The better side of US

[ar81]

We have discussed the bad news.
Today what we hear about US is just bad news too.
We have pointed out the contradictions of its politics and history.

But we also should point out the better side.

For me, the better side of US is American people.
There are great people there.

[openeyes]

There is a good deal of variety within the US, with it being such a large country, with people from so many different places and at various levels of affluence. There is also a great deal of convenience. 24 hour grocery stores with most any food I'd want to buy (except raw milk in most states), farmers' markets, Netflix, fast shipments from amazon.com, 300+million people who are apt to understand my English, cheap flights, lots of hiking trails and so on.

I live in an area with lots of highly educated people, low crime, plenty of things to do, fast internet, and most everything I need within easy walking/bicycling distance. While there are plenty of other worthwhile places, if you have good health insurance, savings, a good neighborhood, and net at least 30 grand per year, the United States can be a pretty nice place to live.

[garentee]

You can live extremely well for a LOT less than 30k per year....

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by garentee

You can live extremely well for a LOT less than 30k per year....

Agreed. My annual expenses are closer to 12k, but I prefer to make a good bit more than that, particularly if/when I want a family.

[IFeelGood]

Not where I'm from... 30k per year in NYC is like being homeless

[rei]

americans really jump at the chance to help out when there is some kind of disaster. we often jump at the chance to help anyway (without disaster, and uninvited), but that stems from an arrogance that other parts of the world find distasteful.

back to the positive... it amazes me how many people want to send money or offer to help clear debris/rebuild/etc. in the wake of disaster, especially weather-related disasters. it is really moving, and then it makes me sad when i think about how it takes some tragedy or disaster to bring out that side of people. of course, it's not always like that.

american life is largely comfortable. even the poorest individuals in america have it much better than the poor in many parts of the world. some areas of the u.s. are incredibly tolerant, cultured and accepting.

[Jaiysun4]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

Not where I'm from... 30k per year in NYC is like being homeless

Blimey, does 30K only buy you a few sheets of carboard and 1 meal a day? NYC must be REALLY expensive! What are those homeless people complaining about, some people only have 30K a year!

[ar81]

Originally Posted by rei

americans really jump at the chance to help out when there is some kind of disaster. we often jump at the chance to help anyway (without disaster, and uninvited), but that stems from an arrogance that other parts of the world find distasteful.

I disagree. The problem is not international aid. I do not see it as arrogance at all, unless it is expressed as military intervention against the will of people.

The problem is:
-Aid comes as supplies or money, not as investment to create jobs, so worsened poverty remains worse.
-Supplies are usually stolen by politicians, so many victims rarely see any help.
Of course, this is not a problem of Americans, but a problem of corruption in such countries.

I recall a hurricane which hit eastern coast of Nicaragua. International aid came as supplies and they went straight to the supermarket of the 9 Sandinista commanders, with a price tag. Victims saw no help at all.
And they called themselves "socialists".

[vartann]

Originally Posted by rei

americans really jump at the chance to help out when there is some kind of disaster. we often jump at the chance to help anyway (without disaster, and uninvited), but that stems from an arrogance that other parts of the world find distasteful.

like the "Monroe Doctrine" and ""Plan Marshall" countless offsprings for instance ??.

[rei]

Originally Posted by ar81

I disagree. The problem is not international aid. I do not see it as arrogance at all, unless it is expressed as military intervention against the will of people.

The problem is:
-Aid comes as supplies or money, not as investment to create jobs, so worsened poverty remains worse.
-Supplies are usually stolen by politicians, so many victims rarely see any help.
Of course, this is not a problem of Americans, but a problem of corruption in such countries.

I recall a hurricane which hit eastern coast of Nicaragua. International aid came as supplies and they went straight to the supermarket of the 9 Sandinista commanders, with a price tag. Victims saw no help at all.
And they called themselves "socialists".

as you said, those were the choices made by the ones with 'official' power in those places. at least you can see that is not the fault of the people who sent the aid with the intention of helping.

this was started as a thread for the better side, but there's much less-better energy in this thread. pointing out problems instead of sources for gratitude. gotta love those neuronal pathways huh?

[ar81]

Originally Posted by rei

as you said, those were the choices made by the ones with 'official' power in those places. at least you can see that is not the fault of the people who sent the aid with the intention of helping.

this was started as a thread for the better side, but there's much less-better energy in this thread. pointing out problems instead of sources for gratitude. gotta love those neuronal pathways huh?

One curious thing I have noticed is that most of people from around the world are just plain good people. Americans are not an exception, and that's why YOU are friends. Everyone may have some slight cultural diffrences, but in general terms people are good.

Of course, in every country there are rotten apples, so you see barbaric things in every country.

And the most interesting things is how politicians seem to be the ones who have disrupted normal life of people during centuries. Those are agents of mental illness. Wars are a waste. Could you imagine that suddenly our countries entered war because some idiots in politics do not get along? I would not feel comfortable with a weapon my hands knowing that you'd be in the other side.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by garentee

You can live extremely well for a LOT less than 30k per year....

Until you need health insurance / medical care.

[ar81]

Astronuauts from STS-129 mission are quite ahead of time.
You may watch live NASA TV here
NASA - NASA TV

It tells me that if the fate of US relied on normal people in US, US would be a developed country. If politics and bankers had not screwed it up, US would be a country that would be ahead.

What astronauts do reflects a matter of culture, not only up there, but down here as those are very big projects that involve many people.

I feel American have a lot to make them feel proud. The only obstacle for that was a bunch of elite players who hijacked the game of money.

[vartann]

at age 19 i happened to be in the US for a few months

- narrow escape from being shot down and gutted more than a couple times (city guys and rednecks too )
- helped out by Black men , sheltered by an Irish, saved by a Chicano

America, Land of contrasts...
like China...
like most ANYWHERE in the world

i don t like T Hanks (the actor i mean) nor the sissy values he stand up for, still his "Life-is-like-a-chocolate-box" analogy makes a point...

... 'better choose the "Riederer" brand rather than the "e.d." one, the odds for a fine cocoa shall be better

[Froztwolf]

People complain about the politicians, the bankers, the military-industrial complex etc. but imagine if those things weren't there.

Imagine for instance if there were no banks or financial institutions. Getting loans would be nigh-impossible even at the best of times and forget about online payments or debit/creditcards.

We call the US a police state but imagine if there was no police. Crime gangs would rule the land at gunpoint and you'd see violence like nothing you've ever seen.

No I'm happy we have all these institutions, corrupt as they are. We just need a few hundred/thousand more years to perfect them.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by Froztwolf

Imagine for instance if there were no banks or financial institutions. Getting loans would be nigh-impossible even at the best of times and forget about online payments or debit/creditcards.

With no banks you may need to rely on savings, not loans.
Or other people may lend you money without interests, and those people may need to rely on your honor so you return that money.

[Froztwolf]

Originally Posted by ar81

With no banks you may need to rely on savings, not loans.
Or other people may lend you money without interests, and those people may need to rely on your honor so you return that money.

Savings are fine for individuals but if you want to start a venture you will often require more capital than you could personally set aside.

People have loaned money without interest before. Throughout history this has been more common than lending with interest. In fact making your living off interest was called "usury" and found to be quite disgusting.
Loans were pretty hard to get even for aristocrats during those times and impossible for "normal" people.

[escapee]

And the most interesting things is how politicians seem to be the ones who have disrupted normal life of people during centuries.......

"A petty thief is put in jail. A great brigand becomes a ruler of a State." Chuang-tzu (4th century BCE).


Now read this

Arming Goldman With Pistols Against Public: Alice Schroeder - Bloomberg.com

“I just wrote my first reference for a gun permit,” said a friend, who told me of swearing to the good character of a Goldman Sachs Group Inc. banker who applied to the local police for a permit to buy a pistol. The banker had told this friend of mine that senior Goldman people have loaded up on firearms and are now equipped to defend themselves if there is a populist uprising against the bank.

[Brutha]

as you said, those were the choices made by the ones with 'official' power in those places. at least you can see that is not the fault of the people who sent the aid with the intention of helping.

Most US citizens think that their government gives more than ten times the amount of money in foreign aid than it really does.
US foreign aid is lower as a share of GDP than it is is many European nations.

[cacheborn]

Not sure what is the main point under discussion. I suppose you will find all kinds of people in every country, maybe there are differences due to culture.

[ar81]

I am starting to believe that those who are causing problems to the world in USA are very few. Or perhaps the extent of goodness of people there is enough to outshine negativity.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by funchy

Until you need health insurance / medical care.

True, although many full time careers that pay 30k/year (and more) also include health insurance in their benefits. But if you had to pay out of pocket for health insurance and only made 30k a year, then things could be tighter...