How Sarah Palin Changed my Life

[Seraph]

Hey,

There are a lot of really good responses in this thread, but I'd have to say that the one that I agree with the most would be #11. If you have a good friend that you have to watch what you say around, then that's not really a friend, that's an acquaintance.

I do believe that you have to be tolerant and kind, but also truthful. If you have friends who can't tolerate and be kind to you when you share the truth of who you are, then I don't really believe that they are people worth spending a lot of time worrying about. Of course, you did pick a topic that most people either don't care about or are incredibly passionate about.

There are lots of comments about how you did the incorrect thing, or how you had a need to be right that was greater than your need to be tolerant and there is some wisdom to be taken from comments like this. However, if you have a 'friend' who is willing to kick you out of her house for an opinion, then I'd argue, as above, that that's not really a friend.

Your idea about the essay would have gone down like a lead balloon and may have provided you with more amusing stories, but I really can't fault you for any of your behavior (not that the validation of a person you've never met before should really count for a lot).

It sounds like you've had a really thought provoking experience and for that at least you should be eternally grateful. Also, thanks for sharing your experience. I enjoyed reading about it, as well as the subsequent comments.

Seraph.

[Beuford]

It's probably one of my top wishes that people weren't so taken up by political beliefs and didn't argue by raising their voices to sound intimidating and angry. I like to discuss things sure but when I see adults sitting around with alcohol arguing politics and talking over each other I get the feeling, do they really know for sure what they are saying is right or do they just like to argue a point. Still, when it happens, they finish with some pleasant goodbyes and see each other again soon.

I think you over reacted a bit with that kind of language and saying it several times, so it's no wonder she over reacted by telling you to leave. But really, it shouldn't have ruined your friendship. Political beliefs shouldn't wreck relationships. I don't like the way politics tear people appart but apparently, most people like to take a side and fight for it even if they have no idea or if they just interpret what was shown on the news. Thanks for sharing this story. It reminded me how much I hate politics.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by YourHumbleNarrator

Considering what happened I think it's unlikely there would be any way to salvage it no matter how eloquent the attempt.

But that's beside the point. The topic poster wasn't looking for pointers on how to revive the friendship, and she wasn't asking for opinions about whether she was right or wrong in how she handled it. Let her handle her own affairs.

NotsoHumbleNarrator,

I agree with you that its unlikely that its salvageable. I also think that I personally wouldn't want a friend like this however the poster said themselves that they were almost obsessed with the situation.

Joylangtry asked for feedback about the situation and also about how she handled it. I addressed both so are you sure she wasn't asking for feedback?

"Let her handle her own affairs" you say? So you're saying for me to mind my own business while not minding your own? I didn't ask for your feedback yet you offered yours so why does that preclude me from giving her feedback under your ideology?

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Some people take life too seriously. Just because you think a political figure is a moron does not mean you should lose a friend over it. Your friend is very close-minded and fearful, as you said. Those Republicans crack me up. Not all of them, just the ones who can't keep an open mind and see things the way they are.

There are plenty of close minded and fearful Democrats.

Republicans base ideology is: Conservatism
Democrats base ideology is: Liberalism

There are issues that require Conservatism and issues that require Liberalism in reality.

Since we have two parties we are forced to choose the best party for the time or really choose the lesser of two evils. Although I have voted Republican and Democratic over the years I'm not convinced that either party has the right formula.

I do think that if you believe that your own party has ALL the answers then you are closed minded to the truth.

Its interesting that in life your opposition is often what defines you.

There would be no Democratic party without the Republican party and vice versa.

Swing voters that are non loyal punish administrations for wrong actions. The Republican party didn't have things right and they lost this recent election. Now the Democratic party must do a good job or face loosing office.

Only through opposition do you really build character. That works for individuals as well as collective groups.

[JSB]

I don't think this is really about how much of a moron Sarah Palin is or isn't.

This is about your friend feeling disrespected in her own home. Perhaps she was passionate about Palin, and you calling Palin a moron may have felt like a personal attack. After all, if I passionately support a moron, must I not be a moron myself? (Isn't this the transitive property of verbal abuse?) Maybe she just felt you were being rude, coming into her house and aggressively promoting your politics (a known subject of disagreement between you) without any regard for the situation and the other people involved.

So yes, it's possible that she stridently believes Obama supporters are traitors and radicals, but she wasn't yelling "Obama loves terrorists". More likely, she felt insulted by your lack of respect for her opinions (and her right to have her own opinions) and your strident attitude. There is a time and a place for everything. A dinner at someone's home is not the time to rant about the evils of the host's candidate.

I think it is sad that someone would allow a friendship to dissolve over something like this, but put yourself in her shoes for a moment and ask yourself if you would want to remain friends with someone who came to your your house, aggressively and repeatedly insulted something or someone you liked, and implied you were a moron (I know you didn't mean to, but maybe that's how she felt.).

Is it salvageable? Perhaps. You may want to consider a heartfelt apology with a large dose of empathy (and no ego). If done right, preferably in person, it could at least open a conversation about where to go from there.

[Still Growing]

JSB,
I agree with you. Scroll up and read my post but then check out HumbleNarrator's response.

He told me "she didn't ask for feedback, let her handle her own affairs".

[joylangtry]

Wow.

I woke up this morning expecting this post to be buried. I appreciate all the responses.

Yes, I was looking for feedback. Thank you for all the comments.

I think I will write a letter. I don't know if Trudy will read it, but at least I will feel better about myself, and find some closure. All those who stressed that I was too concerned about being right, I hear you.

I know now that sober dialog over really important issues is critical. If I had only started the evening by asking Trudy, "How do you feel about Sarah?", all she would have had to do is say, "I love her, she's great", and I would have said no more. So that's one lesson learned.

Also for those who pointed out my hypocrisy in saying I could be sending Sarah Palin love while I am continuing to espouse my negative views.... point taken.

And @gocatholic: wow, your first post here was in this thread. Thanks for the link. I was hoping that there would be a few folks who would respond if I really bothered them. Thank you.

I would share one final opinion of my own: We choose to take offense. When someone gives offense, we can decide to take offense and feel anger, fear and hatred. Or, we can forgive and love, and let the offending action or remark bounce off us. I'd been feeling that Trudy took offense at my comment when she could have overlooked it and chosen to focus on her love for me as a friend. I recognize now that I've been hanging on to my own taking offense at her asking me to leave. A-ha!

The people closest to me, the few with whom I shared this experience, all were supportive of me, and said she was being ridiculous. I felt that there was no objectivity, and I thank you all here for providing some.

And either you all totally got my irony in my choice of subject name, or you missed it. Each of us are fully responsible for our own life changes. Ms. Palin was merely a tool in this case.

[Daffy Duck]

"Moron" or not, Palin doesn't bother me too much.

[Angela]

Hey, Joy... I can understand your feeling vehemently about the subject. And what you're talking about sounds like it has less to do with world politics than it does your own ability to be effective in any situation -- relationship, politics, any area in which you want to communicate effectively.

From what I've read of your posts, I think you are an excellent communicator, one who is responsible and caring. And I think that one thing -- namecalling -- is a powerful underminer for people who are otherwise really effective communicators. That's one reason I keep a sharp eye out for namecalling here on the forums, and went so far as to campaign against allowing it regarding non-present third parties, including certain politicians who shall remain nameless (let's just say you and I share some sentiments, politically speaking.)

Because namecalling just shuts down communication dead. It sucks freedom and love from a conversation like a vacuum cleaner.

There's just nowhere to go, solutions-wise, with a f*cking moron, you know? If a person IS that, then there's nothing to do, no conversation to be had, that can make a positive difference; the only implied solution is assassination or *poof*ing them out of existence, and those aren't exactly positive solutions, are they? You realize that SP is a human being, doing the best she can with the resources she has, and that there are others who share her philosophies. So your friend was in an awkward position -- especially if she is a person who identifies with her beliefs, as it sounds like she is. Like most people. As someone in this thread was saying, your friend probably heard you saying that SP's beliefs and actions mean that SP is a f*cking moron, and since the friend is aligned with SP's beliefs and actions, well, that means that the friend is a f*cking moron, as well. If you heard your dinner guest tell you that YOU are a f*cking moron three times, dripping with vitriol, would you still serve her dessert?

I wouldn't apologize for your political opinions, but it seems to me that if you were to clean things up with your friend about having murdered communication between the two of you, you could get to a new level of power and effectiveness in at least a couple of areas:

1 -- you could revive your friendship; and
2 -- you could learn new ways of expressing your political convictions that would actually make a positive difference in the world.

...and just as a personal development sidetrip, you might get some value out of looking boldly at why SP reactivates for you so deeply -- I mean: what old pain specifically has you feeling such negative emotion? ("oh, I don't know, Angela, maybe it's because she's such a f*cking moron!!" ) But in my experience, if you're having a big negative emotion about someone, it's not just them -- it's a reminder of and a trigger for old, stored-up negative emotion. Otherwise you might evaluate it, respond without getting upset, and take strong action to counter it; do you see what I mean. There's always an opportunity when someone pushes your button.

And there's also always cultivating new friendships with people who don't identify so much with their beliefs.

Anyway, blah blah blah. Thanks for listening to my long post. I'm talking to myself as much as I am to you.

[YourHumbleNarrator]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

NotsoHumbleNarrator,

"Let her handle her own affairs" you say? So you're saying for me to mind my own business while not minding your own? I didn't ask for your feedback yet you offered yours so why does that preclude me from giving her feedback under your ideology?

Point taken. I apologize; it was wrong of me to impose.

[Dreamline]

Oh, lookie....Palin's just announced she's not running for governer again. Time to crank up the Presidential Campaign Machine.

Muuahhhh...all is going according to my plan.

Jennifer

[Daffy Duck]

Has Palin announced plans to run in 2012? America would need to have a major paradigm shift to even consider her. She was the joke of the last election.

[cylon]

You haven't learned anything from this discussion, have you.

[Daffy Duck]

Just asking a simple question. I hope she runs again. She was hot stuff! And the way she poked fun at herself on Saturday Night Live was genius.

But ah, I do see you're a Palin supporter. And that's okay. No one's perfect.

[Angela]

She's not just not running for a second term. She quit and is not finishing out her first term.

Well, if she runs for president, maybe Dan Quayle will be her running mate.

[cylon]

Lolz Dan Quayle, the media said he was stupid, lolz. So he must be stupid lolz. "Potatoe" lolz.

Lolz. So much love and light here.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

"Potatoe" lolz.

Yes, and that wasn't even my favorite one:

The holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history.… No, not our nation's, but in World War II. I mean, we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century, but in this century's history.

I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future.

You take the UNCF model that what a waste it is to lose one's mind or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.

....but his dumb-sounding remarks weren't what I was referring to (entirely). He's also a good match for her because he'll understand what she's been through, having been a surprising and controversial (but successful!) vice presidential running mate himself; the "main street" appeal thing and family values; the looks (Daffy thinks Sarah is hot; I think it's only fair to give the ladies some eye candy); and that whole comparing themselves to former presidents thing.

But now that you mention it... It is pretty funny to imagine the U.S. image in the world with a Palin/Quayle administration in place, and the things they'd be saying. Well, funny in a sad way.

"Mind your P's and Q's!" could be their running slogan!

[Angela]

.... is that he'll make Sarah seem relatively well-spoken:

• "Hawaii has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is in the Pacific. It is a part of the United States that is an island that is right here."
  
• "You all look like happy campers to me. Happy campers you are, happy campers you have been, and, as far as I am concerned, happy campers you will always be."
  
• "El Salvador is a democracy so it's not surprising that there are many voices to be heard here. Yet in my conversations with Salvadorans, I have heard a single voice."
  
  
• "I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy -- but that could change."
  
• "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
  
• "I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
  
• "We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world."
  
• "We have a firm commitment to NATO. We are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
  
• "I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix."
  
• "My friends, no matter how rough the road may be, we can and we will, never, never surrender to what is right."
  
• "I deserve respect for the things I did not do."
  
• "I feel that this is my first year, that next year is an election year, that the third year is the mid point, and that the fourth year is the last chance I'll have to make a record since the last two years; I'll be a candidate again. Everything I do in those last two years will be posturing for the election. But right now I don't have to do that."
  
• "This President is going to lead us out of this recovery."
  
• "We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
  
• "For NASA, space is still a high priority."
  
• "[The U.S. victory in Gulf War was a] stirring victory for the forces of aggression."
  
• "Bank failures are caused by depositors who don't deposit enough money to cover losses due to mismanagement."
  
• "Welcome to President Bush, Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts."
  
• "Mars is essentially in the same orbit. Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If there is oxygen, then we can breathe."
  
• "The future will be better tomorrow."
  
• "People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have tremendous impact on history."
  
• "Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it."
  
• "We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made."
  
• "One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Vice President, and that one word is 'to be prepared.'"
  
• "Let me just tell you how thrilling it really is, and how, what a challenge it is, because in 1988 the question is whether we're going forward to tomorrow or whether we're going to go past to the -- to the back!"
  
• "The loss of life will be irreplaceable."
  
• "Bobby Knight told me this: 'There is nothing that a good defense cannot beat a better offense.' In other words a good offense wins."
  
• "It's wonderful to be here in the great state of Chicago."
• "This isn't a man who is leaving with his head between his legs."
• "Unfortunately, the people of Louisiana are not racists."
• "We lead in exporting jobs." -- Committing a Freudian slip while speaking to the Chamber of Commerce of Evansville, Indiana, a city which lost four large companies in the previous four years. He quickly changed the word 'jobs' to 'products.'
• "If you give a person a fish, they'll fish for a day. But if you train a person to fish, they'll fish for a lifetime."
• "We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
• "Votes are like trees, if you are trying to build a forest. If you have more trees than you have forests, then at that point the pollsters will probably say you will win."
• "[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."
• "Clinton cannot possibly win in 2000." -- Referring to Bill Clinton, who had already served two terms as President by 2000.
• "The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Dan Quayle may or may not make."
• "Every once in a while, you let a word or phrase out, and you want to catch it and bring it back. You can't do that. It's gone, gone forever."
• "I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."

lolz!

[Angela]

I think it's perfectly fair to point out the reasons you don't think it would be a good idea for a candidate to be elected, and even to enjoy the humor in it ... including over dinner, with your pals, and especially with a glass of wine or two in you. Even a supporter (assuming they're not identifying too strongly with that candidate) can enjoy humor at his candidate's expense. For instance, your friend would have plenty of material to work with in Joe Biden.

When you present your opinions about a candidate, either seriously or humorously, or you just present the facts about what they've said or done without editorializing, your friend has the opportunity to respond authentically, to talk about their own opinion or to shoot holes in yours, or to laugh with you over the foibles of politicians in general. You probably trust your friends to be witty and intelligent enough to hold their own, and to recognize that you both have the same higher purposes when you talk about politics. The same is not so true with namecalling, because unless your pal is very conversationally adept, she's kind of stuck with a defensive response: "Nu-uh! I know you are, but what am I! Sarah's rubber, and you're glue...."

And of course, they might respond with sarcasm, too. And even that's "respondable."

But this lady who has declared her independence from your friendship? When in the course of human events it becomes necessary to dissolve the amicable bands that connected you? Well, the U.S. and the U.K. eventually kissed and made up; I think you can, too.

[joylangtry]

Angela, you're amazing. I don't have the time right now to offer all the replies in my mind, but I will.

I was amused at the latest Sarah Palin news, and its timing in my little world. Hmmmm, wonder what's next?

Life is Grand!

[aggie]

today a lucrative book deal...tomorrow playboy?

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by aggie

tomorrow playboy?

Possibly. I'm using all of the intention manifestation energy I have. I need to recruit others... hey ALG, let me tell you something good buddy... !

[aggie]

yeah, yeah, yeah...go for it guys...as long as the credibility is already shot!

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Angela

I think it's perfectly fair to point out the reasons you don't think it would be a good idea for a candidate to be elected, and even to enjoy the humor in it ... including over dinner, with your pals, and especially with a glass of wine or two in you. Even a supporter (assuming they're not identifying too strongly with that candidate) can enjoy humor at his candidate's expense. For instance, your friend would have plenty of material to work with in Joe Biden.

When you present your opinions about a candidate, either seriously or humorously, or you just present the facts about what they've said or done without editorializing, your friend has the opportunity to respond authentically, to talk about their own opinion or to shoot holes in yours, or to laugh with you over the foibles of politicians in general. You probably trust your friends to be witty and intelligent enough to hold their own, and to recognize that you both have the same higher purposes when you talk about politics. The same is not so true with namecalling, because unless your pal is very conversationally adept, she's kind of stuck with a defensive response: "Nu-uh! I know you are, but what am I! Sarah's rubber, and you're glue...."

And of course, they might respond with sarcasm, too. And even that's "respondable."

But this lady who has declared her independence from your friendship? When in the course of human events it becomes necessary to dissolve the amicable bands that connected you? Well, the U.S. and the U.K. eventually kissed and made up; I think you can, too.

Angela, I agree with you.

Joy's friend should have been able to just ignore the Palin comments or had been able to just debate some points (if she was capable.)

My guess is that there are other things besides the Palin comments that bothered her and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm not saying that Joy isn't a wonderful person however some people just don't get along.

Joy probably loved her friend and felt free to be herself and speak her mind whereas her friend was building up resentment for some reason which we do not know. The Palin comments probably cemented some belief she had of Joy and she felt "I know longer want to associate with this person".

Again, I think Joy was in the right here and that true close friends should be able to communicate and also give a "OK I acted like an ass" card out from time to time.

What I said earlier about writing the letter still applies however being right and doing right aren't always the same.

[cylon]

Somebody post all the stupid Obama quotes.

Just kidding, there aren't any. He's perfect. Just like all you guys. Perfect, filled with love and light.

[Angela]

Well, there's always that old "NLP and hypnotic language for manipulation like Hitler" thing!

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by cylon

Somebody post all the stupid Obama quotes.

Here's some good ones: Obamaisms - Dumb Barack Obama Quotes - Gaffes and Obama-isms

He's perfect. Just like all you guys. Perfect, filled with love and light.

You think I'm perfect? Thanks! I'm glad this is pushing some of your buttons.

[Brutha]

I think that name calling is general a bad idea that doesn't lead to good discussion. Whether political or personal.

If you talk about politics with your friends treat it as a game.

A while ago a had a talk with a friend who said something about Italy being politically unstable .
I said in return, that I think that Italy is ruled very stable as Berlusconi got the propaganda thing down.

Be a bit more like Colbert. That's a more fun way to discuss politics.

Republicans base ideology is: Conservatism
Democrats base ideology is: Liberalism

I really don't think that much of politics is today driven by ideology.
I think you could even say that Obama/Biden was a more conservative choice than McCain/Palin.

Palin has a trackrecord of running against a governour of her own party and afterwards kicking out the etablished politicians and replacing them with her friends.
As a result she became quite popular in Alaska.
One weakly standard guy made the comment about her that a lot of the problem that the mainstream media has with her lies in the fact that she never visited an Aspen Institute Seminar or was in Davos.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by cylon

People are scared of Palin, big time, because they can sense that she can sit in the Oval Office. Who knows what could possibly happen in four years time, but it would be a mistake to simply dismiss her as stupid and a joke.
Of course, the idea is to attack her early, weaken her as much as possible, for the next four years, because she is Republican#1 and if she runs, will be bringing huge numbers of people to the polls. There is a reason she is the biggest thing on tv whenever she is on. Whatever it is, she has it.

I think you are right people are scared. The thought of someone being in the Oval Office who makes GW seem like a rocket scientist doesn't scare you?

The problem is just that Palin is a very polarizing figure just by her nature, what she says and the way she says it, her lack of intellectual curiosity which seems very appealing to her base is in the same way just as repulsive to those who value intelligence (aka elitism by crazy people). She commands almost cultish excitement from the cultural conservatives and invokes vile repulsion from the progressives. It'd be like Al Sharpton running and expecting to win a national office. It'd never happen. Some people are just cut out to be base inciters, national office is for smart boys and girls. Or those that are lucky enough to have a Karl Rove.

I wouldn't call her a F'ng moron if I were buddies with one of her fans, but I shudder at the thought of her being the person that has to make decisions that affect our foreign policy.

She's a shrewed political player though, and it will be fun if she runs in 2012. At least the comedy channels will light up.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

Oh, lookie....Palin's just announced she's not running for governer again. Time to crank up the Presidential Campaign Machine.

Muuahhhh...all is going according to my plan.

Jennifer

I've a feeling there's more to it than that.....seemed like a hastily made decision. I don't know, but smells fishy.......my bet would be there's something we're about to find out that could be jaw-dropping. Which would disappoint, cuz I really do want her to run in 2012.