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08-08-2009, 06:24 PM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 814
 |  Health Care Reform in any form????
I am 100% for Health Care Reform - but am I for just anything that is passed under that title? Today I received an email from a conservative friend. I am passing this on without doing due diligence. But it has sparked a reminder that I must make some effort to read the fine print. This is a letter written by Dr. Stephen Fraser to Senator Bayh. If you would like to send it on to your Congressman, he says to feel free to copy it and send it around to your friends and to senators and representatives. July 23, 2009 Senator Bayh, As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the healthcare bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a healthcare system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed. I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens. Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!! Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get. Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!! Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice! Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued! Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to you ur banks accounts for elective funds transfer. Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN). Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange. Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare! Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens. Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan. Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed. Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice. Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly. Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary) Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE! Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll. Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll. Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income. Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay) Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records. Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that! Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected. Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same! Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans. Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries. Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs. Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing! Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions. Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you. Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own! Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand. Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!! Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing. Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan. Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable! Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Comittee. Can you say HC by phone? Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients. Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory! Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide ) Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends. Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates. Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT! Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life! Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!? Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN? Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage. Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services. Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating. Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election. Respectfully, Stephen E Fraser MD |
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08-08-2009, 07:41 PM
| #2 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 989
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That's the whip-the-masses-into-a-panicked-frenzy Republican BS letter that has been circulating. They have not countered with any bill that is reasonable or doable in the 25 years that healthcare reform has been pondered. Their biggest fear is not that healthcare will be destroyed, or the American people will be hurt, it's that Barack Obama, their worst nightmare, will succeed in doing what they haven't even tried to do and hence be elevated to an even higher pedestal than the one he already occupies. This is a smear campaign and not even a subtle one. Anyone who falls for this anti-hype is something I can't say in public. They are doing exactly what they did to ruin Clinton. Take some situation and blow it out of proportion. Use the ever willing media to rocket their crap propaganda to the stratosphere. At the same time pretending that we haven't wasted more American money than healthcare reform will cost on ridiculous, unwinnable, personal agenda driven wars under their regimes. Jennifer |
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08-09-2009, 01:25 AM
| #3 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 323
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I just wanted to point out that people can look up the actual bill here: THOMAS (Library of Congress) Edit: Here's a direct link to the bill: H.R.3200 (I guess I might as well leave in the search instructions I wrote before finding that link, just in case that link breaks or something. Instructions you probably won't need: type "HR3200" in the search box, and click the little round button next to "Bill Number" below the search box, then click "Search". Then, click the link that says "Text of Legislation" to see the table of contents of the bill, which has links to the bill's text. Annoyingly, the links that result from searches appear to be only temporary links, judging by the error message it sometimes gives me when I try to go back to them - "Search results are only retained for a limited amount of time.Your search results have either been deleted, or the file has been updated with new information." So, I'm not sure how you're supposed to obtain or create permanent links to particular sections of the bill. The above permanent-seeming direct link, I just found on the front page of the THOMAS site). Here's a direct link to the PDF file of the bill. The PDF file has page numbers and line numbers, unlike the web-viewable version of the bill. The PDF file is about 1.8 MB large, and it has 1017 pages. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3200ih.txt.pdf When you download it, you might have to change the file name from "getdoc.cgi" to a file name which ends in ".pdf", like "hr3200.pdf". Otherwise, you might have some trouble opening the file, since your computer might not recognize that it's a PDF file. Right now, I don't really feel like looking up all the pages and line numbers mentioned, or commenting on the bill, but, I just thought I'd point this stuff out, for anyone who does want to discuss the bill or take a first-hand look. Unless I'm mistaken, works of the U.S. government can't be put under copyright, so people should be able to quote as much as they want, if they want to discuss any specific passages. U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright Law: Chapter 1 Quote:
Apollia Last edited by Apollia; 08-09-2009 at 06:59 AM. Reason: Updated/rewrote a bit after noticing a link I overlooked | |
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08-09-2009, 04:01 AM
| #4 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,756
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The health care transaction is "pay me or die". So it is like a ransom. Ship ransom prices do not get down even if you have many pirates. Illness is the real business of medical industry. The more ill you are, the more money they make. Insurance business is not to cover those who are ill. So in the end insurances are useless. So you pay for basically nothing, and when you are ill, the entire cost, plus some profit is passed to you in a medical bill. The business of health is not health. You exchange life for money, so it is a ransom. Everything I have seen in official means suggests me that the reform will try to ressemble british health care system. Of course there is a reason why private health care is in panic. They will have to compete with government for the first time. And private health care in US is plagued with inefficiencies and overheads that translate as health care inflation. So they have a good reason to fear. American citizens are subsidizing health care inefficiencies. Even a poor country like Costa Rica, with people with less than 1/3 of buying power of an average US citizen can afford their almost full government coverage. Costa Rica embraced british model, and has better health care than US for a far cheaper price. Private system exists in Costa Rica and it was not the tragedy they present you. Fear is the tool used to control people. It is logical that people dedicate time to think about conspiracy theories, to feed that fear, to stop a project that is not convenient for them, but convenient for average citizens. Last edited by ar81; 08-09-2009 at 04:20 AM. |
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08-09-2009, 02:26 PM
| #5 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Off this forum from 10/27/10 to 10/27/11. Yay me!
Posts: 2,944
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08-09-2009, 04:54 PM
| #7 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home
Posts: 2,578
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We should not be forced into a healthcare plan that we do not want. I feel like this would be the beginning of something terrible, where the government tells you when you can go to the doctor, whether you are sick or not. This is just yet another way for the government to control the people and seeing how Obama didn't even give the people who were voting on this bill any time to read the 1000-page document, how do we know that it will be effective? It just makes me mad when the government tries to come into our lives and tell us what is best for us. We don't even have a choice. What's next? Mandatory vaccinations? No matter what? I read that they are moving to make Gardasil mandatory for both boys and girls age 12. For a disease that is cleared up by our immine system over 90% of the time and hardly ever causes cervical cancer anymore due to regular checkups. And what is a boy's risk for getting cervical cancer anyway? 0. This country is becoming fascist more and more every day. But I don't blame anyone in particular. I blame the whole country for allowing this to go on for this long and allowing it to progress to this point. |
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08-09-2009, 05:34 PM
| #8 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 989
| Quote:
I'm not being facetious. I'm serious. I see a lot of people using the "we" word but barely any of us seem to agree on what we want... As far as choice, you are basically at the mercy of your HMO to make your choices for you here already unless you have one of the prohibitively expensive options that don't require pre-authorization, in which case they don't allow "pre-existing" conditions to be covered which is a farce and usually hit you with such massive deductibles that people opt out of using the insurance they pay for to avoid having to pay the deductible. Which means it's pure profit for the ever so angelic,so innocent, just-doing-our-jobs insurance providers. You will never be forced to have a vaccination. Unless you want your kids in public school. But that is now. You don't have to wait for Neo-health for that to happen. If people sit as sheep and do not insist on actions that will create the kind of healthcare and government they want, business and government tend to take advantage. Like our current economic mess. It literally happened before our eyes and we just let it happen. The rules that made it possible to almost bankrupt the entire planet in a couple months were accepted blindly by us sheep. If healthcare, under the changes, starts to look facists, we speak up. WE have the right to speak up. The louder we speak, the more they listen. But you cannot have healthcare for everyone, have willynilly free reign to have anything you want done, any time you want and have it cost you nothing. That is fantasy. That is what the Republicans want to try and keep. It's not working. Obama wants reality. Reality that is more fair, not free but not unbearably restrictive. It works in other countries and it can work here. Unless you like babies dying. Grandmas choosing between their food or their medicines. People wholesale abusing the crap out of themselves and expecting medical miracles. Jennifer | |
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08-09-2009, 09:15 PM
| #9 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Boston
Posts: 171
| charles hugh smith-The "Impossible" Healthcare Solution: Go Back to Cash charles hugh smith-More on the "Impossible" Healthcare Solution charles hugh smith-Insurmountable Barriers to Structural Reform charles hugh smith-Healthcare "Reform": Cui Bono--To Whose Benefit? The "impossible" solution... go back to cash! Our problems arise because we are being told that
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08-10-2009, 09:40 AM
| #10 (permalink) | |||
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: east coast, USA
Posts: 1,628
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When I see stuff like this, it comes off as being a huge scare tactic, probably from a conservative republican source. I think Rush Limbaugh was behind this.  Quote:
Lots of scare tactics here. Lots of phrases taken out of context with someone's re-interpretation tacked on. Quote:
Quote:
 There is ALREADY rationing, valuing, budgeting, and penalties in our current system. And with our current system, your entire family goes bankrupt if the spouse who had health insurance was laid off and got sick before he found a new job. Or if the health ins doesn't cover a condition you have or doesn't want to cover a new treatment to save your life. Even if they're supposed to pay, if they drag their feet, you are responsible for all your medical bills -- you need to figure out how to pay the hospital yourself then chase down your insurance company yourself. I've got a friend whose husband was just in a motorcycle accident. In his state, you can pay for motorcycle insurance and it only covers liability not your own medical (he thought he was covered). He's an experienced rider but lost control of the bike and shattered a foot, cracked 4 vertebrae, and broke his arm. It was only about 3 weeks ago, and already their bill is several hundred thousand dollars. This means the potential loss of their home, everything they own, and to be in debt for many years to come. Becoming homeless because a spouse was in an accident!? People think freak accidents, cancer, or heart attacks happen only to other people. It can happen to anyone. I know of a local lady who suddenly came down with lung cancer. She needed a lobe of her lung removed promptly to save her life. The hospital would not even schedule the surgery until she paid them her $6,000 (her portion, not covered by insurance) up front. Imagine having insurance but dying anyway because of a few thousand dollars?! I don't know what the best plan is. I just know we need some sort of reform. | |||
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08-10-2009, 03:51 PM
| #11 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 254
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That email that's been circulating appears to be largely BS. It's a collection of talking points that greatly distort the bill to make it sound awful when it's actually quite good in most cases. For a debunking of each point up to pg. 127, check out this link: PolitiFact | E-mail 'analysis' of health bill needs a check-up They're still deciding on whether to finish examining the email, since the first batch of claims was, on the whole, so blatantly false, but I'm guessing they most likely will, since they've solicited feedback from readers and I'm guessing a lot of readers would like to see all the points investigated. There were a couple of points that are true or partially true, but they either aren't the scary ones, or they aren't scary once the distortion is cleared up. If you want to read what is actually going on, that link is a good place to start. Of course, if you don't trust Politifact, you're also free to follow the link to read the bill itself, posted above by Apollia. |
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08-10-2009, 03:59 PM
| #12 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,756
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I got this email straight from White House. To contact White House: Contact Us Subject: It's time for a reality check Quote:
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08-11-2009, 02:40 PM
| #13 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island, USA
Posts: 1,047
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If you have insurance, you will not notice any changes.
There will be LESS rationing that there is with the for-profit insurance companies! | |
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08-11-2009, 02:46 PM
| #15 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island, USA
Posts: 1,047
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One if the most annoying things about Republican "no" politics, is that first they complain that something is going to be too expensive, and insist that there must be "cost controls" and then they use any explanations that there will be cost controls to complain about "rationing". There's just no pleasing them and the Democrats should just ignore them. I wish Obama weren't such a "bi-partisan". |
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08-11-2009, 03:49 PM
| #16 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island, USA
Posts: 1,047
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 Why do I say that? Simple. They take your money and don't pay for your medical expenses. They are unethical and fraudulent. This is robbery and as long as the government gives us something to stop this, and a way to buy from a not-for-profit, I'll be ecstatic! | |
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08-11-2009, 10:00 PM
| #17 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,756
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Solution: Save your own money, insteadof taking promises that will never be fulfilled. Insurance companies produce nothing, they do not generate value added to the economy, so the only way to make profit is to give you less than you have given to them.
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08-11-2009, 10:53 PM
| #19 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,756
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The inventory of insurance companies is money, and money can't add value to itself. The source of profit comes from collecting more money than they give back to their customers. If they talk about contribution to GDP, GDP is not a measure of growth, just a measure of transactions, and it does not distinguish between good and evil. If you destroy a forest to use it as raw material, your production will add to the GDP, and when government comes to repair the damage, it adds again to the GDP. When 9/11 took place, you had funerals. The expenses of the families for the funerals of the victims added to the GDP. Does it mean that 9/11 attacks can make the economy to grow and contribute to economy? Obviously no. When people get divorced, they pay legal fees that add to the GDP. If a country faces a national security emergency, all security expenses, private or public, add to the GDP. Does it mean that GDP is a good indicator of growth? During cold war it was considered as an ideological truth. But economists have started to question that since long ago. Last edited by ar81; 08-11-2009 at 10:59 PM. | |
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08-12-2009, 03:02 PM
| #20 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island, USA
Posts: 1,047
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I stated that figure and it was from one of Obama's first discussions of health care reform. -- Not a figure on Insurance per se, but of the entire health care industry. It was the reason he gave for not abandoning the system that we have now and going to single payer plan. And, as AR81 says, insurance does not add to the value of our country, however, it is part of our economy. This is a problem we now have when trying to assess our national worth. The GDP figures include many things that don't have clear intrinsic value, such as the financial industry, mortgages and stocks. Employed people do add a kind of value, but it doesn't have the same permanence as it would if we were just adding up the manufactured items such as cars or solar panels. -- You have seen recently how quickly the GDP shrinks when it's counting job value..... At any rate, from the President's point of view, he only wanted to add a public option, (even though we could do much better,) and not destroy the system we now have because it employs so many people. | |
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08-12-2009, 03:12 PM
| #21 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island, USA
Posts: 1,047
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With any luck, you will stay healthy for life and only need the occasional antibiotic or ace bandage. However, some people do develop breast cancer, or melanoma or diabetes or Lou Gehrigs disease, or some such condition at a fairly young age, and some children are born with birth defects that need immediate and costly attention. Here is where an affordable National Health Plan would be very useful! Do you know, in Canada, or United Kingdom, or France, or Australia, or Germany, or almost anywhere else you can think of -- the citizens don't feel like they're playing Russian Roulette with their lives, or worse, with the lives of their dependents..... | |
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08-13-2009, 01:44 PM
| #23 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 303
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2) You do, right? If number 1 is true, number 2 is definitely true. 3) It's national insurance. It shouldn't be thought of as a tax but an insurance premium paid to the government to protect you in times when you need it most. In the UK, national insurance and income tax are treated differently and placed separately on your pay slip. I'll re-iterate my skiing horror story that's floating around the board somewhere: I broke my leg, i got taken to hospital in canada, i had insurance from a company. i couldn't get painkillers til i had given my credit card (despite insurance!) and it was 3 days before they cleared everything with the insurance people and i could have the operation i needed. meanwhile, I was laying in a bed in absolute agony, 24 / 7. Luckily I didn't lose my leg and am walking again, but it was touch and go for a while. In the UK, I'd have been treated as soon as I'd got into hospital. I'd not have had to have paid a penny. The doctor in the UK said that the surgeon had used the most basic metalwork for my leg and that it might not heal. I might have to have the same operation done again in the UK. Since Canada is known for being better than the USA in terms of healthcare (at least for it's citizens) Luckily the bone healed, eventually. It took twice as long as the usual broken leg recovery time. | |
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08-13-2009, 02:09 PM
| #24 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Singapore
Posts: 236
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I just read the attack on Stephen Hawkings and how some brilliant mind as his wouldn't have got there if he had to rely on on a state provided health system aka the NHS - then he corrected them that he is British and wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the NHS! Classic My sister has cerebal palsy and without the NHS wouldn't be able to have her limited walk capacity that she does now. My father is poor and would most definitely be one of the uninsured in the US and thus as she was born 11 weeks premature maybe she wouldn't even be here. I myself had an NHS home birth for my first daughter. Even though I hired a private doula, the NHS midwife came round to visit daily for the first 2 weeks of my babies life. Her assistance was invaluable for me as a first time Mum and didn't cost a penny. |
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08-13-2009, 03:13 PM
| #25 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island, USA
Posts: 1,047
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Thank you chrisrushton and SarahJaynee for your stories. I was arguing with the small business owner of my local Greek Restaurant today. He comes from a country where you never had to pay anything for a drug or a band aide. And, he has given away meals to American seniors who ran out of money at the end of the month because they had to decide between the drugs they thought were saving their lives, and food. Even so, he was arguing that since everyone knows that the government is full of "crooks" that this bill will never pass.... I asked him if there were crooks in the Greek government. He smiled and said, "of course." And then I reminded him that the system works there, somehow.... And, I always have to tell my stories about how private insurance reserves their legal right to rescind your insurance and not cover you even though you've never missed a payment.... |
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08-13-2009, 03:18 PM
| #26 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island, USA
Posts: 1,047
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We already pay for national insurance, and it's called Medicare. It's part of the FICA that is taken out of every paycheck. This doesn't have to be so complicated. Those who opt-in to the public plan would just have a larger FICA contribution. Those who stay with private (un or maybe)insurance would continue doing what they do now and we'd all keep our fingers crossed for them. |
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08-13-2009, 03:31 PM
| #27 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 303
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Consider a case where someone who opts out of the new system but then gets screwed by his insurance company and can't get treatment. What does he do then? He can't get treatment from the government and he can't get it covered on his insurance. He's in a considerably worse situation than if he'd paid a little extra on his national insurance. The whole purpose of the NHS is to provide care for those who need it. Back to my story for another point. I've been having physiotherapy, but I've paid to see a specialist sports physiotherapist. This isn't covered by insurance or by the NHS. I don't technically NEED it, but I think it's worth the extra money I pay because I believe it will help my leg get better, quicker. The NHS won't provide physio for my injury since it isn't necessary. I agree with this too, if everyone was entitled the same level of physio as I have paid for myself, the NHS would be bankrupt. Last edited by chrisrushton; 08-13-2009 at 03:32 PM. Reason: point clearer at the end | |
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08-13-2009, 04:05 PM
| #28 (permalink) | ||
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island, USA
Posts: 1,047
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You have a good point. There is going to have to be a way to allow the recently "uninsured" to buy into or "opt into" the public system quickly. Because, that is the way the private insurance companies kick you out -- quickly, and that is the way that people usually lose their jobs, quickly. I want to mention that there are many lawmakers who will vote against this bill if it doesn't have a public option.... So, if it's too weak, it won't pass and we'll go at it again, perhaps with single payer on the table next time..... But, right now, America is not ready to Quote:
Last edited by Strem2; 08-13-2009 at 04:06 PM. Reason: left out stuff | ||
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08-13-2009, 04:25 PM
| #29 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 303
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the only fair way that i could see for a single payer system to work would be if they paid for everything up front, but that would defeat the purpose of it all anyway. It just isn't fair for the rest who have paid into the system but not used it if someone who's not been paying their share to the "national insurance" can just get the treatments. The only fair, or utilitarian i suppose, way to do it is have everyone pay a certain amount towards it and be able to use it when and where ever they need to You may be right (strem2), america may not be ready to provide care for those who need it. I thought that was what the reform was about though, getting it ready. |
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08-13-2009, 05:21 PM
| #30 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island, USA
Posts: 1,047
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| An Emergency Program of Monetary Reform for the United States | Apollia | World Affairs | 16 | 06-07-2008 09:07 PM |
| My condition and ambiguous health care, a little rant | DeathStorm | Health & Fitness | 12 | 12-11-2007 10:30 PM |
| Dropping out of U.S. Health Care system | jbischke | Health & Fitness | 21 | 09-27-2007 05:57 PM |
| Health Studies Are Worthless to Those Who Care About Health (Blog) | Savage | Steve Pavlina | 33 | 02-12-2007 07:44 AM |
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