Irrational / Unessesary Appearance Beliefs

[roxyruby]

Presidents, Politicians, Office Workers, and Business People etc would still get the same work done whether they were dressed in pyjamas or they were naked.

Perhaps they only dress as they do because of irrational appearance beliefs or cause of fear of the people that hold those beliefs. (prejudice / abuse/ stigma / rejection) (also laws and rules)

Professionalism is an attitude and behavior not an appearance. Civilized just means an organized population, not an appearance.

[Angela]

Pajamas, yes (my clothes are pretty pajamaesque), but I don't think I'd get as much done naked, cuz I think I'd be concerned about protecting some of my tender bits -- like my feet.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

Presidents, Politicians, Office Workers, and Business People etc would still get the same work done whether they were dressed in pyjamas or they were naked.

Perhaps they only dress as they do because of irrational appearance beliefs or cause of fear of the people that hold those beliefs. (prejudice / abuse/ stigma / rejection) (also laws and rules)

Professionalism is an attitude and behavior not an appearance. Civilized just means an organized population, not an appearance.

I think you are underestimating what appearance means....

The right type of clothes convey a message about who you are. That doesn't mean that you clothes are you, but the tell the message for you.

Therefor, being in a business suit tells the people you are in business with that you are professional, which is what most people are looking for in a business partner.

I don't understand what you have against this...? I honestly do not see your point?

[mikej]

Do all businessmen and women wear a suit?

Richard Branson never seems to.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

Presidents, Politicians, Office Workers, and Business People etc would still get the same work done whether they were dressed in pyjamas or they were naked.

Actually, no. They would get fired...


But in all seriousness; back when I was working in sales, we had once a month casual Friday. Just jeans and t-shirt instead of business outfits.

You'd think that that wouldn't make a difference.... But it does. Productivity went down, and I felt it myself as well. When dressed in a business like manner, you assume the identity of business. When dressed in pyama's you have a more lazy, sleepy type of identity.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by ssandra

When dressed in pyama's you have a more lazy, sleepy type of identity.

Not me! I move faster and feel much more motivated and alert in pajama-style clothes than I do in businessy clothes.

Lazy and sleepy times is for nakedness.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Angela

Not me! I move faster and feel much more motivated and alert in pajama-style clothes than I do in businessy clothes.

Lazy and sleepy times is for nakedness.

Ah ok. I was considering that most of the time when people are in pyama's is because they use it to sleep...

[elucidate]

I used to always laugh when I'd see men in suits acting proffessional, when I was your age Roxy.

I just found the whole concept of the tie to be a bit silly. I mean, it's like a little bib they wear which keeps them all choked up around the neck area. It never seemed "proffessional" to me, just ridiculous.

Wouldn't it make more sense to not tie something that close to your windpipe, so you can breath, especially if you need to think on your feet, or present ideas that require your brain to be functioning well?

They always seem like they are so stuffy wearing them...but that is how it is perceived in the business world, that someone is smart and refined, because they wear a bib around their neck.

I never got it?

[Fred Tracy]

I think the ideas of professionalism and required dress in general are just silly. Here's a cool little tidbit though.

In Power vs Force, they did a bunch of muscle testing to see when people would go "strong" and "weak". Strong means good, or true. Weak is the opposite - negative, greedy, whatever. Regardless of any other external factors, when someone would put on a business suit, they would always go weak.

It appears that the nature of the business suit (greedy?) is so ingrained into our psyches that even when honest people put them on, they step into a not-so-honest role. Or that's what I got out of it, anyhow.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Fred Tracy

I think the ideas of professionalism and required dress in general are just silly. Here's a cool little tidbit though.

In Power vs Force, they did a bunch of muscle testing to see when people would go "strong" and "weak". Strong means good, or true. Weak is the opposite - negative, greedy, whatever. Regardless of any other external factors, when someone would put on a business suit, they would always go weak.

It appears that the nature of the business suit (greedy?) is so ingrained into our psyches that even when honest people put them on, they step into a not-so-honest role. Or that's what I got out of it, anyhow.

It is intrinsically tied in with the whole Capitalist credo.

[Alstar]

Business suits are completely and utterly moronic, in my humble view. They're not comfortable, they don't look that great, they're expensive, the pockets are large and unsecure, they stain and tear easily. Don't even get me started on ties.

Saying that, the power that symbols hold is undeniable. Business suits have powerful symbolism, whether you're looking at them or wearing them. A company could certainly try and eliminate the need for them, but they would do so at the risk of efficiency and professionalism.

I, myself, have business suit attire and they are an integral part of my daily routine. I use them as dinner cloths, a job which they fulfil above and beyond my expectations. The best part is that they're so stained with food I couldn't possibly wear them again.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Alstar

Business suits are completely and utterly moronic, in my humble view. They're not comfortable, they don't look that great, they're expensive, the pockets are large and unsecure, they stain and tear easily. Don't even get me started on ties.

Couldn't agree more. The term "I love a man in a well made suit" just doesn't apply to me.

Saying that, the power that symbols hold is undeniable. Business suits have powerful symbolism, whether you're looking at them or wearing them. A company could certainly try and eliminate the need for them, but they would do so at the risk of efficiency and professionalism.

I do see what Ssandra was saying, and I'm sure they help to transition the persons mindstate from who they are out of work, to their role at work, when they put on a suit. It's the same for a magician. He/she will put on special attire to help assist them to move into the world between worlds they aim to be in for any ritual work. Clothes can be an essential part of that.

I, myself, have business suit attire and they are an integral part of my daily routine. I use them as dinner cloths, a job which they fulfil above and beyond my expectations. The best part is that they're so stained with food I couldn't possibly wear them again.

Seriously? That's funny.

[roxyruby]

So people need to wear a busines suit to be taken seriously?

What about leaders and politicians from differently dressed cultures or countries?

There is nothing wrong with wearing a business suit, I guess I mean, It does not seem kind that our appearance is controlled by fear and punishments when it's just appearance? First of all, if this philosophy didn't exist, people who are not as wealthy as others could avoid the stress of "having to" buy such and such outfit or suit when they don't have enough money too, and people could be free to leave or express their appearance as they like.

appearance it isn't the important part of a job or business, which is the actual job or actual business, not 'dressing in a certain appearance?'

Unless conformity and looking all the same is what people want.

yes there could be practical reasons...but a suit does not necesseraly tell you anything. Yes a suit says "Important" I guess, but isn't everyones knowledge, skills, and opinions important regardless of their outfit or appearance? And you cannot tell the job a person with a business suit does, it could be anything from politician to businessperson to teacher...so a business suit does not really make it clear what role the person is playing

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by ssandra

You'd think that that wouldn't make a difference.... But it does. Productivity went down, and I felt it myself as well. When dressed in a business like manner, you assume the identity of business. When dressed in pyama's you have a more lazy, sleepy type of identity.

Hmmmm, I disagree! I work from home and quite often I don't bother getting out of my PJs before midday (my most productive work period). Sometimes I don't even bother getting out of bed (yay for laptops!). But I'm pretty sure that if I showed up for a meeting with a new client dressed in my jim-jams, they would perceive me as lazy and low-quality, despite the fact that it is my everyday productive workwear.

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Hmmmm, I disagree! I work from home and quite often I don't bother getting out of my PJs before midday (my most productive work period). Sometimes I don't even bother getting out of bed (yay for laptops!). But I'm pretty sure that if I showed up for a meeting with a new client dressed in my jim-jams, they would perceive me as lazy and low-quality, despite the fact that it is my everyday productive workwear.

that's right, it is only done because of fear. fear of prejudice/stigma/rejection/loss of income/punishment. which is a supressive, unessesary thing to have in a society.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

So people need to wear a busines suit to be taken seriously?

What about leaders and politicians from differently dressed cultures or countries?

Have you ever read The Little Prince? There's a bit in there about how a Turkish diplomat was ridiculed by the other European countries until he changed from his traditional garb to more Western garb. That's actually true. After WWI, Atatürk completely reformed the country (well, from Ottoman Empire --> Republic of Turkey), including cultural reforms, to Westernize and secularize it.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

that's right, it is only done because of fear. fear of prejudice/stigma/rejection/loss of income/punishment. which is a supressive, unessesary thing to have in a society.

You remind me so much of me Roxy. I had the same thought processes about this subject around 19-20. It just seemed incredibly stupid to me. That's the way it is though.

[Leondegrance]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

So people need to wear a busines suit to be taken seriously?

Common sense has never played a significant role in the consumer-based economy.

How do you put food on the table? - money.
How do you put a roof over your head? - money.
How do you measure success? - money.
How do you look respectable? - wear a suit. How do you get one? - money.


_____________
Learn by doing.

[Brutha]

We live in a way where people with suits are treated differently than people who wear no suits.
You can either accept reality and dress the way you want to be perceived or you can ignore social customs.

Unless conformity and looking all the same is what people want.

Of course people want conformity.
You want to make business deals with mature people who will conform with your agreement. You try to keep personality out of business interactions.

It does not seem kind that our appearance is controlled by fear and punishments when it's just appearance?

If it's just appearence and appearance doesn't matter what's the problem with putting on a suit?

Richard Branson never seems to.

Richard Branson breaks the rule to make a point.

That's the thing with rules. You don't break them randomly. You break them to say something.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Richard Branson breaks the rule to make a point.

That's the thing with rules. You don't break them randomly. You break them to say something.

Sometimes the point of breaking a rule is to demonstrate (to yourself or to others) that you don't agree to be bound by that rule. That can be plenty!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Richard Branson breaks the rule to make a point.

That's the thing with rules. You don't break them randomly. You break them to say something.

Richard Branson is in a position where he can break the rules and no one will tell him off for it.

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by Brutha

We live in a way where people with suits are treated differently than people who wear no suits.
You can either accept reality and dress the way you want to be perceived or you can ignore social customs.
Of course people want conformity.
You want to make business deals with mature people who will conform with your agreement. You try to keep personality out of business interactions.
If it's just appearence and appearance doesn't matter what's the problem with putting on a suit?
Richard Branson breaks the rule to make a point.

That's the thing with rules. You don't break them randomly. You break them to say something.

I think you might have missed the point , the point was that appearence shouldn't matter so yes, you can wear a suit if you want to but the point i was trying to make was that most people in society wouldn't take you seriously if you didn't have a suit and that's the problem.

Appearance is something separate from business deals. You can be naked or in your pyjamas and still make the same business deal.

I never said there was a problem with putting on a suit, there is a problem with the supression of not being able to have any appearance to follow your potential...the belief in the need of a suit in positions of leadership or various jobs or else fear, job loss, loss of potential, rejection, disrespect, not being taken seriously etc is the problem.