Preservation of ones culture and how England has failed to do so.

[Xanafax]

This is another controversial subject. I have not meant to offend any individual or person, nor have I meant to make blanket generalisations, if it appears as though I have then I apologise, this was not my intention. This is my personal opinion on a problem that I see in my own country.

This thread is really about my own interpretation of the institutional racism presented to me, against White people. I am not, as such, blaming Muslims for this problem. I am in fact blaming my own government for their cowardice. I argue that it is perfectly acceptable for a culture to preserve itself in the face of a threat. It is in fact the principles of Social Darwinism.

Please read with an open mind.

There is a sense (not exactly quantifiable, but definitely qualitative) of the majority of Asian Muslims developing a parallel culture, in education, economy and even the legal system. These are often Racist changes.

Racism against white people is often overlooked. It is not considered possible to be racist against a white, in strictly official terms, just as it is not generally accepted that men can be victims of abuse, not just perpetrators.

The white population of Britain are sometimes targeted by Muslims and "Gangster" blacks and often abused, physically and verbally, for being white. For example just walking through certain parts of Birmingham or Manchester are impossible if your white.

The idea of Us and Them is also quite interesting. No one wants to seem like they don't WANT multiculturalism, especially not in government, but almost every person I know feels, in some way, threatened by this rising tide in Muslim culture, and here's the kicker for me, some very westernised Muslims I know are also against it, because their families left their countries to get away from it.

The fact is the British culture is being lost, and has been systematically removed from our sights for the last 30 years. The problem is our Government (my favourite scape goat) allowed pressure groups to force new laws and rules and regulations that meant the white Briton was becoming an Alien in his own country. Our cultural identity is weak.

Muslims however, have a strong cultural identity, Muslim run countries are very vocal when it comes to maintaining culture. A respectable quality, no less. In contrast the "British culture" is less easy to identify. Foreigners see us as moral degenerates, drunken louts and self-debasing heathens (all of which are true in some areas).

Of course Britain has a proud heritage, we once pretty much ruled the world. We controlled the seas and were like Gods on Earth. We messed up with that but alas...I divulge.

In my home town of Halifax it's unfortunate that I see very few successful Muslims. Because I know they exist. Yet I see Muslim ghetto's that are someone what a no-go zone for whites.

Muslim culture is a very beautiful thing at its roots. However pressure groups in the government are forcing the already spineless and malleable government to curb more and more liberties for the Whites of England and instead give more freedom to Muslims. This is racist in my opinion.

I would like to see an England that does not have a social divide between Muslims and Whites. The first thing I would do to stop this would be to slow down immigration. Furthermore I would see that integration was a requirement for entering the country. In other words, make yourself fit to our country, not the other way around.

I like other cultures. But in Britain a White-British culture should take precedence because we have been for the longest time a white country, and since Doggerland flooded (google it) we have been Britain.

No - this is not racist. I have no problem with blacks, Asians, Chinese, Japanese or Martian. There are some great individuals in every culture and race, however is it so unreasonable to want to preserve my own heritage? If I went to Saudi Arabia I would not try and force my beliefs on others (I would just be stoned to death...) but even without the punishments I just wouldn't do it. I respect their right to preserve their culture.

Is it wrong for me to want to preserve mine?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

I would like to see an England that does not have a social divide between Muslims and Whites. The first thing I would do to stop this would be to slow down immigration. Furthermore I would see that integration was a requirement for entering the country. In other words, make yourself fit to our country, not the other way around.

You would like to see an England that has no social divide between Muslim and Whites, and the very first thing you would do is take steps that set up and enforce social divide between Muslim and White.

You, Xanafax, are the problem you complain about. If you want to make a difference, start with yourself. Be at cause, and let go of being the victim of external circumstance, if you'd like to be effective at getting results.

[Montrealonmymind]

Sticky subject that has in the past and continues to lead to war, division ext...I'm just putting it out there...you don't have to agree...but what leads to gangs and the fact that you see a lot of Muslims living in poorer places, maybe with less opportunity? Is it their culture or is it something else? Maybe a combination of things? What do you think are solutions? If we stopped immigration tomorrow are the gangs going to stop and are Muslims going to stop living in poorer places and getting more opportunities? What are the solutions that would really stop those problems? Stopping immigration or stopping racism? And I am not just talking about racism from white people against Muslims but racism in it's entirety...but when we can't even talk about issues like 'internal' racism which is someone who has experienced unknowingly or knowingly so much racism that they don't even know they are discriminating against themselves because they are trying to fit in so much. For example the Muslim friends you have that think immigration should stop and they are immigrants themselves. Who is in a position of power?...try this experiment....send 20 resumes with the same qualification out into the world except change it up a bit and also change the last name of 10 of those resumes to a Muslim last name and send it to the same companies...wait for the phone calls...and if a white person did get their booty kicked by a 17 years old gang member because they walked through a certain street...was that kid a racist? Probably? But what created that street? And what kind of society created that youth? Now everyone has choices but under pressure not all people react the same - especially when our minds are young and growing. For me these questions and so many more lead me (of course you can disagree) to the the conclusion that stopping immigration is not going to stop the problems in my country. How about giving that taxi driver who used to be a doctor in his country a job in our under staffed hospitals? ext...my two cents...

[Byron]

Annoying how general issues are reduced to personal ones. Another logical fallacy. The subject he raised is a broad cultural one, and it does no good to try to deflect it or diminutize it into some kind of therapeutic issue. The broad cultural issues were raised, and should be discussed as they are on that scale.

Posts should be kept on topic.

Originally Posted by Angela

You, Xanafax, are the problem you complain about. If you want to make a difference, start with yourself. Be at cause, and let go of being the victim of external circumstance, if you'd like to be effective at getting results.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by Byron

Annoying how general issues are reduced to personal ones. Another logical fallacy. The subject he raised is a broad cultural one, and it does no good to try to deflect it or diminutize it into some kind of therapeutic issue. The broad cultural issues were raised, and should be discussed as they are on that scale.

Posts should be kept on topic.

Yeah, Angela has this problem that sorta permeates all she writes. She prefers to help people rather than discuss why the world is so very wrong. That's a horrible thing when you realize that viewpoint and viewer are so different from each other... Especially on a personal development forum. Angela should be ashamed of looking so deeply into people and speaking to them as people rather than just as arguments. Bad Angela!

As to the broad issue, I agree with Xan that preserving the finer points of Western democratic culture is a good thing. But I haven't seen specific policies that threaten that. Could be that I'm too far away to understand. Could be that I'm seeing a lot of reactionary fear based on Mexican immigration to the US and I'm desensitized to his more persuasive argument based on the extremely weak arguments made over here (including proposed laws requiring hospitals to treat only in English even when the surrounding community speaks mostly Spanish). But in these threads, I haven't gotten a seen what specific laws or court cases he's pointing too.

Xan, could you ship some references to statutes, ordinances, or court cases that show your government's actions against Western culture?

[Susanna77]

I don't understand why people who do not agree with the western way of life would choose a western country to live, work, and bring up their children.

In my country (not UK) there are some issues with immigration. Violent crime and prostitution have increased to levels never seen before due to increasing numbers of people from a particular country (it's a fact).

The problem is: there are A LOT of people immigrating that are genuinely looking to work, to better their lives, and live in peace in a foreign country. And God bless them. They too are not happy with the situation either, not just because it gives the whole community a bad name, but because often the same things now seen here are the same things these immigrants wanted to escape from, when they left their own countries.

My view is that anyone should be allowed to go anywhere they want in the look for a better life. HOWEVER, it's our govt's DUTY to do a proper scan of who can come in or not. Sadly, organised crime fools govt too easily.

[Holistic Star]

What do you mean by English culture? It's such a hard thing to define, there are so many different facets of it. The culture is different depending on where you live and what class you were born into and even the class barriers are shifting.

What does it mean to be English? Many people hark back to this idealised 1950s rose-tinted world view along the lines of John Major when he talked nostalgically about vicars daughters cycling to church through country lane. The thing is the idealised 1950s view of the world never really existed. Yes things were different then, but life was grindingly tough for many people.

Mass immigration started in the 1950s when the governement invited people from the Commonwealth to come to the country to do the menial work that the British didn't want to. Those people experienced outright racism like you wouldn't believe. The young muslims that you see in the town centres are probably 2nd or 3rd generation and are British in every sense of the word. So what if they keep hold of their culture? If I moved abroad I would keep alive the traditions from my country.

I live in the south of England and work with lots of successful muslims. I don't feel threatened by that. Why should I? When I was a supply teacher in Manchester I found it so much nicer to teach in the muslim schools rather than white schools, because the muslim school children were so enthusastic and hard-working. My job was a pleasure rather than dealing with the outright abuse I got in other schools.

If you feel British culture is under threat, what would you like to see done differently? We don't really celebrate St Georges Day the way the Irish celebrate St Patricks day, perhaps you could start by organising a St George's day event on April 23rd this year in your local pub. What else would you do to celebrate our culture? A national tea-drinking competition? An event celebrating our greatest writers from Chaucer to Pinter?

We are a nation of immigrants! There a very few pure-blooded celts left here. Most people in the UK are such a mixture of different culture the idea of a pure-blooded white Briton is ridiculous! Our culture is a mish-mash of imported ideas and traditions from around the world. Our language has absorbed words and phrases from so many other cultures (although in the top 100 most commonly used words the majority are based on original Anglo-Saxon words). The influence the arab world has had on our culture over the centuries is immeasurable.

One of the great characteristics of the English is their tolerance and understanding of other people. So if you want to be an embodiment of English culture, perhaps you can start there!

[magi13]

this is sad. i have a few friends who are muslims since my college days, and since they were educated we'd talk and debate about their religion. we do agree that it's a peaceful religion per say, it's just that there are those who wish to use this religion in a negative means.

you guys should really watch religulous. they touched that topic in that movie.


with respect to your cultural heritage xanafax, what did your government say?

[Montrealonmymind]

"We are a nation of immigrants! One of the great characteristics of the English is their tolerance and understanding of other people. So if you want to be an embodiment of English culture, perhaps you can start there!"

Pretty much this is what it comes down too - we're all immigrants! Racism, ignorance, fear and poor governance is the problem NOT immigration! I feel the same as a Canadian - that multiculturalism is one of the points about my culture that I am most proud of when it's at it's best - that is what makes me Canadian and I am proud to say that I am a Canadian mutt and so are the rest or my mutty Canadian friends and family and we kinda like it that way. My family and friends are a mich-mash of culture in every single way from my gay brother to my mulatto cousins. Unfortunately, some people knowingly or unknowingly are sheltered and they have all these general ideas about certain groups from watching mumbling idiots on TV blame everything on immigration and talk about stereotypes as if what they are saying is not a stereotype. But in my opinion if you don't live a sheltered life you might meet interesting people and enjoy life a little more then just being afraid of the whole world. The info, people and life are right in front of you to discover and as soon as you do that - you quickly realize that people are just people - the good, the bad and the ugly in all shapes, sizes and colors.