Conspiracy Theories on this forum

[themaster]

Originally Posted by blossom

Maybe alot of CT's go over the top, and get overzealous...when they think about stuff, and it all seems real to them, they want to share it with the world to wake everyone up...so people can start living a life that is less oppressed. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Anytime a message needs to be spread.. it's usually out of fear and miss-understanding..

You could say hey "themaster" why do you spread information?

And I would answer this way..
1. I believe by spreading information I am helping myself
2. I believe by helping others in my reality I am also helping myself

Do I care if you act on it?

Absolutely, not.. you are all free to choose for you..

But many people on the planet do not spread information that way.. in fact what they do is take issues they have with themselves that they can't work out.. and tap a random stranger on the shoulder and say.. "hey listen, I know this isn't your problem.. but guess what now it is " "Cause if you don't do something it will become your problem.. so help me with this action committee, help me create resolution prop 432b etc." "Let's all sit on the couch and smoke pot.. and think of ourselves as worthless, powerless"

This is how the human race has managed to throw all their problems all over each other.. that's how 9/11 became my problem or taxes without representation etc. most of us our out there "slinging mud" and that mud is sticking to some people.. and some smart people are missing those mud pies

So no, I don't think anyone wishing to share information about conspiracy theories is really in most cases doing a good thing for themselves or their fellow man.. there just out there slinging mud because they don't want to figure out their own problem/truth with it..

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by blossom

Spirit: You could be right. I know that my own brother is very heavily into CT's and he smokes alot of pot, and I can see that he has issues that he is not dealing with and all the pot and CT's is a way for him to feel like he knows what's going on in the world...but he is so emotionally immature and scared really that he isn't putting his energy where it would be the best for him...but then, what do I know...I'm just his older sister who spends too much time doing silly stuff like working on my emotional growth and development instead of escaping reality!

That's a great example of why CT's can be in the way of what you really want. I´ve talked to some CT people, read some of the CT sites. What comes up for me is they are angry, frustrated, scared and feeling powerless. There´s also a lack of logic in their thinking. A kind of ´holy insanity´ so to speak.

One guy I know was very sane about most practical things, had a flourishing business, was very down to earth, cool guy to have a beer with and watch the ladies go by. But he had this paranoia about ´big government´ that I just could not understand logically. Totally off the wall on that. Kind of fascinating to watch him go in and out of insanity (his behaviour also changed depending whether he was in paranoia mood).

So no, I don't think anyone wishing to share information about conspiracy theories is really in most cases doing a good thing for themselves or their fellow man.. there just out there slinging mud because they don't want to figure out their own problem/truth with it..

I agree with themaster on this one.

[blossom]

Fair enough then.

I just need to say that what themaster said about his motivations for sharing information with others...that he sees it as helpful to himself and others, is pretty much the same for people who feel like it's their job to wake people up, i.e CT's...just like Steve Pavlina calls himself the human alarm clock, and does what he can to wake people up...CT's think they are helping people too, and they also realise that most people don't want to listen...which MAKES them angry and frustrated, the same way that anyone who has something to say does when noone listens, because what they see seems so much closer to the truth than what we are all being fed, of course they're angry and frustrated...at all the INJUSTICE and apathy and LIES that plague this world, that most people don't even WANT to think about, let alone give a damn. All they want are the latest football results and dinner on the table at 6pm, curled up in their little cocoons of comfort and 'security' that their government is watching out for them...living in illusion and living a lie! But it's their choice obviously.

At least CT's are PASSIONATE about seeking the truth and are unwilling to just accept being lied to unlike the majority who diss them!

And also, they all question their sanity as much as you do...they know it makes no logical sense to others...but they still see it that way, and the fact that there are others who also see it, confirms it in their minds...the way you all agree with each other, and validate the others oppinion and therefore make your oppinions 'right' in your own eyes, it's called ' Consensus Reality'...they see YOU all as the insane ones for NOT wanting to see what they so clearly do...so the real question is...who's really 'right'?

I'm not really sure why I feel like I need to defend some of them...I used to be one...but now, not so much. I saw the potential there for driving myself crazy trying to get other people to realize stuff that they didn't want to look at or think for themselves about...plus, funnily enough, the desire to be in that mindset left me once I stopped smoking pot...the two definately go hand in hand! I still think it's important that more people start learning how to think for themselves instead of blindly slurping up everything they are told without question though...that won't change...but it's not the popular stand of course.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by blossom

At least CT's are PASSIONATE about seeking the truth and are unwilling to just accept being lied to unlike the majority who diss them!

The end of the world is nigh, we must tell everybody about this to prevent it from happening!!! LOL

It's kind of interesting, but I lose interest in CTs when it starts getting depressing

[blossom]

I'm trying to point out positives about them, where everyone else can only see negs!

Most people do lose interest in it when it starts getting depressing because noone wants to be depressed...that's normal! People need lies to get by in life I guess...

I read an interesting line in a book by my favourite author Tom Robbins, which is like a mantra for me...it goes: "The cheerful dumb are not so much happy as they are in denial, and the gloomy smart are just as ridiculous!"

Everyone's silly in their own way!

[Beuford]

I like conspiracies though

As long as the poster shows evidence, I think it is worthy of a discussion. If you do not want to participate, then that's fine too. Now what if this actually happened, and conspiracy theory discussions were banned from this forum? What if conspiracy theory discussion was banned in the US? While I completely understand your reason for not liking conspiracy theorists, I feel they are just sharing their own opinion on what they've seen. And if you feel you have the ability to show them that they are wrong by using evidence, not by telling them conspiracy theories in general are rubbish, then welcome to the discussion.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by blossom

I'm trying to point out positives about them, where everyone else can only see negs!

Good point, actually it's really interesting, until it gets depressing...

but the thing is, 1/ if it's going to happen then it's only like 1.5 years til everything ****s up.. and 2/ the informations already there for anyone who cares.. so you don't really need to preach it..

I actually talked to one of the coolest and nicest people I know today who's a conspiracy theorist.

[themaster]

More than 1 member of my family are CT's.. 2 actually.. and so this topic I feel I have some personal experience with.. neither do pot.. anytime they bring up there conspiracy's the only message I have for them is

"that doesn't concern me"
and then sometimes they say "yes it does"
and I say "well if it does so what?"

I think one thing you should do blossom is seriously look at some of your statements.. you have some judgments about people out there being sheep and caught in traps and I have tried to help you see this.. (you also had very valid positive points.. you did prove to me that CT's can be seen in a positive or neutral light based on your statements) no one is caught in a trap and no one is just letting the government take their power.. they choose to give that power to the government.. and one day they will choose to take it back and if you're throwing any kind of information out there, that is in a negative way very few will latch on to it.. and it's as I said I won't say 100% that CT's messages are negative or from lack but it seems like most are

[rei]

i used to be a little bit into CT, but not so much trying to convert people. now a lot of it has a very alarmist tone, yes in their minds they may need to sound frantic so others pay attention, but it usually has the opposite effect - people see how worked up they are and make a judgment call (i.e. that person is just a bit crazy, etc.).

i agree with those who've said if you don't like those threads, you don't have to read them. this forum is not big on censorship.

i think one reason CTs get into it is because of a focus on truth. to them it isn't about fear or lack, it's about lying. conspiracies involve (typically) more than one person who either plan a deceitful thing from the beginning or plan, in a deceitful way, to 'cover it up.' so the CT is about exposing the lie.

but the CT does make several assumptions. the CT assumes others want to know about the lie, they want to be more conscious, etc. but those others have free will too. they can choose to listen or ignore. they act on their personal power when they make this choice, oddly many CTs think the audience for their 'message' is powerless when that isn't true. the so-called sheeple (i don't like that term *at all*) choose to give their power to this or that, and they use that power to decide whether or not to listen. everyone on this planet is on the best path for them, if they aren't awake they may or may not have a purpose involving conscious living. sometimes it is a shock to wake them, sometimes it is a gentle unfolding of experience. most of us don't know when or how a person is meant to wake up, if they are, and if they have decided to sleep on their feet, they will usually not be at all receptive to the CT. but that's their choice. if they don't want to listen, CTs can simply honor their free will instead of getting even more hysterical in the delivery of the message.

believe it or not, i've met a couple of very rational conspiracy theorists. many of them are alarmist but not all of them.

@brendan: you think 2012 is bringing massive problems? i think and know the experience signified by that date is bringing massive solutions.

[funchy]

The conspiracy theories in its own forum is a good idea. I am not really interested in them, and I don't find them very constructive. If there is any merit to the theory, go find proof.

Yes, we're in an economic downturn (fact). But no, bigfoot, space aliens, the Illuminati, Gaia, or Obama's evil twin isn't causing it (opinion).

I come here for interesting discussion. If I wanted to hear crazy theories, I'd go turn on Fox news.

[rei]

Originally Posted by funchy

The conspiracy theories in its own forum is a good idea. I am not really interested in them, and I don't find them very constructive. If there is any merit to the theory, go find proof.

Yes, we're in an economic downturn (fact). But no, bigfoot, space aliens, the Illuminati, Gaia, or Obama's evil twin isn't causing it (opinion).

I come here for interesting discussion. If I wanted to hear crazy theories, I'd go turn on Fox news.

ok then the obvious issue is the classification. many people who believe a conspiracy theory don't call it that, they just say the truth about the moon landing or the the truth about 9/11 (i really do recommend that all americans check into that... very good, physics-law evidence that it was a controlled demolition).

so the point is that people would still post in other subforums, not thinking the specific topic is really a conspiracy theory. and really it's much easier to simply not read the threads you don't have an interest in.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by blossom

...
At least CT's are PASSIONATE about seeking the truth and are unwilling to just accept being lied to unlike the majority who diss them!
...

Disagree. They are passionate to find confirmation of what they believe, to the point of ignoring logic. Just one example: some believe the moon landings were fake. Ask them why they would be fake, i.e. why would the goold old USA fake it, and why wouldn't e.g. the then USSR challenge that fake? Usually you'll get an open-mouthed stare

They are also passionate about convincing others to their point of view. Like TV evangelists. They're not really interested in finding the truth.

[blossom]

I agree that alot of them are more interested in convincing people that they are 'right'and that is an ego thing...granted, but then that goes for alot of non-conspiracy theorists as well, infact most people like to be 'right'in their own mind about just about everything...and will try and convince others of something they don't agree with them on...it's called human! You are lumping them all into one category and generalizing. There are all different types out there, and some of them are TRULY caring about humanity and wanting to create a loving compassionate society free from Truth decay!

And I did mention earlier that they can get somewhat overzealous, and to be honest I've met some pretty insane people in my time who were CT's, but who were colourful characters nonetheless, and alot more interesting than 'normal' people who are more concerned with the latest footie results and watching t.v game shows... but the ones who aren't just potheads, are truly interested in exposing the lies that they can't help but notice everyone else ignoring.

And also, there usually IS some kind of logic involved...it just takes a bit of digging to work it out...again, which most people aren't willing to do! The landing on the moon 'fake' thing might have been the american govts. attempt to bolster it's public image in the eyes of the world at the time..."Look what we have done that noone else did before us"it wouldn't be the first time the U.S has asserted their "We're the Best" attitude on the rest of the world!

[blossom]

themaster: Firstly, I didn't actually ASK for any help from you, no offense! I'm stating my thoughts and feelings towards CT's and their motivations. You may want to check your own judgements there, and your use of the word "should" while you are at it!

secondly, if you have read any of my comments carefully, I have always maintained that people GIVE their power away to govts. That is the aim of the true CT's , to raise public awareness so that people will start thinking for themselves and take their power back.
It doesn't seem like you are reading my comments all that carefully, as you keep misunderstanding what I am saying. And I'm sorry, but there ARE a hell of a lot of people out there who are gullible and willing to believe anything the govt tells them, and in this way they are allowing themselves to be controlled whether you want to admit it or not...or choose to accept that into your chosen reality script. There's YOUR reality, and then there's REALITY! Of course reality can be changed, and this is what alot of people are working towards...a better world, right!

Brendannz: I agree, there's no need to preach it...and CT's get a sense of urgency and even life purpose from feeling like it's their 'mission' in life...so it can come off as a bit much to the reciever, I understand that. Also, if it is true that there is only a limited time left...all the more reason to make the most of it and enjoy life while it's here, don't you agree?

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by blossom

...
The landing on the moon 'fake' thing might have been the american govts. attempt to bolster it's public image in the eyes of the world at the time..."Look what we have done that noone else did before us"it wouldn't be the first time the U.S has asserted their "We're the Best" attitude on the rest of the world!

Though it may be possible, it is highly improbable. It would have been quite stupid to think no one would find out about such a fake.

This is exactly what I meant by CTs ignoring logic.

I won't say CTs are all the same (they aren't) but I think I've had enough experience with them to stick to my opinion for the time being.

[rei]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Though it may be possible, it is highly improbable. It would have been quite stupid to think no one would find out about such a fake.

This is exactly what I meant by CTs ignoring logic.

I won't say CTs are all the same (they aren't) but I think I've had enough experience with them to stick to my opinion for the time being.

i am not old enough to remember the lunar landing, and what i'm about to say could be totally wrong. but, in my understanding, in the period when the lunar landing occurred, americans were not nearly as suspicious of the gov't. they still largely thought the gov't. was working for their best interests, so it was not really illogical to simply accept the lunar landing as truth. and people were not as quick to look for falsity then in american culture - the hippie movement did encourage more critical thinking, but before? take a look at the film "Reefer Madness" to get an idea of how easily propaganda flourished prior to 1960s america: Reefer Madness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. also the telecommunications methods were not as clear, which lends itself plausibly to staging something and other parties would have more trouble sorting out the truth or falseness of the event.

i'm not necessarily saying i think the lunar landing was fake, merely pointing out a potential line of logic.

[blossom]

I'm not saying the lunar landing was fake either...I don't really know either way! I like to question everything, and that includes CT's!

[themaster]

Originally Posted by blossom

themaster: Firstly, I didn't actually ASK for any help from you, no offense! I'm stating my thoughts and feelings towards CT's and their motivations. You may want to check your own judgements there, and your use of the word "should" while you are at it!

I had a look but I didn't see anything.. I was only trying to help and since this is not helping, I've said my peace.. CT's you've won this day!! But I'll be back tomorrow with robots from the future bent on enslavement

[blossom]

We are the robots...and slavery is already upon us

[blossom]

Spirit: They might very well have assumed noone would find out since they are fairly confident noone is looking into it or even suspecting they are lying, and they think we are all stupid...that's what good brainwashing and propoganda is all about! There's logic there...you just aren't seeing it!

[rei]

Originally Posted by blossom

We are the robots...and slavery is already upon us

speak for yourself dear.
i reject your reality and substitute my own... never really been mainstream as far as i remember. and maybe it's a judgment on my part, but i find much of the robotic stuff happening in the mainstream, motivated by fear/survival instincts. i imagine that sense of limitation would be exhausting...

blossom, i am very curious, and i imagine others may be as well... you seem very passionate about and dedicated to sticking up for CTs and dispelling any misunderstanding. what is motivating that intensity you're working from, if you're willing to share it? is it like loyalty to your brother, loyalty to your past self, or something else?

[blossom]

Quite possibly rei. I'm curious about it myself...I've been doing alot of work on changes, and it's quite possible I am still holding on to this part of myself out of fear? As for my brother, I don't think I'm defending him, since I admitted that he has gone off the rails with pot and what not. I have moved towards a healthier way of living in recent years and don't surround myself with those people anymore, so it's quite possible I am clinging to what is familiar to me, as I have been in other areas of my life.

Thanks for asking

Also, by "We"I was referring to the millions of people who AREN'T interested in creating change, but who are liking the status quo! That's what's mainstream I think! I'm not asking you to, or expecting you to accept my reality at all...infact, as you may recall, I was right there with you in your vision for a new world.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by blossom

Spirit: They might very well have assumed noone would find out since they are fairly confident noone is looking into it or even suspecting they are lying, and they think we are all stupid...that's what good brainwashing and propoganda is all about! There's logic there...you just aren't seeing it!

I do see very well what you mean, but I think it's improbable and therefore do not agree.

Try this for logic: what would be the value of faking a moon landing? Some temporary positive PR? Benefitting whom? With quite a big risk of leaking (how many people would need to be involved in such a fake and all keep quiet? What if the Russians, the Chinese or other non pro-Americans would find out (lots of spies anyway) and publicize the fake? Way too much downside and hardly any benefits in faking the moon landings.) So I don't think so... Anyone believing the moonlandings were fake I don't take too seriously really.

@rei: the non-critical thinking of the hippie era I don't buy either. Remember the race riots in the sixties, Womens' Lib, the anti Vietnam war protests, Watergate, etc etc.

[rei]

Originally Posted by blossom

Quite possibly rei. I'm curious about it myself...I've been doing alot of work on changes, and it's quite possible I am still holding on to this part of myself out of fear? As for my brother, I don't think I'm defending him, since I admitted that he has gone off the rails with pot and what not. I have moved towards a healthier way of living in recent years and don't surround myself with those people anymore, so it's quite possible I am clinging to what is familiar to me, as I have been in other areas of my life.

Thanks for asking

Also, by "We"I was referring to the millions of people who AREN'T interested in creating change, but who are liking the status quo! That's what's mainstream I think!

well, about what you meant by "we" or what you said in response to that, i'd say even non-mainstream people like their own status quo. status quo is partly what makes change so difficult. even people who are always trying new things, that IS their status quo ya know? but i am regressing now, into my previous self who was very nitpicky with words (common INTP stuff, i am now INFP)...

you're welcome for the question... glad to know it may have triggered some clarity for you. i'd say we don't really have to abandon who we were in the past, we can totally honor and respect that we were doing the best we could with the resources we had at that time. just as 99.9% of us are always doing the best we can with the resources and circumstances around us in any given moment. so maybe clinging to the old you is not the most affirming way to go about it, but i don't think you really need to completely sever ties with who you were either... i dunno if that makes any sense at all but hopefully it does.

my point is i don't think there is anything wrong with honoring who we were before. but the intensity and urgency i've seen from you in this thread makes me wonder if there is more to it, like if you take the anti-CT stuff personally even though that isn't you anymore. and if that's the case, you might benefit from reflecting on possible reasons you would take it personally now. maybe this thread isn't the best place... don't want to cause any derailment here, beyond what's already happened. just something i noticed, potential growth opportunity/insight moment and wanted to show it in case you didn't completely see it... glad i didn't seem to step on your virtual toes by doing that.

[rei]

spirit, i may have the dates confused, but i think the lunar landing happened in the very early 60s and most of what you listed came after that - any history buffs care to validate or invalidate this?

also... this brings up something i thought about making its own thread. i've noticed that many times the american public is given info about space exploration, there's a war going on at the same time. maybe it's meant to distract or balance out the sadness and pain that people have when they think about that war, i dunno. but it's become a pretty consistent pattern. lunar landing during vietnam conflict, recently bush suddenly did a big project for mars during the iraq war. i'm sure there are others too. so i think if you want a logical 'why' or the value of the event you might look at that pattern.

[blossom]

No you didn't step on my toes at all... I appreciate your approach and also your acknowledgement that no matter what we change in our lives, parts of ourselves from past days still remain and they shouldn't be totally dismissed, but honoured.

I think that my urgency with this particular matter actually has nothing to do with CT's at all. It's more to do with my current emotional state! I have been in recovery for quite some time from PTSD and have just gotten back from my mothers the other day, where she behaved pretty horribly towards me. She left my father about 2 years ago, and there are just alot of lies between them...they both just lie so much. She's bitching about all this stuff to me about dad, trying to make him look bad, and he's doing the same to me for the same reasons...theyre both just screwed up and I keep putting up my boundaries so that they don't use me to get back at each other...but they ignore my boundaries and then make me out to be not nice for not wanting to be their counsellor! I'm pretty empathis, so I can sometimes lose my own identity in other peoples issues, especially when they are constantly dumping their problems onto me and not giving a damn about my feelings or my issues. So, I guess the whole exposing of lies factor that goes with CT's is something that does trigger me at the moment. Thanks for helping me get to the bottom of this rei.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by rei

@brendan: you think 2012 is bringing massive problems? i think and know the experience signified by that date is bringing massive solutions.

I wouldn't have a clue! But, I hope there's no problems!

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by rei

spirit, i may have the dates confused, but i think the lunar landing happened in the very early 60s and most of what you listed came after that - any history buffs care to validate or invalidate this?

Moon landing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1969 first manned moon landing - unless you believe the CTs .

also... this brings up something i thought about making its own thread. i've noticed that many times the american public is given info about space exploration, there's a war going on at the same time. maybe it's meant to distract or balance out the sadness and pain that people have when they think about that war, i dunno. but it's become a pretty consistent pattern. lunar landing during vietnam conflict, recently bush suddenly did a big project for mars during the iraq war. i'm sure there are others too. so i think if you want a logical 'why' or the value of the event you might look at that pattern.

I think pres Kennedy announced the plan for a man on the moon in '61 - before Vietnam, no?

I don't think space exploration and war go hand in hand - though some research obviously has strategic (military) objectives too - e.g. satellites for spying.

[rei]

you're most welcome. if you want to rant about it more or explore it or brainstorm new ways to neutralize that mutual take-my-side stuff, send me a PM. and thank YOU for letting me feel that warm sense of value that comes from helping someone sort things out. when i do that, it is out of a genuine desire to see someone experience greater balance and joy, but i won't pretend i don't get anything out of it.

okay, let's get this thread back on track shall we? who wants to chime in for or against a separate forum for 'conspiracy theories'?

[rei]

spirit, i admit there were probably some inconsistencies and flaws in my argument about the lunar landing. i honestly don't know whether i believe it was a hoax or real. and i wasn't saying war and space exploration go hand in hand, only that there seems to be a pattern of space-related mass announcements happening during unpopular wars.

here's a wikipedia quote (not the most authoritative source, but this statement has a citation): "The United States entered the war to prevent a communist takeover of South Vietnam as part of their wider strategy of containment. Military advisors arrived beginning in 1950. U.S. involvement escalated in the early 1960s, with U.S. troop levels tripling in 1961 and tripling again in 1962.[13]" [my italics]

and at the beginning of that entry, it says the conflict started in 1959(Vietnam War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). troop levels tripled the same year Kennedy announced the intention to land on the moon. even if the landing was authentic, i still find it weird that so often major space projects are announced, or new space advancements are made, during unpopular wars. puzzling really.