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So some radical muslim group just attacked your major city, and thousands of people died. How do you respond? We've heard a lot about what should not be done; what is the right thing to do? |
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| First thing to do is ask 'why' its certainly not because 'they hate our freedoms'.
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After the 9/11 attack on U.S. soil, a war should have been waged against the terrorists that attacked the U.S. The U.S. should never have invaded Iraq. That war was started by warmongers and war profiteers and no good will ever come of it.
__________________ PRADA ANYONE? |
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| I agree, but again, I would say 90% of Americans still have no idea as to why Bin Laden attacked, and the president basically lied about the reasons - "they hate our freedoms" is almost insulting in its stupidity.
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They attacked the U.S. because they perceive the U.S. to be a warmonger and to foment wars for profit. So they thought they would give the U.S. a taste of their own medicine.
__________________ PRADA ANYONE? |
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| People did ask why. They were accused to giving aid and comfort to the enemy (the definition of treason, which is not something I think a lot of people know) for daring to say that maybe there was something that the United States could have done to prevent it other than preemptive strikes.
__________________ -- GBGames' Blog: An Indie Game Developer's Somewhat Interesting Thoughts Have a Facebook account? Play Sea Friends and protect real coral reefs while you do! |
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Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America' | Special reports | The Observer While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans: (Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you? Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you? As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple: (1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us. a) You attacked us in Palestine: (i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily. (ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this. When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them. (iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone. __________________________________________ I am not saying you have to agree - but the fact that it isn't even discussed points to something fundamentally wrong and deeply disturbing. Last edited by dor; 02-18-2007 at 08:23 PM. |
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George Bush and Dick Cheney and friends and corporate cronies have betrayed the American people. They are all laughing all the way to the bank and that's all they care about.
__________________ PRADA ANYONE? Last edited by ElizaJ; 02-19-2007 at 01:34 AM. |
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So part of me is trying to wake me up to something that I keep pushing out of my awareness and now it is so blatant I can no longer blow it off. I am now forced to see this part of self AND RESPOND to it. The initial response would be to support those that are effected in the city and put protection in place for other cities and targets. The next response would depend of what happens after the attack. What do I feel, what do I know now? What was hidden from my awareness that is now out in the open. Is there new information? What do the muslims say is the reason for their attack? Once that is known, action can be taken, starting with myself. |
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funny on wayne dyer's podcast he commented that the more attention we give terrorist the more power they get. I agree to some extent, but it's also important to realize that its a reaction to specfic policies and actions by the US. Until Americans come to grips with this we're not going to get anywhere. |
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People in America are just 1/5 of world population but they are spending more than 30 percent of complete world energy. There are so many hungry mouths around the globe but Americans don't want to lower their standards. They want to drive their cars and use cheap oil, have much more money than they really need. And trying to prove them that they are wrong would be fatal for me as a president .
__________________ Winners don't know that they are in the race. They just love running. For improving your fitness: http://www.gain-my-weight.com |
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Fast forward to 1990, when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. The Saudi royal family was very concerned that Hussein would invade Saudi Arabia. Osama Bin Laden (who by the way was born to a wealthy Saudi family) offered the royal family to provide protection from Hussein using his Mujahideen. They didn't take him very seriously and basically told him to take a hike. Now this is where it gets interesting. Wikipedia quote: Quote:
The terrorist attacks by Bin Laden ultimately come down to two fatal mistakes made by the US government. First was leaving Saddam Hussein in power after the first Gulf War. This should be clear to everyone right now considering that a second war was started anyway, during which Hussein was removed and eventually executed. The second major mistake was leaving a military presence in Saudi Arabia. This was probably not necessary even with Saddam in power, but certainly wouldn't have been necessary if he was removed from power during the first Gulf War. I think it's very likely that Bin Laden wouldn't have become a terrorist if US troops weren't left in Saudi Arabia for so long, even if they were put there temporarily to drive Saddam out of Kuwait. It's shocking how many mistakes the US government has made over the years by staging coups (ever wonder why Iran hates us so much?), supporting dictators (this particular link is ironically about US support for Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war, with a great photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking Hussein's hand), and interfering with other countries' governments in all kinds of ways. A lot of this history gets forgotten by the younger generations. Sadly, all our government tells us is that some bad guys decided to attack our country for no reason. Things are a lot more complex than that. Americans need to start learning history if they are to understand the current political world climate. Last edited by Baltar; 02-20-2007 at 04:37 AM. |
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1/5!!! Man, you're way off. We are only 300 million out of 6.5 billion. That's 1/20 of the world population. But that's not the reason we were attacked. It's because we wouldn't stop meddling in the conflict between the Jews and the Arabs in the Middle East. And, yes, we know we're pigs. Most people just don't care. That and it's very difficult to live in the US without being an energy hog. We just don't have the mass transit infrastructure to dump cars in most cities. (Although every city with mass transit has no problems with keeping the seats filled.) That and our cities are very far from each other. It's costly to transport goods between cities. I'm going to guess that you're European. I once had a German visit me where I live, in Michigan. Halfway through his stay, he announced that he was going to visit DisneyLand (in Florida) the next day. It took almost a half-hour for him to believe that it's a 36 hour bus ride from Michigan to Florida. New York is over 50 hours by car from Los Angeles. Contrast this to the distances between major European cities and you'll begin to see why we suck a lot more energy on moving things around. I will say, though, that we do eat too much. It's just too easy with meat being cheaper than vegetables (seriously). |
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Baltar: the first mistake was getting involved in 'passionate foriegn attachments' and forgeting that a country can 'only be trusted as far as their interests' -- as george washington warned us over 200 years ago. are you saying our support of israel has nothing to do with it and it's just PR? you know that even the 9-11 report said our support was a factor and one of the commisioners said that israel's lobby is so powerful they were able to get it played down (but not out) and you're also ignoring what jimmy carter has said, and the bi-partisian baker commission -that our lobsided support of israel is destablizing the region? And again, why do we support it? as for attacking iraq, so you're in support of the war? how old are you? young/old enough to serve? are you? and where and when did this become the purpose of the US goverment and US army? What is disturbing about Bush (though it really starts with TR, accelerates with FDR and Clinton and Johson were pretty bad) is that he is operating outside the constitution - he's just more or less doing what he wants, and carrying out agendas that are extra-constitution. Last edited by dor; 02-20-2007 at 04:23 AM. |
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Last edited by Baltar; 02-20-2007 at 04:31 AM. |
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How do we know "they" (Osama, muslims, whomever...) were the ones that orchastrated the 9/11 attacks and all the other "terrorist" events over the years? Check out www.infowars.com for a different perspective. Watch the movie TERRORSTORM and it will open your eyes and make you see things in a different light. All is not as it seems. Conspiracy theory......maybe.....we will never know though! But you can either be one of the sheeple with blinders on or an informed person....your choice.
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Everything is exactly as it is meant to be... If we are to embrace this in our lives, must'nt we embrace it for our countries, our wars, our politics To say we should have never gone into Iraq is probably an understatement, but we are there now, we have created total chaos. With the country the way it is right now I would probably support sending troops to stablize it at this point. That's where reality gets complicated, for me. In any case I also believe the first question asked after 9/11 should have been why did they do this. And of course 'they hate our freedoms' is an answer for a simpleton and someone with a limited understanding of human behavior, but isn't that exactly what George Bush is. Yea, a lot of companies are making a lot of money over war, but I don't necessarily think George Bush was lieing when he told the American public that they attacked us, because they hate out freedom. I think he actually believed this himself. I can still remember the day it happened and how uncomfortable I felt amongst all the brew ha ha, kick their ass, nuke em mentality, talk, and rah rah patriotism. I understood though that these people are operating under the parameters they think our correct, but it is really just a shame that they don't see things from a more human perspective. The problem isn't that George Bush brainwashed the ignorant masses, it is that George Bush is part of the brainswashed ignorant masses. This isn't Plato's Republic, the philosophers aren't kings. The people elect leaders that reflect their values, so what we get is mediocrity. |
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LRB | John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt : The Israel Lobby The Israel lobby debate In March the London Review of Books published John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt's essay 'The Israel Lobby'. The response to the article prompted the LRB to hold a debate under the heading 'The Israel lobby: does it have too much influence on American foreign policy?'. The New York Review of Books: The Storm over the Israel Lobby Not since Foreign Affairs magazine published Samuel Huntington's "The Clash of Civilizations?" in 1993 has an academic essay detonated with such force as "The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy," by professors John J. Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen M. Walt of Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government. Published in the March 23, 2006, issue of the London Review of Books and posted as a "working paper" on the Kennedy School's Web site, the report has been debated in the coffeehouses of Cairo and in the editorial offices of Haaretz. It's been called "smelly" (Christopher Hitchens), "nutty" (Max Boot), "conspiratorial" (the Anti-Defamation League), "oddly amateurish" (the Forward), and "brave" (Philip Weiss in The Nation). It's prompted intense speculation over why The New York Times has given it so little attention and why The Atlantic Monthly, which originally commissioned the essay, rejected it. Last edited by dor; 02-20-2007 at 01:06 PM. |
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Talk to the so-called enemies. Drop the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" line. It starts with talking. I'm from the north of Ireland where our war was ended when people finally decided to sit down and talk to eachother. I know this is the only way for a fact. FORCE BEGETS FORCE - It will never end. There might be a lull for a while but it will arise again. I know Jesus' recommendation to 'Love our enemies' is often easier said than done but it's the only way that brings lasting peace. Thanks Mark |
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Cheers, I wonder where the 'good old days' diplomacy has gone. In the 15th-19th century, when wars were fought, they usually lasted until the outcome was clear. After that, the losing side yielded and gave up a region, sometimes even receiving a fairly decent monetary compensation. After that, both sides were relatively happy - one for having won, the other for being spared. The occupation of Iraq was quite an opposite example to that. How could they ever think that the country could retain stability after all existing power structures had been destroyed, and after the leaders had been made into martyrs? A 'good old days' diplomat would, after invading Iraq, probably have confederationalized the system at the most, giving more power to existing regional leaders, divide et impera, letting Kurdistan to go officially its own way, even bribing Saddam into cooperation by retaining him as the ruler of Tikrit. That would have accomplished the main problem (eliminated the military threat and the suspected WMD). After that, the puppet government would have plenty of time to slowly introduce democratic-Western values into the system. Last edited by smallstar; 02-20-2007 at 02:03 PM. Reason: slip |
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not the first time it's happened and unfortunately, not the last. |
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Yeah, i took calculator and i see what percentage of 6.5 bilion is 300mil. American economy was born on car industry. Everything was build so megalomanic that will force people to buy more cars. Also it is a luxury for a kid in highschool or college to own a car. And in America that is normal. You can't change habbits of one society, especially when they are force no.1 in the world. We should combine socialism with capitalism (Swedish model). It is too cruel that some people(minority) are becoming richer while their neighbours are starving. Just a littlle more sensitivity can do miracles in America
__________________ Winners don't know that they are in the race. They just love running. For improving your fitness: http://www.gain-my-weight.com |
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When Al-quada (I hope I spelled it right) attacked america and succeded we found out just how dangerous they were. Bush made the right choice going after bin laden. However, Saddam Hussein showed few signs of danger and I personally didn't feel like my rights were threatened but Bush jumps head first in Iraq wasting our tax dollars on someone who wasn't a danger at all. WMDs were not found. Now is the time to set everything straight in Iraq and head home. We do this by setting a series of goals set within a certain time period and we don't leave until all the goals are reached. |
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__________________ www.*********************** or How I Learned to Stop Waiting for Investors and Start Building Companies |
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The solution to such a problem already exists. Marquis of Reprisal. A constitutional doctrine that authorizes targeting ONLY those directly responsible for the attack. You arrest or kill those responsible. |
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