Miss America Robbed by divisive question

[Andrew Brunelle]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if you don't agree with it. Just because a Miss America contestant is close-minded doesn't mean she's a bad person or anything, it's just that she has a hard time dealing with the idea of a man marrying a man. Or a woman marrying a woman. I don't think it's fair that we deny these people the same liberties as a man and a woman. If we are all created equal, shouldn't we all be given equal rights?

But with free speech still active, she can say what she wants and whoever was judging that competition has a right to decide on their own personal belief systems as well.

What is the big deal asking that type of question? These women are not in a vaccuum. They know the issues going on in the world and have every capability to answer them.

[marklang500]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Just because a Miss America contestant is close-minded doesn't mean she's a bad person or anything, it's just that she has a hard time dealing with the idea of a man marrying a man. Or a woman marrying a woman.

That's not at all why she feels the way she feels. Your interpretation belittles her opinion.

But that isn't the point anyway. The point is, her opinion is just a viable as yours, and Hiltons. That's why we vote, and the States have the power, not the Feds.

Hilton gave her a 0. Seriously, a 0. That isn't right. That is revenge. Judges shouldn't vote harshly when an answer doesn't jive with thier personal opinion. That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by marklang500

Hilton gave her a 0. Seriously, a 0. That isn't right. That is revenge. Judges shouldn't vote harshly when an answer doesn't jive with thier personal opinion. That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Then why did they pick Hilton as a judge?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by marklang500

Hilton gave her a 0. Seriously, a 0. That isn't right. That is revenge. Judges shouldn't vote harshly when an answer doesn't jive with thier personal opinion. That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I would have given her a 0 too. Not for her opinion, which she could have expressed intelligently -- I don't think she's stupid or inexperienced onstage -- but because she perpetrated a stupid and harmful falsehood. It was unintentional, I'm sure. But a high visibility position as "representing American values" such as this one should be filled by someone who is poised enough not to make such a huge misstep.

I think they should ALL be asked really challenging and confrontational questions, so you may be right that it wasn't fair -- we don't know that the winner would have had more poise, because she wasn't equally tested. But I'm still with Hilton and his zero score on this chick.

[ucqwerty]

Originally Posted by Angela

I would have given her a 0 too. Not for her opinion, which she could have expressed intelligently -- I don't think she's stupid or inexperienced onstage -- but because she perpetrated a stupid and harmful falsehood. It was unintentional, I'm sure. But a high visibility position as "representing American values" such as this one should be filled by someone who is poised enough not to make such a huge misstep.

I think they should ALL be asked really challenging and confrontational questions, so you may be right that it wasn't fair -- we don't know that the winner would have had more poise, because she wasn't equally tested. But I'm still with Hilton and his zero score on this chick.

You know, she wasn't perpetuating any "stupid and harmful falsehood".

• "Stupid": I wouldn't say it's stupid. If we consider marriage a religious ceremony, she is saying that Christianity declares that it should be between a man and a woman. Sure, she's being closed minded about any view other than her own. But aren't you and Perez Hilton doing the same thing? Gays may feel that people like Miss California are taking marriage away from them. But Christians like Miss California may feel that gays are taking a religious concept like marriage away from them.
  
• "Harmful": Maybe. Everyone should be treated equally. But she's not saying she hates gay people and that gay people are worse than straight people, all she's saying is that gay people should not be allowed to get married.
  
• "Falsehood": I don't see what's false about what she said.

Originally Posted by Angela

It was unintentional, I'm sure. But a high visibility position as "representing American values" such as this one should be filled by someone who is poised enough not to make such a huge misstep.

I think you're only saying this because it's getting so much attention and Perez Hilton and the gay community are all over it. Remember, our very president, who is considered to be progressive, has the same stance on gay marriage: it should not be allowed. Miss California didn't say anything about "civil unions" (the president is fine with homosexual "civil unions").

So, the president holds the same belief, as have many presidents before him. What does that say about how the American people feel about the issue? It therefore seems that she is very much "representing American values".

I think Perez Hilton was out of line in giving her a 0, and then swearing at her in video blogs. I think he is being just as closed minded to Miss California's religious beliefs as Miss California is being of whether marriage should be extended to homosexuals.

[ucqwerty]

Based on the logic from my previous quote, I think people should be making a bigger deal out of Perez Hilton's closed mindedness and unprofessional-ism, than out of what Miss California said.

I think both are discriminating equally. However, Miss California carried herself with dignity and maturity, whereas Perez Hilton's behavior was embarrassing.

[Angela]

ucqwerty, looks like you missed my earlier post, wayyyyy back in this thread. I wasn't referring to her opinion on gay marriage when I said her remark was stupid, harmful, and a falsehood.

I was referring to her remark that: "I think it's great that Americans can choose one or the other. We live in a land where you can choose same sex marriage or opposite marriage."

Falsehood. It's not true. It's false. Americans in only a few states currently have the right to choose same sex union, and not all of those have equal status as straight marriage. There's a federal act that explicitly bars federal recognition of same sex marriages. Americans can NOT choose one or the other.

Stupid: She's from California, and to enter a national pageant prepared to answer a question about California's most controversial issue only with such an inanity, this is a stupid remark, in my opinion. As I mentioned earlier, it would be like Miss Louisiana declaiming, "I think it's great that George Bush and FEMA responded with help for Katrina victims right away!"

(Well, I guess I do think the reason she gave for believing that marriage should only be between "opposites" as she put it was also pretty stupid: because that's how she was raised.)

Harmful: Stupid falsehoods like these tend to perpetuate the ignorance that prejudice feeds upon. The harm is done to equal rights.

I agree that Perez was harsh and reactive and didn't come off well.

[wachusettgirl]

I don't honestly know that much about this case because I haven't been following the news much lately, but just from reading this thread I'll say who cares what some beauty contestant says about anything? Are they really supposed to accurately represent us (women, Americans...) in any way?
Let's keep this in perspective, and not give it more energy/attention than it deserves.

[Angela]

But if you don't know much about this case, then how are you to know how much attention it deserves?

Maybe you think you know how much attention it deserves, based on the very limited information you have, but what if there are some details, some nuances, some sociological implications that you are not aware of? Then "keeping it in perspective" has a whole different meaning, doesn't it!

[marklang500]

Imagine this pretend example: Al Gore is a judge. The question is, "do you think global warming is a serious threat that needs to be addressed?"

Her Answer, "Science has continued to show poor correlations between global warming with the industrial revolution. More and more evidence has shown that the sun's activities have the largest correlation, as evidenced by a parallel global warming on the moon, Mars, and Venus. I am certain that pollution needs to be reigned in, but to date, the only solutions offered are merely excuses for further tax penalties for the purpose of increasing Federal revenue."

Then Al Gore gives her a zero.

Then, Al gore says to the press, "That stupid ♥♥♥♥♥!"

Then when asked about his remarks later "Yeah, I called her ♥♥♥♥♥. But I was thinking the C word. I don't regret it."

Then he draws a penis in place of the microphone on a picture of her speaking at the event and posts it on his blog.

-------------------------------

Perez did all of that. But in the context of gay marriage, people think she was wrong and he just "over reacted". I hope this Al Gore version shows you that there are two sides to every contoversial topic. The only one who is really ever wrong is the one who turns into a crybaby, defamatory jerk.

(my apologies to Al Gore for using his name in this example. I'm certain he would never stoop to such rants as Perez Hilton)

[Brutha]

Perez did all of that.

In general it helps to explain the facts that support your argument before you make an argument.
A lot of people really don't care about who gets Miss America and therefore don't follow the discussion and therefore it easier to follow when you lay them out at the beginning.

[wachusettgirl]

Originally Posted by Angela

But if you don't know much about this case, then how are you to know how much attention it deserves?

Maybe you think you know how much attention it deserves, based on the very limited information you have, but what if there are some details, some nuances, some sociological implications that you are not aware of? Then "keeping it in perspective" has a whole different meaning, doesn't it!

Honestly no Angela, because I know how I feel about gay marraige, and that's all that really matters. I don't put that much importance on celebrities' viewpoints.