Talk radio and the consequences of hate

[garentee]

I have been quite disturbed by what took place in Arizona the other day and am really bothered by the overtly hateful speech that has brought large profits to Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin in particular and several other talk radio pundits... These people have nothing but disdain for America and Freedom. It is a sad time we are witnessing... The end of America as it was...

[givejonadollar]

I'm getting a little tired of this Jared Laughner Arizona shooting case dominating the news. People get killed everyday. Politicians are no better than anyone else. They should be focusing on the lack of the security, instead of the lone nut, but they want to use this to pass more laws that strip freedoms.

This isn't a left wing, right wing, talk radio thing.

This is one guy.

I wish people would get it straight and not inject their personal agendas into this.

[GhostGoat]

Originally Posted by givejonadollar

I'm getting a little tired of this Jared Laughner Arizona shooting case dominating the news. People get killed everyday. Politicians are no better than anyone else. They should be focusing on the lack of the security, instead of the lone nut, but they want to use this to pass more laws that strip freedoms.

This isn't a left wing, right wing, talk radio thing.

This is one guy.

I wish people would get it straight and not inject their personal agendas into this.

...said the guy, who in another thread, recently wrote:

Libertarians own guns.

We win either way.

It's kind of like in the movie "Back to the Future".

"Now, boys, we can do this the easy way or the hard way"

If they want more of the same, it's the hard way.

If they want to return to liberty, life will get a lot easier.

[garentee]

I think this gives the issue of mental illness a little light. We in this country do NOT understand mental illness very well..and while it is true what Jon says that people do get killed everyday, it is hard to ignore the effects of violent speech from BOTH sides of the political spectrum epsecially when mixed with mental illness. It is a political issue because of the following:
1 Rep Giffords IS a politician
2 The Federal Judge is a Politician of sorts
3 Politicians always make political hay when tragedy hits..9/11 George Bush anyone? Anyone?

I am of the opinion that perhaps a little restraint in speech is necessary.. violent rhetoric is bad for business in my view..

Maturity is the ability to express one's own feelings and convictions balanced with consideration for the thoughts and feelings of others. (not my own words)

[garentee]

Check out this and tell me that this is NOT political and Not motivated by hate or suggestion... SICK!!!

Flashback: Giffords Opponent Had M16 Shooting Event, 'Help Remove Gabrielle Giffords From Office' | TPMDC

[t4488]

Originally Posted by garentee

I have been quite disturbed by what took place in Arizona the other day and am really bothered by the overtly hateful speech that has brought large profits to Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin in particular and several other talk radio pundits... These people have nothing but disdain for America and Freedom. It is a sad time we are witnessing... The end of America as it was...

There is no evidence that this was inspired by right wing political rhetoric. There has always been heated rhetoric from BOTH sides. This was a crazy guy. I could post several links to articles about left wing guys saying the same sorts of things. I think it is shameful they are trying to score political points off the deaths of these people. They were blaming Palin before the bodies were even cold, with NO evidence at all.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by garentee

Maturity is the ability to express one's own feelings and convictions balanced with consideration for the thoughts and feelings of others. (not my own words)

Maturity is to know what is real and what is not. Maturity is to turn off the raidio/TV/news/internet if you know you are effected by other's speech and opinions.

IMO people can say what they want. It's my responsibility to let it just be words and not be swayed by anyone's opinion. I make my own choices.

This needs to be taught in public school.

[wolfgang]

I liked this take on it.

It is Congress that has allowed the FDA to continue censoring the science behind nutritional supplements while pushing psychiatric drugs on children, for example. Did you know that vitamin D deficiency promotes schizophrenia? (Vitamin D myths, facts and statistics)

Did you know that most of the school shootings in the United States involve young males with a history of psychiatric drug use? (http://www.naturalnews.com/025826_A...)

Did you know that SSRI drugs (antidepressants) often promote violent thoughts, especially in young males? (Antidepressant drugs may cause aggressive, violent behavior in youth)

I have very high confidence that a blood test of Loughner would reveal striking nutritional deficiencies combined with blood sugar imbalances. His photo reveals pale white skin, for example -- a common indicator of chronic vitamin D deficiency.

Did you know that the vast majority of violent criminals currently serving time in U.S. prisons suffer from blood sugar imbalances caused by a lifetime of junk food consumption? (Sodas, processed sugar, etc.)

These are all issues on which Congress could have made a positive impact over the last several decades but refused to because corporate interests were at stake. The junk food, pharmaceutical and sick-care industries all have powerful lobbyists influencing the votes of members of Congress, and very few members of Congress have ever taken any real action to reduce the exposure of American children and teens to dangerous foods, additives, medications and chemicals that actually promote mental illness.


Learn more: How Congress helped created the very mental illness that resulted in the Giffords shooting

How Congress helped created the very mental illness that resulted in the Giffords shooting

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Maturity is to know what is real and what is not. Maturity is to turn off the raidio/TV/news/internet if you know you are effected by other's speech and opinions.

IMO people can say what they want. It's my responsibility to let it just be words and not be swayed by anyone's opinion. I make my own choices.

This needs to be taught in public school.

I agree with that.. however the speaker is to always take the audience into consideration which includes those among us who are less stable then we are..I used to have an extreme problem with saying thing without consideration of my audience and I lost friends because of it.. I find that there are a lot of people who are not all that mature and do not take responsibility for their words...Bottom line is that the political discourse in this country is unnecessary and to me shows an extremely violent streak to it... words do become deeds...never underestimate the power of abusive words...

[garentee]

Originally Posted by t4488

There is no evidence that this was inspired by right wing political rhetoric. There has always been heated rhetoric from BOTH sides. This was a crazy guy. I could post several links to articles about left wing guys saying the same sorts of things. I think it is shameful they are trying to score political points off the deaths of these people. They were blaming Palin before the bodies were even cold, with NO evidence at all.

I am not disagreeing with you.. I know both sides are guilty of this..This guy was mentally ill and we as a nation do not understand the seriousness of mental illness....If you think it was shameful of the politicians to make hay of this situation then 9/11 must have made you deliriously ill...I am in no way saying they ought to have made hay over this, but there is a very big difference between making hay and pointing out things in the nation that could be improved upon.. seriously I find it kind of ironic to be having this conversation on a personal development website.. where the idea is to look toward improving oneself.. that could go a long way to making this a stronger country.... Violence is unnecessary Its the easy thing to do... Lets as a country do the hard thing and use some restraint in our day to day discourse... this stuff does NOT happen in a vacuum..

[givejonadollar]

Originally Posted by GhostGoat

...said the guy, who in another thread, recently wrote:

Right, Ghost Goat, you are a typical liberal.

You don't draw correlations very well.

You are forgiven, and don't worry, we don't even have to shoot each other.

[desertrat]

They said one of Laughners fav. books was the commenistes manifesto. I would think that would put him as left as he could go . Why would he even listen to any thing from the right , hate or not ? The Pima county sherrif is talking out of his a** . I think Laughner is just not rite in the head . desert rat

[GhostGoat]

Originally Posted by givejonadollar

Right, Ghost Goat, you are a typical liberal.

You don't draw correlations very well.

You are forgiven, and don't worry, we don't even have to shoot each other.

In your post in the '2012 - The Vote' thread on 1-6-11, you seem to be glibly implying that libertarians will resort to violence if the 2012 election does not go your way. Tell me Jon, was I drawing the wrong corellation the way I was interpreting that?

[Andrew Brunelle]

He was mentally ill, totally messed up in the head. Kind of like the guy who shot up Virginia Tech. But this guy chose to target a politician, and he shot her in the head, among other people, killing 6. These things happen all over the world every day and they are wrong, but we need to put it into its proper context. Violence has been going on since the first tribe conquered its neighbors tens of thousands of years ago, and as of right now, it is a part of life.

I hate how now the government is going to use this tragedy as another way to restrict our freedoms, especially when it comes to guns, not that I think people like that lone gunman should be carrying. It's just there are a lot of ways that this tragedy is being milked to push different politicians' agendas, rather than mourning the losses of people who simply wanted to watch that Congresswoman speak.

And let's not get confused here. This has nothing to do with the supposed hate speech being spouted on Conservative radio. If you don't believe in that ideology, you don't have to listen. For those who do believe and think these people advocate violence, what do you think would happen if they truly did say something like, "We need to kill those Liberal politicians because that is the only way we'll ever have a truly Democratic America."? They would be thrown off the air.

People need to take responsibility for their actions, which I'm sure this gunman is already doing, seeing how he is in jail. It's just a shame that it happened and wasn't prevented in some way, although thank God his gun jammed after the first clip...

[secrets0stolen]

People fetishize it when someone in power gets killed while systematic violence gets written off as necessary. I don't watch cable news, but I've been hearing "they're blaming it on Sarah Palin!" from the living room for about a week now, so I figured someone got shot.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

And let's not get confused here. This has nothing to do with the supposed hate speech being spouted on Conservative radio. If you don't believe in that ideology, you don't have to listen. For those who do believe and think these people advocate violence, what do you think would happen if they truly did say something like, "We need to kill those Liberal politicians because that is the only way we'll ever have a truly Democratic America."? They would be thrown off the air.

..

Have you listened to Glenn Beck lately? Or ever? I am not advocating new legislation taking away rights, I am saying maybe just maybe we as a country can take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for our words and own them and realize that they are in fact hateful and violent... Both left and right, however the right seems to be a lot more over the top on this....

Follow this link if you are interested in seeing the connection between hate speech and actual violence.. If you want to continue having your head in the sand, I understand... This is not a left or right issue.. it is a NATION wide issue that does effect all of us.. and the rest of the world.. I will also say that this is not stictly just an American issue.. but a human issue... Violent talk that is.
Open Left:: The "Becking" Of America: How Right-Wing Media and Politicians Incite Violence
EDIT below:

Weather or not this case was caused by vitriolic rhetoric is immaterial at this point. It has happened.. My point may well be just that there needs to be a change in the way our public figures be they talk show hosts or leaders or what have you speak. Honestly the violence is really sickening.. not only that the way we talk to one another specifically on line is really a reason to feel sad for this country. One of the reasons that I do like this forum so much is that there is not so much of a contentious nature in the debate. At the end of the day What I see is that we as a nation are so fractured and divided that it is going to take a whole lot of work to get us back on track.. Certainly the left has an agenda and so does the right..and both of them are about dividing and conquering and NOT working with the other to bring this country to where it could be... we have so much going for us ...and we are just pissing it away..

[desertrat]

I hear an hour or two of Glenn Beck each morning he comes on rite after coast to coast on x.m. ch. 165 . Glenn Beck is a man of peace , he is a man of deep faith . Hate speach is not comming from him. He can be quite silly at times and I dont agree with him at times. Hate speach is out there left and right . Lets hope the focus will be in hleping the people with mental problems and events like happned in Tucson will not happen again. desert rat

[JSB]

No, Glenn Beck is a man of cash. If he could make twice the money spouting left-wing paranoid nonsense as he does spouting right-wing paranoid nonsense, he'd do it in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by desertrat

Glenn Beck is a man of peace , he is a man of deep faith .

[wolfgang]

The change that would help is for Congress to realize how they produce mentally ill citizens.

Media isn't covering that angle. Sure some say he was mentally off base, but I don't think I've heard any coverage talk about the government's role in that.

[AndrewCothran]

Originally Posted by garentee

I have been quite disturbed by what took place in Arizona the other day and am really bothered by the overtly hateful speech that has brought large profits to Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin in particular and several other talk radio pundits... These people have nothing but disdain for America and Freedom. It is a sad time we are witnessing... The end of America as it was...

I think the greater danger to the American people is not the insane and or evil gunmen ..It is that so many Americans take People like Palin and Beck so seriously ..We give them way too much credit as it is ..

[Brutha]

If you argue that gun rights are important because guns provide the opportunity of political resistance then it's a bit hypocritical to say that it has nothing to do with political activism when a person actually walks the talk of political resistance by shooting at elected officials.

I'm not saying that there aren't valid grounds that you can use for the right to bear arms.
If you however continuously say that they are important to keeping the government in check don't be surprised if people walk the talk.

[AndrewCothran]

Originally Posted by Brutha

If you argue that gun rights are important because guns provide the opportunity of political resistance then it's a bit hypocritical to say that it has nothing to do with political activism when a person actually walks the talk of political resistance by shooting at elected officials.

I'm not saying that there aren't valid grounds that you can use for the right to bear arms.
If you however continuously say that they are important to keeping the government in check don't be surprised if people walk the talk.

I agree with you i think you are spot on ..

[GhostGoat]

Originally Posted by desertrat

They said one of Laughners fav. books was the commenistes manifesto. I would think that would put him as left as he could go . Why would he even listen to any thing from the right , hate or not ? The Pima county sherrif is talking out of his a** . I think Laughner is just not rite in the head . desert rat

Ayn Rand's "We the Living" was also on his list of favorite books, and its very anti-communist. I agree that he was totally insane, and that's what drove him to go on a shooting rampage...not politics.

I guess a good question would be, do you think there should be public assistance for those who need mental help, but can't afford it, or have no insurance? The school that expelled him could have referred him to such a service, if one were to exist, or made it mandatory for him to see a doctor in order to stay in school.

Or do you think that its the mentally ills' own responsibility to seek out help, and the government shouldn't have a role in providing mental help assistance for those in need, since its not mentioned in the Constitiution?

[BillyTheAdult]

I can't help but think reading this thread, listening to the news congress people, etc. everyone keeps saying both sides, they even capitalize both to stress it, but you don't hear this kind of violent rhetoric coming from the left. People stress both I guess as a way try and foster an amicable settlement, but it's not accurate. Even since these shootings it hasn't stopped, it's gone right on like nothing happened. The political mood in America has become frighteningly polarized but only one side is making a habit of using violent imagery and threatening hate speech to get their point across. If you listen to news reports from other parts of the world (during the immediately following days, haven't listened anymore sense) the U.S is the about the only nation that regards this as an issue coming from both sides of the bench. From most of what I've heard European nations and the U.K. regard it as a right wing caused problem. I will not be posting anymore in this thread because I don't wish to get caught up debate.

[GhostGoat]

At first I thought that he was a right-winger who went over the edge, but the more I have learned about Loughner, that was clearly not the case. His political views seemed to be a mix of the right and the left, and insanity was the real driving force here.

There was an interesting piece on him tonight on 60 Minutes, that examined him and other assassins (& would-be assassins). Two authors interviewed 20 incarcerated assassin/stalkers, and insanity was the thread that connected them all. None of them had political views strong enough to fire them up enough to kill, or plan to kill, someone.

[t4488]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

I can't help but think reading this thread, listening to the news congress people, etc. everyone keeps saying both sides, they even capitalize both to stress it, but you don't hear this kind of violent rhetoric coming from the left. People stress both I guess as a way try and foster an amicable settlement, but it's not accurate. Even since these shootings it hasn't stopped, it's gone right on like nothing happened. The political mood in America has become frighteningly polarized but only one side is making a habit of using violent imagery and threatening hate speech to get their point across. If you listen to news reports from other parts of the world (during the immediately following days, haven't listened anymore sense) the U.S is the about the only nation that regards this as an issue coming from both sides of the bench. From most of what I've heard European nations and the U.K. regard it as a right wing caused problem. I will not be posting anymore in this thread because I don't wish to get caught up debate.

I would have to disagree. Here is a story about one of the wounded victims threatening a tea party leader. The shooting had nothing to do with the tea party but all the left wing media has convinced this guy they do.

'You're dead!' victim yells at Tea Party spokesman - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

There are many more similar stories.

[BillyTheAdult]

The man mentioned in this article, while not in the right, was shot twice during the Arizona shootings. I have not myself heard other examples of liberals perpetrating these kind of actions, but I sure some could be dug up. It is a country of nearly 300 million after all. I would still maintain that the rhetoric is a big problem for both sides, but really only (for the most part) turns violent on the right. I concede that no one can make anyone else do anything, but there certainly is a willful influence exerted, if there wasn't why even bother having editorials at all. here is an article about the would be California shooter giving credit to his actions directly to Glenn Beck.

Glenn Beck and the Oakland shooter

Congresswoman Gifford predicted that something like this would happen to her after a bullseye was placed over her her district on Sarah Palin's website and if clicked on shows an image of the congress womans face People on the right are saying things like 2nd amendment solution, to the Harry Reid problem. Don't retreat reload. and then portray the left with words such as socialist, communist, fascist, and other terms that imply being enemies of America. What does anyone expect will happen when this language is repeated to the point that it becomes part of the common vernacular. No one needs to be given a specific instruction anymore at that point.

[t4488]

Originally Posted by BillyTheAdult

The man mentioned in this article, while not in the right, was shot twice during the Arizona shootings. I have not myself heard other examples of liberals perpetrating these kind of actions, but I sure some could be dug up. It is a country of nearly 300 million after all. I would still maintain that the rhetoric is a big problem for both sides, but really only (for the most part) turns violent on the right. I concede that no one can make anyone else do anything, but there certainly is a willful influence exerted, if there wasn't why even bother having editorials at all. here is an article about the would be California shooter giving credit to his actions directly to Glenn Beck.

Glenn Beck and the Oakland shooter

Congresswoman Gifford predicted that something like this would happen to her after a bullseye was placed over her her district on Sarah Palin's website and if clicked on shows an image of the congress womans face People on the right are saying things like 2nd amendment solution, to the Harry Reid problem. Don't retreat reload. and then portray the left with words such as socialist, communist, fascist, and other terms that imply being enemies of America. What does anyone expect will happen when this language is repeated to the point that it becomes part of the common vernacular. No one needs to be given a specific instruction anymore at that point.

The point I was making was that the wounded victim was influenced by the non-stop blame Sarah Palin and the tea party rhetoric spewed by the main stream media starting a half hour after the shooting. Do they bear no responsibilty for their rhetoric and for influencing this man?

Democrats used bulls-eyes to mark the seats they wanted in 2006 and both sides call close states "battle ground states".

Or how about this Democrat representative.
"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."

Sorry, but it goes on both sides, has for years. Actually, things are probably more civil than they were 150 years ago.

[BillyTheAdult]

Originally Posted by t4488

The point I was making was that the wounded victim was influenced by the non-stop blame Sarah Palin and the tea party rhetoric spewed by the main stream media starting a half hour after the shooting. Do they bear no responsibilty for their rhetoric and for influencing this man?

Democrats used bulls-eyes to mark the seats they wanted in 2006 and both sides call close states "battle ground states".

Or how about this Democrat representative.
"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."

Sorry, but it goes on both sides, has for years. Actually, things are probably more civil than they were 150 years ago.

Yes I already said I knew some democrats were doing it too. There is a difference between individuals on occasions that can picked as examples on one side, and a daily strategy used by large numbers of a party on the other. There is a difference between saying a battleground state which is so common it is part of accepted vernacular and saying there should be a second amendment solution for the Harry Reid problem.

[Brutha]

If you listen to news reports from other parts of the world (during the immediately following days, haven't listened anymore sense) the U.S is the about the only nation that regards this as an issue coming from both sides of the bench.

Many countries have laws that prevent you to call for someone's head.
In Germany it's one of the lessons we learned from the failure of the Weimar republic.