Fill out the National Census or they'll hunt you down.

[Still Growing]

I've been debating about the need for asking one's race at all in surveys. In my opinion its irrelevant, inaccurate and has been used in the past against minorities.

About a year ago I received the National Census in the mail and it said that I was required by law to fill out the survey and return it by Federal Law. I was shocked by the personal questions I was being asked about my daily routine, health and other personal information. I did some research online about the option of not completing it or just refusing to answer certain questions and I was shocked by what I found.

Some people claimed that when they did not fill it out that the Census came knocking on their door and explained to them the fines they would be imposed by not filling out the form completely. If you give false information there are also fines associated.

I chose to fill out the survey because I didn't want to fight.... As I filled out the form and mailed it in I felt violated under the power and control of the gov't.

American Census Bureau | Ask Metafilter

informationliberation - THE NEW CENSUS: An All-Out Assault On Your Privacy

[JenZ]

ITS ALL A LIE! You never ever have to fill out the National Census. I only get one occasionally and I don't even look at it. It goes straight to the trash. No fines, no jail, no nothing for YEARS. Don't fall for the threats. If anyone ever questioned it, you can just say you never received it. They have no way of knowing either way. It's none of anyone's business any of the info. I would lie on it anyhow. The government knows enough about us through our S.S., credit, bank accounts, employment, etc. I don't normally condone lying, but I would in this case. There's enough mandatory stuff we're forced to do without wasting our time on this.

If this was truly a law they enforced we'd all know about it and it would be constantly talked about like taxes.

[Still Growing]

But how do you fill about how the gov't threatens people with fines and up to 5 years in prison?

[Daffy Duck]

Don't fill it out if you don't want to. It's very unlikely they're going to push it, as JenZ pointed out.

Keep in mind that to be an American citizen, you may have to follow American laws at times. If you don't like it, you can fight against the laws or move to another country. Both options have the possibility of good and bad consequences.

[advancedatheist]

If the Obama Administration thinks it can bully people into filling out the census, it has misread the mood of the country.

As for the prison nonsense, it costs $50,000 a year to keep someone in prison. The Federal Government could start to implode any day now for a variety of financial reasons, which will force budget cuts in the Federal prison system and the release of nonviolent offenders.

[Kanzeon]

Did I stumble onto freerepublic accidentially?

What, exactly, is the supersecret information that you're concerned about? Your race???? Thousands of strangers see you every day and know your race. Your income? Sorry, most of us reveal our income to the federal government every year. When you leave for work? That's a secret between you and the bus driver or your neighbors, and they, of course, are sworn to secrecy.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by advancedatheist

If the Obama Administration thinks it can bully people into filling out the census, it has misread the mood of the country.

... filling out the census has been required for decades. The Obama administration has done, as far as I'm aware, nothing to improve enforcement. Enforcement has always been lax and looks like it will continue to be lax.

[Gabo]

A census can be legally required to ask ONLY how many people live in your household. This is because census information is used to apportion state representation in Congress.

The original census, which began with the founding of the country, asked only that question. Since then, the government has tacked on other superfluous questions that have no lawful reason for requiring an answer.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

... filling out the census has been required for decades. The Obama administration has done, as far as I'm aware, nothing to improve enforcement. Enforcement has always been lax and looks like it will continue to be lax.

I don't know the entire story however I think I read somewhere that Obama seemed to give more authority and funding to ACORN and that ACORN was aligning in some way with the National Census.

Is this why people are complaining about Obama?

[Somi]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

I've been debating about the need for asking one's race at all in surveys. In my opinion its irrelevant, inaccurate and has been used in the past against minorities.

American Census Bureau | Ask Metafilter

informationliberation - THE NEW CENSUS: An All-Out Assault On Your Privacy

Intersting your should say that! As someone who's always written, against race, gender, religion discrimination, I don't really think it should be a problem to be asked about it, because I think that anyone's background reveals interesting points about them, that can be helpful in many social situations.

What I'm trying to say is that, the fact that race, gender, or religion shouldn't be a factor in allowing people equal opportunities, doesn't mean that people are quite the same, everyone is a combination of his/her personal history and current conditions. I've never quite understood why some people find it unpleasent to have to share facts about themselves.

Our world is becoming more interconnected, loss of privacy (to some extent) is one of the facts of the new era, and it really isn't so much of a problem. Imagine if we were never questioned about our background, how could we distinguish people from each other? I think in the long run the benefits of this outweighs its possible downsides.

And keep growing by the way

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Kanzeon

...
What, exactly, is the supersecret information that you're concerned about? Your race???? Thousands of strangers see you every day and know your race. Your income? Sorry, most of us reveal our income to the federal government every year. When you leave for work? That's a secret between you and the bus driver or your neighbors, and they, of course, are sworn to secrecy.

LOL!

Brilliant!

We leave traces on the internet willingly and unwillingly. Why the aversion if the government wants to know some basic data and hopefully spend our taxes in a better way?

The government is doomed by the same people if they misspend and if they want to spend better. Beats me...

Personally I think privacy will be more and more diminishing anyway. Not because governments and big corporations are after us, no because it works better. I think Steve posted something on that in the sense: 'what if my life was fully public?' A powerful thought.

[Somi]

Originally Posted by Kanzeon

Did I stumble onto freerepublic accidentially?

What, exactly, is the supersecret information that you're concerned about? Your race???? Thousands of strangers see you every day and know your race. Your income? Sorry, most of us reveal our income to the federal government every year. When you leave for work? That's a secret between you and the bus driver or your neighbors, and they, of course, are sworn to secrecy.

That was sort of what I meant! I just have to overthink everything always!

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Somi

What I'm trying to say is that, the fact that race, gender, or religion shouldn't be a factor in allowing people equal opportunities, doesn't mean that people are quite the same, everyone is a combination of his/her personal history and current conditions. I've never quite understood why some people find it unpleasent to have to share facts about themselves.

If you feel this way I'd like to ask you some questions:

What is your:

- actual name other than Somi
- your age
- your race
- religion
- sexual orientation
- are you married or single

Share with us....

[Daffy Duck]

Sharing that information with an online stranger is much different than sharing it with the government, who has the resources to easily track you down if they really wanted to.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Sharing that information with an online stranger is much different than sharing it with the government, who has the resources to easily track you down if they really wanted to.

OK Somi can hide his or her name and just let us know their religion, age, race and sexual orientation. Its Somi's view that there is no concern to share this information.

You see on blogs people often hide this information. Not for personal security but so judgement cannot be drawn based upon stereo types.

I don't really care about this information myself but I'm proving a point. Online people feel they have anonymity. There is a certain freedom to just your voice being heard without any judgement of appearance. Sometimes we slowly reveal certain information however we have control of it.

Why does the gov't need to track race? Shouldn't we all be equal and possess anonymity with our gov't?

I bet the Japanese Americans wished they had this when we locked them up due to their heritage in WWII.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

- your age
- your race
- religion
- sexual orientation
- are you married or single

Share with us....

24, white, muslim, straight, single. That wasn't so hard.

Anonymity from the government doesn't exist. If they want to go through the effort, they can track your birth certificate, SSN, and DL (if you have one). The birth certificate is enough to give race, age, and name. Court documents can provide marital status, which gives clues to sexual orientation. This information isn't so very sensitive, nor is it something that is well protected. As has been mentioned, you reveal most of it every day of your life.

As to Japanese Americans, do you have any evidence for your contention that census data was used to pursue or detain citizens who were interred? That was a detail never covered in my history classes...

[Savage]

I received a census form for my business and filled it out online. It took about 15 minutes. The online form is nice because it automatically skips the questions that don't apply to you, and once you submit it, you're done.

I asked myself which would feel better to me: to take some time to submit the info, or to get worked up about why I shouldn't have to. I chose the former and felt good about it afterwards.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

As to Japanese Americans, do you have any evidence for your contention that census data was used to pursue or detain citizens who were interred? That was a detail never covered in my history classes...

They had a national census at the time. Do you think they went through each birth certificate of every American, went door to door looking for Japanese or just looked at the data that was collected by the national census?

So what do you think?

As I have stated, I think race is irrelevant, inaccurate and historically has not been used for good.

I think we've grown past it.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I received a census form for my business and filled it out online. It took about 15 minutes. The online form is nice because it automatically skips the questions that don't apply to you, and once you submit it, you're done.

I asked myself which would feel better to me: to take some time to submit the info, or to get worked up about why I shouldn't have to. I chose the former and felt good about it afterwards.

When I received the national census I really didn't want to fill it out.

I googled "not filling out national census" and I uncovered people blogging about people coming to their door and about the supposed fines or imprisonment for false information. I've subsequently hear that they are hollow threats however I just filled it out accurately and forgot about it.

Now a year later I'm venting about it.

I think we should have the right to refuse to fill it out without having to lie and say it was lost. If you do refuse to fill it out they will persist I've heard.

BTW, them sending your one to fill out one on your business probably wasn't random. Your business and income tax return obviously raised some flag.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

If you feel this way I'd like to ask you some questions:

What is your:

- actual name other than Somi
- your age
- your race
- religion
- sexual orientation
- are you married or single

Share with us....

- Unable to write. It is in alien language.
- 5 billion years
- Inner system subspecies
- Vulcan logic
- Aliens do not have sex, it is disgusting. We clone ourselves.
- Single, just like many other trillions of aliens like me.

Please, do not tell government I am an alien.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

BTW, them sending your one to fill out one on your business probably wasn't random. Your business and income tax return obviously raised some flag.

Doubtful, as information provided for a census SBO-1 cannot be used by or transferred to the IRS by federal law.

They had a national census at the time. Do you think they went through each birth certificate of every American, went door to door looking for Japanese or just looked at the data that was collected by the national census?

So what do you think?

I simply don't know. I was hoping for some insight on how the government went about collecting this information. My understanding was that the census didn't specify "Japanese", but only "Asian". I do not know what procedures were used for getting people into the camps. It is a detail I'd like to know now that you've sparked by curiosity. A quick search this morning didn't turn up anything, but I may try again later.

[seeker5]

When I filled out the 2000 census, I filled out only the part that ask how many people lived in my household. That's the only thing that the census is constitutionally designed for. The rest I left blank and sent it in. Someone did come by but I told my roommate not to give out any info about me, so he didn't and that was the end of it.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

BTW, them sending your one to fill out one on your business probably wasn't random. Your business and income tax return obviously raised some flag.

Maybe they like me and want to get to know me better.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

Doubtful, as information provided for a census SBO-1 cannot be used by or transferred to the IRS by federal law.

But can the National Census receive information from the IRS?

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

I simply don't know. I was hoping for some insight on how the government went about collecting this information. My understanding was that the census didn't specify "Japanese", but only "Asian". I do not know what procedures were used for getting people into the camps. It is a detail I'd like to know now that you've sparked by curiosity. A quick search this morning didn't turn up anything, but I may try again later.

Link of argument. Don't Trust the Census.

[SamIAm508]

The privacy and dignity of our citizens are being whittled away by sometimes imperceptible steps. Taken individually, each step may be of little consequence. But when viewed as a whole, there begins to emerge a society quite unlike any we have seen -- a society in which government may intrude into the secret regions of a person’s life. Quote from Justice William O. Douglas

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

Anonymity from the government doesn't exist. If they want to go through the effort, they can track your birth certificate, SSN, and DL (if you have one). The birth certificate is enough to give race, age, and name. Court documents can provide marital status, which gives clues to sexual orientation. This information isn't so very sensitive, nor is it something that is well protected. As has been mentioned, you reveal most of it every day of your life.

LOL ....

You guys are a little primitive.

In my country, every citizen carries a little card with an embedded microchip. If a government agency scans your card, it instantly accesses all the relevant information it needs.

It goes way beyond name, age, address, race etc. Eg if you had a medical emergency and went to a hospital, it takes them 2 seconds to scan your card and extract your entire medical history.

If you went to the library, it takes them 2 seconds to tell which books you've borrowed and when the books are due.

If you went through an immigration checkpoint (eg at the airport), by scanning your card, they immediately have records of your entire travel history in and out of the country.

And so on .... It's extremely convenient.

[Still Growing]

ALG,

Yea Singapore has more control over the people for sure.

It sounds like an expensive program. Maybe its paid by the following:

Singapore Fines
- If you forget to flush the toilet after you go: $500 fine.
- Only one political party which will fine you if you speak against them (PAP)
- Smoking on the MRT $1000
- Eating on the MRT $500
- Unlocked emergency breaks on inclines $5000
- Bringing in flammable goods $5000
- Fined Walld Street Journal for speaking badly of Singpapore gov't.

Singapore is definitely a "fine" city.

I like Singapore BUT this gov't organization you speak of is another form of control.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

It sounds like an expensive program.

No, it's very cheap. It saves time and massive administrative costs. It's called technology.

Interestingly, I just had a American colleague who was telling me over lunch about the difficulties of filing income tax in the US. It sounds quite horrendous. I understand that some Americans even have to hire an accountant to help them file their taxes.

In Singapore, you do it yourself and it takes about 15 minutes. Once a year, you log on to a government website, use your password etc. The system has already electronically compiled a list of your income-related information for you; and identified all the tax reliefs that you're eligible for.

Usually everything is in order, so you just click "Yes" to confirm that everything is ok, and then you click "Submit". That's it.

The reason why the system has all your data is that the tax authority is tied up with all the other government bodies, and also with most employers, and also with stockbrokers, fund houses, banks etc. Therefore all your salary info; and income info is already with the tax authority.

There are assorted other tax reliefs depending on a wide variety of factors such as whether you had done military service; how many children you have; how old they are etc. However, because the government also has all that information, the data is automatically captured in the tax system.

-------

This year I was on a new pilot scheme. I did not even have to file my taxes. The data would be automatically sent to me, and only if anything was incorrect, would I have to contact the tax authorities to tell them.

[Still Growing]

ALG,

I kind of agree with the system you speak of.

I am for:

-flat tax rate so itemization, accountants and the IRS is needed less

As for an ID that's scannable. In the US the criminals would scan your back pocket and have a new ID card printed or use the data for credit card fraud.

Since Singapore has more control over its people and its harder for criminals to escape or transit over to Malaysia without a check point I think its more executable.

I'm a big believer that one size doesn't fit all regarding countries. Socialism works well in Europe but not so in the US. Scannable ID cards works well in Singapore but may need modification for the US.

Eventually every gov't will have the card you speak of I'm sure. Ultimately the gov't in the US will seize control over its citizens just like they have in Singapore.

I don't want people reading this to think Singapore is bad; its great. Just different.

[Barcs]

I've always wondered why there is a need for a census in the first place, especially in this day and age. The government already has all of the information it needs to get a fairly accurate population count and get any information they need. Why do you need to tell them what they already know? A census in this digital age is really just an indicator of how incompitant our government actually is. I don't really care about the privacy issues, because I know they can press a button and learn anything they want about my life if need be. I've never filled out a census form before, but I don't remember ever receiving one. Are they done every 10 years?