2012 real or fake?

[yassine]

everybody is talking about the end of the world in 2012, I think maybe there is a chance that its not gonna happen. Maybe something is gonna happen in 2012, ( no reason to go to school because I graduate in that year lool). All those scientist always state that earth is gonna end in 1.5 billion years. I think everybody is just throwing ridiculous dates of when life is ending, what do you think?

[Cado]

It's bollocks. The Mayans never said the world would end when the calendar stopped. In fact another long count calendar begins as soon as this one ends, just like ours starts over every year.

As for planet X, pole reversals, etc... Pure bollocks. All of it is either impossible or they have zero proof. If the world ends in 2012 it won't have anything to do with such predictions.

[Dharma]

I believe the indigenous tribes pushed it up to February 19 2013 or so.

[desertrat]

The Mayans made that calandar like 1000 years ago , I think they ran out or rock. They intended to add on to it but the conquistors came and took over . desert rat

[wstein]

It's a real misunderstanding. The Mayan text does not say it's the end of the world, just the end of the world as we know it. At the end of this cycle, a new one will start. Doom and gloom is popular among the doom-and-gloom, drama-and-trauma, and news crowds. There have been many, many predictions of the end and sadly we are still here. I don't place any stock that anything noticeably different will happen.

[GeorgeMagister]

I don't know why the public fascination with December 2012 is so polarized into a binary.

The Mayans had very savvy and sophisticated astronomers and mathematicians. Fear abounds about what they may have anticipated or calculated would happen when the last Long Count cycle ends. Others contend a link between the Long Count and the axial precession. The feeling is that the new astrological age heralds something. Perhaps it's only that they didn't feel they should issue the next Long Count cycle, especially given their creation mythology. Ask an almanac company, today, to publish an edition for the years 2800-2900 and see what happens. If the Mayan civilization was still in some form around today, I'm certain they would have reconsidered doing the next Long Count by now.

Most of the contemporary pop-culture debate over 2012 is over Nostradamus' published poetic interpretations of his divination sessions. Honestly, this is so puzzling, the way the Western world's captivated imagination empower specific interpretations of one man's poetry. Like the books in the Christian Bible, you can twist any passage into a prophesied doom-and-gloom scenario.

Human beings have a knack for searching out concrete objective insight of the future, from their clever meditations over someone else's writings.

If there was any precognitive insight glimpsed by the mind of Nostradamus at all, by the time you decide to trust in what a fringe scholar says about it, it will have been secondhand, at the very least. When you get right down to it, the only one who knows what they saw is Nostradamus, and a subjective point-of-view is just that. His cantos are poetic imagery, by the way, not a good way to sum up the fate of all the world's civilizations with certainty.

There is simply so much we do not know about the physical world, and while information may travel along a future light cone of sorts, it isn't a safe bet to live in fear of a possibility; or, to make life-altering decisions based on any information you get regarding 2012.

I've accepted that there's a chance of an important trend in coming years, but that's all anyone could say of a mountain coming up over the horizon. The audacity for anyone to attribute it to a date or even just a year, 2012, seems laughable. And, to say that it must herald the end of civilization seems so errant and grasping at straws to find meaning.

One of the best characterizations about the whole issue is Erin Pavlina's blog entry here.

[desertrat]

I have lived through many "end of the world " events . In 1977 we had an alement of the big planets they said the gravity would pull the earth apart. Through the mid 90 s they said most of north America would flood .Some said Calf would fall into the ocean. On 1/1/2000 they said all the computers would chrash . Something was soposed to happen on 5/5/2000 , I dont think it did, it was my 43 rd birthday. Other that the winter solestest 12/21/2012 will be just another day .

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by desertrat

Other that the winter solestest 12/21/2012 will be just another day .

For some of us, ie. half the world, it's the summer solstice.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by desertrat

I have lived through many "end of the world " events . In 1977 we had an alement of the big planets they said the gravity would pull the earth apart. Through the mid 90 s they said most of north America would flood .Some said Calf would fall into the ocean. On 1/1/2000 they said all the computers would chrash . Something was soposed to happen on 5/5/2000 , I dont think it did, it was my 43 rd birthday. Other that the winter solestest 12/21/2012 will be just another day .

We are near the same age... I remember watching Neil Armstrong set foot on what looked like and was supposed to be the Moon in July of 1969.

I knew I was part of a "Special Generation" and not just part of the "Pepsi Generation" because "You have a lot to live and Pepsi has a lot to give".

I started setting up a "Y2K" bunker in 1998 and by December 31, 1999, I was stocked, cocked, locked and loaded.

My neighbors laughed at me and I let the bunker fall into damp moldy decay, never thinking I would ever have a need for it. I sold all the guns and ammo and gave all the canned food to the local food bank in 2001. The night vision goggles broke long ago and someone stole all my propane tanks.

I suppose I had better get to work restoring the bunker and converting it into a "Y2K12" Bunker. This time I think I will add some gas masks and some NBC chemical suits in case oily toxic radioactive rain comes up from the Gulf of Mexico. And maybe a Geiger counter or two.

Is 2012 going to be the end of the earth?

Definitely NOT!

But it could be the beginning of something even worse than the end of the earth for those who survive what is to come. Because some things are worse than death.

As a semi-Christian, I can say that the eschatological interpretations and beliefs I subscribe to call for 7 really bad years of "Tribulation" that may have already begun or may be beginning any time now. This will culminate with the "Battle of Armageddon" and this will require 7 years for the survivors to bury all of the dead. Then following that, we will have 1,000 years of Peace!

[ar81]

Originally Posted by yassine

everybody is talking about the end of the world in 2012, I think maybe there is a chance that its not gonna happen. Maybe something is gonna happen in 2012, ( no reason to go to school because I graduate in that year lool). All those scientist always state that earth is gonna end in 1.5 billion years. I think everybody is just throwing ridiculous dates of when life is ending, what do you think?

Mayan calendar was used for agriculture.
If you fear death caused by agricultural monsters, you may have a good reason to fear.
2012 is an urban legend created by the media.

Nostradamus? I bought the original text. It seems a collection of senseless statements (like the one an addict would write) and it has no chronological order and it is not sorted by topic. I even got to find verses that may be used to forecast soccer games in this world cup.

Except for the end of the US economy (the online videogame we play on bank servers), I see no signs of the end of the world. But this end would not be random, but caused by the latinamericanization of Americans.

In the 1970s Latin America had a very good economy. In 1980 the latinamericanization of Latin America began. Banks made themselves to be bailed out. George Soros explains it here:

Anatomy of a Crisis | George Soros
The international banking system would have collapsed if the authorities had not banded together to save it. They established what I called the “collective system of lending”. The central banks ordered the banks under their control to roll over their loans and the international financial authorities extended enough additional credit to the heavily indebted countries to enable them to remain current on interest payments and redemptions. The IMF imposed harsh conditions on the debtor countries while the regulatory restrictions on the banks were actually relaxed in order to allow them to earn their way out of a hole. After several years, when the banks built up sufficient reserves, the debtor countries were encouraged to reorganize their debts by issuing so called Brady bonds and the banks had to take some losses. The net result was a lost decade for Latin America but a big boost to the international banking system.

Latinamericanization is not the end. Americans will be latinamericanized by banks. This is not a random event, just like it was not in the 1980s.

Originally Posted by desertrat

I have lived through many "end of the world " events . In 1977 we had an alement of the big planets they said the gravity would pull the earth apart. Through the mid 90 s they said most of north America would flood .Some said Calf would fall into the ocean. On 1/1/2000 they said all the computers would chrash . Something was soposed to happen on 5/5/2000 , I dont think it did, it was my 43 rd birthday. Other that the winter solestest 12/21/2012 will be just another day .

Wow!! You must be a survivor!! How did you manage to survive all these ends of the world??

[Dharma]

It is the end of a cycle and a new one begins. Most importantly is the procession of the equinoxes. A.K.A. the earth's "wobble". As the earth's axis points away from the center of our galaxy, we go to sleep. Our consciousness fades. It is part of an evolutionary cycle.

When the axis first started pointing away from the galaxy's center (just after the mid-point) the male energy took over as the protector for 13,000 years. 12/12/2012ish is the end of the next cycle. The earth will be at its farthest point away from the galaxy's center. ... we will be at our most unconscious. We need to live through this so after 12/12/2012, we start pointing back towards the galaxy center, we slowly start to wake up, we can fix our world.

Remember we pretty much destroyed the earth and about 1/2 the species that live on her in about 120 years. That's what I mean when we are closing in on our most unconscious point in time. We have to not kill the planet before then. (a la Gulf oil spill) Your consciousness and presence is needed, daily, more than ever. If we destroy our species before 2012-2013, well it's game over for this consciousness. Don't think it can't happen... look what we did in 120 years. We have 2 to go.

Be present. Be conscious. Connect with the Earth more than you ever have.

[ar81]

Our calendar ends on december 31st, the end of an era.
Why don't I see you in panic every January 1st?

[Brutha]

Our amount of Mayan writing is very limited.
I think there a single document that suggests that 2012 might have a special meaning for them.

Making assessments about the honest beliefs of the Mayans through their writing that survived is like people in a thousand years picking the most printed books from our time (the one most likely to survive), "The Bible", "Harry Potter" and "Twillight" and then trying to make an accurate assessment of our civilization based on those books.

It gets even more complicated if you aren't willing to look at the surviving Mayan literature directly but only are interested in what other people who also haven't read the Mayan literature say about a Mayan prediction about the end of the world.

All those scientist always state that earth is gonna end in 1.5 billion years.

No, no good scientist makes that claim.

[ar81]

According to astrology, cycles start with fire (Aries) and end in vacuum and spirituality (Pisces). No Hollywood disasters, fireworks or theatrical entrances for the end of a cycle.

According to the bible, second coming of the messiah will be a surprise "like a thief in the night". No dates. Jesus was not a politician or a revolutionary leader leading armies. There is no reason to think he will be a politician this time.

According to esoteric people, evolution cycles take 7 root races. People from Atlantis were the 4th root race. We are 5th. If we make a wild guess and underestimate time, and consider Atlatis sank 11,000 years ago, it means that we still have at least 22,000 remaining years of evolution before the end.

Mayan calendar is used for agriculture. Just like we celebrate New Year, probably they might celebrate something too when a cycle is complete.

According to science, Apophis will pass in 2029 and 2036 near Earth. It is a more real threat, and guess what. Politicians are doing nothing about it. Do you think politicians fear the end of the world? No. Fear is used to control people. Urban legends are useful for that.

Quechua indians in south america (people think about them as Inca empire) believed in a prophecy about the end of the world. The last Inca (Inca means quechua emperor, and their ethnic group is quechua, not Inca) wanted to stop the prophecy. So he dedicated all his life to make his empire a place of prosperity and happiness. But his sons were rivals.

In his last years he feared he could not stop it. Upon his death, his sons started to fight for power, Spanish came and helped both sides until they were so weak that they were easily conquered. However there was a ressistance that lasted 40 years.

And the end of the Quechua empire and Quechua world came to an end. But it was not the end of the world, just the end of the Quechua empire.

When you see Machu Picchu you feel terribly impressed because of the precision of construction. Huge rock blocks so precisely sculpted that you can't insert a paper sheet between them. And they are located on top of a very steep mountain. There are places where you may fall a bit less than half a mile if you do not care about where you step.

[desertrat]

It is too bad most of the Mayain reccords were destroyed , they and many mezo American peoples were perty smart . I have herd transulations of the end of there calindar , it is like an interesting time , or a time of change . I think a few of us will look inward , and for us it will be a time of change .On the end of the earth the current beilef is at some time the sun will use up most of its hydrogen , expand and engulf the earth. Hopefuly at that time humanity will have found a new home , or evolved beyound phy. bodies . desert rat

[mityno]

The Mayan Civilization has pretty much disintegrated by the 800's AD.

Maybe a drought or disease decimated them?

Or maybe the people just grew tired of the Mayan religion that included human sacrifices?

I agree with the other posters that infer the Mayans were apparently not skilled enough in the arts of divination to forecast the demise of their own culture, yet some 1,200 years after they went kaput, yet we are worried about the end date of their last calender?

[ar81]

Originally Posted by mityno

The Mayan Civilization has pretty much disintegrated by the 800's AD.

Maybe a drought or disease decimated them?

Or maybe the people just grew tired of the Mayan religion that included human sacrifices?

I agree with the other posters that infer the Mayans were apparently not skilled enough in the arts of divination to forecast the demise of their own culture, yet some 1,200 years after they went kaput, yet we are worried about the end date of their last calender?

Killing people in the name of god or a nation, is about the same.
We are no better than them.

Between human sacrifice and colateral damage there is not too much difference. At least a sacrifice would avoid the use of torture as it happens in the concentration camps that exist nowadays.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by ar81

Killing people in the name of god or a nation, is about the same.
We are no better than them.

Between human sacrifice and colateral damage there is not too much difference. At least a sacrifice would avoid the use of torture as it happens in the concentration camps that exist nowadays.

I agree.

But life here on this planet is a series of repeating loops, not all of them good or pleasant.

[ShinyGlass]

I've been heavily YouTubing David Wilcock lately.. what he has to say about 2012 (as well as some other things) is pretty mind blowing. I'm not exactly sure about any of it, but I love the trips my mind is taking thinking about these things

YouTube - The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock Pt. 01

[Barcs]

The Mayan calendar(s) was used for way more than just agriculture. It was also used as a personal calendar plus it predicted solar eclipses and whatnot hundreds of years in advanced. Highly accurate calendar is an understatement. I doubt the world's ending in 2012, but scientifically there are a few things that coincide with the end of the calendar. First, for the first time in about 25,000 years that the earth and sun will both be directly lined up with the galactic center. Second, the sun will be at the activity peak of the current solar cycle. This could cause abnormalities, but I really don't think the world is getting destroyed. I could see the earth getting hit with more solar flares than usual, as this could affect the magnetosphere, but I doubt anything crazier than that. As far as Nibiru, aliens and apocalypse are concerned there is no evidence of that, although the Mayans DID indeed have a doomsday prophecy. The assumptions come from it being linked to the end of the calendar. There's a good chance the calendar just starts over at the end of 2012 and the cycle begins anew.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by ShinyGlass

I've been heavily YouTubing David Wilcock lately.. what he has to say about 2012 (as well as some other things) is pretty mind blowing. I'm not exactly sure about any of it, but I love the trips my mind is taking thinking about these things

YouTube - The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock Pt. 01

I would like to point out that David Wilcock talks a lot but he rarely provides anything that backs him up. On his site there are numerous articles where he says "we have so much proof" but he never links to it in the article itself, of if he does it's something very tenuous like a news report that only serves as evidence of what he's saying if you already subscribe to his worldview. (This is most pronounced when he delves into the "science" behind what he's saying.)

Something else which is rather unsettling is that he has a hostile attitude toward skeptics. I recall there was an article released near the end of last year, maybe early this year where he invoked emotion and called out the skeptics as being closed minded, fearful, etc. Anyone who does that without providing substantial evidence for what they're saying isn't worth listening to.

Now I've never been to his conferences, I haven't bought any of his products, but I shouldn't have to in order to get some inkling of proof, a little token that shows he should be taken seriously. As it stands he seems like someone who's milking 2012 for all it's worth. At best I would call him sincerely deluded.

[elucidate]

If you spoke to real Mayans these days, I'm sure they would tell you they are more concerned about lack of rain and the effect it is having on their agricultural industries.

People love to play chinese whispers, and twist words around to have a dire meaning. It keeps them feeling excited, on the edge of their seat and cures the underlying boredom...for a while anyway

[siryessir08]

The Mayans knew something.

The world will not end in 2012. It will be reborn.

The consciousness of the planet will be raised substantially, with mass awakenings all over the planet.

....I didn't believe this stuff before, but I've been seeing signs....

[Cado]

Originally Posted by siryessir08

....I didn't believe this stuff before, but I've been seeing signs....

Like...?

[elucidate]

Well yes, but consciousness has been rising and changing for quite a while now...since the 60's infact. Sure, there are more people waking up to things in the world, and things have been quickening definately, we are evolving as we always have.

I don't see why this isn't just another example of people all getting worked up over some big things that's supposed to happen...talking about it, validating it in their minds by others until it becomes a 'consensus reality' and then they wait...like christians are still waiting for Jesus to return. How long have they been waiting now...freakin' years.

I think people just like the promise of some big cataclysmic event...even if it never comes. Keeps them looking forward to something better. Nothing wrong with it.

Originally Posted by siryessir08

The Mayans knew something.

The world will not end in 2012. It will be reborn.

The consciousness of the planet will be raised substantially, with mass awakenings all over the planet.

....I didn't believe this stuff before, but I've been seeing signs....

[lspeirs]

Originally Posted by Dharma

It is the end of a cycle and a new one begins. Most importantly is the procession of the equinoxes. A.K.A. the earth's "wobble". As the earth's axis points away from the center of our galaxy, we go to sleep. Our consciousness fades. It is part of an evolutionary cycle.

When the axis first started pointing away from the galaxy's center (just after the mid-point) the male energy took over as the protector for 13,000 years. 12/12/2012ish is the end of the next cycle. The earth will be at its farthest point away from the galaxy's center. ... we will be at our most unconscious. We need to live through this so after 12/12/2012, we start pointing back towards the galaxy center, we slowly start to wake up, we can fix our world.

This is interesting and I have read something similar about the earth wobble and alignment etc. So if we are heading for our most unconscious time in 2012, how does that explain that humanity has been experiencing a waking up and raising of consciousness since the 60s? My understanding is that 2012 coincides with the coming of the Age of Aquarius, the effects of which have been felt for the last 40 years or so, but which are accelerating as we move through and beyond 2012.

I have also read something about energy speeding up and manifestation happening faster and faster so we see the effects of our actions in this lifetime as opposed to future lifetimes. In fact my take on it all is that the apparent chaos in the world (war, climate change, oil spills etc etc) is simply serving to act as a mirror of our fears to help us wake up faster and motivate us to seek to manifest a better world. I think it's all serving the opening of the heart chakra to be able to love unconditionally. The more attrocities we see, the more we desire peace and love in the world, right?
I think this is what the Mayans may have predicted - the opening of the heart chakra which, if we rise to the challenge, could lead to the dawning of a new age of global peace and love.

P.S. I have also read that the last age of aquarius was Atlantis in which humanity was allegedly highly enlightened. But it all went horribly wrong when someone let power go to their heads and this led to the fall of Atlantis. I have read that the coming age is our chance to recreate the Age of Atlantis and get it right this time.

So, if this is true then we just need to chill, love everyone and we'll all be fine

[ZephyrusX]

I have also read something about energy speeding up and manifestation happening faster and faster so we see the effects of our actions in this lifetime as opposed to future lifetimes. In fact my take on it all is that the apparent chaos in the world (war, climate change, oil spills etc etc) is simply serving to act as a mirror of our fears to help us wake up faster and motivate us to seek to manifest a better world. I think it's all serving the opening of the heart chakra to be able to love unconditionally. The more attrocities we see, the more we desire peace and love in the world, right?
I think this is what the Mayans may have predicted - the opening of the heart chakra which, if we rise to the challenge, could lead to the dawning of a new age of global peace and love.

Or changes in the media and information technology (IT) merely make it seem like that ‘chaos in the world’ is manifesting at greater speeds from the subjective stand point of the viewer. I doubt that there is actually more disasters (whether natural or human made) occurring presently than in the past. And although the media and IT creates a possibility for the viewer to respond actively against social marginalization and environmental degradation, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will. I think a lot of North Americans take one look at the media and respond to war and genocide with an indifferent, ‘this is unreal’ attitude. And to be fair, the current state of our media is hardly conducive towards greater understanding of the situation. Having said that however, I think IT is progressing to the point where media could radically change. If the model presented by Wikileaks is sustainable and replicable (which it might not be… it must cost a lot of money and human capital to run it), ‘radical journalism’ could change the way people see the world and react to it. That is assuming though that Wikileaks has the potential to reach the majority of people. I sought out Wikileaks on my own accord; preaching to the choir doesn’t necessarily change anything.

[ar81]

For some reason US has a US centered view in the urban legend of the end of the world.

Nostradamus urban legend is a clear example. His writings are like the writings of a drug addict, senseless stuff without any order. Some people have said he predicted "fire from the sky at latitude 45 north" and they say "It's New York 9/11". If someone wanted to scare Americans so they go to war, he only may need to make the prophecy come true, so the interpretation of the prophecy becomes cause of the event and not effect.

But such description of "fire from the sky at latitude 45 north" may also fit war in Osetia, Korea war airstrikes in 1950, or even the atomic bombs on Japan in 1945.

Urban legends about end of the world are ridiculous.