Wars of aggression

[Lauxa]

One thing that makes me very depressed it looking at US wars of aggression around the world. I feel guilty that I contribute to this through my taxes and it makes me not want to contribute to the economy. When I think about it, this can be a motivational block to performing my job.

The worst thing is the feeling that I don't have any control over this and yet that I am guilty of supporting it and reaping the benefits (such as cheap oil and abundance of manufactured goods).

Is there anything I can do about this? I could bring people's attention to the issue, but by LoA that may be counterproductive. Same goes for fighting against the people who perpetrate these acts. Is the best answer to just not think about it?

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

Is the best answer to just not think about it?

Not thinking about it can help you feel better about it, since it's not on your mind. As far as ending the actual wars, in my experience, not thinking (ignoring) a problem usually doesn't solve it.

A good way to fight against war is to be a person of peace, a person who would not go to war themselves. If enough people do that, there would be no war. If the U.S. had nobody willing to be a soldier, the government could not go into war. We also may not have the good things that can come from some wars, of course.

[floslib]

I'm with Daffy. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. Taxes, unfortunately, go to a number of things, so neglecting to pay your taxes would also neglect the good things they go towards. Convincing enough of the country to not serve in the armed forces until the wars of aggression stop is a nice idea, but it's not very realistic. If it happened, it would get the point across though.

The most realistic thing you can do, I think, is to create a campaign (or sign onto an existing one) to lobby Congress to end the war. If enough people speak up, and make it known that their representatives' ability to remain in Congress hinges on doing something to end the war, they'll do something to end it.

Of course, this requires getting a large number of people on board, and isn't guaranteed to work. However, it usually does work, because those in Congress are fond of keeping their jobs. Some even really want to do what their constituents want them to do.

The other thing to consider is that we may already be ending the war in Iraq as quickly as we reasonably can. I'll be honest, I don't know enough about the military to know if this is the case or not, but it does seem a reasonable thought. The fact remains that it never should have happened, but since it has happened, we have to leave it in as good condition as we can, and should also do our best to make restitution to them, though I'm not sure that's in the cards given the political situation.

[Brutha]

The worst thing is the feeling that I don't have any control over this and yet that I am guilty of supporting it and reaping the benefits (such as cheap oil and abundance of manufactured goods).

The Iraq war didn't lead to cheap oil.

[JMan]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

One thing that makes me very depressed it looking at US wars of aggression around the world. I feel guilty that I contribute to this through my taxes and it makes me not want to contribute to the economy. When I think about it, this can be a motivational block to performing my job.

Maybe move to Canada and contribute to their tax system instead? Or Mexico?

[Brutha]

Maybe move to Canada and contribute to their tax system instead? Or Mexico?

Canada also has a military that active in Afghanistan.

The other thing to consider is that we may already be ending the war in Iraq as quickly as we reasonably can.

War in it's nature isn't reasonable.

The fact remains that it never should have happened, but since it has happened, we have to leave it in as good condition as we can, and should also do our best to make restitution to them, though I'm not sure that's in the cards given the political situation.

The proper way would be to hold a referendum in Iraq (and Afghanistan) about whether and when to leave and honor that decision.

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by floslib

The other thing to consider is that we may already be ending the war in Iraq as quickly as we reasonably can.

Whatever we're doing in Iraq, we certainly are not ending it ASAP. In fact, our Commander in Chief has decided we are never going to permanently leave during his term, as he plans to retain 50,000 "peacekeepers" (doubleplusgood ones) after we finish pulling out "all" of our troops.

[floslib]

Originally Posted by Brutha

War in it's nature isn't reasonable.

I didn't mean to imply that it was. I meant we have it now, and pulling out in one sudden move could result in more death than pulling out slowly.

Originally Posted by Brutha

The proper way would be to hold a referendum in Iraq (and Afghanistan) about whether and when to leave and honor that decision

Since you mention this, I would agree that yes, this would definitely be the way to do it.

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by floslib

I'm with Daffy. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. Taxes, unfortunately, go to a number of things, so neglecting to pay your taxes would also neglect the good things they go towards.

I could live with that. I am of the opinion that the US Constitution does not grant federal taxation authority on individuals and the whole tax collection racket is illegal. I live in Texas with no state income tax and don't mind paying the state sales tax and property tax to pay for the state-level benefits I receive.

Originally Posted by floslib

Convincing enough of the country to not serve in the armed forces until the wars of aggression stop is a nice idea, but it's not very realistic. If it happened, it would get the point across though.

The most realistic thing you can do, I think, is to create a campaign (or sign onto an existing one) to lobby Congress to end the war. If enough people speak up, and make it known that their representatives' ability to remain in Congress hinges on doing something to end the war, they'll do something to end it.

Of course, this requires getting a large number of people on board, and isn't guaranteed to work.

This strategy would require me to continually focus on the problem and talk about the problem in order to convince enough other people that there is a problem. Isn't that counterproductive to LoA?

Originally Posted by floslib

However, it usually does work, because those in Congress are fond of keeping their jobs. Some even really want to do what their constituents want them to do.

I pretty much can't stand any of my reps in Congress. Better would be to convince people to support someone who was actually a good candidate. At least I'd have a more positive focus.

I did support Ron Paul for president and if he had been elected we'd already be out of Iraq (and all the other countries we are currently occupying) AND the income tax would have been abolished. It was pretty demoralizing to see how poorly he did in the polls.

Originally Posted by floslib

The other thing to consider is that we may already be ending the war in Iraq as quickly as we reasonably can. I'll be honest, I don't know enough about the military to know if this is the case or not, but it does seem a reasonable thought. The fact remains that it never should have happened, but since it has happened, we have to leave it in as good condition as we can, and should also do our best to make restitution to them, though I'm not sure that's in the cards given the political situation.

No, I think the point was to get our military in there forever. The Iraqi Parliament has already asked us to leave.

It's not just the Iraq war that bothers me, it's this whole pattern of aggression. I watched "The Panama Deception" earlier this week and the whole pattern -- villifying Noriega, vowing to "restore democracy" to Panama, swooping in and bombing civilians, staged media coverage of cheering citizens, and a resulting increased US military presence in the region -- seemed eerily familiar. It's so sad.

[Brutha]

I did support Ron Paul for president and if he had been elected we'd already be out of Iraq (and all the other countries we are currently occupying) AND the income tax would have been abolished. It was pretty demoralizing to see how poorly he did in the polls.

You don't change everything by changing the person at the top.
You actually have to go around and convince a lot of people at all corners of society.

This strategy would require me to continually focus on the problem and talk about the problem in order to convince enough other people that there is a problem. Isn't that counterproductive to LoA?

If you for example think that relience on oil produced the war, you could push for local energy resilience.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

One thing that makes me very depressed it looking at US wars of aggression around the world. I feel guilty that I contribute to this through my taxes and it makes me not want to contribute to the economy. When I think about it, this can be a motivational block to performing my job.

The worst thing is the feeling that I don't have any control over this and yet that I am guilty of supporting it and reaping the benefits (such as cheap oil and abundance of manufactured goods).

Is there anything I can do about this? I could bring people's attention to the issue, but by LoA that may be counterproductive. Same goes for fighting against the people who perpetrate these acts. Is the best answer to just not think about it?

Lauxa, maybe your life purpose is to help bring consciousness about the insanity of war! You could start up a blog, write a book or start doing public conferences. Does the prospect of being able to change people's lives for the better in this way this excite you?

I had the idea once of researching what taxes go into and refusing to pay for the things I disagree with, so as to highlight that we don't live in such a democracy after all. It'd be a stunt, though. The only way it'd make sense would be to have a large following and do this with a lot of publicity, in order to make waves.

Though, seeing as I disagree with the health and education systems too.................

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

This strategy would require me to continually focus on the problem and talk about the problem in order to convince enough other people that there is a problem. Isn't that counterproductive to LoA?

When Martin Luther King did his "I have a dream" speech, he dreamt:

• ...that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."
  
• ...that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
  
• ...that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
  
• ...that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
  
• ...that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

He was speaking up against racism, wasn't he?

But I think he did manage to get quite a lot of positive intentions in there anyhow.

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by Brutha

If you for example think that relience on oil produced the war, you could push for local energy resilience.

That is a good practical idea. I think more local reliance on as many resources as possible would decrease people's desire to go meddle in foreign economies.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

One thing that makes me very depressed it looking at US wars of aggression around the world. I feel guilty that I contribute to this through my taxes and it makes me not want to contribute to the economy. When I think about it, this can be a motivational block to performing my job.

The worst thing is the feeling that I don't have any control over this and yet that I am guilty of supporting it and reaping the benefits (such as cheap oil and abundance of manufactured goods).

Is there anything I can do about this? I could bring people's attention to the issue, but by LoA that may be counterproductive. Same goes for fighting against the people who perpetrate these acts. Is the best answer to just not think about it?

Wars are about money, some people make lots of money. They use people's violence to turn otherwise likely friends into enemies.

You did not cause those wars. It was politicians and company executives.

By paying taxes you are not "contributing", you are paying their salaries. If you imagine your country as a big company and taxpayers as investors, it is clear that presidents and Federal Reserve chairmen are CEOs who should be held accountable before shareholders. But historically country CEOs think the company was made for personal profit, for personal amusement, and investors do not know they are the boss, not the CEO.

So in such a disfunctional company, how do you think things should be fixed? Audit the company. Become an auditor, taxes you pay entitle you to the right to audit. They may not like it, because they are used to use the company for their personal amusement and personal profit. But the fact that they do not like it does not take away the need of fixing the way the company works.

If a CEO does a poor job, investors will suffer a crisis. So it is important to audit them.

Just like companies, countries also may need good administration. This is why government was invented.

You may think you are insignificant to make a difference. But that's wrong. You have millions of people, many of them go from home to work only, some are kids and some are elders who won't do anything. Some are busy with different forms of entertainment that keeps them from doing anything that makes a difference.

So in the end there are a few people making a positive or negative difference. So every action you do, makes a difference that is bigger than you thought.

[Double]

Dont feel guilty. You are forced to pay your taxes. It was never your choice, and the system is not designed to make your choice matter. You have absolutely no role in this.
But if you believe you can make a difference, why arent you at least trying? Maybe this is what you feel guilty about?

Keep seeking the truth, it is about the best thing you can do for yourself, and in turn everyone else. Speak it, and hear it you must.

[MariconesUnited]

Why do men start wars? To secure resources and to profit personally, regardless of outside consequences. Why do they want to secure resources and money to themselves? Because they believe in materialist ideals. They believe that having more means having more inner peace, joy and bliss. Why do they believe that? Because they believe in material possession. And why do they believe in that? Because it's the world that they were born in.

And since they believe that having more wealth means having more happiness, they believe that having less leads to having less happiness. So to have more you need to either take someone else's property or exploit someone else's efforts. Which leads to a world of inevitable inequality. Which leads to a world where all men are not created equal. As long as we hold these false beliefs there will be war, violence, hatred and conflict. All of these beliefs manifest themselves from our own identification to the ego. So the first step is to identify the ego for what it is and to stop empowering it. A good book to help you with that is Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now

To me that book is a guide to my own inner conscience. It is a path to enlightenment. It is also the crucial first step. The second step is to convince others of the error of the identification to the ego and what it leads to. It is absolutely crucial that we expel these unneeded forms of negativity from within before we go on about changing the world around us. You must be the change you want to see in the world.

Once you've done that, you can show people what a world free of the identification to the ego could look like. Jacque Fresco is already doing that.

1. Identification of the ego and its mechanisms.
2. Inner peace.
3. Outer Peace.

[Double]

Wars only happen when the costs can be externalized. Behind every war, behind all the destruction and misery, someone actually gained something. It is correct that wars happen for profit, but only if war option, is more profitable than other humane means.
In order to end war, one must remove the tools for them to happen. The tool that allows people to externalize the costs, and centralize profits. Which is taxation. You cannot opt out, you are forced to pay for war, which in turn is why it happens.
Imagine a private company trying to build an army invade and oppress people. Its just not going to work, no-one is going to support such a thing voluntarily. And it is very expensive.