Egypt unrest/revolution

[Plays With Life]

Wow, lol. That was a quick turnaround.

[Criseyde]

Hooray!!

[itsEDGAR]

Only thing i'm slightly hesitant of is that i feel certain people (elitists), US needs to stop trying to "help", the only way the people of Egypt will be truly free. They only want to make sure the next people in office will be able to keep in their pockets

[Brutha]

Pro-democracy campaigners have used sites such as Twitter and Facebook to organize rallies and share cell phone video footage of their often-violent clashes with police.
I think this disproves the idea that Egyptians want to discuss and coordinate their revolution without access to the global internet.

The want to speak to other Egyptians via Twitter.
That's what I said above.

This article:
Egypt Internet Ban: 5 Ways the Protesters Are Beating the Blackout
Lists 4 ways Egyptians used to access the global internet during the period when it was cut off:

Nobody used the way that you were proposing because it's crap and doesn't help.

Again, I wouldn't be trying to replace the country's (or a town's) internet service with a community network. It would provide limited access for people who wanted to get messages in and out which they consider important. Nobody would be sitting around watching YouTube videos on the limited connection.

How do you prevent people from sitting around and watching YouTube when you have an open Wireless network that allows everyone to connect?

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Brutha

The want to speak to other Egyptians via Twitter.
That's what I said above.

I didn't see you say this. Where did you say it?

Were you not thinking that providing access to the internet would not be useful?

Originally Posted by Brutha

Nobody used the way that you were proposing because it's crap and doesn't help.

Nobody used the way I proposed because it doesn't exist and it can't be set up over night.

Originally Posted by Brutha

How do you prevent people from sitting around and watching YouTube when you have an open Wireless network that allows everyone to connect?

Maybe you haven't read the descriptions I've written of the setup I envision.

There would be relay people who have access to the internet. People who want to get messages in and out would talk to those people in person or on the telephone. There would not be a wifi network that allows everyone to connect. It would not be a replacement for an area's internet service.

[Brutha]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

I didn't see you say this. Where did you say it?

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

The idea that people want to communicate with the world outside of Egypt is strange? Really? If that were true, nobody would have minded that the internet was cut off. It would not have been a significant event.

Originally Posted by Brutha

Maybe, just maybe, the Egyptians want to discuss and coordinate their revolution with each other?

Were you not thinking that providing access to the internet would not be useful?

No, I don't think in terms of black and white.
I said that the cost/benefit ratio of the technology that you are proposing is bad.

There would be relay people who have access to the internet. People who want to get messages in and out would talk to those people in person or on the telephone.

That's what CoolBee did with her sister who updated her facebook page. It hasn't much to do community networks.

[Plays With Life]

These people are undertaking exactly the type of effort I envision:
OPENMESH Is Seeking Alternatives To Egypt-Style Internet Blackouts

“The idea is that if the government takes down the backbone for the internet in a country (like Egypt has done), takes down the mobile cellular networks and potentially the fixed line communications line there has to be other ways for people to communicate. Some of these ideas include coming up with ad hoc mesh networking solutions in a city or nation to support peer-to-peer communications.

You could have simple ideas like people communicating over bluetooth on their mobile phones (even if the mobile network is shutdown) as has happened in Iran and now Egypt. You could have WIMAX pumped in via ships in international waters powered by satellite internet connections pointed to nearby cities. You could have mobile routers in backpacks, cars and rooftops all interconnecting to create a further mesh solutions.”

[Plays With Life]

Brutha, I concede that you may have been thinking about Twitter when you wrote the post you quoted. But you didn't mention Twitter or internet access in the post.

Originally Posted by Brutha

No, I don't think in terms of black and white.
I said that the cost/benefit ratio of the technology that you are proposing is bad.

I just read through our conversation. I don't see anywhere that you mentioned the cost/benefit ratio.

Originally Posted by Brutha

That's what CoolBee did with her sister who updated her facebook page. It hasn't much to do community networks.

Exactly. People used this method during the blackout. Having a more widespread set of relay people available who are within the country would make it easier for people to access the internet the same way. And it would extend that access to Egyptians who didn't have a relay person available during the blackout. A community network with internet access would provide those relay people.

[Plays With Life]

Something similar has happened in Algeria.

Algeria shuts down internet and Facebook as protest mounts - Telegraph

[Criseyde]

There are also protests going on in Yemen: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/14/wo...t/14yemen.html

[Brutha]

I just read through our conversation. I don't see anywhere that you mentioned the cost/benefit ratio.

I argued that the costs are higher than you assume and that the benefits are lower.

Brutha, I concede that you may have been thinking about Twitter when you wrote the post you quoted. But you didn't mention Twitter or internet access in the post.

Whether the technology that they are communicating with is Twitter, Facebook or a working Diaspora doesn't really matter. Therefore I didn't say Twitter.

I didn't mention internet access because it already was in the context. I made an argument of why the Egyptians didn't like that there internet was censored.
Censoring the internet reduced their ability to organize.

A Disapora style application could in principle work without internet on intranet. There no reason to have to connect to twitter.com or facebook.com if you want that 100,000 people who sit at the same square can communicate with each other.

In developed countries a lot of people use the internet via their mobile phone so it's plausible that people who sit on a place and want to demonstrate have mobile phones that can run some software.

Focusing on access to global internet is a bad strategic goal if you want to create a resilient community that's able to communicate among themselves.

There are also protests going on in Yemen: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/14/wo...t/14yemen.html

The problem with Yemen is that they have an armed resistance movement. Their state runs out of oil in the next decade and won't be able to pay for food subsidies anymore.
It has the potential to turn into an ugly civil war.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Focusing on access to global internet is a bad strategic goal if you want to create a resilient community that's able to communicate among themselves.

Well - that seems like a different aim, to me. I agree that if you want to create a localized communications capability, you probably don't need internet access to achieve that.

[Brutha]

Well - that seems like a different aim, to me. I agree that if you want to create a localized communications

Organizing protests is something that you usually do in a local community.
As I wrote above, it doesn't matter so much whether Americans can read your messages.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Organizing protests is something that you usually do in a local community.
As I wrote above, it doesn't matter so much whether Americans can read your messages.

Agreed, on both counts. With the aim of providing a communications capability within the country to support the activities of an organized protest, focusing on internet access doesn't seem useful.

I was thinking primarily of the people who were not involved in the protests. Those people had their internet access removed as a collateral effect. If there were 100,000 - 2 million people in the square, that means there were millions of people who were not protesting who lost their internet connection. The protesters, I'm sure, can find a way to organize themselves and to provide their group with technology that supports that organization. That's going to be a part of the protesting activities.

What I consider more important is providing resilient internet access for the general population of internet users.

That 2008 data says Egypt had 13.5 million internet users. That's up from 11.8 million in 2007. I think now, 2-3 years later, the number is probably higher. I would like to find a way to provide resilient internet access to those millions of people.

I think the OpenMesh group is on the right track. That's an awesome initiative.

[munish]

I think Egypt protests were staged by people with vested interests .

Rothschild Revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt Kill Islamic Banks | Puppetworld Post

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by munish

I think Egypt protests were staged by people with vested interests .

Rothschild Revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt Kill Islamic Banks | Puppetworld Post

Umm... yeah... People without vested interest generally don't stage protests.

And they certainly don't put their lives on hold, risk imprisonment and the loss of everything they've ever worked for as well as their lives and their families' lives, nor do the take beatings if they don't have a "vested interest".

They also don't usually do those things for someone ELSE'S agenda.

Take your foil hat off... I think it's a little too tight.

[CoolBee]

I don't think they were staged at all Munish. Millions of people were involved.

There are conspiracy theories going around:

That Wael Ghonim (he Egyptian Google executive who was detained for a couple of weeks) is a freemason because he wears a polo shirt with a 'lion rampant' logo on it and the masonic coat of arms also does (as do thousands of coats of arms!) and he wears one of those rubber bracelet things.

áßá Çáí ÇÊåãææÇ æÇÇÆá Ûäíã æÞÇáæ Úáíå ßáÇÇã ÇáÑÏ Çåæ æÈÇáÕæææÑ ÈÑÖææ !!! - ãäÊÏíÇÊ ãæä áÇíÊ (sorry it's in arabic, but if you look at the pictures you'll see!)

However, there is also a joke one going around 'proving' he's in the pay of Obama because they're both wearing a tie LOL

http://i53.tinypic.com/a0bgrc.jpg

Tragically, Gadaffi's murdering ways make the Ancien Regime of Egypt look like a basket of new-born kittens.

[supertom]

Al Arabiya: Al Sennousi: The fleeing of State Security from Tripoli means that Gadafi has left Tripoli.


Revolution !!!

[CoolBee]

Just thought I'd add to this thread rather than create a new.

Major clashes today between protestors and military and police - so far 23 dead (some police/military, most protestors) 150 or more injured.
A curfew was reimposed tonight from 2am to 7am in the central area.

A friend has seen photos of the dead and says they are strongly reminiscent of those of Khaled Said who's fatal injuries were one of the sparks. I asked him not to show them to me.

The 'comfort' is I guess than probably less than a thousand people out of a national population of 85million were involved, and judging from the facebook reactions, most Egyptians - muslim and christian - are sickened by the whole thing.