What's wrong with this World ?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by memorare

Hi everyone. First post here. I just had to comment on this. It was recently pointed out to me that the legal definition of mayhem is the removal of another person's members (hand, leg, eye, etc). Your post is pretty interesting in this context.

I hardly ever remove anyone's members. The mayhem I do so magnificently is the willful destruction, crippling, and mutilation of false dichotomies and barriers to accessing the joy, power, and abundance that is who we are!

[Brutha]

Your take on science is almost religious. Science is the salvation. Science will save us all. All worship and obey science. Your science religion is better than every other religion and has all the answers. You might even be able to get tax exempt status.

Yes, sciencism can be annoying.

Nazi Germany was able to produce immense quantities of material out of just a tiny little country because science was so deeply into their culture in WWII.

Not really. The Nazis didn't like intellectuals.
They opposed Einsteins theory of relativity because Einstein was Jewish.

[NDN Scholar]

Originally Posted by Angela

It's true. I am MAGNIFICENT at mayhem!

Hey. I'm pretty sweet, too.

The Nazis didn't like intellectuals.

Yeah they did. Provided these intellectual pursuits were... within their realm of acceptance. Jewish intellectual? Nope. V2 rockets? Right on.

[NDN Scholar]

Originally Posted by Silenced140

China, a nation of over a billion people is gaining power. Under normal circumstances, I would applaud them on their success. The only problem is that the leaders are extremely communist and keep their people in a police state that censors their free speech. You can't have something like this gain influence in the world.

Could be worse. At least they aren't religious fundamentalists. Communism is, in theory, something I admire. Too bad it usually fails in practice when stretched to the extreme.

That aside, China's been expanding so enormously lately in the economic sphere because they're been adopting capitalistic values. It isn't exactly a "communist" state in the traditional sense anymore. I don't think it ever really was, but the fact that's it drifting further and further away from Mao's utopia is certainly a good sign if you're concerned with individual liberty. Maybe they'll come to transform into your ideal society, given time.

Moreover, if you're concerned about a war with China, that possibility is... doubtful. Rest easy, bro.

Religion is tearing apart the entire world.. Everyone believes they are right no matter what, because it's "The word of God" no matter who you ask, they're always right. These people are killing each other and basing major social decisions off of religious dogma that is often completely irrational.

Extremist religion has been fracturing human relations since the dawn of history, my friend. We're actually doing pretty good at the moment if you bother to take a look back in time and see how much worse it used to be.

The world isn't a perfect place, but... it's getting better, lol.

Peace.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by NDN Scholar

Hey. I'm pretty sweet, too.

You bet your ass, you are!

[Brutha]

Yeah they did. Provided these intellectual pursuits were... within their realm of acceptance. Jewish intellectual? Nope. V2 rockets? Right on.

Tolerating someone because they can build you nice weapons doesn't mean that you have to like them.

They valued physical fitness and discipline a lot more than intelligence. They didn't like modernity. The abhorred the idea of nerds who sit in a library and do proper science.

[t4488]

Originally Posted by Brutha

nerds who sit in a library and do proper science.

[Leondegrance]

Money is the sad alternative to self sufficiency when in regards to our current self-destructive practice of a consumer-based economy. One would therefore agree that most of the human world is in a very sad state.


_____________
Learn by doing.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Leondegrance

Money is the sad alternative to self sufficiency.

I see you have some ideological similarity with the man in your avatar.

[NDN Scholar]

Originally Posted by Angela

You bet your ass, you are!

That sounds sexually agressive, but hey, I can roll with that.

Originally Posted by Brutha

Tolerating someone because they can build you nice weapons doesn't mean that you have to like them.

They valued physical fitness and discipline a lot more than intelligence. They didn't like modernity. The abhorred the idea of nerds who sit in a library and do proper science.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge on the subject.

[supertom]

Originally Posted by NDN Scholar

I'll bow to your superior knowledge on the subject.

Brutha seems to have superior knowledge on anything, could never win a argument with him

[Mynder]

One thing, mostly: your perception of it.

(But that's been said in more elaborate terms already)


Earth would be better off without humans? I think our planet will keep doing just fine even after we're gone, no matter how long that'd take us. Unless we blow it up at the core.

Failed experiment? Why, because humanity is not the way you (or me) would prefer? In the spirit of "be the change you want to see in the world", you can support a change towards a society that values the things you do, by acting on them.

Spread some love around. Show people that you care. Be the shining example in action that you want to see reflected by those all around you. There is no "them" to blame. And blame itself seems to be pointless, too (even though I myself still practice this pointless habit...working on it!).

Everything not human is great? How about a big rock from space killing millions of animals all at once? Forest fires destroying square miles upon square miles of natural habitats for a myriad of creatures? I bet they'd agree with you that if only humans were gone, these other things would just be peachy.

We're children. We have been for thousands of years, and we'll not grow up over night. As long as we don't get ourselves all killed in the process...is it too much to ask to allow us to learn? Do you scold your little baby child for not being able to keep its clothes clean after drinking from her mother's breast or the milk bottle? Why not?

Yes, in many cases we should know better already. But it takes time, and sometimes some major event to drive a lesson home. I haven't given up hope on our kind just yet.

Hm, Katie Byron just sprang to mind, and her "turn it around" thing.

That would read something like this:

The world minus me is a great place.
I am a failed experiment.
Money is the sad alternative to self sufficiency. And as you can see, I am in a very sad state.
I am planet Earth's gremlins. (how preposterous!)
I am magnificent at mayhem. (can't twist this one...)
I sit around and do nothing.
I am completely irrational and it's getting to a point where it's starting to affect my life. This doesn't make me very happy.

Please don't flog me for this. I think it's a fun thing to play around with it. :-)

[elucidate]

Failed experiment? Why, because humanity is not the way you (or me) would prefer? In the spirit of "be the change you want to see in the world", you can support a change towards a society that values the things you do, by acting on them.

No, because we have been taking from this place and treating it like our own personal dumping ground without any respect or consideration for the other inhabitants that live here, and we are only now, when the weather and everything running out happening, are starting to wake up to it, which in my opinion, is intensely stupid. I can forgive a baby throwing up on itself, but this is a little harder to forgive.

It's nothing to do with my preference, we were supposed to be the caretakers of this place, and only now, some of us are starting to be.

What makes you assume that I'm not part of the change? I don't just ♥♥♥♥♥ about it. I've been part of the solution for years now, and I don't mean just recycling.

I love the world and I love animals and I love humanity believe it or not...I just don't like people very much, though I have at times been inspired to give them all a chance! I prefer non-human animals, they're a lot more graceful in my opinion. I know it's not the popular opinion, but then, it's not a popularity contest, is it?

Spread some love around. Show people that you care. Be the shining example in action that you want to see reflected by those all around you. There is no "them" to blame. And blame itself seems to be pointless, too (even though I myself still practice this pointless habit...working on it!).

Already do.

I don't deal in blame, that doesn't help. I'm concerned with consequences, and those consequences seem to be making themselves known quite a lot lately. The Earth has been re-balancing herself out in her own way, and she isn't finished yet. Natural disasters have always occured,but it's no coincidence that they are happening with greater frequency, and intensity than ever before.

And you're right, the Earth will continue on long after we are gone.

We're children. We have been for thousands of years, and we'll not grow up over night. As long as we don't get ourselves all killed in the process...is it too much to ask to allow us to learn? Do you scold your little baby child for not being able to keep its clothes clean after drinking from her mother's breast or the milk bottle? Why not?

Then, as a child, forgive me for not being as forgiving as you are. I happen to think millions of years of evolution being trashed by humans who have been here for a blink of the eye to be a little beyond redemption...but then, I'm way too hard on myself

Yes, in many cases we should know better already. But it takes time, and sometimes some major event to drive a lesson home. I haven't given up hope on our kind just yet.

I'm just not sure we have the time it takes to learn, that's all!

It's nice that you have hope though. I feel that hope at times, and other times, it isn't there.

[Andrew Gubb]

First opinion: don't watch the news. It makes you focus on the negative.

There are two aspects to truth: data and proportion. If you focus on one thing it seems to have a larger importance than other things. If you don't focus on it, the data doesn't change (data) but the importance of it does (proportion).

By focusing on the negative you feel unhappy and powerless. To me that is a less effective approach to finding the truth than focusing on those areas that allow you to feel happy and powerful while recognising and accepting the data from other areas where necessary.

Second opinion: I don't believe the way forward is science. The way forward is consciousness as described in "The Power of Now".

We have too much science for our level of consciousness. We are too powerful. Power is fine but if you are not conscious (sane) enough to use it it works against you. Humanity is really capable of destroying itself with all its accumulated power these days.

[Mynder]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I'm just not sure we have the time it takes to learn, that's all!

Who's problem is that? Humanity's or the Earth's?

As I see it, there are basically two outcomes: we manage to become extinct, or we manage to keep flourishing and growing beyond Earth.

If the first happens, there really isn't a point in condemning humanity for dying out. In the second, we'll have the time to learn.

Either way, the planet has a lot more patience and ability to "recover" (into what state? Earth keeps changing as well? Try going back in time a couple billion years and see how hospitable it is to human life).

Sometimes, a bit of cynicism, positively applied, can save you a lot of grief. ;-)

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Mynder

Who's problem is that? Humanity's or the Earth's?

Well, it's very much humanities problem if it wants to survive.

As I see it, there are basically two outcomes: we manage to become extinct, or we manage to keep flourishing and growing beyond Earth.

If the first happens, there really isn't a point in condemning humanity for dying out. In the second, we'll have the time to learn.

Either way, the planet has a lot more patience and ability to "recover" (into what state? Earth keeps changing as well? Try going back in time a couple billion years and see how hospitable it is to human life).

Sometimes, a bit of cynicism, positively applied, can save you a lot of grief. ;-)

Who said I was condemning humanity for dying out? I'm the one saying the planet will be better off without us and that we, as a species, don't deserve this place remember. So, from my perspective, it's a good thing for the planet, not a bad thing...it's nothing to condemn.

Of course it would be better and nicer if we all just evolved, and many are, and awakenings are happening all over. I'm excited about that at times when I stop and think of the possibilities...and then the fact that there is a hurricane lurking over Brisbane the size of America, and where I live the streets are flooded a few kilometres from where I am typing this, take over, and I have to wonder...

Forgive me, I am but a child learning to forgive. Hopefully you are right about us having more time to learn.

But I firmly believe the planet will go on with or without us, and that is where my allegiance lies.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Mynder

Hm, Katie Byron just sprang to mind, and her "turn it around" thing.

That would read something like this:

The world minus me is a great place.
I am a failed experiment.
Money is the sad alternative to self sufficiency. And as you can see, I am in a very sad state.
I am planet Earth's gremlins. (how preposterous!)
I am magnificent at mayhem. (can't twist this one...)
I sit around and do nothing.
I am completely irrational and it's getting to a point where it's starting to affect my life. This doesn't make me very happy.

Please don't flog me for this. I think it's a fun thing to play around with it. :-)

To address this part of your earlier post, I will say this:

If I were to die tomorrow the world would be worse for it, but it would still go on, as it has been before I was ever thought of.

I have turned this around on myself, and the thought that I am a failed experiment disturbed me when I thought it.(working on that one)

I didn't say the others, so I'm not gonna go there

[Mynder]

But I firmly believe the planet will go on with or without us, and that is where my allegiance lies.

Just wanted to comment on this, because it is exactly what I'm saying. In the end, humanity's actions or inactions are a drop in the sea, causing rarely a stir at all. It all just seems so immeasurably important to us...and it is...for us...because it affects...US.

So, either the world will be well off without us (then we solve the problem that is humanity ourselves), or with us (in that case we obviously had all the time we needed to learn).

Either way, it is in how you choose to see things. If you turn your back on humanity, on more than one level you turn your back on yourself. Is that really who you choose to be?

http://www.mtv.de/videos/22813493-pi...n-perfect.html

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Mynder

Just wanted to comment on this, because it is exactly what I'm saying. In the end, humanity's actions or inactions are a drop in the sea, causing rarely a stir at all. It all just seems so immeasurably important to us...and it is...for us...because it affects...US.

So, either the world will be well off without us (then we solve the problem that is humanity ourselves), or with us (in that case we obviously had all the time we needed to learn).

Yes, I agree with you here. It could go either way really.

Either way, it is in how you choose to see things. If you turn your back on humanity, on more than one level you turn your back on yourself. Is that really who you choose to be?

:: MTV | Pink - F**ckin' Perfect

The fact that I found this forum, proves that I haven't turned my back on humanity. I am doing my best to learn to think in better, more productive ways, but those thoughts have seemed, and felt, so right to me in the past. It seemed like the only conclusion to me that was real.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I haven't given up on humanity all together, I just have little patience for mindless destruction and stupidity.

Btw, your vid was unavailable?

[Mynder]

They are real, both your thoughts and your conclusions. And it is not wrong to have them, and it is not wrong to accept them as a part of who you are.

One of my favorite sayings for a time used to be "I hate when I'm proven right".

You may feel that way right now.

In a way, humanity seems to possess a "death touch" kind of ability, destroying and killing off not only each other but our environment itself. It is very easy to focus on this, because it is what we get bombarded with on a daily basis, from looking around us (cars, pollution, cities, etc.), from the news, it is all around us.

How much time every day is our information network using on teaching us how wonderfully compassionate, loving and caring creatures we really are? What would happen if that changed, and if this became the norm, rather than what we consume today?

In that regard, Angela was an eye-opener to me. In the beginning, I felt she was a bit of a fraud, maybe even deceiving herself. Nobody can be perpetually happy all the time, yadda yadda. Only gradually, with time, I began to understand that she simply seemed to have made a choice to choose or even search out a positive interpretation for everything that comes her way.

Maybe that's a good exercise, to try and find positive interpretations for what we notice and experience, even if they seem absurd.

About the video: that was just Pink's "F**ing Perfect" music clip. It's what most of us felt much too little of as a child, and never learned to see ourselves in that way. Just something I wanted to let you know and feel. Because you are.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Mynder

They are real, both your thoughts and your conclusions. And it is not wrong to have them, and it is not wrong to accept them as a part of who you are.

One of my favorite sayings for a time used to be "I hate when I'm proven right".

You may feel that way right now.

In a way, humanity seems to possess a "death touch" kind of ability, destroying and killing off not only each other but our environment itself. It is very easy to focus on this, because it is what we get bombarded with on a daily basis, from looking around us (cars, pollution, cities, etc.), from the news, it is all around us.

I stopped watching the news over 10 years ago for this reason. I literally don't know what's going on, and haven't in ages, except for when people around me talk about stuff they've read, and then it's unavoidable unless I leave the room.

How much time every day is our information network using on teaching us how wonderfully compassionate, loving and caring creatures we really are? What would happen if that changed, and if this became the norm, rather than what we consume today?

It would be much better. People don't even know how much negativity they are carrying around with them each day. They think they are being smart reading the newspaper and watching the news, so they can discuss world events and appear smart and in the know.

Thankfully, apart from one or two random ********, I manage to create a reality where I am surrounded by people who are part of the solution, and who are compassionate, loving creatures...and I'm grateful for them.

In that regard, Angela was an eye-opener to me. In the beginning, I felt she was a bit of a fraud, maybe even deceiving herself. Nobody can be perpetually happy all the time, yadda yadda. Only gradually, with time, I began to understand that she simply seemed to have made a choice to choose or even search out a positive interpretation for everything that comes her way.

Maybe that's a good exercise, to try and find positive interpretations for what we notice and experience, even if they seem absurd.

Yes, I came to that conclusion ages ago as well, and whether you believe it or not, I'm actually a pretty positive person. Talking about all this tonight has left me in a sombre mood, which I haven't been in in ages. I'm not even sure if the thoughts that I have expressed tonight are still the way I think, or if I am just regurgitating old stuff? It was depressing to look at after I'd posted them.

About the video: that was just Pink's "F**ing Perfect" music clip. It's what most of us felt much too little of as a child, and never learned to see ourselves in that way. Just something I wanted to let you know and feel. Because you are.

I have had times in my life when I truly understood that I am perfect just as I am, and I carried that knowledge with utter certainty. The last ten years or so have eroded that sense of self-acceptance, no matter how hard I tried not to let other people projecting their insecurities and belittlements and put downs, which were really directed at themselves, get to me. One can only take so much...but I have the memory of feeling that way, so I cling to that.

It's something that requires constant vigilance, as it seems the rest of the world won't let you think good thoughts about yourself, because they don't. It takes a strong mind to be aware of that and not take it on every time it is thrown at you...which is all the time if you have any self-esteem at all.

And I thank you Eddie. You always make me feel better, and give me alternative thoughts to consider.

I love you.

[Mynder]

Ah, you're very welcome. I believe this is the time where I steal a big, warm hug from you.

It's something that requires constant vigilance, as it seems the rest of the world won't let you think good thoughts about yourself, because they don't.

I think this is exactly the thing that Angela would love to take apart!

Last edit:

And I thank you Eddie. You always make me feel better, and give me alternative thoughts to consider.

I love you.

From a person as bluntly honest as you, I take this as high praise. Thank you.

I love you too.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Mynder

Ah, you're very welcome. I believe this is the time where I steal a big, warm hug from you.



I think this is exactly the thing that Angela would love to take apart!

I just know that whenever I start to step up to the plate, people turn up, men usually, who are just masters at belittling me, to make themselves feel better, so I know it's about them mostly. My father was like this all the time, so I realize it's an unconscious pattern in me, and that I belittle myself as well, which is like putting myself on a pedestal only to knock myself off it.

It's something I'd very much like to change, but have had real trouble with. Being hard on myself is something I am really good at.

The woman I am living with is an EFT practitioner and reiki person, and she has agreed to help me with all this, so, so far it's helped. And Cado gave me a really good exercise to do the other day to bring all the unconscious negativity to the forefront, and that REALLY helped me, so I'm working with that as well.

[Mynder]

And Cado gave me a really good exercise to do the other day to bring all the unconscious negativity to the forefront, and that REALLY helped me

What is that exercise?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Mynder

What is that exercise?

A series of statements that you write down, one at a time...for example:

I worry that...(and then your unconscious follows through)

I'm afraid of...(again the same)

I feel guilty..." "

I have no control over...(" ")

I can't get over...

I doubt...

There's never enough time to...

I find it hard to...

I don't want...

What really hurts is...

I feel...

I regret...

And then, after you have allowed the answers to come up from your subconscious, you then divide them up and find relative themes and then look for the fears that lurk behind each one.

It really worked for me. You have to be in a relaxed state, like after meditating.

[Mynder]

I love learning about methods that work. Thanks for sharing.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Mynder

I love learning about methods that work. Thanks for sharing.

Glad to share with you Eddie.

It's interesting, as some of the answers that came up made no sense when I looked at them, and yet that is what was in my head?

[Mynder]

Who said that emotions had anything to do with logic, or reason?

In some way these thoughts and beliefs helped you at some point in your life. They allowed you to push away responsibility, or not have to face fears, or not experience pain in full "right now", but bury it for a time to emerge later, when hopefully you would be better equipped to deal with it.

This exercise seems wonderful at exposing what kind of negative stuff we think about. There is another exercise where you formulate opposing, positive statements and affirmations to these negative beliefs and thoughts, and whenever they come up, you consciously think these positive "counter-thoughts".

I suppose it takes quite a bit of discipline to maintain this, but as Steve wrote, forming new habits takes around three weeks (hence his 30 day trials...that should be enough to form the habit, and have a few extra days to savor it).

I'd say this works well for stuff that you have uncovered, and know are just junk from the past with no real substance to them anymore.

As for the rest, I guess you work through them, look at what lies underneath, until you find the non-truth that you were/are still believing in, and form a positive thought/affirmation around that, unless even realizing what is underneath has already set you free from that particular belief/thought.

[elucidate]

Well, I do think that for affirmations to work you need to let all the mud come to the surface first...but that is for another thread.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by elucidate

It's nothing to do with my preference, we were supposed to be the caretakers of this place, and only now, some of us are starting to be.

I'm sorry, but I gotta add something. How is it not your preference? It's our human arrogance that makes us assume that WE know what's best for everything. We don't know what was really in the past, why it happened, what's actually happening now, and what will happen in the future. We know NOTHING, yet we assume we know enough to predict what we need to do now in order to preserve the world in our image ( YOUR preference). Yet, each persons preference of the world is different. Some want no humans alive on this planet. Some don't want this planet alive and would love to see an asteroid come and destroy us. Never used the word "supposed to" because you really don't know that. Maybe monkeys are supposed to kill us out and take care of this place. You just don't know. Just because some people are waking up, doesn't mean that they are waking up to the correct version of reality, even if it seems to you that they are.

Who appointed us the caretakers exactly?