Why do we always side with the Government?

[Xanafax]

It struck me today, as I read once more about the British Government's super-plans to fix this, that or the other that when it comes down to it, no matter how flat-out **** a Government is, when it comes down to it, we are so scared of personal responsibility that we would rather trust them than ourselves.

Take for example Healthcare. In Britain we have a National Health Service. Now a National Health Service sounds great, I mean, free health care whoo! However it becomes a problem when people realise that money doesn't grow on trees. Sure if you have mass amounts of money to throw at it, it works a treat, however when the cash runs low, and the taxes are raised it becomes a shambles.

Today the NHS is 60% "Chiefs" or Bureaucrats. It's red tape, it's farcical, its depressing.

Now if I called for the privatisation of the NHS I would be harangued and insulted. Capitalism, a system of moral responsibility for oneself is what I espouse and I believe that only a 100% Capitalist can survive and flourish, for example the post war boom in America saw something like the most wealth ever created in the history of the planet. Why? Because it was unregulated Capitalism.

These days Socialism is more prevalent and Fascism is in fashion. Back to the NHS example. At the moment hospitals are dirty, staff are over worked and under paid, doctors are frankly being pee'd on and if I had worked 5 years to get one of the most complex and challenging university qualifications I would want more for my services. However according to the Labour Government, everyone has a right to Healthcare. A RIGHT. Essentially this means it is a Doctors duty to serve others without daring to ask to work on their terms. In their own hours. For their own good. No.

If the government says they will sort out the NHS, they will, apparently. We don't question it, we don't bother to think about it, sometimes we dissent but we don't take it further than a bitter comment over a pint at the local. Deep down we know that if we stood up and made some noise we may have to take responsibility for it ourselves, and nobody seems to want that.

Of course we need someone to blame for our woes, in the case of the NHS we have no comparison, but people still like to say, it would be worse under a privatised system. Would it? Would it really? The NHS racks up debt year after year, eventually, and it will be soon, we will have to pay that back, and I bet at that time the government will be pretty tight-pursed and we will have to fork out for our predecessors ignorance.

Of course Big Business is the scape goat of the 21st Century. It wasn't our fault we took out 300% Mortgages, or bought everything on credit, or expected production without effort, money without a source etc...

So boo big businesses, how DARE you keep our economy going, how DARE you make the money that pays our wages that keeps us in a house, that keeps our car fuelled up, that keeps us floating in the magical world of endless money.

Of course to be in favour of Big Business at the moment is political, professional, and well frankly social suicide. People don't want to think about it. People don't want to admit that big business is good. They want to believe that the redistribution of wealth is good. That socialism will make everyone rich. That inequality is perpetuated by businesses, not by fascist government policies.

So why do we always side with the government? Well it comes to down to that childhood belief that those who claim to be in authority are right. We may not like it, but thems the facts. The Government with its shiny suits, huge pay checks and ****-licking smiles knows what best for us commoners.

Common sense? Don't be stupid...we payed £13 Billion on this think tank to tell us that by spending money on nothing, we can magically create money by raising stealth taxes.

To sum up, we need - as a western societal whole - start thinking about who we elect. Not just on face-value - ooh look at his suit, he must know what he's doing. Or Labour...yeah I voted for them last time, whatever it never makes a difference. - We need to support candidates who are not afraid to say "Small Government, cuts in spending, privatisation" Because without those things the world is just going to get worse.

[Brutha]

Of course we need someone to blame for our woes, in the case of the NHS we have no comparison, but people still like to say, it would be worse under a privatised system.

Of cause you do.

The American system with privatized health care doesn't work better either.

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by Brutha

The American system with privatized health care doesn't work better either.

I think you mean the American system of pseudo-private, semi-public health care.
Over 50% of the money spent on health care in America comes from the government.

[Brutha]

I think you mean the American system of pseudo-private, semi-public health care.

If the UK would make a decision to make their system more private it would probably look like the US system.

Especially in Europe a lot of people think that nobody should die simply because he doesn't have the money to pay for basic health care. That has nothing to do with doing what the government wants but simply with basic humanistic values.

[Holistic Star]

Thing is the UK government has engaged private money into the NHS, called PFIs or private finance initiatives. By and large they have not been successful.
Get a few copies of Private Eye, PFI failures are normally mentioned in there.

I'm not saying the NHS is perfect, but I'd still rather that than the situation in the US where Healthcare is very expensive and lot of people can't afford it.

[Xanafax]

Frankly the NHS is a joke. Most of the money it get's goes toward officials who just do more micromanagement. If health care was privatised the price would be lower than it is now in taxes I reckon. Furthermore, my high taxes wouldn't have to fund things like Stop Smoking campaigns, Anti-Drug Campaigns, drink drivers, criminals who hurt themselves breaking into peoples homes (That's not a joke) etc...

[seeker5]

The American system with privatized health care doesn't work better either.

Having lived in a European health care system and having lived in an American health care system, I much prefer to live in the American system even if I have to pay more out of pocket myself for it.

[Xanafax]

Thank you Seeker5.

The American system may sound cruel. However it's the only way to properly ensure high standards - by having a free market.

A "national" health service is a akin to saying A "Socialist" health service. One size treats all. No competition, no incentive to improve.

[JimS]

You can thank the lawyers and frivilous lawsuits throughout the uears for that one

[Brutha]

Frankly the NHS is a joke. Most of the money it get's goes toward officials who just do more micromanagement. If health care was privatised the price would be lower than it is now in taxes I reckon. Furthermore, my high taxes wouldn't have to fund things like Stop Smoking campaigns, Anti-Drug Campaigns, drink drivers, criminals who hurt themselves breaking into peoples homes (That's not a joke) etc...

I rather have government spent money on Anti-Drug campaings than go the war against drugs way that the US goes.

A "national" health service is a akin to saying A "Socialist" health service. One size treats all. No competition, no incentive to improve.

Even in the US there's no real incentive to improve because people don't pick their doctor based on the skill of the doctor but on a variety of other reasons that have to do with prestige or word of mouth (ie. the doctor convincingly tolled a friend or family member that he's the best).
It's irrelevant for mortality whether the doctor went to a top school or a school with less prestige but those doctors who go to top school mostly do get better payed.

If you do believe in evidence based medicine the idea that a patient can decide whether a doctor is better than another based on his intuition is a bad strange.

[funchy]

Come visit the US before judging.

Buying your own health insurance can cost hundreds of dollars a month or more. For some people it's over $1000/month.

The kicker is this: if you have pre-existing conditions, you can simply be denied covered from all insurance companies for any amount. Or they can pick and choose what they cover, so you pay for insurance, they can just decide not to pay for certain things.

Normal people with good jobs go bankrupt when a hospital stay or illness happens and they don't have insurance. Families lose their homes over medical bills. If you're a child and your parents can't afford insurance, too bad if need to go to a doctor.

Totally socialized healthcare may not be perfect, but neither is the capitalist system.

[Xanafax]

The American Health care system is not 100% Free Market, it's a mixed economy, as such you cannot say it's a capitalist system. Because it isn't.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I think that the problem with the US Healthcare industry is that there is no real competition. The majority of people care covered under an insurance policy or get government assistance with Medical Bills. Often people have little choice in which doctor they visit. Even when there is a choice, very few people try to negotiate what they pay, since the insurance or government is paying most of the bill anyway. If everyone was paying medicals bills directly out of pocket then I think we would see more competition and the consumers would have more impact on how much services cost. I would not consider what we have in the US to be a capitalist system.

[Xanafax]

SRG:

You've hit the nail on the head with that one.

It's semi-socialist disguised as a Capitalist system. It gives the illusion of choice when really there is none.

[Brutha]

When your employeer plays for your healthcare insurance and you are afterwards bound to only visit doctors that your healthcare insurance approves of that's capitalism.
If you only want a system where everybody pays his bills himself you will have a lot of ill people go broke and not being able to pay for the necessary health care.

[Xanafax]

How is that Capitalism Brutha? That's just a Dictatorship.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by funchy

Come visit the US before judging.

Buying your own health insurance can cost hundreds of dollars a month or more. For some people it's over $1000/month.

Especially if you're self-employed and have a family!

The kicker is this: if you have pre-existing conditions, you can simply be denied covered from all insurance companies for any amount. Or they can pick and choose what they cover, so you pay for insurance, they can just decide not to pay for certain things.

A friend of mine was prescribed anti-depressants for feeling depressed, but her thyroid was the cause of it. Despite being misdiagnosed for years and given this wrong prescription, insurance companies still hold that against HER.

Totally socialized healthcare may not be perfect, but neither is the capitalist system.

Years ago when I was a teenager I took a trip to Japan. I was futzing around and accidentally broke one of my toenails. It was super-easy for me to merely go to the emergency room, pay twenty bucks, and get treated. I was amazed!

The other strange (by U.S. standards) thing—I was seen almost immediately, and there was hardly anyone in the emergency room.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

Today the NHS is 60% "Chiefs" or Bureaucrats. It's red tape, it's farcical, its depressing.

So perhaps the operating costs just need to be lowered rather than being made private. It's still cheaper than the US version per capita, and you don't have millions of average people losing everything to healthcare bills. For a better option though, I'd check out this ~50 minute video covering healthcare in Britain, Japan, Germany, Taiwan, and Switzerland (I particularly like the latter two), viewable for free here:

FRONTLINE: sick around the world | PBS

The basic lesson from correspondent TR Reid is that:

“Doctors, hospitals, nurses, labs can all be for-profit,” Reid said. “But the payment system has to be non-profit. All the other countries have agreed on that. We are the only one that allows health insurance companies to make a profit. You can’t allow a profit to be made on the basic package of health insurance.”

Frontline did one focusing on America, but it cut out "Reid’s bottom line for health care reform – don’t let health insurance companies profit from selling basic health insurance.

"They can sell for-profit insurance for extras – breast enlargements, botox, hair transplants.

"But not for the basic health needs of the American people."

Something is Rotten at PBS « Single Payer Action

[Xanafax]

So your saying companies are not allowed to make profits now?

Shall we just cut out the middle man and go Communist?

[Brutha]

How is that Capitalism Brutha? That's just a Dictatorship.

Nobody forces people to be insured.
In a free market insuranced companies are free to make contracts with doctors or do you want that the state makes laws to prevent insurance companies from doing such a thing?

[Xanafax]

Of course no one forces them, but its like saying:

No ones forcing you to eat.

Its not really a choice.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

So your saying companies are not allowed to make profits now?

Shall we just cut out the middle man and go Communist?

No, of course not. But we expect government to provide things like trash collection, fire and police services. This has worked out for the most part. Why can't health care?

[Xanafax]

Well ok. Well how about National Ketchup? And National Lettuce? National Sauerkraut?

Hell lets have the government give us EVERYTHING nationalised, that way everyone can have everything.

It is not a governments job to provide everything for us.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

It is not a governments job to provide everything for us.

No, but there's things it can do best because of its size.

I don't think there's anything wrong with its providing for basic services. But people can pay out of pocket for all the botox and fake boobs they want.

[Brutha]

Of course no one forces them, but its like saying:

No ones forcing you to eat.

No it isn't. There are a lot of uninsured people in the US.
Some people want to buy insurance in the US and you seem to be against that free market transaction.