Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

frenchguy · 02-07-2010, 08:32 PM

"Same chances for all, but each according to his merits."

I believe in this principle that I think sould be the first in each society which wants to be fair.

rei · 02-08-2010, 01:52 AM

how can you have equal opportunities if you set conditions about merit?

how do we define merit? merit according to who and what? academic/intellectual merit or athletic merit or...?

do we provide access to equal footing for those who belong to groups that haven't had equal access and opportunity? do we wait to test the merits so everyone gets the same chances until after those groups have gained equal footing?

i think, in many ways, the U.S. already lives by this principle as you worded it - in theory anyway

Jaiysun4 · 02-09-2010, 11:35 AM

Are you being serious? America doesn't have equal opportunities at all. Equal opportunities for all would mean an equal economic level at birth, with equal level of teaching in all schools, with equal investment in all neighbourhoods. Equal opportunities for all would abolish inheritance from father to son, would abolish private education, and so on.

We would essentially be talking a socialist society, with standardized state education, standardized state accomodation, standardized everything for say the first 11 years of someone's life. Then allow inequalities to surface as people outperform others through hard work and genetic superiority.

frenchguy · 02-09-2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaiysun4

Are you being serious? America doesn't have equal opportunities at all. Equal opportunities for all would mean an equal economic level at birth, with equal level of teaching in all schools, with equal investment in all neighbourhoods. Equal opportunities for all would abolish inheritance from father to son, would abolish private education, and so on.

Any man, an employer for example should not consider your school, your parents' social class... but first who you are, what you accomplished and what you are able to do.

rei · 02-09-2010, 11:53 PM

Jaiysun, i said "in theory" and rolled my eyes.

in theory and on paper it's like that. in practice it's something else entirely.

Captain Drywall · 02-09-2010, 11:57 PM

i guess your saying " life isn't fair" . It's funny the less I have, the more i want to give.

ar81 · 02-15-2010, 09:24 PM

I have been making small experiments about alternate models of economy with no money.

Some time ago I started to involve a group of people so between us you will not see any money exchange. For example, if he needs a small program, I code it, if I need tech support I call one of them. So in the end we end up doing transactions with no money, exchanging help.

I realize that people do not show greed when you do that. If I invite them, later they will invite me, and the money paid is paid to the "outer world", not between us.

I realize that it requires honor and values, that replaces greed and indifference before other people in need. Indeed honor is most likely to appear because unlike money, you can't grab help with your hands or steal it. And the more you help, in the presence of a honorable group, the more help you are likely to receive.

This is where the concept of debt of honor comes. But it causes gratitude, not foreclosure.

02-07-2010, 08:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
frenchguy Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 32	a principle for a just society "Same chances for all, but each according to his merits." I believe in this principle that I think sould be the first in each society which wants to be fair.

02-09-2010, 11:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jaiysun4 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: uk Posts: 405	Are you being serious? America doesn't have equal opportunities at all. Equal opportunities for all would mean an equal economic level at birth, with equal level of teaching in all schools, with equal investment in all neighbourhoods. Equal opportunities for all would abolish inheritance from father to son, would abolish private education, and so on. We would essentially be talking a socialist society, with standardized state education, standardized state accomodation, standardized everything for say the first 11 years of someone's life. Then allow inequalities to surface as people outperform others through hard work and genetic superiority. Last edited by Jaiysun4; 02-09-2010 at 11:42 AM.

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02-08-2010, 01:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
rei Family Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: earth, everywhere and nowhere Posts: 9,713	how can you have equal opportunities if you set conditions about merit? how do we define merit? merit according to who and what? academic/intellectual merit or athletic merit or...? do we provide access to equal footing for those who belong to groups that haven't had equal access and opportunity? do we wait to test the merits so everyone gets the same chances until after those groups have gained equal footing? i think, in many ways, the U.S. already lives by this principle as you worded it - in theory anyway

02-09-2010, 11:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
rei Family Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: earth, everywhere and nowhere Posts: 9,713	Jaiysun, i said "in theory" and rolled my eyes. in theory and on paper it's like that. in practice it's something else entirely.

02-09-2010, 11:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
Captain Drywall Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: n. California, in fact the state capital Posts: 417	i guess your saying " life isn't fair" . It's funny the less I have, the more i want to give.

02-15-2010, 09:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
ar81 Family Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,756	I have been making small experiments about alternate models of economy with no money. Some time ago I started to involve a group of people so between us you will not see any money exchange. For example, if he needs a small program, I code it, if I need tech support I call one of them. So in the end we end up doing transactions with no money, exchanging help. I realize that people do not show greed when you do that. If I invite them, later they will invite me, and the money paid is paid to the "outer world", not between us. I realize that it requires honor and values, that replaces greed and indifference before other people in need. Indeed honor is most likely to appear because unlike money, you can't grab help with your hands or steal it. And the more you help, in the presence of a honorable group, the more help you are likely to receive. This is where the concept of debt of honor comes. But it causes gratitude, not foreclosure.

Personal Development for Smart PeopleTM Forums

Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums