AZ Going After Children

[Cochonette]

Another AZ Bill To Require Schools To Report Undocumented Children/Students

That's just below the belt.

If passed, SB 1097 would compel teachers and administrators to determine the legal status of students and their families, almost certainly discouraging enrollment and parental participation at school. The bill’s sponsor is state Senator Russell Pearce, a longtime leader of Arizona’s anti-immigration right wing and the legislator who crafted the recent immigration enforcement law.

[funchy]

I have nothing against immigrants at all; my own family came to the US long ago from areas in western European. However, I'm undecided how I feel about giving handouts to non-citizens who are breaking the law by being here. We know illegals can't/don't pay taxes. Is it fair for taxpayers to basically take food out of their own kids' mouths so that other peoples' kids who should not be here can get what they want? Right now with record unemployment and ongoing home foreclosures, can the tax-paying Americans really afford higher and higher taxes?

It also seems unfair that people who follow legal channels may never get the chance to come to the US. But if someone can get themselves to the Mexico/US border, he/she can just walk in, butting in line ahead of Europeans, Africans, Asians, and Australians who respected US laws. I don't like that those sneaking under the border are getting freebies and eventual amnesty... while those in more desperate situations such as war-torn African nations are stuck there starving to death.

Perhaps the bigger picture is should we have limits on immigration at all -- yes or no? If not, what do you do with the tax base when a huge influx of unemployed, unskilled workers floods an area? This puts a strain on schools, medical care, welfare programs, and other social benefits. Which leads into the question who should pay for an individual's healthcare or food -- his neighbors (via taxes) or himself?

[desertrat]

This has not on the local news , but if it makes its way through the AZ senate and house it will be. This will make the teachers cops and I dought many will go along with it. The schools and the state gov are in deep money trouble . On 5/18 we vote on a 1 cent sales tax increase . I will vote no. I haft to be careful with my money the state can be to . desert rat

[Cochonette]

funchy, first of all, this is a little bit off-topic and has nothing to do with why it's okay to discourage children from going to school. But, I will reply anyway: If we can't prevent immigrants from crossing the border in an ethical manner, that's our fault, not theirs. Is it worse that they are crossing the border illegally, or that the U.S. is now filled with racist, anti-immigrant people who are so focused on trying to get those Mexicans back across the border that they just see a bunch of "alien" monsters and ignore everything the U.S. is doing to encourage the process of migration?

I don't like that those sneaking under the border are getting freebies and eventual amnesty... while those in more desperate situations such as war-torn African nations are stuck there starving to death.

I don't know what you are talking about? What does immigration from Mexico have to do with people in Africa starving to death? The U.S. is exploiting Africa, food-dumping, and causing Africa's starvation; I am far more concerned about that.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by funchy

I have nothing against immigrants at all; my own family came to the US long ago from areas in western European. However, I'm undecided how I feel about giving handouts to non-citizens who are breaking the law by being here. We know illegals can't/don't pay taxes. Is it fair for taxpayers to basically take food out of their own kids' mouths so that other peoples' kids who should not be here can get what they want? Right now with record unemployment and ongoing home foreclosures, can the tax-paying Americans really afford higher and higher taxes?

It also seems unfair that people who follow legal channels may never get the chance to come to the US. But if someone can get themselves to the Mexico/US border, he/she can just walk in, butting in line ahead of Europeans, Africans, Asians, and Australians who respected US laws. I don't like that those sneaking under the border are getting freebies and eventual amnesty... while those in more desperate situations such as war-torn African nations are stuck there starving to death.

Perhaps the bigger picture is should we have limits on immigration at all -- yes or no? If not, what do you do with the tax base when a huge influx of unemployed, unskilled workers floods an area? This puts a strain on schools, medical care, welfare programs, and other social benefits. Which leads into the question who should pay for an individual's healthcare or food -- his neighbors (via taxes) or himself?

Exactly. Very well said!

Originally Posted by Cochonette

...If we can't prevent immigrants from crossing the border in an ethical manner, that's our fault, not theirs...

I totally agree.

Reagan sucked because he granted amnesty and didn't secure our borders.

Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, and now Obama all suck because they refused to secure our borders.

Say you live in a home with a ground level sliding glass door and the door is missing, thus leaving a large gaping hole in the back of your home. Your neighbors and a few strangers wander in, eat your food, watch you TV, lounge and sleep on your furniture. You must reduce the number of guests and family that you can invite to visit you and/or come and live with you because of all the folks wandering in and hanging out at your expense.

It would be different if these uninvited guests actually wanted to become part of your family and help share household expenses and help pay the rent. But they don't want to ever assimilate into your family, they just want the cash, food and benefits they can get and they want to maintain their separate identity apart from your family.

Personally, I would feel very insulted by these rude people and I would do what I had to do to help them back to their own homes and I would fix the big hole in my back wall so they would have to knock on my front door and be INVITED into my home if they wanted to visit with me.

And now this makes me a racist?

[desertrat]

The broken sliding glass door is a major problem and needs to be fixed. Some of the uninvited guests are a problem and never assimialete. Some learn English and become more or less American. I think the queston is. Is it cheeper or better to give them a k-12 education and most will be procuctive people or deny them an education and have them in trouble out on the streets ? desert rat

[Cochonette]

Personally, I would feel very insulted by these rude people and I would do what I had to do to help them back to their own homes and I would fix the big hole in my back wall so they would have to knock on my front door and be INVITED into my home if they wanted to visit with me.

And now this makes me a racist?

If you believe that people should be interrogated on the basis of their race just so you can promote your agenda, then that is racist.

Also, your house is not a very good metaphor unless you want to start talking about how you from your house are exploiting those who want to eat your food and encouraging them to come in secretly through the back door so you can exploit them.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

If you believe that people should be interrogated on the basis of their race just so you can promote your agenda, then that is racist.

Do the police have a "right" to search my car because they see I have a concealed carry gun permit when I open my wallet to give them my driver's license?

When we all get our mandatory implanted chips someday, the scanners will identify us from a distance so ALL people will be scanned equally and those without government permission to be somewhere will be arrested. See how the One World Government and one single Supreme Dictator is going to solve all of our problems?

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Also, your house is not a very good metaphor unless you want to start talking about how you from your house are exploiting those who want to eat your food and encouraging them to come in secretly through the back door so you can exploit them.

Amen! I think we agree on how corporate interests own the US Government and are really in charge of this shame we call "America". Allowing the border to go unsecured and then tempting the poor and underprivileged people to our south to sneak across for a better life is a crime against Americans and those "Undocumented Immigrants" as well. But it shows us clearly who is really in charge and how little they care about exploiting anyone and everyone for a profit.

So my "Landlord" refuses to fix my home's missing sliding glass door, what can I do about it?

[Lichterschachtel]

So You Want to Be an American: 5 Circles of Immigration Hell | Cracked.com

Written by someone wanting to immigrate to America.

I don't like how people always categorize all illegal immigrants as people who do nothing other than live off of the government. It's impossible to stereotype an entire people like that. The illegal immigrants I know are all hard-working people, who want to have a better life for them and their family, but just aren't rich enough to be able to afford the whole process of getting a green card. Before it became illegal to pick illegal workers up off the road, there used to be uncountable amounts of workers during the 110° Arizona summers standing in front of stores looking for work. How is that lazy?

[Brutha]

The problem with the law is that it punishes the children for the actions of their parents.

If we can't prevent immigrants from crossing the border in an ethical manner, that's our fault, not theirs.

If someone violates a law than it's their fault and the state can punish them for violating the law.

When we all get our mandatory implanted chips someday, the scanners will identify us from a distance so ALL people will be scanned equally and those without government permission to be somewhere will be arrested. See how the One World Government and one single Supreme Dictator is going to solve all of our problems?

You don't need chips. You just need cameras and software.
I think London will have such a system within the next decade. They already have the cameras.
The rest is just software and a bit of processing power. Moore's law will go it's way.

[desertrat]

Many of the kids born to aliens are born on US soil and they are automaticly American , and the schools haft to take them . The parents can be deported but not the children if they were born here . K-12 education in the USA is free , I have herd in Mexico you haft to pay. I have herd the cameras and face req. software is good and has cought a few bad guys . Around here there is a camera in ever fast food resturant , and on a bunch of roads and hi ways . desert rat

[Lichterschachtel]

Originally Posted by desertrat

I have herd in Mexico you haft to pay

That doesn't mean it's true. Have you tried researching that?

[desertrat]

I was told that from some one from Mexico . I dont know any thing about there education system . I used the words "I have heard " desert rat

[Hern]

Illegal border crossing makes it harder for people to do it legaly. Illegal causes bad feelings with Americans. Justified or not. People from country X then have a harder time getting a visa. More border crossing then makes the situation worse. Then other countries are restricted as well due to limitations on how many can come. The U.S. allows more people to come work and live every year than all other countries in the world combined. I know Doctors here in the Philippines who have been on the waiting list for 15+ years. If people start behaving it will get better for all. Until then, break the law and pay the price. Otherwise it is like saying it's ok to sell crack because I'm poor. See how far that defense will get you.

[ar81]

People immigrate because there are no jobs.
Fortunately, jobs are now immigrating overseas too.
So migration problem should not be a problem.

[desertrat]

The big problem is that the US has a much higher standard of living than parts of latten America. If you are living some where have money or a good job you stay there. If it is your choice to stay and starve because you have no money and there is no work . You go to the part of the world where things are better. desert rat

[coollikeme]

Should not go to school in this country!! Every other country in the world does this, so why not USA!!!!

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by desertrat

The big problem is that the US has a much higher standard of living than parts of latten America. If you are living some where have money or a good job you stay there. If it is your choice to stay and starve because you have no money and there is no work . You go to the part of the world where things are better. desert rat

An alternative is to let people work in the US and still live in Mexico or whatever. They get a fat paycheck, compared to what they would have earned at home. They can also do the jobs that americans won't do. Polish people come to my country to pick strawberries and stuff. Efficient workers for 'us', and they get a nice paycheck. Everyone is happy.

[Hern]

Originally Posted by Elrond

An alternative is to let people work in the US and still live in Mexico or whatever. They get a fat paycheck, compared to what they would have earned at home. They can also do the jobs that americans won't do. Polish people come to my country to pick strawberries and stuff. Efficient workers for 'us', and they get a nice paycheck. Everyone is happy.

Because "most" still wont bother to do the paperwork. "Most" dont want to be taxed.