The New America - what will it be?

[JMan]

Where do you think America is headed? What will America look like in 10 years? 20? 50?

Is America really heading toward socialism?

Is growing unionization a vehicle to progress socialist agendas?

Is America already a socialist nation that doesn't realize it?

Are the ties back to athiest, communist and New Deal roots of the current administration's political allies something to be concerned about?

Are we seeing the change America voted for?

Is the government trying to increase the welfare state?

Is the government trying to control capitalism?

Has this movement been carried forward through several administrations, both Republican and Democrat?

Does the government need to increase the size of the welfare state to accomplish their goals?


A lot to consider, but looking at it all as a whole thrust is definitely an interesting perspective. What is the over-arching agenda of American politics?


"We are five days away from Fundamentally Transforming America." Barak Hussein Obama

The Apollo Alliance helped pen the Stimulus Bill - they have ties to both the neocons, Bush, Cheney, military interests and Jim Jones, co-founder of the Weather Underground.

“This legislation is the first step in building a clean energy economy that creates jobs and moves us closer to solving our enormous energy and environmental challenges,” said Senator Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat and Senate Majority Leader. “We’ve talked about moving forward on these ideas for decades. The Apollo Alliance has been an important factor in helping us develop and execute a strategy that makes great progress on these goals and in motivating the public to support them.” - Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid

The Apollo Alliance and it's neocon connections: Apollo Alliance: the illusion of a techno-fix links with the Bush's, Cheney, and the military.

YouTube - Glenn Beck - Tree Of Revolution

YouTube - Glenn Beck - Tree of Revolution 9/18/09 Part 2/5

YouTube - Glenn Beck - Tree of Revolution 9/18/09 Part 3/5

YouTube - Glenn Beck - Tree of Revolution 9/18/09 Part 4/5

YouTube - Glenn Beck - Tree of Revolution 9/18/09 Part 5/5

The Weater Underground: Weather Underground Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SDS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student...0_organization)

The New Left:
New Left - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Old Left:
Old Left - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bill Ayers, former terrorist, currently professor at U of Illinois Chicago, member of Weather Underground with Jeff Jones:
Bill Ayers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jeff Jones, currently with the Apollo Group:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Jones_(activist)

Jim Jones, athiest, San Francisco activist, mass murderer:
Jim Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Van Jones, founder of STORM, currently with the Apollo Group:
Van Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

STORM:
Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"STORM initially included anarchists, communists and revolutionary nationalists, but after some internal, personal struggles the anarchists left, and STORM become more communist-oriented."

Mao Zedong - considered to be STORM's ideological leader: Mao Zedong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ACORN:
Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SEIU:
Service Employees International Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Roosevelt's New Deal:
New Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NAFTA:
North American Free Trade Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Progressivism:
Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[siryessir08]

Aren't we already kind of a a socialist society.

I mean, we aren't exactly a capitalist society. In fact, we're not capitalist at all. Public parks, public roads, public schools, social security, welfare, governments loans and grants for all kinds of ****...
I mean, health care is just one more thing to add to the list of our already socialist society.

I think that America over the next so many years will continue to be more like Europe...progressing farther and farther into socialism. It's an inevitability... a capitalist society is just way too unstable.


Republicans and Democrats have both brought us closer to socialism. Under every administration, no matter what the party, government grows.

I doubt the government is trying to increase the welfare state...as it means a lower GDP at the end of the day. But democrats might become more and more sympathetic to how many people qualify for welfare, and how much they get. I really wish that republicans would actually reduce the size of government, and cut welfare substantially.

I think the change that we voted exactly what we voted for... Obama has stayed true to his word.

[Brutha]

Is the government trying to control capitalism?

I think it's rather the other way around, big corporations control the government.

Where do you think America is headed? What will America look like in 10 years? 20? 50?

As things are going at the moment it's very hard to make even a five year prediction.
At the present I don't see that Obama will produce anything that's good enough to please the left.
There will probably be a strong thrid party candidate at the next election.

I think the change that we voted exactly what we voted for... Obama has stayed true to his word.

We stayed true to his promise of waging war in Pakistan and of raising the military budget.
On the other hand he pushes for a law that allows him to imprision people without charges (preventive detention).

His DOJ goes around arguing that the government is immune against lawsuits that deal with illegal wiretapping because the government didn't willfully disclose information about it.
He sacrificed the public option in a deal with big pharma.
He also doesn't really recreated regulation of big banking but put the head of the New York Fed (that gets elected directly by powerful banks) as treasure secretary.
And he gave Bernanke another term as a reward for the good job that the Fed did (mainly crashing the financial system).

[ar81]

Originally Posted by JMan

Where do you think America is headed? What will America look like in 10 years? 20? 50?

A minor power, like Spain. China will be the next USA, center of economics. USA has no more the authority to teach about regulation of financial institutions or about management of economics.

Originally Posted by JMan

Is America really heading toward socialism?

US is outsourcing jobs because Americans are too expensive. So either Americans get as cheap as a chinese, or the only one who might hire Americans will be the government.

Originally Posted by JMan

Is growing unionization a vehicle to progress socialist agendas?

If government favors companies, unions will be stronger. If government favors people, unions will lose power.

Originally Posted by JMan

Is America already a socialist nation that doesn't realize it?

At least it has no capitalism. It creates money out of thin air. Banks insurances and casinos produce nothing. The only way they can make profit is by taking more money than they give back. The ones who pay are those with productive jobs, so it is some kind of financial slavery. A person with debts can't be free.

Originally Posted by JMan

Are the ties back to athiest, communist and New Deal roots of the current administration's political allies something to be concerned about?

I do not think so.

Originally Posted by JMan

Are we seeing the change America voted for?

Getting out of a recession may take 5 to 10 years if belts are tightened. But I see people who do not want their belts to be tightened. Bankers with bonuses, health insurance companies.

Originally Posted by JMan

Is the government trying to increase the welfare state?

Define welfare state.

Originally Posted by JMan

Is the government trying to control capitalism?

Specific groups with interests (companies) control capitalism when they do lobbying.

Originally Posted by JMan

Has this movement been carried forward through several administrations, both Republican and Democrat?

You have the results of the economics designed by the two parties. Either as the ruling party or as opposition, parties allowed the current state of things.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by JMan

Where do you think America is headed? What will America look like in 10 years? 20? 50?

I agree with ar81. America will go back to being a minor power. Asia is becoming the new center of the world, much faster than the politics and the media seem to realize.

Originally Posted by JMan

Is America really heading toward socialism?

No. Socialism ≠ Social democracy.

Originally Posted by JMan

Is growing unionization a vehicle to progress socialist agendas?

Again, no.

Originally Posted by JMan

Is America already a socialist nation that doesn't realize it?

No! I really wish people looked up the definition of socialism and stopped throwing that term around. There hasn't been a single socialist nation on Earth since the early days of the USSR.

Originally Posted by JMan

Are the ties back to athiest, communist and New Deal roots of the current administration's political allies something to be concerned about?

Eh?

Originally Posted by JMan

Are we seeing the change America voted for?

Unfortunately not.

Originally Posted by JMan

Is the government trying to increase the welfare state?

I certainly hope so. Today's US welfare programs are the shame in the developped world. It's also, amazingly, the only country where religious ideas were reclaimed by the hard right. Everywhere else in the world, Christians in politics support a kind of "christian-socialism", or "christian-welfare", based around the idea of helping the needy. Only in the US can you see the opposite trend...

Originally Posted by JMan

Is the government trying to control capitalism?

Yes, of course. Like all goverments in the world. A true capitalist world has no use for borders. All states use protectionism (typically not capitalistic behaviour) when it was to their advantage.

Originally Posted by JMan

Has this movement been carried forward through several administrations, both Republican and Democrat?

Yes... see above.

Originally Posted by JMan

What is the over-arching agenda of American politics?

Politicians try to maintain a semblance of status quo, because they have power today. The real changes will not be political.

[garentee]

If you are getting your information from the likes of Glenn Beck, you may want to look at other sources. I am particularly bothered by the fact that that which he rails about is essentially what the Bush administration pulled off. I am not a very political person, however I do know that Bush and company looted the entire country of a whole lot of money in various sinister ways. The idea that it is somehow only a radical left wing element that wishes America to look different is pretty much untrue. The difference between America now and 20 years ago makes it really indistinguishable to what it once was. Frankly I think that the sickest thing going on right now is this insanity over Obama..The smear tactics of the right are just plain disgusting and demonstrate the absolute unhealthy state of America as a society. The OP is part of this problem and I for one think that the OP has been reading an entirely large amount of rhetoric from people who are very dangerous to America. A lot of what I sense is coming from these folks is a general dislike of Obama because he is Black.. and it is disguised as political in nature. What the heck ever became of the great melting pot that is America? We are becoming the people who our earlier generations fled from.. as in op;pressors. I do not subscribe to left or right wing politics or to any alternative type parties... when I vote I vote for the person who I think is the better person for America. I voted for Obama because Mccain stood for more of the same of what the last 8 years brought us. We are still seeing the effects of George Bush and will for at least another few years. Obama is trying to right the ship... Bush and Co brought far more damage to the economy etc than any other administration in a few generations.
So where is America going to be? That is up to us.. Build your community up. Buy from local sources, support your neighbors... Make your neighborhood safe.. Then get involved in local organizations that bolster the local economy. The truth of the matter is if everybody was more involved in local politics wee would have a stronger country. I know I am definitely part of the problem with regards to politics. We have a better chance of making inroads with local politics than the national scene. I am optimistic about the future..I think a lot of people are fed up with the sick shape our society is in.. It is totally up to us.. and NOT our leaders.

[James81]

The interesting thing about living in America is that the people living on either extreme get the best deal from the government.

What I mean is that the poor (or lower class) gets the benefits of socialism and all that comes with it (free healthcare, welfare, no taxes, etc.) whereas the rich (upper class) gets the benefit of making the laws and charting the direction of our country without having to contribute to the socialist practices that they instill.

As a class in America, the middle class is about as ****ed a group as there is.

[JMan]

Originally Posted by garentee

I am not a very political person, however I do know that Bush and company looted the entire country of a whole lot of money in various sinister ways. The idea that it is somehow only a radical left wing element that wishes America to look different is pretty much untrue.

I agree - Bush was a very liberal spender and progressed us further down the path of socialism and debt, getting us into 2 wars, spending obscene amounts of taxpayers money, doing nothing to stop illegal immigration, promoting 'a house for everyone' just like Clinton did, associating with the Apollo Alliance and special interests just like Obama is, bumping up Federal Spending at an alarming rate: Under Bush, Federal Spending Increases at Fastest Rate in 30 Years: News Releases: The Independent Institute

"From the massive increases in agricultural subsidies in the farm bill of 2002, to the new Medicare prescription drug entitlement of 2003; from the 47% increase in the defense budget, to the 80% increase in education spending, George W. Bush has demonstrated that “limited government” is not part of his political vocabulary."

Farms, Pharma, Defense, and Education - he spent massive amounts in these areas, sending America into near non-recoverable debt. Hardly the mark of conservative spending.

Then on the flip side, he thought he could sate the public with tax breaks, which Obama has pledged to let die out to help the government recover some much needed cash.

In light of Bush's record spending I posed the question:

"Has this movement been carried forward through several administrations, both Republican and Democrat?"

Bush's spending was 5 times that of Clinton: Bush spending up to 5 times more than Clinton Does that strike you as a conservative spending approach?

I'm wondering if there is a 'grand design' no matter who is the POTUS.

Bush mingled with some of the same social groups Obama is as well.

Also, you may remember Bush Sr.'s famous quote "Read my lips, no new taxes!" What a bunch of B.S. (Bulls#!+, not Bush Sr.) All lies.

Now, with Obama, he's continuing Bush's wars, continuing Bush's record spending, continuing Bush's Gitmo, continuing Bush's special interest influence, reneging on cornerstone campaign promises.

It just seems the whole game is rigged and it doesn't matter who's in charge. But I am curious to see who is influencing all the decision and policy making - I thought Congress wrote the bills, not special interest groups like Apollo Is it true that Apollo and Van Jones wrote the Stimulus plan and Apollo is owned by G Soros, and who is? - Yahoo! Answers If that's true, who is really running the country? It should be 'We the People', not 'We the Corporations' or 'We the Special Interests'

Where is Hope and Change taking us?

[Strem2]

Socialism is not the result of massive debt. In America unionization empowers the working class which strengthens the middle class which prevents socialism. Socialism occurs when there is an extreme spread between the top incomes and the bottom incomes and not a strong middle class.

Here is the truth about the deficit and income spread in America since 1940. Trends by Mindbridge

Here are the truths debunking Glenn Beck.

[JMan]

Originally Posted by garentee

If you are getting your information from the likes of Glenn Beck, you may want to look at other sources. I am particularly bothered by the fact that that which he rails about is essentially what the Bush administration pulled off.

Beck appearantly railed then too: Newsmax.com - Glenn Beck: Bush's Compassionate Conservatism Must 'Die Violent Death'

And now: Uncouth Ruminations: Is Glenn Beck Healthy for the Right?

Even against McCain: BLACK POLITICAL BUZZ....: Glenn Beck Criticizes McCain, "Worse Than Obama"...GOP Radio Host Rips Beck

Beck, at least, seems to be getting results on the corruption front with some real digging into who is running our government and what exactly do they want to do with it: Glenn Beck wins round 1 - The Hill's Pundits Blog - if there's another, maybe Olberman or Matthews or Blitzer who start digging as hard as they did into all the corruption with Haliburton - go for it! Weed out the bad apples. But dig harder - last I checked, they didn't get any results with Haleburton, Cheny, etc.

And how did Bush pull it off? I say our media didn't press enough. They were able to get rid of Rumsfeld, and maybe a couple of generals, but then they quit digging - they didn't make the down to earth chalk board talk connections like Beck is doing. Gitmo - the Press failed - still open, even under Obama - close it! Outrageous spending by Bush - the Press failed - even more so now under Obama - stop the spending! 2 wars by Bush - the Press failed - maintained by Obama - stop the wars! Special Interests - well, look at that chalkboard! Open borders & our illegal immigration problem - still a problem under Obama - stop illegal immigration!

A lot to do, but there's still more for the press to uncover here - it's not over - they need to PRESS!!!! As the Press, together, and not just one man. It better not stop at all his #1 book and TV ratings and measly community organizing events like the Tea Parties. These other guys could have all the ratings and sales they want, just attack corruption - please. Real results will keep happening when they demand answers to questions, and keep questioning - that's the media's job. Communist Van Jones and Acorn can just be the start of some real change and housecleaning.

But not when the President is soft balled on EVERY single one of his 7 or so weekend interviews and given the same scripted questionaire. Dig already. Challenge. Press. Ask a follow up question. Think.

Oh, and 5 sources were actually the continuation of 1 broadcast - 15 sources were from Wikipedia - 1 source was from Oil Empire

[Brutha]

Now, with Obama, he's continuing Bush's wars, continuing Bush's record spending, continuing Bush's Gitmo, continuing Bush's special interest influence, reneging on cornerstone campaign promises.

Obama's policy really doesn't differ much from Bushs in a lot of important areas.
[quote]Glenn Beck is a bit strange and says crazy things from time to time.
On the other hand, maybe strange times need strange people.

In these times there's not enough populism.
The status quo is broken and it needs energy to change it.

It's interesting how it will play out.

[tonyw]

Bush and Obama epitomize the reason I am an Independent. I am tired of party politics, political action committees, lobbyists, and everything else coming out of Washington. I did several papers in college about PACS and their influence in the decision making process, including the "gifts" bestowed on various Senators and Congressmen and their families. Somehow I don't believe our Founding Fathers had this New America envisioned. If government is truly "Of the People, By the People, and For the People," then it's nothing more than an extension of our own greed, desires, etc. The fact our government is corrupt isn't as troubling as the fact we as a country have allowed it to happen, and we continue to let it spiral out of control. The mud slinging from both sides of the aisle has become ridiculous.

[Excellent Lodestar]

Some days i wake up glad I'm Advaitan, because it looks like things are gonna end badly.
a complete bottoming out and starting all over again. the "bad" guys are getting bolder by the day. what's funny is I don't even know who the bad guys are anymore; up is down, light is dark

We have no power; as long as Americans have their Satellite TV, they;ll put up with anything, and the power knows this.if it weren't so sad, it would be funny.
get the popcorn enjoy the show because here it comes.