OKCupid - Race Matters

[supertom]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Check out LOTR. All the good characters (except the dwarf, who is not meant to be pretty because he's a dwarf) have light eyes. All the bad characters have dark eyes.

Not to mention the only dark people are working for sauron and ride giant elephants

alas it is my favorite movie, only movie I watched many times.

[Lionman]

Let's not all forget that according to the OKCupid stats, there's a preference for middle-eastern women. And they're usually darker skinned with dark eyes.

[NDN Scholar]

Originally Posted by Lionman

And they're usually darker skinned with dark eyes.

Yeah, but that's hot.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Lionman

Let's not all forget that according to the OKCupid stats, there's a preference for middle-eastern women. And they're usually darker skinned with dark eyes.

And rarely portrayed as masculine...

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

And rarely portrayed as masculine...

I think you're a bit hung up on the portrayal thing.

Middle-eastern women are portrayed in the media as suicide bombers or gun-toting Israeli warriors.
*edit* do a google image search for "Israeli women" and you'll see right away what I'm talking about.

I know a lot of people of different races and I live in a very cosmopolitan city (London). My black friends will tell me about their experiences in dating black women vs white women etc. This stuff I'm exposed to on a regular basis.

[openeyes]

This is a weird article that seems to be bent on interpreting statistics to mean white men are bad, regardless of what the numbers say. Men are responded to ~30% of the time, and respond ~40% of the time.

By the stats given, middle eastern and asian women beat white women, and women in general beat men. Is that sexist?

This article could easily be written to say that people love many ethnic groups. It doesn't need to be written with a negative view to either gender or any ethnic group. Years ago when I created multiple fake dating profiles to research what was going on I found women, even with no pic or attempt to contact anyone, get a lot more messages than men, so their lower response rate could be simple time management/prioritization.

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

As if the Arizona shooting doesn't tell you...

here is a report by OKCupid from 2009:

How Your Race Affects The Messages You Get OkTrends





Doesn't that just brighten up your day?

I believe this. I've had the most write-backs from Asian and African-American men and the very least from Jewish men (who are not included in the study, but a lot of Jewish men are notoriously biased against Jewish women). And the white men over 30, who have jobs, often seem awfully, awfully smug. Thankfully, race isn't really an issue to me. But being Jewish is starting to be.

I can't report about what OKC is like for dating women. For some reason, I find women to be a lot easier to find so I don't bother looking - not easier to get with or be with, but easier to find. Gay people actually get together and socialize as gay people and make friends and the relationships seem to happen more naturally. I met and clicked with my ex through pretty normal, natural means.

[votoshka]

I will admit that I find white men more attractive overall...by that I mean I would find a higher % of white men attractive to me than black men or Asian men... but I don't think it's a color thing at all... it's more a facial structure thing?! It seems more whites have a facial structure I find attractive (I should really just say I prefer caucasians in facial structure generally, it's not the "white" that is attractive). I actually love the look of dark skin... and I love brown eyes... blue eyes seem sooo boring :P (That being said, eye color has never been a criteria I notice for attractiveness lol).

I don't see this as racist. Maybe my preferences are a product of my environment, but there's nothing racially motivated, it's just what I see as attractive to me, and there are definitely some guys who are black or asian who I find extremely attractive.

[Servina]

Originally Posted by Lionman

If I were to hazard a guess it would be a view that black women are more masculine and oriental men are less so, as a whole. Apparently oriental men have a harder time putting on muscle than other races due to some biological configuration for instance.

That in itself is racist. Black women aren't more masculine than white women. It's a brilliant example of your social conditioning.

[Servina]

Originally Posted by Brutha

According to the OkCupid data black men have similar preferences against black women as white men.
According to the article that you linked to above white women have it worse than Asians, Hispanics, Pacific Islanders, Indians, Middle Eastern women and "others".

It seems that you yourself have a strong biases about what the data should look like.

If this is completely about racism (hatred of a race) than why do woman prefer white men over all other races while men don't prefer white women over all other races?

I don't prefer white men.

The bias towards white men is to do with the cultural dominance of white men. White men shape everything in the west. They decide what's in or out legally and culturally. That means that to sustain social dominance, they've created the illusion that they're the more attractive choice, based on arbitrary reasons that are ingrained in us from birth.

If you go back to James81's favourite thread, "Women, do you consider yourself a feminist." You'll see that all cultural choices and preferences are shaped by white men. It's all down to the power they have. To be born a white man is a blessing, because you'll never know what it's like to have someone else's judgment of you shape anything in your life.

It's even gone so far as to create a bias among black men for white women! This really is to do with beauty stereotypes and media images.

[Servina]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Check out LOTR. All the good characters (except the dwarf, who is not meant to be pretty because he's a dwarf) have light eyes. All the bad characters have dark eyes.

Yep, all the baddies in Disney have dark hair and green eyes. I have dark hair and green eyes and so does my sister. My niece is being conditioned to think we're evil! She's even said to both of us "you look like a witch." Scary stuff. So if these stereotypes begin so early, what do you think is informing people's judgements?

[Servina]

Originally Posted by votoshka

I will admit that I find white men more attractive overall...by that I mean I would find a higher % of white men attractive to me than black men or Asian men... but I don't think it's a color thing at all... it's more a facial structure thing?! It seems more whites have a facial structure I find attractive (I should really just say I prefer caucasians in facial structure generally, it's not the "white" that is attractive). I actually love the look of dark skin... and I love brown eyes... blue eyes seem sooo boring :P (That being said, eye color has never been a criteria I notice for attractiveness lol).

I don't see this as racist. Maybe my preferences are a product of my environment, but there's nothing racially motivated, it's just what I see as attractive to me, and there are definitely some guys who are black or asian who I find extremely attractive.

Weird. I don't fancy the blonde ones. Never have. It's not so much about appearance or beauty for me as a visceral reaction. No idea where it comes from.

[Brutha]

The bias towards white men is to do with the cultural dominance of white men. White men shape everything in the west. They decide what's in or out legally and culturally. That means that to sustain social dominance, they've created the illusion that they're the more attractive choice, based on arbitrary reasons that are ingrained in us from birth.

White women have still a lot more power than those women from minority backgrounds. Why don't they have a similar advantage?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Brutha

White women have still a lot more power than those women from minority backgrounds. Why don't they have a similar advantage?

Maybe because they have more power, and men prefer women who have less power and are educated to be more submissive, like Asian or Middle Eastern women are seen to be, in the Western perception at least?

Note: that is not what I believe, it just occurred to me that it would make perfect sense in Servina's social power-based logic.

[Rose of Cairo]

When I moved from Europe to Brazil, my attractiveness dramatically went up. I totally noticed that I am, globally and in general, considered way more attractive here in Brazil.

Part of it could be biological/genetic attraction. We tend to be attracted to those people who are genetically most different from us, they say. I am certainly genetically closer to Europeans than to Brazilians. But that's not all.

I have a very white skin and don't tolerate sun well. In Europe being tanned is considered way more attractive. How often did I hear that I should "make some efforts", that I am "white as a wall" and that I should "get some sun".

Here everybody is more of less brown. So being white is great, just because it is rare. Plus, there is a degree of latent racism here. Blacker people tend to be poorer and the richer people tend to be whiter. Part of it might be for historic reasons (colonial times, slavery) and part of it is probably a racist bias that gives white people a better chance. I have noticed that people in commercials etc tend to be as white as possible while still looking Brazilian. And so on.

The point is that the same person (me) is considered more attractive in one culture and less in the other. Aside from genetic factors (if it were genetics alone, white women would prefer black or Asian men), I do think that cultural background definitely shapes our sexual taste to some extent.

It might be personal preference, but how come the Brazilians' personal preferences are so different, globally, from the Europeans' personal preferences?

[Weena]

Originally Posted by James81

I'm not physically attracted to black women. Does that make me racist?

No. You cannot control who you are physically attracted to. As you have explained you have a type you go for. I like curly hair and blue eyes. Can't tell you why though. My mother is the opposite, the darker the hair/eyes/skin the better. So it's not even in my genes...we are just unique in that respect

[InfinityCurve]

I'm almost never attracted to black women, most strongly to slavic/Italian looking white women (with dark hair & eyes). In general I prefer lighter skinned women. In general most men prefer fairer women (including black men) and most women prefer slightly darker men.

You could bemoan the condition of black women & Asian men but just means they gotta be more creative.

Originally Posted by Marth

I don't like this study at all or any race to dating fact sheet. And I lost a lot of respect for okcupid.

Why is that? It's just the truth.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Servina

Yep, all the baddies in Disney have dark hair and green eyes. I have dark hair and green eyes and so does my sister. My niece is being conditioned to think we're evil! She's even said to both of us "you look like a witch." Scary stuff. So if these stereotypes begin so early, what do you think is informing people's judgements?

Yeah. I know what you mean. A little girl (6 or 7) once came up to me and said "you're ugly." I was like, wha? She said "you have black hair and black eyes. You're ugly."

Ohhh kaaayy.

When I was little, though, I really wanted green eyes so that I would fit that witch stereotype.

[Cochonette]

No offense, people, but this discussion is a mess! There are things I'm just not going to repeat for the people who refuse to get it.

Like this question:

White women have still a lot more power than those women from minority backgrounds. Why don't they have a similar advantage?

Interesting question, but not a good one - it really doesn't change the evidence about white men either way. You are trying to distract from the point so you won't have to accept its obvious truth.

But if you want to go that route, look at the same-sex data:
Same-Sex Data for Race vs. Reply Rates OkTrends
There you'll see that white women reply a lot less than most other racial groups to other women, as do white men replying to other men. Have fun avoiding those facts.

Actually, the racism appears to be clearer by the gay/bi men than the lesbian/bi women, so does that mean men are generally more racist than women??? Okay, maybe not. That would be too much to infer.

To matters even more interesting, while white gays don't necessarily receive the most replies of any group, they don't dip as low as any other group does - they receive consistently mid-to-high response rates. The white male senders receive the least responses from other white males, but they receive more responses from other white males than does any other racial group. White females also receive the least responses from white females. What does that mean? That whites receive the most messages in the first place and thus can be pickier.

To be fair, though, whites are by far the largest group on OKCupid, which gives them an advantage. I'd be curious to see how it breaks down for my city, where half the population is black.

Maybe because they have more power, and men prefer women who have less power and are educated to be more submissive, like Asian or Middle Eastern women are seen to be, in the Western perception at least?

That is actually plausible. Good call.

Let's not forget there have been studies done on children showing that both black and white children will choose lighter-skinned dolls.

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

When I moved from Europe to Brazil, my attractiveness dramatically went up. I totally noticed that I am, globally and in general, considered way more attractive here in Brazil.

Part of it could be biological/genetic attraction. We tend to be attracted to those people who are genetically most different from us, they say. I am certainly genetically closer to Europeans than to Brazilians. But that's not all.

I have a very white skin and don't tolerate sun well. In Europe being tanned is considered way more attractive. How often did I hear that I should "make some efforts", that I am "white as a wall" and that I should "get some sun".

Here everybody is more of less brown. So being white is great, just because it is rare. Plus, there is a degree of latent racism here. Blacker people tend to be poorer and the richer people tend to be whiter. Part of it might be for historic reasons (colonial times, slavery) and part of it is probably a racist bias that gives white people a better chance. I have noticed that people in commercials etc tend to be as white as possible while still looking Brazilian. And so on.

The point is that the same person (me) is considered more attractive in one culture and less in the other. Aside from genetic factors (if it were genetics alone, white women would prefer black or Asian men), I do think that cultural background definitely shapes our sexual taste to some extent.

It might be personal preference, but how come the Brazilians' personal preferences are so different, globally, from the Europeans' personal preferences?

I have certainly heard this. White women, particularly blondes, often really stand out in areas where it is standard to have dark hair and eyes... and even very average looking women will be pursued vigorously by the natives! Hmm... I should go visit one of these places some day it could be a bit of an ego boost!

I've always envied those dark eyed exotic looking women when I look so white and ordinary! Some even find freckles attractive cause they just don't see many freckled people I've heard... I hate freckles with a passion LOL!

[SnerpGoodWord]

I notice they failed to normalize for a very important factor - weight. Black women are more likely to be obese than white women, who in turn are more likely than asians.

Not saying that's the entire effect, but it's probably part of it.

[Brutha]

Interesting question, but not a good one - it really doesn't change the evidence about white men either way. You are trying to distract from the point so you won't have to accept its obvious truth.

Actually it's evidence that white men don't prefer white women what you would expect if this would purely about preferring members of the dominant race.

Actually, the racism appears to be clearer by the gay/bi men than the lesbian/bi women, so does that mean men are generally more racist than women??? Okay, maybe not. That would be too much to infer.

It would be stupid to infer it because the data shows that gay men aren't representative in that regard.
What you however could infer is that being more masculine results in being less racist (if you define being racist as treating the dominant race favorably).

Another explanation would be that gays are a minority the same way that women are a minority both groups are more racist and care more about picking partners of high social standing (ie. members of the dominant race)?

The data doesn't suggest that socially powerful white man are somehow more racist than other people but rather that people of lower social class care about status differences and discriminate based on them.

[InfinityCurve]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Actually, the racism...

Sexual preference of one race over another isn't racism anymore than sexual preference of one sex or another is sexism.

Also, it's not solely cultural, it's mostly biological.

Human skin color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many historically favored and continue to favor lighter skin in women. In his foreword to Peter Frost's 2005 Fair Women, Dark Men, University of Washington sociologist Pierre L. van den Berghe writes: "Although virtually all cultures express a marked preference for fair female skin, even those with little or no exposure to European imperialism, and even those whose members are heavily pigmented, many are indifferent to male pigmentation or even prefer men to be darker."

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by Servina

That in itself is racist. Black women aren't more masculine than white women. It's a brilliant example of your social conditioning.

I admit I'm going out on a limb to find a reason for these patterns other than the parroted social conditioning argument, which as you can see by the couple of above posts, isn't the be all and end all. I haven't heard any other explanation and I don't see anyone else risking cred to explain it.

I'm far from racist (I have friends from many races). But if I get that label for trying to figure something out then whatever, I don't exactly have anything to loose here. I think people should think before shouting 'racist' though... I've discussed these topics with my black friends in a less formal way and we just laugh about it!

Biological differences in races is extreme walking on egg-shell territory and probably isn't really useful information and not something I usually think about. But I find this particular topic on attraction interesting so I'm willing to think and talk about it.

[Servina]

Originally Posted by Lionman

I admit I'm going out on a limb to find a reason for these patterns other than the parroted social conditioning argument, which as you can see by the couple of above posts, isn't the be all and end all. I haven't heard any other explanation and I don't see anyone else risking cred to explain it.

I'm far from racist (I have friends from many races). But if I get that label for trying to figure something out then whatever, I don't exactly have anything to loose here. I think people should think before shouting 'racist' though... I've discussed these topics with my black friends in a less formal way and we just laugh about it!

Biological differences in races is extreme walking on egg-shell territory and probably isn't really useful information and not something I usually think about. But I find this particular topic on attraction interesting so I'm willing to think and talk about it.

Ok, I just disagree with what you wrote.

[Servina]

Originally Posted by Brutha

White women have still a lot more power than those women from minority backgrounds. Why don't they have a similar advantage?

Because they're women. Agree or disagree Brutha?

[Angelique]

I don't understand why this data is important. It's one dating site, right? The tone of the article remind's me of goddess Eris, just looking to start some trouble. Great way for OKCupid to get some publicity.

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by Angelique

I don't understand why this data is important. It's one dating site, right? The tone of the article remind's me of goddess Eris, just looking to start some trouble. Great way for OKCupid to get some publicity.

Eris is also an asteroid.
Learn something new everyday, huh!

What I thought was pretty cool about the OKCupid stats is when you look at the astrology data at the beginning, the figure on the left shows a 60 match between all members of the Zodiac except Aquarius to Aquarius which is the only anomaly out of the 144 combinations. Aquarius happens to be the eccentric rule breaker of the zodiac so it's funny how Aquarius to Aquarius is the only anomaly of the data

[curiouslyrandom]

I prefer slightly fit/slightly heavyset men of Slavic or Celtic origin... probably because that's what my parents looked like. Those were the first faces I fell in love with at birth, and they're generally what I'm attracted to now. Every now and then I'll date a guy with dark hair, and those always turn out to be my most challenging relationships, for better or worse. I'm not interested in one of those now, I'd rather have someone I'm comfortable with and physically attracted to.

Now that I'm on okcupid again for the first time in 3 years, I'm finding all the guys I like are white and have a bit of beard and/or glasses. I'm such a sucker for that look, but at least I know it has to do with how my dad looked when I was a kid, and I'm okay with that. Doesn't make me a racist.

[supertom]

I think its a bit wacky having preferences, its like "shes really hot but alas she doesn't fit my preferences".

I've gone without preferences awhile now and its much better, just tune into your body in the moment, its very effective because sometimes I'm attracted before I've seen the person my body just alerts me.