What's wrong with this World ?

[elucidate]

I'm sorry, but you will have to find someone else to argue with this time RR.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I'm sorry, but I gotta add something. How is it not your preference? It's our human arrogance that makes us assume that WE know what's best for everything. We don't know what was really in the past, why it happened, what's actually happening now, and what will happen in the future. We know NOTHING, yet we assume we know enough to predict what we need to do now in order to preserve the world in our image ( YOUR preference). Yet, each persons preference of the world is different. Some want no humans alive on this planet. Some don't want this planet alive and would love to see an asteroid come and destroy us. Never used the word "supposed to" because you really don't know that. Maybe monkeys are supposed to kill us out and take care of this place. You just don't know. Just because some people are waking up, doesn't mean that they are waking up to the correct version of reality, even if it seems to you that they are.

Who appointed us the caretakers exactly?

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I'm sorry, but you will have to find someone else to argue with this time RR.

No answer then?

I have very valid points, and you cannot just discount them. If you don't like the word " you" then ignore it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by elucidate

No, because we have been taking from this place and treating it like our own personal dumping ground without any respect or consideration for the other inhabitants that live here, and we are only now, when the weather and everything running out happening, are starting to wake up to it, which in my opinion, is intensely stupid. I can forgive a baby throwing up on itself, but this is a little harder to forgive.

I don't deal in blame, that doesn't help.

If you don't deal in blame, then why is it so hard to forgive? How is this not a declaration that it's people's fault?

The thing is, I don't think it matters who you blame (who you have a hard time forgiving), yourself or others -- either way, the practice of blaming (being unforgiving) has the effect of manufacturing "there's something wrong here." In other words, struggle.

The good news about forgiveness is that it doesn't matter who you're forgiving or whether or not they deserve it -- either way, it gives the forgiver access to ease, effortlessness, influence, and effectiveness at making a difference in the areas of life that are important to her. I highly recommend forgiveness!

[NICE]

Hi Guy's

They say the state of the world Is a reflection of how the majorities feel on the so called "Inside"

[Angela]

Originally Posted by NICE

Hi Guy's

They say the state of the world Is a reflection of how the majorities feel on the so called "Inside"

I would say that the state of the world is a reflection of how I feel on the inside. And the world is a lovely place to be; I'm grateful to be here.

[Mynder]

Loving people live in a loving world.
Hostile people live in a hostile world.
Same world.

-- Wayne Dyer


Coming from here, what is so unforgivable about you that this sits so uncomfortably in your focus in the world around you?

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by Mynder

Loving people live in a loving world.
Hostile people live in a hostile world.
Same world.

-- Wayne Dyer


Coming from here, what is so unforgivable about you that this sits so uncomfortably in your focus in the world around you?

You can really riff on that quote:

Pessimistic people live in a failing world
Optimistic people live in a succeeding world

Depressed people live in a depressed world
Happy people live in a happy world

Complainers live in an unchangeable world
Doers like in a progressing world

Hope Dyer wouldn't mind.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

No answer then?

I have very valid points, and you cannot just discount them. If you don't like the word " you" then ignore it.

Yes, your points are valid rr, my sleep was just more important to me than arguing them with you. I can allow you your viewpoint without engaging in debate with you though, and this is what I choose to do.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Angela

If you don't deal in blame, then why is it so hard to forgive? How is this not a declaration that it's people's fault?

Yes, I see your point. I prefer to think that we, as a species, are responsable for the way things are though...and I don't think that is too far from the truth.

The thing is, I don't think it matters who you blame (who you have a hard time forgiving), yourself or others -- either way, the practice of blaming (being unforgiving) has the effect of manufacturing "there's something wrong here." In other words, struggle.

Yes, I'm aware that unforgiveness is not the best state to be in.

The good news about forgiveness is that it doesn't matter who you're forgiving or whether or not they deserve it -- either way, it gives the forgiver access to ease, effortlessness, influence, and effectiveness at making a difference in the areas of life that are important to her. I highly recommend forgiveness!

Yes, forgiveness is good that way.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, your points are valid rr, my sleep was just more important to me than arguing them with you. I can allow you your viewpoint without engaging in debate with you though, and this is what I choose to do.

but you are awake now.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

but you are awake now.

Yes, and I'm not in the mood for debate.

I'm in the mood for labne.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I'm sorry, but I gotta add something. How is it not your preference? It's our human arrogance that makes us assume that WE know what's best for everything. We don't know what was really in the past, why it happened, what's actually happening now, and what will happen in the future. We know NOTHING, yet we assume we know enough to predict what we need to do now in order to preserve the world in our image ( YOUR preference).

I will address your comments now.

I never said that I knew what was best for the planet, but I'm fairly sure destroying all the creatures and wiping out the forests and polluting the waters and air are things that could be not only avoided but also replaced with more respectful handling. If that is a preference then yes, that is my preference...and I think it is a far saner one than what we have so far displayed.

Yet, each persons preference of the world is different. Some want no humans alive on this planet. Some don't want this planet alive and would love to see an asteroid come and destroy us. Never used the word "supposed to" because you really don't know that.

Well, it seems obvious to me that since we are supposedly the most evolved creatures on this planet that it would be the intelligent choice to take care of all the lesser evolved beings here, and for survival sake, the environment as well...call me crazy!

Maybe monkeys are supposed to kill us out and take care of this place. You just don't know.

Honestly, I think they'd do a better job!

Just because some people are waking up, doesn't mean that they are waking up to the correct version of reality, even if it seems to you that they are.

That may be true. You don't know that they aren't either!

Who appointed us the caretakers exactly?

I would say, if we were wise we would appoint ourselves caretakers, as the american indians and the aborigines took on as a role thousands of years before us.

[oceantide24]

The truth??

we need to change, infact I need to change and no body should think that he doesn't need to in one way or the other

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by oceantide24

The truth??

we need to change, infact I need to change and no body should think that he doesn't need to in one way or the other

I'm perfect, what of it?

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Honestly, I think they'd do a better job!

I'd say that would depend on which monkeys!

I've really enjoyed your posts in this thread luci.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

I'd say that would depend on which monkeys!

I've really enjoyed your posts in this thread luci.

Why thankyou Secrets. I dare say you may be one of the few though. Its nice to be appreciated.

[LostMyMap]

Too many rules requiring clothing. That's what's wrong with this world.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Why thankyou Secrets. I dare say you may be one of the few though. Its nice to be appreciated though.

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Too many rules requiring clothing. That's what's wrong with this world.

Well that's one thing

[Mynder]

LMM, I was tempted to agree, then thought of running around naked in winter, then came to the conclusion that Earth wasn't sunny enough, then reconsidered and really just deducted that for running around naked, I should move to someplace continuously warmer.

Though if I don't move, there is at least global warming to look forward to.

[Hailey1313]

Originally Posted by Leondegrance

Money is the sad alternative to self sufficiency when in regards to our current self-destructive practice of a consumer-based economy. One would therefore agree that most of the human world is in a very sad state.
_____________
Learn by doing.

Absolutely! Consumerism is a sick and wasteful system; unsustainable.

[Hailey1313]

Originally Posted by Mynder

Failed experiment? Why, because humanity is not the way you (or me) would prefer? In the spirit of "be the change you want to see in the world", you can support a change towards a society that values the things you do, by acting on them.

Spread some love around. Show people that you care. Be the shining example in action that you want to see reflected by those all around you. There is no "them" to blame. And blame itself seems to be pointless, too (even though I myself still practice this pointless habit...working on it!).

Wow, Gandhi: "Be the change you wish to see in the world." Did it for a few years and realized that I inspired no one and changed nothing. Tides are strong, people refuse to think, and they are too narrow-minded to listen, or learn.

"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell

"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

If you know of a change happening that's worthwhile, I'd love to hear it, because I'd love to have a reason to hope.

[Mynder]

Okay, I give you one change. All the stuff out in the world has allowed me to see what I don't want, and what I prefer to choose.

Maybe this is necessary (well, not necessary, but it is certainly helpful in this regard) for others like me to wake up to their hearts, their values, and give birth to ideas leading to something better.

Cynicism...I am familiar with. But I didn't let it harden me to the point where I didn't care anymore. I use it with a bit of gallows humor these days, mostly when I worry too much.

[Hailey1313]

Originally Posted by Mynder

Cynicism...I am familiar with. But I didn't let it harden me to the point where I didn't care anymore. I use it with a bit of gallows humor these days, mostly when I worry too much.

I haven't lost all hope; it's dwindling, though. I still continue to look for people and opportunities to help to induce change. I'm just in "work smarter, not harder" mode. I used to waste a great deal of energy on people who didn't want to change; they merely wanted to talk. I stop myself from getting too involved with those people now, but not before I point out to them that, "saying you want to change is NOT changing." Now, I feel that I'd like to DO something to create change, but I'm lost as to what that is exactly. Where do I direct my efforts? Be the change? Even in my own home I'm not sure where to start.

Then, sometimes, I think that it's really arrogant of me to think that things need to change. Maybe, things not perfect, but nothing ever will be. Is it realistic, or even responsible, for me to expect change in the world?

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Hailey1313

I haven't lost all hope; it's dwindling, though. I still continue to look for people and opportunities to help to induce change. I'm just in "work smarter, not harder" mode. I used to waste a great deal of energy on people who didn't want to change; they merely wanted to talk. I stop myself from getting too involved with those people now, but not before I point out to them that, "saying you want to change is NOT changing." Now, I feel that I'd like to DO something to create change, but I'm lost as to what that is exactly. Where do I direct my efforts? Be the change? Even in my own home I'm not sure where to start.

Then, sometimes, I think that it's really arrogant of me to think that things need to change. Maybe, things not perfect, but nothing ever will be. Is it realistic, or even responsible, for me to expect change in the world?

From how you feel, you of all people should stick with " be the change you want to see". Things aren't perfect, but not a single person I've met knows that the change they expect in the world is the change the world needs. We can't see the future. Just concentrate on yourself. We don't know what's best for us, let alone everyone else. A change someone wants, can save people, yet kill others. Who draws the line, where, and with what sacrifices?

[Mynder]

Are you doing this with the expectation to change the world, or just to live your life according to your own values, the way it makes you happy, and to serve as an example for others that way?

If you bend and twist yourself in order to fit into some savior role that you don't really feel "into", then I can understand the resentment you're accumulating in yourself.

[elucidate]

I just think saving our own world is the best way to go.

Now, when dad tries to make fun of me for "saving the world" while rolling his eyeballs, I just say "no, I'm too busy saving my world". He doesn't get it, but then, he doesn't get a lot of things about me.

[Hailey1313]

Originally Posted by Mynder

If you bend and twist yourself in order to fit into some savior role that you don't really feel "into", then I can understand the resentment you're accumulating in yourself.

I don't think I was going against any of my core beliefs to help others. I just got sick of people leaching off of me; I'm not superman, and I can't be other people's confidence filler. When you spend hours, days, months with people suggesting practical solutions to their problems and they just want to whine in your ear, you realize that you're not helping that person--you're enabling them.

So, as a result of many failed attempts to help other people, I decided to give brief advice and move on.

Overall, I'm looking for a way to make a bigger impact, if that's even what's called for. To be a savior? Blech! No. I'm not a center of attention, public eye kind of person. I would rather join with others who have a common goal, otherwise, "being the change" is pointless and a waste of energy.

I just thought you guys might have some suggestions is all.

[Hailey1313]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Just concentrate on yourself. We don't know what's best for us, let alone everyone else. A change someone wants, can save people, yet kill others. Who draws the line, where, and with what sacrifices?

Been doing that for the past several years...

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by Hailey1313

Overall, I'm looking for a way to make a bigger impact, if that's even what's called for. To be a savior? Blech! No. I'm not a center of attention, public eye kind of person. I would rather join with others who have a common goal, otherwise, "being the change" is pointless and a waste of energy.

I just thought you guys might have some suggestions is all.

What common goal? Who you join with depends what the goal is.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Hailey1313

Overall, I'm looking for a way to make a bigger impact, if that's even what's called for. To be a savior? Blech! No. I'm not a center of attention, public eye kind of person. I would rather join with others who have a common goal, otherwise, "being the change" is pointless and a waste of energy.

Have you ever heard of an organization called Friends of the Earth-F.O.E?

You might want to look them up on google. I have volunteered with them for the last 4 years, on and off in various roles, and have no problem promoting them to people who are interested in aligning themselves with people who work hard to advocate for social change and raising environmental awareness.