Racism makes no sense

[ar81]

https://genographic.nationalgeograph...hic/index.html

Where do you really come from? And how did you get to where you live today? DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who—about 60,000 years ago—began a remarkable journey.

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | We're all mutants, say scientists

Each of us has at least 100 new mutations in our DNA, according to research published in the journal Current Biology.

So we are all mutants. Races are merely mutations.
Discriminating you because you have blonde hair, or darker skin, chinese eyes or bigger hands seems stupid.
There is no "you and us", it is just "us".
Racism is a stupid invention of humans.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by ar81

...
Racism is a stupid invention of humans.

Racism is a form of xenophobia, the fear of beings different from us.

You can see that in small children already: 'you can be my friend but not you'. One neighborhood against the other, town against town, country against country. Men against women. Tribe against tribe. Race against race. Different social classes against each other. Heterosexuals against gays.

Part of this fear is biology-driven and has a useful function. But we humans are not only biological creatures.

[hawkal]

Scientifically speaking, if races further away from Africa are the result of mutation does that mean that they've mutated into something genetically superior?

[ar81]

Originally Posted by hawkal

Scientifically speaking, if races further away from Africa are the result of mutation does that mean that they've mutated into something genetically superior?

No, just something different.
Dark skinned people can withstand sun better than the others.
Dark skinned are better adapted for sunny weather.
Polar weather requires more absortion of sunlight, so the dark color is gone.
Which one is superior? None.

Mutations create adaptations to certain environments. But it does not mean "superiority". A person with no dark skin would develop cancer faster when exposed to sunlight in sunny places.

Also if you compare the shape of an african hunter and the average westerner who hunts his food in the supermarket, you clearly see who is physically "superior".

[hawkal]

Originally Posted by ar81

No, just something different.
Dark skinned people can withstand sun better than the others.
Dark skinned are better adapted for sunny weather.
Polar weather requires more absortion of sunlight, so the dark color is gone.
Which one is superior? None.

Mutations create adaptations to certain environments. But it does not mean "superiority". A person with no dark skin would develop cancer faster when exposed to sunlight in sunny places.

Also if you compare the shape of an african hunter and the average westerner who hunts his food in the supermarket, you clearly see who is physically "superior".

Well I was thinking of everything genetically not just skin colour.

[spirit4711]

@hawkal, anything specific you're thinking of?

[Brutha]

Scientifically speaking, if races further away from Africa are the result of mutation does that mean that they've mutated into something genetically superior?

There are just as many generation between someone who lives today in Africa and a human that lived 50,000 years ago in Africa as there are between someone who lives today in Europe and someone who lived 50,000 years ago in Africa.

So we are all mutants. Races are merely mutations.

That argument doesn't do anything to invalidate the concept of race.

For some medical reasons it's sometimes even beneficial for a doctor to treat patients of different races differently. It's not wrong for a doctor to do an extra test against sickle cell anemia when he has a black patient.

The topic is about morals and not much about biology.

Ingroup/Outgroup morality creates a lot of our human morality.
If you go deeper into decision theory you also find that you have to get your bayesian priors from somewhere (you just don't have to be conscious of them).

[Barcs]

Originally Posted by hawkal

Well I was thinking of everything genetically not just skin colour.

Evolution has shown that genetic mutations occur and that the more beneficial ones for survival are passed on to the offspring. That doesn't make somebody more superior than another. Just more adapted to a certain environment.

Racism is stupid. We are all homo sapiens.

[hawkal]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

@hawkal, anything specific you're thinking of?

There are just as many generation between someone who lives today in Africa and a human that lived 50,000 years ago in Africa as there are between someone who lives today in Europe and someone who lived 50,000 years ago in Africa.

Why is Africa the worlds charity pot?

[BitterFlower]

^^^Colonialism/Cartels with nefarious leaders. Most African countries are stable, it's just that the focus is on the poorest and most war-torn nations. There are poor in every Western country (I lived next door to people without running water) and there is unstability in the West also.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by hawkal

Why is Africa the worlds charity pot?

Because Africa has been targeted for charity, not development.
The difference is that charity is about giving one fish, development is about teaching how o fish.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by Brutha

That argument doesn't do anything to invalidate the concept of race.

So if you have bigger hands or thicker eyebrows, do you belong to another race?

[Brutha]

So if you have bigger hands or thicker eyebrows, do you belong to another race?

No, that doesn't happen to be the way the term race is used in biology.

[hawkal]

Originally Posted by ar81

Because Africa has been targeted for charity, not development.
The difference is that charity is about giving one fish, development is about teaching how o fish.

But surely that doesn't mean to say that the people of Africa's poorest nations have no initiative (or maybe it does). There was always a first for something, like the first person to catch a fish. What's stopping them from "taking the bull by the horns" and really taking control of the situation even if it means learning old skills?

Have they no gumption?

[Lamusa]

Originally Posted by hawkal

But surely that doesn't mean to say that the people of Africa's poorest nations have no initiative (or maybe it does). There was always a first for something, like the first person to catch a fish. What's stopping them from "taking the bull by the horns" and really taking control of the situation even if it means learning old skills?

Have they no gumption?

Poverty exists around the world, not just in Africa, so, what's your reason behind focusing on African countries, alone, scientifically speaking? Long before the Trans-atlantic slave trade many African societies flourished. Many people forget that Egypt is actually a part of Africa. It seems to me that many people find it difficult, for reasons they believe to be scientific and inherent in people of African descent (and those primarily with darker skin,) could not have possibly made any worthwhile contributions to society. Why is that? Africa is a large complex place full of many different kinds of people. some who adhere to traditional ways and some who, because of colonialism, try to assimilate their western indoctrination. Some come here to America or the UK for access to more opportunities. It is easy to question the surface of something, but why avoid the roots? Everything has roots. Rome fell. But why did it fall? England was once the greatest empire in the world...How did it get that way and and why did it eventually retreat behind America's shadow? Many of these answers you can read in any American textbook. As for the African continent, however, or for that matter individual countries in Africa, the conversation gets a little muddled because the history as it is taught particularly in western societies is convoluted.

So many studies have been conducted on the brains of people of African descent to determine intelligence. Racist thinking suggests people of African descent are lazy and need people's charity and handouts. Race is a social construct. Many people have black blood who don't appear to and vice versa. It is our beliefs about each other that need to change because we are all one. What we do to one part of the web affects the whole part. If all we focus on about the African continent is poverty what does that say about our consciousness? If we focused on the vibrant, beautiful, strong, creative, resilient and intelligent people-with gumption-who live there that might say another thing about our consciousness, altogether.

[Trezker]

All humans are equally evolved. We've all gone through almost exactly the same number of mutations. There is more genetic differences between two white Swedes living in the same city than between a Swede and a Maori.

The level of evolution in a living being depends on how many generations it has behind it, and humans don't reproduce fast. Insects are way more evolved than humans. Sure, insects don't build stuff that pierce the clouds and the don't launch shuttles into space. But they are definitely more evolved than us, and much more flexible when nature changes.

[hawkal]

Originally Posted by Lamusa

Poverty exists around the world, not just in Africa, so, what's your reason behind focusing on African countries, alone, scientifically speaking? Long before the Trans-atlantic slave trade many African societies flourished. Many people forget that Egypt is actually a part of Africa. It seems to me that many people find it difficult, for reasons they believe to be scientific and inherent in people of African descent (and those primarily with darker skin,) could not have possibly made any worthwhile contributions to society. Why is that? Africa is a large complex place full of many different kinds of people. some who adhere to traditional ways and some who, because of colonialism, try to assimilate their western indoctrination. Some come here to America or the UK for access to more opportunities. It is easy to question the surface of something, but why avoid the roots? Everything has roots. Rome fell. But why did it fall? England was once the greatest empire in the world...How did it get that way and and why did it eventually retreat behind America's shadow? Many of these answers you can read in any American textbook. As for the African continent, however, or for that matter individual countries in Africa, the conversation gets a little muddled because the history as it is taught particularly in western societies is convoluted.

So many studies have been conducted on the brains of people of African descent to determine intelligence. Racist thinking suggests people of African descent are lazy and need people's charity and handouts. Race is a social construct. Many people have black blood who don't appear to and vice versa. It is our beliefs about each other that need to change because we are all one. What we do to one part of the web affects the whole part. If all we focus on about the African continent is poverty what does that say about our consciousness? If we focused on the vibrant, beautiful, strong, creative, resilient and intelligent people-with gumption-who live there that might say another thing about our consciousness, altogether.

I know that poverty exists all arround the world. I used Africa because it is the one most often in the spot light. All charitible advertisement is based on Africa, all celebritites who go to help people in the poorest countries alway go to Africa. Both Live Aid concerts were based on Africa. Simply put, the west seems to be infatuated with trying to get people to help Africa (guit maybe?)

Nothing seems to have changed in Africa's poorest nations over the last 40+ years and it does look like it's going to change in the next 40 year, Why?

Is it bad leadership? Is it religious beliefs? Is it the mindset of the nations?
Debt? etcetera?

Look what China has achieved over the last 40 years. It will go on to become the most powerful nation in the world. Why?

[stolen]

Why is Africa poor?

Not that it has much to do with racism, maybe should be put into another thread?

Mostly because of decolonisation I believe. Most African nations were exploited by Europeans (and Americans) during the 19th century. Nowadays there is a lot of conflict in some countries over the artifical european borders, over money etc. Also Africa lacks a lot of infrastructure necessary for development.

But if you look at the progress made in developing Asia in the last fifty years then maybe there is hope for African nations too? There are many success stories in Africa as well as failures.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by hawkal

B
Have they no gumption?

Maybe not "gumption" in the sense that the west would want them to have. But why is it up to the western countries to tell africans what kind of "gumption" they should have? Africans were doing just fine before Europeans moved in to rape and pillage the continent, in the guise of exporting their "civilization" and "superior religion". Africans invited them into their home warmly and without cynicism, and look what happened......Africa is targeted for charity because good westerners have the good heart to correct what has been done wrong.

Did you not watch "Blood Diamond"? Do you not realize that an African likely had to die or have their arm cut off for you to wear that shiny piece of metal, and the african didn't even make barely a dollar a day to get it to you?

Call it "survival of the fittest" or simply "survival of the most heartless". You may be right either way.

You know the best way to feed on food that you'd otherwise have a hard time acquiring is to get two people fight over their food while you sit back and eat it. Is it stupid on the part of the people fighting? You bet. But there's an african saying: "when the stupid person smartens up, the smart person's in trouble".

[hawkal]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Maybe not "gumption" in the sense that the west would want them to have. But why is it up to the western countries to tell africans what kind of "gumption" they should have? Africans were doing just fine before Europeans moved in to rape and pillage the continent, in the guise of exporting their "civilization" and "superior religion". Africans invited them into their home warmly and without cynicism, and look what happened......Africa is targeted for charity because good westerners have the good heart to correct what has been done wrong.

Did you not watch "Blood Diamond"? Do you not realize that an African likely had to die or have their arm cut off for you to wear that shiny piece of metal, and the african didn't even make barely a dollar a day to get it to you?

Call it "survival of the fittest" or simply "survival of the most heartless".

What I meant was not why does the west help Africa. I think it's good that other more prosperous nations help the poor nations and that it should be done more. What I meant was why do they need the aid in the first place?

Why (does it seem) that they cannot help themselves?

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by hawkal

What I meant was why do they need the aid in the first place?

Why (does it seem) that they cannot help themselves?

I think you hit the nail right on the head with "why does it seem". It seems that way. There is no inherent truth in it. Africa is perhaps the richest continent on earth. Most people are going to be shocked by that statement I know.

It seems that way because the African countries are still reeling from the after effects of colonialism. It's like going to a person's house, and beating their unsuspecting self almost to un-conscious, then leaving them that way and hoping they recover in time to come back and compete with you because otherwise you'll just go back and take all they've got in their house. Hey, you might even offer them a few pennies to take some of their stuff, and meanwhile you'll sell them all you've got at your set price. They better hurry up and recover and come get in the game with you.

Is that possible? Of course. Is it going to happen right away? Most likely not. In fact, in that vulnerable state, if you can teach them to hate their brother by convincing them their brother is their biggest hindrance, it might give them another enemy to fight while you pretend you weren't part of the problem.

(You here is just the general reference you)

BTW, for the sake of adequate disclosure, I should of course not fail to mention there are some african countries that made a relatively smooth transition from colonialism, such as Botswana for example. But many of the current african leaders (the Mugabes) are products of colonial indoctrination. They will need to die before something better can come along.

[MidasGirl]

Anyway, back to "racism makes no sense", I think it makes sense from an ego perspective. I think inherently the ego has an innate need to feel separate and disconnected. And what better way to separate and disconnect than the most obvious one -- skin color differences? Although it might probably be the least sophisticated way to create disconnection.

Originally Posted by ar81

https://genographic.nationalgeograph...hic/index.html



BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | We're all mutants, say scientists



So we are all mutants. Races are merely mutations.
Discriminating you because you have blonde hair, or darker skin, chinese eyes or bigger hands seems stupid.
There is no "you and us", it is just "us".
Racism is a stupid invention of humans.

[hawkal]

I wouldn't agree with it being ego based because from what I can tell racism is caused by how a person is raised and where they're raised. Also I think small minded people have a lot to do with it.

Since black comedians can say nearly anything they want about white people as part of their comedy routines while white comedians are forbidden from using any stereotypes about minorities of any stripe in their routines for fear of being seen as racist, one has to ponder whether or not racism against white folks is considered impossible.

Is Racism Against White People Possible? - Blogcritics Culture

If people want racial equality it should be in all areas.

[Jaiysun4]

There is always an "us" and a "them"

so racism can be on grounds of ethnicity, nationality, belief system, wealth, family, anything.

It isn't always bad, you have to differentiate between groups of people. We do this anyway, regardless of whether you admit it or not.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by hawkal

I
If people want racial equality it should be in all areas.

I doubt any serious person would argue that racism is confined to any one group of people.

Speaking of comedy, you're preaching to the choir, my idea of a humor is that it has to be funny to the 'hilarity target'. Black comedians wouldn't be creating humor at the expense of white people if it was offensive to them. Humor only works when the person being made fun of can laugh, regardless of who the person making the joke is.

[cylon]

I think people who are preoccupied with racism are the real racists. They are the ones who are constantly thinking about the difference between races, and drawing distinctions between races, and are unable to see the commonality all humans share.

And they are allowed to do it because society gives pats on the heads to people who are preoccupied with race. They say you are "spreading awareness" and "fighting for equality", but in reality all you're really doing is reminding people, over and over and over again, that people are not equals, and that we need to look at each other on the basis of skin color. An idea that should have vanished long ago.

This is going on a lot right now with the racists on the extreme left calling anyone who dares disagree with Obama a racist. Their preoccupation with race is often the first thing out of their mouths, before they've even given themselves a moment to hear the opposite point of view.

My hope is that once the euphoria of Obama's election wears off, they will realize he is just a human being like they are and that he doesn't deserve to be singled out and treated differently because of his skin color. If they get to that point, they can start looking at his actual policies and the way he conducts himself in office, and not just "he is a black man---not allowed to criticize".

Anyway, that's an American's take on race and the current racial climate in the U.S.

[MidasGirl]

.........

[Barcs]

Originally Posted by cylon

I think people who are preoccupied with racism are the real racists. They are the ones who are constantly thinking about the difference between races, and drawing distinctions between races, and are unable to see the commonality all humans share.

And they are allowed to do it because society gives pats on the heads to people who are preoccupied with race. They say you are "spreading awareness" and "fighting for equality", but in reality all you're really doing is reminding people, over and over and over again, that people are not equals, and that we need to look at each other on the basis of skin color. An idea that should have vanished long ago.

This is going on a lot right now with the racists on the extreme left calling anyone who dares disagree with Obama a racist. Their preoccupation with race is often the first thing out of their mouths, before they've even given themselves a moment to hear the opposite point of view.

My hope is that once the euphoria of Obama's election wears off, they will realize he is just a human being like they are and that he doesn't deserve to be singled out and treated differently because of his skin color. If they get to that point, they can start looking at his actual policies and the way he conducts himself in office, and not just "he is a black man---not allowed to criticize".

Anyway, that's an American's take on race and the current racial climate in the U.S.

I couldn't agree more. Race is a huge focus of the media, and the whole hate crime thing made it worse. Anytime a crime happens, the first thing everyone mentions is the race of the assailant and the victim. Then people are punished more if they are different. You've got the media, who is obsessed with race, and then you have the civil rights activists like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who turn everything into a racial issue. This needs to stop. Racism has been prolonged for an unnecessarily long time. Being a cylon, I'm sure this hits close to home for you.

[cylon]

Thanks Barcs. I know it's not just me that is tired of the divisiveness in the country.

(Lol@cyon comment. Someday these humans will see I'm just here to help them see the error of their ways, if they would just stop firing bullets at me.)

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Barcs

I couldn't agree more. Race is a huge focus of the media, and the whole hate crime thing made it worse. Anytime a crime happens, the first thing everyone mentions is the race of the assailant and the victim. Then people are punished more if they are different. You've got the media, who is obsessed with race, and then you have the civil rights activists like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who turn everything into a racial issue. This needs to stop. Racism has been prolonged for an unnecessarily long time. Being a cylon, I'm sure this hits close to home for you.

Hate crime legislation never made sense to me. If I hit someone it is still a crime and should be handled as such. If I kill someone I should be punished for killing someone. For sure if I intentionally kill someone it is not because I like or love him.