| |||||||
| World Affairs Politics, government, leadership, elections, global issues, environmental issues, economics, domestic policy, foreign policy, social change, human rights, civil liberty, healthcare, education, news, history, space exploration |
|
Welcome to the Personal Development for Smart People Forums, the place for lively, intelligent discussion of all personal growth issues -- physical, mental, financial, social, emotional, spiritual, and more. You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining our free community, you'll be able to post your own messages, access many members-only features, see the new messages posted since your last visit, and of course remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please join today. If you arrived here from a search engine, you may want to explore the main site first, which includes hundreds of deep and insightful articles on a variety of personal development topics. |
 |
| | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
11-03-2009, 10:07 AM
| #2 (permalink) |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,072
 | 
It's a pretty general statement. In some aspects yes, at a more practical level you'd need some consensus (simple example, you stop at red lights, etc) However, at an individual level I don't think so. To keep the society running well you need someone who will bring about changes, thus not conform to the established rules all the time. Then again if you don't conform in one aspect it doesn't mean you won't in others as well.
__________________ You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf  Do or do not. There is no try. |
|      |
|
11-03-2009, 10:47 AM
| #3 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 449
|
If noone ever questioned or challenged the norm, nothing would ever change, and change is what allows for progression. I suppose conformists need non-conformists as much as non-conformist need people to challenge.
|
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 02:03 PM
| #4 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 550
| Quote:
__________________ Random thoughts from Some Random Guy | |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 02:03 PM
| #5 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,912
|
Society works if there is a mutually benefical social contract. So it is not a matter of submitting and obey. It is a matter of working together and get equal compensation for equal amount work. The benefit of working together and the values of common welfare should prevail, if it is going to work. Our society has been creating rules to disrupt that contract. Conformity can't exist when some groups do not produce anything and get tons of benefit (banks for example) or when some people work hard and get low wages while others work not so hard and get millions in return. This inequality is curious. While people seek equality in aspects like gay matters, in economic terms there is no equality. Why should a worker get more money than other for the same amount of hours of work? Supply and demand? Then there is a problem there. There is a high demand of food from starved people, and they do not have money (economy is not the allocation of resources, because resources are not where they should be). There are people willing to work and they get no jobs. If it is about supply and demand, Americans will run out of work because they are too expensive, or they might have to pass through a tough inflation, until Chinese and Americans have the same salary. Nowadays the relationship is 15 to 1.
__________________ Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me. Last edited by ar81; 11-03-2009 at 02:10 PM. |
| |
|
11-03-2009, 02:08 PM
| #6 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 863
| Quote:
__________________ "We're here for a good time, we're not here for a long time." - Colin Mcrae “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” - Jiddu Krishnamurti | |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 08:08 PM
| #7 (permalink) |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 967
|
Criminals who don't conform need to be made to conform, too. Or else they should be removed from the presence of the good people who do conform, and locked away out of sight. Otherwise people could just do whatever they wanted to do, you know? I mean, do criminals who don't conform really deserve to participate in society? Do they really deserve to be free and decide what to do with their own lives? No. Freedom is a privilege granted by society, and it can be taken away by society. |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 10:04 PM
| #8 (permalink) | |
| Member  Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 40
| Quote:
I'm not going to not do things for the sake of it, but anything that has sparked amazing change in the past hasn't been the norm. Perhaps if you were sitting naked in a cave without fire your argument would have more weight. You live your life with the tools and ideals of nonconformists and then complain that they exist.
__________________ Read this: 33 Rules of Persistence: How To Stick With It, Be Patient and Achieve Your Goals | |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 10:14 PM
| #9 (permalink) |
| Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 4,993
|
It about balance. Keep an open mind, but it shouldn't be so open that your brain falls out.
__________________ I am always open for feedback on my posts. If your feedback would go offtopic feel free to send me a Personal Message. My posts generally don't contain medical or legal advice, if you have a problem seek the opinion of an expert Talking about this in terms of “bad news” or “bad judgment by business leaders” seems archaic. It’s like describing World War One as “a serious diplomatic concern.” Bruce Sterling about the financial crisis. |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 10:43 PM
| #10 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 967
| Quote:
| |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 10:55 PM
| #11 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 449
|
Do you really believe that justice is always served? Maybe to PREVENT having to lock all these people up, we might want to start looking at the way we as a society raise our children, and the messages we implant in them. So, if a father beats his child every day for his entire childhood and tells him he'll never amount to anything, well that's probably what will happen. The kid will grow up and, thinking he's 'bad'based on how his father has treated him, will go about proving it to the rest of the world "You all think I'm bad...I'll show you bad, cop this." Parents need to stop passing on their patterns of abusive behaviour, and start valuing their children, and themselves a bit more so they don't create these "monsters" in the first place. Locking them away isn't the solution...it's just a temporary fix that keeps all the "decent" people in society safe from harm. The solution is NOT creating them in the first place...and that starts at home. The first 5 years in fact...but all the years in between as well. Children are precious, they deserve better...and every child has the potential to make something great of themselves...IF they are given the right nurturing environment to start with. It doesn't help for these criminal types to go about blaming their parents or society...but really they are the ones who made them that way! These people in the prison system need to begin looking at transcending their past and doing what they can to create a better life for themselves...and this will have a ripple effect in society...then prisons wouldn't even be necessary! |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:06 PM
| #12 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 967
|
Do you really think it's OK for people to just decide for themselves what's right and wrong? Ooh, it just irks me when people don't do what they're supposed to do. Thank God that's what we have police for, to stop people who do what they're not supposed to do. You know? |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:10 PM
| #13 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,271
 | Quote:
That's what we do individually too. We decide what is right or wrong. If our "rights" conflict too much with society's "rights", then we may end up in jail or killed. | |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:12 PM
| #14 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 967
| Quote:
| |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:20 PM
| #16 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 967
|
Yeah, those ishing rebels. That's what I'm talking about. They don't conform, and then society has to make them conform. Or else throw them in jail. Otherwise, there will be people running around who LOOK like they're civilized people, participating the way they're supposed to in society; but really, they're not. They're just doing whatever they want to do, whether it's OK with society or not.  |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:24 PM
| #17 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,271
|
I'm not sure what you mean. If someone is following the laws and not hurting anyone, then why do we care if they're doing it whether it's OK with society or not? If they're following the laws, then society is OK with it. Our laws don't care about good intentions. |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:29 PM
| #19 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,271
|
I agree we have to do something with them, depending on the crime. It doesn't really matter much if some teenager "steals" some music by downloading it, but it matters a lot if some guy is running around murdering people. Jail is our current solution, although I'm sure it's not the ideal solution. You're not being sarcastic, are you? When someone says something like...Quote:
| |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:34 PM
| #21 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 449
|
It sounds like you are a real stickler for the rules Plays with Life! Are you in some way jealous that these "rebels" decided to do what they want when you don't get to? There are loads of people who take drugs to have fun. They are breaking the rules, but they aren't hurting anyone else, usually, except their bodies, and their bodies still go on working dutifully for them...then there are people who take alcohol, which is socially acceptable and not illegal, and violent behaviour can ensue...but they aren't breaking any rules, so that's o.k then! I personally will cross the street before the little red man tells me to because guess what, I can actually use my eyes and ears to tell if a car is coming or not...  Did you read my previous post? It seems like you have this attitude that it's all so easy, why can't everyone just follow along with it. It's not, I'm trying to point out the complexities of people and society that lead to this behaviour in the first place, and that make it not work the way you think it just should. |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:35 PM
| #22 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,271
|
I'm personally not strictly against the death penalty, but that's a touchy issue. If we don't kill dangerous people, I'm fine with locking them in jail until they die a natural death. But this isn't the best solution. Jails are horrible. We need a caring place to send these people to, where they can learn how to successfully and happily fit into society. That would be ideal. It might be expensive, but I think it'd be worth it. Jails are already expensive. But what to do about the people who insist on breaking the laws? What to do with those who hate peace? Well, that's a good question. I personally don't mind if these people are killed. They practically asked for it, in the same way a naughty forum member practically asks to be banned. I can only hit you with a hammer so many times before I will be hit myself. How foolish of me it would be to cry out, "Hey what the hell man! Don't hit me with a hammer!" Maybe that sounds heartless to some people, but I think it's heartless to let a dangerous person continue to hurt innocents. It's the classic Superman dilemma, where Clark Kent hates the idea of having to kill anyone, even bad guys. Last edited by Daffy Duck; 11-03-2009 at 11:39 PM. |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:41 PM
| #24 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 449
|
That's what I'm getting at here. Jails only breed an even bigger hatred for society, also, which most people don't consider...we are locking them up with other criminals...and they TALK. So after a persons sentence has finished...they come out into society, hating it even more, only now they have had more of an education inside on how to do their chosen crime better, so they don't get caught. We send them to criminal school, in effect, and for them to make contacts and friends. We pay for their bedding and their food and their education...how ironic is that! I don't know the solution to this either...except what I said previously...to prevent it in the first time by being more conscious parents who don't inflict our own patterns of abuse onto our children and create criminals to start with. |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:41 PM
| #25 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 967
| Quote:
As for drugs, they're illegal for a reason. The people who make the laws tell us drugs are bad - and who are we to question them? They know what they're talking about. | |
|
| |
|
11-03-2009, 11:51 PM
| #28 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 449
|
How do you know that they know what they are talking about...if you've never questioned them, then you are just blindly believing what you've been told! Also, in my post that is not what I was getting at when I said we need to care for our children more...and it shows me that not only did you not interpret it correctly, but that you have a limited understanding of the psychology of children and how they operate. What I am saying is that if we treat our children with respect and nurture their minds and believe in them, instead of ABUSING them, then they will have more self-esteem as children, and so will more likely grow into adults with high self-esteem also. It's not about drumming the need to OBEY into the,. I personally don't think that's totally healthy either. A child needs to be able to think for themselves. What you are saying is the antithesis of that...you just think it's o.k to have a society of mindless drones who just go along with whatever they are told because the government knows best! That's more dangerous in my view, than it is to break a few rules! Rules are made by control freaks. Perhaps if we encouraged the use of common sense in individuals everyone would think for themselves and you wouldn't need a group of people in charge to make the rules, because people would already know that one action may be harmful to someone else, and they wouldn't do it...because there would be mutual respect. That's what is lacking these days. |
|
| |
|
11-04-2009, 12:17 AM
| #29 (permalink) | ||
| Member Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 40
| Quote:
After I read this post: Quote:
__________________ Read this: 33 Rules of Persistence: How To Stick With It, Be Patient and Achieve Your Goals | ||
|
| |
|
11-04-2009, 12:22 AM
| #30 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 967
| Quote:
You're welcome. I have met people who seem to think like this; and it makes me want to freak out too.  | |
|
| |
|
| Bookmarks |
« Previous Thread
|
Next Thread »
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
Linear Mode
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:55 AM.