likely the purest language we know or are likely to find; bravo on your connection.

But from experience I'd say that in mathematics there is still room for personal interpretation. It's incomplete without context; I can't tell you how many times I've solved a math problem only to realize that I was solving the wrong problem, or from the wrong perspective.

Thoughts?

So basically capacity for personal interpretation is infinite, therefore to argue that it is a useless endeavor to communicate based on this infinite nature of perception might be a good reason to become a hermit but it's reductio ad absurdium to try and apply this argument as a reason to why teaching everyone a new language will not work.

[newmark]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

Mathematics is a language wherein there is no room for personal interpretation. Would you call math antithetical to 'human nature'?

Mathematics is useful to humans and is not 'antithetical to human nature when it's used in technology to help us build better machines and tools.

But to create a society in which a math based language was designed to control behavior would be. If that is actually what he's talking about. It's hard to know exactly what the creator of the project does mean, as he talks in generalities and gives few concrete examples.

There have been too many idealistic visions in human history which have resulted in too much suffering. I understand that the Venus Project will most likely never gain enough support to become one of them; however, it's still an unpleasant dream. The name is apt, taken from one of the most inhospitable planets in the solar system.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by newmark

The name is apt, taken from one of the most inhospitable planets in the solar system.

Teehee, I like that.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

So basically capacity for personal interpretation is infinite, therefore to argue that it is a useless endeavor to communicate based on this infinite nature of perception might be a good reason to become a hermit but it's reductio ad absurdium to try and apply this argument as a reason to why teaching everyone a new language will not work.

Fair point. The language could succeed regardless .

If anything I like the fact that the Venus project is making people ask these questions. I think they'd get a lot more support if they released more concrete plans for "resource distribution" but I guess there would just be more material to shoot holes in.