Why is maternity leave almost always longer than paternity leave?

[nietsdoen]

This has confused me for quite some time.

Do people even see this as a problem that needs to be fixed, or merely 'natural'?

I'm interested in hearing your opinions as well as information on whether people are trying to change this.

[RedRain]

I've never heard of paternity leave.

Men don't have to nurse.

[ssandra]

Because 1. equality is still a long way off
and 2. women need to recover after giving birth....

[Clover]

Because men don't give birth or breastfeed!

[beast]

Originally Posted by Clover

Because men don't give birth or breastfeed!

Seems like an obvious answer to me, too!

[aelle]

In many places, this leave is legally split between a medically necessary birthing leave (which obviously concerns the birth mother) and a maternity leave for the purpose of taking care of the infant. Adopting parents get the second one too.

Women do often need to rest after birthing, but I'm pretty sure it'd be easier if they could actually rest, by having the second half of the parenting unit do the bulk of the work. And I actually know a family where it works like this - with a stay at home dad, and a mother who goes back to work as soon as she physically can. They're on kid number 5.

As always, I believe we're better off if people are truly free to choose what works best for them.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

This has confused me for quite some time.

Do people even see this as a problem that needs to be fixed, or merely 'natural'?

I'm interested in hearing your opinions as well as information on whether people are trying to change this.

For who(m) do you think that this is a problem?

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Elrond

For who(m) do you think that this is a problem?

For fathers who want to take care of their children without necessarily giving up their career?

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

I do think women should just naturally get an extra 6 weeks on top of paternity leave, but the amount of FML (family and medical leave) that is allotted to people through federal mandate is atrocious, simply absurd. Way to destroy the fabric of families and force new mothers to have hysterical breakdowns. I've seen it happen too many times to count at la leche league meetings.

Also, if a business has less than x number of employees, they don't even have to follow the federal regulations surrounding maternity leave.

But yeah, the 6 extra weeks - because (a) pregnancy and childbirth is not a fair act, inherently and (b) it takes that long for the lochia to finish flowing, or bloody discharge from the uterus that is still retracting to normal size and a cervix that is still open and prone to infection and (c) women are not supposed to be walking around after giving birth vaginally for at least 2 weeks.

I just think an extra 6 weeks off on top of a minimum of 24 weeks of family medical leave would be a nice way to say "thanks, women, for giving birth to human beings."

Oh, also the extra time would be nice because of breastfeeding issues, and moms are usually the primary caregivers of other people in the family besides just the children...

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

and (c) women are not supposed to be walking around after giving birth vaginally for at least 2 weeks.

really? I didn't know that...

I agree with Aelle though... besides the mandatory leave for women to feel better and to heal, it would be great if parents could choose who takes care of the kids...

[Lynn 007]

I can only comment on my company. Women are given 52 weeks off with 80% pay but if a man father's a child and his wife does not work for the company he is entitled to 6 months patenity leave with 80% pay. Whatever works for both of them is between them. If by chance both of them work for the company; he is still entitled to 6 month leave with 80% pay.

[nietsdoen]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Oh, also the extra time would be nice because of breastfeeding issues, and moms are usually the primary caregivers of other people in the family besides just the children...

Well, this is what I'm talking about. Is it just expected that women do more caregiving, and thus need more time?

Originally Posted by Lynn 007

I can only comment on my company. Women are given 52 weeks off with 80% pay but if a man father's a child and his wife does not work for the company he is entitled to 6 months patenity leave with 80% pay. Whatever works for both of them is between them. If by chance both of them work for the company; he is still entitled to 6 month leave with 80% pay.

This is the sort of thing I don't understand. Women don't need 52 weeks to recover from birth, and they don't even need 6 months more than men due to physical recovery. So why is it they get so much more extra time?

[nietsdoen]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I agree with Aelle though... besides the mandatory leave for women to feel better and to heal, it would be great if parents could choose who takes care of the kids...

Exactly. Women seem to be given more time by default, rather than physical necessity. I see that some of the extra time is due to physical necessity, but not all of it.

[Lynn 007]

Time off, is not necessarily determined by birth but time for bonding. Even if you adopt a child you are entitled to a mimum of 6 month off with 80% pay to bond with your child.

[beast]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

Exactly. Women seem to be given more time by default, rather than physical necessity. I see that some of the extra time is due to physical necessity, but not all of it.

Do you think women should be given less time off?

[aelle]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

This is the sort of thing I don't understand. Women don't need 52 weeks to recover from birth, and they don't even need 6 months more than men due to physical recovery. So why is it they get so much more extra time?

Even with the inequalities, I find Lynn's situation pretty badass. I get 90 days to split however I want/can before and after the birth, which pretty much means that if I want a child I'll have to quit that job. No way I'd leave a 6 week old infant alone.
Of course it would be ideal if the father had the same options, but offering a one year leave for the mother means that women have a much better chance at staying employed.

[beast]

Lynn, which country are you based in?

[nietsdoen]

Originally Posted by beast

Do you think women should be given less time off?

Equal..

[nietsdoen]

Originally Posted by aelle

Of course it would be ideal if the father had the same options, but offering a one year leave for the mother means that women have a much better chance at staying employed.

Explain?

[aelle]

Well it's simple: the leave I'm offered (90 days total, so probably 4 to 6 weeks after birth) is just incompatible with having a child.
Babies should ideally breastfeed exclusively until 6 months old, just to name one reason. Can they even have the full round of shots necessary to attend daycare by week 6? I can't afford a full time nanny, nor do I have a mother or in-law next door to take care of my baby.

So if I were to get pregnant, I would take my 90 days and then quit my job (screwing my boss over in the process, by the way). And then however many months, years down the road, when I try to find a new job, I'd have to justify my choice, compete with candidate who don't have this year-long gap in their resume... Lynn would simply go back to her old position.

[nietsdoen]

Originally Posted by aelle

Well it's simple: the leave I'm offered (90 days total, so probably 4 to 6 weeks after birth) is just incompatible with having a child.
Babies should ideally breastfeed exclusively until 6 months old, just to name one reason. Can they even have the full round of shots necessary to attend daycare by week 6? I can't afford a full time nanny, nor do I have a mother or in-law next door to take care of my baby.

So if I were to get pregnant, I would take my 90 days and then quit my job (screwing my boss over in the process, by the way). And then however many months, years down the road, when I try to find a new job, I'd have to justify my choice, compete with candidate who don't have this year-long gap in their resume... Lynn would simply go back to her old position.

Of course.. but if you're going to offer a woman 6 months or a year, there should be an option for the father to get the same leave amount (either the mother or the father gets the long leave).

In terms of breastfeeding, I understand the point of view. However, I don't see much difference between a woman feeding the baby from her breast and pumping milk and giving that to her husband. Except that in the first scenario the baby bonds more with the mother, but I don't see much benefit in being more attached to one parent.

[Lynn 007]

I am in Canada

The birth of a child is a big deal and we supprt that.......or so it seems. I am childless by choice but the government really supports the "bonding" period or the early years of a a newborn. It really doesn't matter how you obtained a baby; whether through natural childbrith or adoption you should be entitled to time with them during the ealy years to help them flourish.

[Michael Chui]

Actually, paternity leave is the same as maternity leave in Sweden.

Parental leave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[aelle]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

Of course.. but if you're going to offer a woman 6 months or a year, there should be an option for the father to get the same leave amount (either the mother or the father gets the long leave).

Yes, absolutely. What I'm saying is that even with the inequalities, offering a long leave (even if it's just to the mother) is better for women than a short leave, even if that leave were equally shared or could be taken by either parent.

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

In terms of breastfeeding, I understand the point of view. However, I don't see much difference between a woman feeding the baby from her breast and pumping milk and giving that to her husband. Except that in the first scenario the baby bonds more with the mother, but I don't see much benefit in being more attached to one parent.

Pumping is already hard enough in a 9 to 5 office environment... how do you do it if you are a salesperson? A teacher? A tourguide, a taxi driver? If like me your job is to visit industrial sites all day??

[beast]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

Equal..

Sorry, I will rephrase the question. Do you think women should be given less time off than they currently receive?

I'm with Lakshy here, FWIW. Pregnancy and childbirth aren't fair acts; women bear the burden of these, and I think maternity leave should reflect that, and honor mothers for the work they do. I also hope to someday be able to breastfeed, at least for the first two years of my children's lives.

[beast]

Originally Posted by nietsdoen

Of course.. but if you're going to offer a woman 6 months or a year, there should be an option for the father to get the same leave amount (either the mother or the father gets the long leave).

Most businesses could not afford to do this. How would you propose a business pay for a year's worth of paternity leave for a man, when many are unwilling/unable to provide adequate maternity leave?

In terms of breastfeeding, I understand the point of view. However, I don't see much difference between a woman feeding the baby from her breast and pumping milk and giving that to her husband. Except that in the first scenario the baby bonds more with the mother, but I don't see much benefit in being more attached to one parent.

I'd like some mothers, who have actually breastfed their children, to weigh in on this.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by beast

Most businesses could not afford to do this. How would you propose a business pay for a year's worth of paternity leave for a man, when many are unwilling/unable to provide adequate maternity leave?

I think this is typically an area where government intervention is necessary. Where governments should step in and say: "we recognize that for our society natality is important, and that it is equally important to keep qualified, productive women in the workforce. Therefore we will not just legally enforce maternity leaves, but also shoulder, collectively, at least part of the ecomonical burden."

But of course I'm a dirty pinko who believes in working collectively for the greater good and the greater freedom of all.

[beast]

Originally Posted by aelle

I think this is typically an area where government intervention is necessary. Where governments should step in and say: "we recognize that for our society natality is important, and that it is equally important to keep qualified, productive women in the workforce. Therefore we will not just legally enforce maternity leaves, but also shoulder, collectively, at least part of the ecomonical burden."

But of course I'm a dirty pinko who believes in working collectively for the greater good and the greater freedom of all.

I'm inclined to agree, but as it is now, many small US businesses would just not be able to absorb the cost of extending paternity benefits. I think it would be wonderful if men and women both received better family leave benefits, but as it stands now, making them "equal" isn't the top priority to me.

[nietsdoen]

Originally Posted by aelle

Pumping is already hard enough in a 9 to 5 office environment... how do you do it if you are a salesperson? A teacher? A tourguide, a taxi driver? If like me your job is to visit industrial sites all day??

Can men breastfeed?

In 2002, there was the reported case of Mr. B. Wijeratne from Sri Lanka. He began breastfeeding his daughter after his wife had died. The baby initially rejected all forms of replacement nutrients, such as powdered milk. In desperation, he eventually offered his own breast and the baby began to ingest effectively.

Another example is the experience of David Livingstone, the traveller. He was moving through Scotland when he came across a male whose breast offered milk. The man’s wife had been put to death and – in desperation – he tried to breastfeed his son. As a result, the breast started producing milk and the son survived.

I heard from my anthropology teacher that there are some cultures as well where some men breastfeed the children rather than the women. Men have milk ducts, too; they just need to be activated.

[beast]

...you think men breastfeeding is a viable solution?