Is Rush Racist?

[amj]

I think their friendship is very real. From what I have been hearing from youtube clips, I think Rush tip-toes that line where his comments can be taken as racially insensitive or racist. When Rush lumps racial groups into general categories and then spreads lies about them, it makes me wonder what his true motives are.

[amj]

Originally Posted by cylon

I hear what you're saying, but I'm asking is the comment, the actual words on their own. I mean if you didn't know that Cosby was black or white, and you read those comments, would they be racist?

What you're saying is it's not the actual content, but it's the motive behind the content?

Yeah I believe racist comments usually have motives. It depends on who is speaking and to whom they are addressing.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by amj

Yeah I believe racist comments usually have motives. It depends on who is speaking and to whom they are addressing.

Ok, so I take that to mean that it's not the comment itself.

To me that assumes that other races can't comment on other races. I think that's too p.c.

Because at some point, someone is going to say a comment, and not be a real racist, but it's going to be taken that way just because of the particular race they are. Seems like a vicious circle to me.

Interesting discussion though. Talk to you later.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by amj

Man Oh Man. I remember when Cosby said that stuff and after is sank in, it really bothered me. To answer your question, was it racist? No. It was insensitive, harsh, and way over the top but racist? No. He's not demonstrating hate for his own race. However, it was very pompous of him to say those things. I lost a lot of respect for Cosby when I saw that.

Why? Wasn't it true what Cosby said? What bothered you?

[aggie]

i very recently heard a sound bite where some web site that is satirical posted a false hood about something anti ameican or fascist sounding was written by obama in college....well rush found this obscure website (it is like onion, but not onion) and read it as fact on his show...

when he found out he had been punked...he then made a statement saying, well folks even if it isn't true...we all know this is the way obama really FEELS....good God...that is a reach

if he is not rascist...i wonder what the reason is that he tries SO hard to undermine the president to the point of the absudity above.

as i said, he in his own words, likes to pull chains and be inflammatory to get listeners...rich and powerful and this keeps him there. this is the main reason he does it, and he plays upon the sheeplike, dull mentality that it feeds. being a rascist is secondary, if he is one.

[Lamusa]

Is Rush Racist?

I think the more important question is what degree are WE racist or struggle with our own internalized oppressions. Rush Limbaugh is a symbol. A caricature. I feel sorry for him. Isn't he deaf? I think he's got heart problems. Anyway, he's human like the rest of us. He admits he says all the things he does for money. Who is he really, then? What does he really believe? Like all of us he needs our love. And we can choose to be grateful to him for helping to bring out the racism and anger that we hold in our hearts about the past because then we can look at it and hopefully release it. Racism is insidious. It's painful for everybody. It's difficult to turn away from. But in order to end racism it might be helpful to look at it fully in yourself no matter what race you are before we start focusing on one man with a radio show. We can say it's 2009 and let's move on but if we are to move on we need to examine this in a much deeper way than focusing on the coments of one man. Racism intersects with so many things. Capitalism for one. Classism. Sexism. Colonialism. The psychological effects of these things on all of us is quite profound. So much poverty still exists in the U.S. among blacks and whites and Native Americans. Study White Supremacy and how it intersects and then divides with Black Nationalism. Study the painful history of "Passing." Ever watch the melodrama, "Imitation of Life?" Bring tissues. Everything today is informed by all of this. Hollywood was built on the 1915 movie Birth of a Nation which re-energized the KKK. This movie is still taught in film schools because of its groundbreaking use of technique and because it was master of the close-up and so on. D.W. Griffith, the director denied being racist at all. We deal with race all the time but where do we get to? We only scratch the surface.

Now, I practice Intention-Manifestation, meditation, forgiveness and so on but it is not always easy to forget these things. Most of us want to ignore it because what you focus on expands and then history just repeats itself. Where is the middle ground? I am black, European and Indian. I embrace all sides of me. One side of my family was born into poverty. The other, great wealth. I love all parts. This took me awhile to get to. Science tells us the oldest bones were found in Africa. If we all originally came from the same place then it is only something unchallenged in us that continues to divide and conquer. Don't look at Rush, look at you.

[aggie]

beautifully put, and in reality matters so much more than the ramblings of mr. limbaugh....

[Lamusa]

In thinking further about Rush Limbaugh and maybe even people like Glenn Beck and even Tupac Shakur, I think of Malcolm X. I am in no way saying these guys are like him but when I think of the journeys life can take us on I can see some connections.

Malcolm X in his life time became a symbol of hatred and violence towards white people. He loved his community deeply but he was angry and this anger manifested into hatred for white people. Growing up he was also a bit of a hustler and a thug beofe he joined the Nation of Islam. When he went to Mecca and saw white men embracing black men and how much love he felt for others and himself, his views began to shift. Unfortunately, his life was taken before he could explore these views much further. I say all this to say that as long as you are alive your heart can open your anger can release and you can think in a different way. It doesn't always happen, I know, but it is possible. Most of the anger we feel is mis-directed. We react to things that happened to us in our early childhoods and also our ancestries.

Tupac was very conflicted. His Mother had been a Black Panther, he was really conscious and loved his people. Yet he was born in jail and raised in poverty by his mother who became addicted to crack. He had a lot of pain and resentment in him but also love. He held a lot of aner toward his mother but loved her deeply. Listen to Dear Mama or watch the video on You tube. He certainly got caught up in material things and violence but he was human. He had a heart. I'd like to start thinking about white men who are coming from a place of anger in the same way. That's the only way we can forgive and move on is if we find the humanity in the situation and realize that most of us are operating out of fear. We must not only love "our people" but love all people and want the best for all. Let's tap into the love.

Read, "The Autobiography of Malcolm X"

[amj]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Why? Wasn't it true what Cosby said? What bothered you?

He turned it into us vs. him. That's never a good thing. He was kicking Blacak people while they were down. He wasn't trying to help, he was complaining and pointing fingers. No good could ever come from his comments because he wasn't trying to help. He generalized in instances. He said, “You’ve got to stop beating up your women because you can’t find a job, because you didn’t want to get an education and now you’re (earning) minimum wage,” This implies that all black men who beat their women have no education and are basically "stupid." Have you heard of Chris Brown? The educated, rich, singer/songwriter... I didn't hear Cosby go at high profiled celebrities who beat their women. Plus, Black men aren't the only people beating their women but he chose not to address that. Again, he wasn't trying to help.

I saw one of his complete speeches (I think he made at least 2 or 3) and I was very disappointed when he made comments about Black names. He said, "With names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap and all of them are in jail." That was probably the worst comment of all. A name doesn't define a person. Attacking a person's name and coorelating it with crime is absurd.

Cosby was not talking about me but I still took offense. A person of his stature can do a lot with his words. He chose to use his words to attack his own people. Nothing was accomplished. He didn't talk about how the problem began or what could be done to solve the problem. He didn't talk about how this problem has been going on for decades. Instead, he made it us (the upper/upper-middle class) vs. them (the lower class). As I said before, I lost a lot of respect for Cosby because of his comments.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by amj

...
He chose to use his words to attack his own people.
...

I get your point but my interpretation is different. He stated some ugly facts. And asked his people to clean up their act. Nothing wrong with that in my view. And not an attack in my opinion. More a call to take responsibility for it.

E.g. the point about people not speaking / writing their language correctly is a big disadvantage for their career. In ANY race.

And what is if a white guy had said exactly the same? Would he have been a racist then?

In my opinion it's best to examine the facts. Cosby had at least the nerve to state the facts as he saw them. Always a good basis for discussion. You don't need to agree with all that he says or the way he says it, but don't you agree he made some very valid points?

[aggie]

yeah... many years ago i was involved in an employment situation where a number of my peers were black and my immediate superior was also.

there were some issues and all the cases my superior was very impatient and disgusted with the actions/behavior of the other employees. it was never an issue of race, but performance and she expected, needed, wanted more from them...

it's also like, i personally don't concern myself in the least with inter racial relationships...but some black women get really upset if black men want to date white women. and some black men get offended if black women want to be involved with white men.

unless we are in those shoes...we don't know how all that feels.

[amj]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

And what is if a white guy had said exactly the same? Would he have been a racist then?

In my opinion it's best to examine the facts. Cosby had at least the nerve to state the facts as he saw them. Always a good basis for discussion. You don't need to agree with all that he says or the way he says it, but don't you agree he made some very valid points?

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Some of his comments were true but like I said, his generalizations were unnecessary and some of his comments were untrue and offensive. His intentions were not to help. His comments didn't change anything.

If a white guy said it, yes I would consider him racist. I know, it's a double standard but it's how I feel. I'll give this example, if my sister talks bad about my mom, then I can deal with that. Now, if someone outside of my family talks about my mom, then we're going to probably end up fighting.

[amj]

Originally Posted by aggie

there were some issues and all the cases my superior was very impatient and disgusted with the actions/behavior of the other employees. it was never an issue of race, but performance and she expected, needed, wanted more from them...

it's also like, i personally don't concern myself in the least with inter racial relationships...but some black women get really upset if black men want to date white women. and some black men get offended if black women want to be involved with white men.

unless we are in those shoes...we don't know how all that feels.

I'm not sure what you meant. What are you trying to say?

[aggie]

that some blacks are harder on other blacks....and that i was in the middle of such a situation....i don't really have an opinion on it....as i said only the individuals involved know why they react the way they do.....i was making a reference to the bill cosby thing....

[amj]

Originally Posted by aggie

that some blacks are harder on other blacks....and that i was in the middle of such a situation....i don't really have an opinion on it....as i said only the individuals involved know why they react the way they do.....i was making a reference to the bill cosby thing....

Oh I understand what you mean. That probably made you uncomfortable. It's like being at a friend's house and overhearing an argument from the next room.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by aggie

if he is not rascist...i wonder what the reason is that he tries SO hard to undermine the president to the point of the absudity above.

Maybe he actually believes that Obama's policy's are extremely bad and harmful for the country? Is that a possibility?

The thing with Obama's college paper was, Rush did say it was a hoax. But all the people who had to retract his supposed racist comments in the media said "but, we know Rush believes it."

Which is the same thing you're doing, "But, we know he has bad motives."

That was the joke, Rush was saying "Fine, it's not true, but I'll say he still really means it since that's what they are saying about me."

You can read his words of what that whole thing was about, or just make your mind up over "some soundbyte" that you heard. I'd say being actually informed on something always has more validity to it:


Ignorant Media Misses Our Satiric Tweak on the Obama Thesis Hoax



It's funny you say that he must just hate Obama, then go on to point out all the deficiencies Rush has, and that is followers have. Sounds to me like you have your own preconceptions and that nothing anyone else says can change that. Which is what you're accusing Rush and his listeners of doing.

I got to say, I made a really long post about this topic, addressing many of the points made and it's like I never even posted it. It's disappointing that people are unwilling to even question their assumptions. No one wants to read the other side they just see "Rush Limbaugh" in a thread title and think "Ooh! I'm going to criticize Rush Limbaugh! Fun!"

I'm glad amj took the time to talk about this stuff. At least it shows he's willing to listen to the other side and seriously consider what they're saying, THEN give his opinion on what has been said.

But like I said way, way before, it's Limbaugh. Everyone says he's a bad guy, so it must be true.

[aggie]

i cannot recall ever saying that i HATE rush limbaugh....yeah, i think he is a rich shock jock, that unfortunately is making money off of, as a said a dull, sheeplike mentality. my opinion...

i criticize rush, therefore it must be true that i hate him

i read the interview you posted...and again, i never said obama was perfect either....i don't like it when rush uses a "step n' fetch it" voice when he talks about him, therefore i must believe rush is the devil and obama is the messiah

the interview in imo, is up to interpretation of rush's words, his inflection, and his general attitude...i give him credit...he lands on his feet!

[cylon]

Well I appreciate that you actually read what I posted. Wasn't sure if you were ignoring them or not.

Many people don't make up their own minds, they just go off of what someone else tells them. If you look at the actual words of the person being spoken, in the appropriate context in which they were said, and then you still come to the conclusion that you don't believe what they're saying, then you can say you have an informed opinion. The Daily Show isn't enough to have an informed opinion.

Kind of like how I know a lot about Obama, have watched his speeches and debates, kept track of what he says in office versus what he said during the campaign... and that's how I come to my opinion on his health care plans for example. It's an informed opinion.

I'm not sure what about me you think is dull and sheep like. I am fascinated by this stuff, as I think you see from my posts. I am very interested in the way people come to their beliefs, why they hold those beliefs, and how that all relates to who gets elected in Washington. I'm not usually satisfied by "Shock jocks" or whatever you think is style over substance... I like real substance when it comes to these topics. Nothing dull or sheeplike about it. Rush is one of the most respected political commentators there is, and both people from the right and left listen to him religiously. As I said, if Rush says it one day, the president of the united states addresses it the next. Along with everyone else in Washington.

But that is a common anti-Rush statement, that the people who listen to him are mindless robots. Can't speak for them, but that's how I feel about it.

Might as well just leave the discussion there.

[Andrew Brunelle]

He either is racist or he is just pandering to his conservative audience by inferring how whites are superior to blacks in every way possible. He is annoying and I believe he is racist, but that's just my opinion.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

He either is racist or he is just pandering to his conservative audience by inferring how whites are superior to blacks in every way possible. He is annoying and I believe he is racist, but that's just my opinion.

Andrew, have you ever listened to his show?

[aggie]

cylon i have listened to his show and i don't know how you can say that a man who speaks like as i said before "step 'n fetch it" when speaking about obama....is not at least sounding racist?

let us face it bush was no rocket scientist...i am sure that good ole boy rush was not so negative about him.

i do not for one moment think you are sheeplike or dull witted....

but there are a lot of people who don't realize the voice of rush does not really care about anyone but how the voice of rush makes his money clip very heavy.

do you reeeallly think this man in his mansion in palm beach really gives a hoot?

he has said himself he speaks to pull chains and be inflammatory so he will have listeners, so he will have ratings, so he will have sponsers, so he will sign multi million dollar contracts.

cylon, you could get on the radio and do the same thing.

i am convinced...he is playing people very well, don't hate him, but i hate what he does, because i think he has people duped.

it is a sad day, when the conservatives or reps need a shock jock to be there voice.

if he thinks he is being humorous then it is at the expense of all of his religious listeners...because some of them think he is the messiah....

[aggie]

oh nooooo...i am playing right into the web of "voice of reason"......i am doing exactly what mr limbaugh wants me to do....talk about him

i'm done!

[DaveM]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Why? Wasn't it true what Cosby said? What bothered you?

Exactly. Obama said the same thing. That black men have to take more responsibility.

Its key to seperate who Rush Limbaugh is in real life and Rush the on air personna. Talk show hosts often act, talk and have different views than how they really have.

He's an entertainer, just cause he has his own talk show doesn't mean he's not acting to some degree. All hosts have an image that they want to keep, if their ratings are struggling they change it up.

Any quotes from Rush that he said on air or in interviews are his on air personna and not necessarly his peronnal views. You can say his professional character is racists based on those quotes, but to call him personnally a racists you need proof of how his attitude away from the public eye.

If George Clooney plays a racists character in a movie you don't call him personnally a racists but you can call his character one.

[aggie]

ok, two days later and i had to come back. i embarrass myself

the problem with rush...is the audience that takes his word as gospel and believes he has the answers.

some people don't get the snake oil show concept....but unfortunately...some but not ALL of his audience are of that mindset....

[cylon]

Originally Posted by aggie

ok, two days later and i had to come back. i embarrass myself

the problem with rush...is the audience that takes his word as gospel and believes he has the answers.

some people don't get the snake oil show concept....but unfortunately...some but not ALL of his audience are of that mindset....

Yeah I thought you were done.

I am appreciative that you are saying that his audience isn't 100% evil.

[aggie]

of course they are not. I listen....and i am an angel