Moving Forward

[TaoPath]

I've been watching the new Zeitgeist movie and about 60ish mins into it begins discussing how to re-shape our attitude to the Earth to make it sustainable. Very interesting and a must watch for anyone interested in how we can live in harmony with the planet

YouTube - ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD

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[MariconesUnited]

I watched it a couple of days ago. I must say Peter Joseph is really improving and mastering his art! I had chills near the end.

But I do still feel there's something missing. The spiritual side of the equation. Maybe it's ignored because to them "helping others" is natural, but a lot of us have been indoctrinated towards selfishness and individualism. That's what the current system currently promotes. I think taking responsibility for one's actions and attitudes towards life is paramount to the success of their goals and visions.

I'm on board

[TaoPath]

It may scare the masses from getting on board if it did, the spiritual side should be the by-product nonetheless: Healthy; mind body and soul leads to one direction imo

…. and anyway, anyone who is already spiritual doesn’t need it spelt out for them

Glad you're on board...lets hope the rest of planet sees the benefits too

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[MariconesUnited]

It's an interesting approach; working from the external to the internal. In my experience internal towards external has been more effective. But that's just me. When you say that it may turn people off, I think you have a point, but it's a double-edged sword. Most of us have a longing to make a difference, to make a contribution, to find deeper meaning. When Peter Joseph dismisses the Bible and gives no alternative I think he's missing an opportunity.

It's a very large and profound project. For it to work, we'll need the cooperation of a majority of people. That's why it's important to find a variety of angles that all point towards the same direction.

And now I'm wondering what I can do to contribute. Ideas? Suggestions?

[TaoPath]

I’ve been thinking how I can contribute for a while

What I remember seeing from a perspective of my past self, when I saw campaigns and groups delivering their message there is hesitation to get involved on some level. Not sure if it’s an in/out group thing, but from a psychological and societal point of view, people who are different from us in regards to attitude and behaviour, we tend to be a bit apprehensive towards. Or it's just laziness.

I think bridging this gap is the key for some reason. I haven’t come up with any solutions but as a species we are severely (not speaking for everyone) detached from one another. We see everyone as separate, a danger and the more we think this, the more messages will be ignored (to the larger population).

I always joked a few years ago that the best thing to happen to the planet was if aliens showed themselves as then, finally we would all be united (Human vs alien mentality) . This is still not healthy btw but makes a point how something so drastic would have to occur for the human race to see everyone as the same and to work together.

It's a shame, that we as the collective human race, have to hit breaking point before we realise that massive change needs to happen. Once we’re at that point however it could be too late

I would love to hear ideas to inspire me with thoughts on how I can promote change as well. Local vs Global? Narrow message vs Broad message?

The strange thing is, a few weeks ago I had a dream and was told to look for a girl named Mead in it. A day later I found this quote while looking for something else (it was also in the film at some point)

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead

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[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by TaoPath

I’ve been thinking how I can contribute for a while

What I remember seeing from a perspective of my past self, when I saw campaigns and groups delivering their message there is hesitation to get involved on some level. Not sure if it’s an in/out group thing, but from a psychological and societal point of view, people who are different from us in regards to attitude and behaviour, we tend to be a bit apprehensive towards. Or it's just laziness.

I think bridging this gap is the key for some reason. I haven’t come up with any solutions but as a species we are severely (not speaking for everyone) detached from one another. We see everyone as separate, a danger and the more we think this, the more messages will be ignored (to the larger population).

I always joked a few years ago that the best thing to happen to the planet was if aliens showed themselves as then, finally we would all be united (Human vs alien mentality) . This is still not healthy btw but makes a point how something so drastic would have to occur for the human race to see everyone as the same and to work together.

It's a shame, that we as the collective human race, have to hit breaking point before we realise that massive change needs to happen. Once we’re at that point however it could be too late

I would love to hear ideas to inspire me with thoughts on how I can promote change as well. Local vs Global? Narrow message vs Broad message?

The strange thing is, a few weeks ago I had a dream and was told to look for a girl named Mead in it. A day later I found this quote while looking for something else (it was also in the film at some point)



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Wow that's amazing! I'm thinking of making videos. That's one idea. And I think we need to focus on aspects that unite us. It's somewhat going against the current trend...If you take a moment to watch TV or mainstream culture, everything is designed to be loud and contrarian. But I've always been more interested in setting trends anyway

[Hailey1313]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

When Peter Joseph dismisses the Bible and gives no alternative I think he's missing an opportunity.

I think the reason that organized religion is dismissed is because of the level of ego involved in religion (in-group, out-group), which causes division. The ZM is a philosophy, that when put into action, will require the majority of the people to be of like mind, not segregating themselves from others. This is not a Christian issue, a Muslim issue, etc. This is a HUMANITY issue. Which means, regardless of your faith/beliefs, we all are affected by the way our current global economy/consumerism system runs.

If we, as a species, cannot find common ground, this will not work. It is this same reason that I wonder why we think it could work. This is a huge, mind-blowing concept, when all the mini-concepts come together, how do you really get people to listen to you, right?

[russianrocket]

I watched it, and it's never going to work. If it would, then they would have given solutions and presented goals, but they didn't. They said how it should be, and what's wrong with how it is, but nothing in between. People are always going to want power. You aren't going to change that, ever. Someone will be in charge, and someone will not want to have someone in charge of them. Power corrupts absolutely. The people in charge would have to be the purest most caring and ethically moral people around, who are also smart enough to handle everything. What about population? It will increase and increase, but they never explained how that could be handled in their utopia.

You aren't going to get people to all want the exact same products. But, the only way for their goal to work is if every company makes the same type of product, and as they explained, every single part would be universal and would work in every product. There could not be any brands, or companies. No one would even want to create companies to make products. Yes, certain people like the wright brothers innovated, and created something remarkable, but the ONLY reason airplanes were made after they created one that worked, is money. They act like money is a new thing. It's not. They have been doing it for thousands of years. If not money, then shells, and other things. Some were of value in and of themselves. Value in it's use, or value given to it, such as gold.

I pretty much agree with every single thing they find wrong with the world. All the reasons for it, etc etc. But that's where the dream ends. People, human beings, individuals, will NEVER give up their money, their things, their uniqueness. No one is going to allow others to tell them just which products should be produced, and which products are only our wants, and won't be produced. The whole planet would have to evolve within a few decades, for this to occur. It is just like communism, socialism, Marxism. What are they gonna do with the people who rebel ? The ones that no matter how much they try and change them, they won't change? Mind control? The only way to create a docile vicilization the way they describe it, is through control. Someone will be in charge.

To bring up religious cultures, as examples of how people can get along with each other with out crime or money? Someone is still in charge, and the person in charge gets their information from god. It is about rules, that are either arbitrary, or made up by someone. They are not doing it because they want to. They are acting like that because it's their religion, and they have laws passed down to them from their god. Non of them dare contradict or go against their leaders, or they will be kicked out of the tribe. It's a fear of spiritual or literal death.

Sorry, there will always be poor, and rich. there's no way on earth anyone can guarantee an equal outcome for all. Eugenics, let's breed a prefect man, as if he was a cow. Wouldn't that be great.... cause as far as I see it, Eugenics is the only way to get there. The only direction this will lead, is into a "Gattaca" society.

[Hailey1313]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

If it would, then they would have given solutions and presented goals, but they didn't.

Actually, solutions are offered: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/...n-GB&Itemid=50

I understand what you're saying though, and I tend to agree that humanity isn't capable of making the transition.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Hailey1313

Actually, solutions are offered: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/...n-GB&Itemid=50

I understand what you're saying though, and I tend to agree that humanity isn't capable of making the transition.

I don't have time to read that site, but I will when I get a chance. From their video, I can only assume they give advice on what people should do. Probably straight forward advice. What they don't give you as solutions ( correct me if I'm wrong) is what can be done to actually change governments and corporations and banks. With out that one key, they might make a few little cities here and there for themselves, and have people live better lives with the advice they give out, but it will NEVER get to that. Humanity is just not capable of it at the moment, as you have said.

[Hailey1313]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I don't have time to read that site, but I will when I get a chance. From their video, I can only assume they give advice on what people should do. Probably straight forward advice. What they don't give you as solutions ( correct me if I'm wrong) is what can be done to actually change governments and corporations and banks. With out that one key, they might make a few little cities here and there for themselves, and have people live better lives with the advice they give out, but it will NEVER get to that. Humanity is just not capable of it at the moment, as you have said.

It would take complete collapse of the monetary system and those in power not being able to cover it up for anyone to realize how bad things are. Sadly, the ship has to go down, before anyone decides to act on the crisis.

[DeniseG]

Originally Posted by Hailey1313

It would take complete collapse of the monetary system and those in power not being able to cover it up for anyone to realize how bad things are. Sadly, the ship has to go down, before anyone decides to act on the crisis.

What a dream come true! But I don't think that will ever happen, for if the monetary system collapses, and if the emperors are shown without their clothes, who would the sheep follow? The majority of people need to be led, and they don't really want to know how bad things are, or how crooked the powers that be are. It's too scary.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by DeniseG

What a dream come true! But I don't think that will ever happen, for if the monetary system collapses, and if the emperors are shown without their clothes, who would the sheep follow? The majority of people need to be led, and they don't really want to know how bad things are, or how crooked the powers that be are. It's too scary.

What would you do right now, if this minute, the monetary system collapses?
You wouldn't be on the computer. You wouldn't be going to your super market, in your car, that uses gas, so that you could get your food. Would you be able to survive?
Don't think your life coaching business would work anymore
Millions of people would be dead rather quickly.

[Ender22]

I watched it, and it's never going to work. If it would, then they would have given solutions and presented goals, but they didn't. They said how it should be, and what's wrong with how it is, but nothing in between. People are always going to want power. You aren't going to change that, ever. Someone will be in charge, and someone will not want to have someone in charge of them. Power corrupts absolutely. The people in charge would have to be the purest most caring and ethically moral people around, who are also smart enough to handle everything. What about population? It will increase and increase, but they never explained how that could be handled in their utopia.

In a resource based economy there will be no 'elite' group that is in charge of everything. There will be no politics or the like. Instead the worlds resources and production and all that will be handled by the advanced computer systems they described in the new earth section. These systems are based on science and not on opinion, so nothing can be corrupt and no morals need to come into play.

You aren't going to get people to all want the exact same products. But, the only way for their goal to work is if every company makes the same type of product, and as they explained, every single part would be universal and would work in every product. There could not be any brands, or companies. No one would even want to create companies to make products. Yes, certain people like the wright brothers innovated, and created something remarkable, but the ONLY reason airplanes were made after they created one that worked, is money. They act like money is a new thing. It's not. They have been doing it for thousands of years. If not money, then shells, and other things. Some were of value in and of themselves. Value in it's use, or value given to it, such as gold.

We don't need to 'get' people to want anything. Firstly peoples opinions of what they want is always taken into account by the online systems where perhaps anyone can log in and talk about their needs. I don't think they mean that only 1 of every type of product will be created... If you want a guitar for example... theres not going to be only 1 size and shape of guitar... there will be all kinds... why wouldnt there be? In this type of system it would be really easy to manufacture different models for different needs and desires. Plus as 3d printing becomes more popular very soon, it will be easy for everyone to have a 3rd printer in their home... then all they need to do is download the 3d model for whatever object they want... or create their own customized version... then print it themselves... Of course in this system the only reasons airplanes were massed produced is because of money... thats because they cant possibly be mass produced in a monetary system unless there is monetary reward.... otherwize you will go broke from producing them. But are you really suggesting in a system with no money... that if someone invented something as useful as an airplane... that it wouldnt be produced?? why wouldnt it?? the computer system would weigh its cost of resourced based with its usefulness based with the desire of the people and then if it is worthy it would be produced.

I pretty much agree with every single thing they find wrong with the world. All the reasons for it, etc etc. But that's where the dream ends. People, human beings, individuals, will NEVER give up their money, their things, their uniqueness. No one is going to allow others to tell them just which products should be produced, and which products are only our wants, and won't be produced. The whole planet would have to evolve within a few decades, for this to occur. It is just like communism, socialism, Marxism. What are they gonna do with the people who rebel ? The ones that no matter how much they try and change them, they won't change? Mind control? The only way to create a docile vicilization the way they describe it, is through control. Someone will be in charge.

In this system everyones opinion can be taken into account with online mediums. No one is forced to give up anything or do anything. and if everything is provided in abundance... then no one needs to give up anything... and they can keep all their money... it just wont be necessary or have any worth... because everything is free... No one needs to be in charge... theres no punishment for rebelling... because what will a rebel really do? hoard a bunch of free stuff? oh well? we just focus on creating more and more abundance... then it doesnt matter.... and after a single generation in this new system, any residual value system disorders will have passed and these people.... who arent really a problem anyway... wont be around anymore.

To bring up religious cultures, as examples of how people can get along with each other with out crime or money? Someone is still in charge, and the person in charge gets their information from god. It is about rules, that are either arbitrary, or made up by someone. They are not doing it because they want to. They are acting like that because it's their religion, and they have laws passed down to them from their god. Non of them dare contradict or go against their leaders, or they will be kicked out of the tribe. It's a fear of spiritual or literal death.

This is why for us... only the scientific method is used... it is free from opinion, or bias or faulty logic, or so called words from god.

I think your biggest misunderstanding is that in a RBE everything will lose its uniqueness and become the same... beleive me, if you want a new pair of jeans there isnt just going to be 1 pair of jeans with one color to choose from... there will be all the selection there is today... just perhaps without the brand names on them which really serve no purpose what so ever. There will possibily be even more customization than ever, as with new technology and no restriction of money you could simply program the design for the jeans you want into the computer and get that one shipped to your house.

And also that there is no elite group of powerful people running everything in a RBE and telling others what to do.

I agree however that the hardest thing about implementing a RBE is that there are no be all end all hard coded plans for the transition. This is because its completely impossible to predict with any degree of certainty and without personal bias. All thats needed however is to have the majority of the people wanting it...

The collapse of the current system is inevitable... from our wasted resources to the over population to our technological unemployment, to the inherit flaws with the monetary system, and the fact that all money is created from debt (with interest) it simply pretty much just has to happen... what proceeds from then however will either be total chaos and government control and poverty and death and sadness... or a enough people can get on board and bring about a new system free from this sick flawed monetary one.

the choice is ours... lets become the change we want to see in the world. thanks for debating the ideas I'd love to hear your opinion to my comments.