Racism in America

[SomeRandomGuy]

I have been considering this post for quite some time, and finally have decided that it was time to post it. There are a couple of things I would like to say regarding the post, before I get to the real topic. First, I very often see posts like this where someone will state that they are not racist, while saying things that sound very racist. I sometimes have a hard time taking those posts seriously, as I feel that the poster is not being honest with himself/herself, so is probably also not being honest with the rest of us. I hope that with this post I do not come across that way, although I realize that it is a very real possibility. Also, I would like to say that I am not posting this merely as a way to start controversy. I do expect this to be a controversial post, but generating controversy or offending others is not the intention.

I have three primary purposes for making this post. Firstly, I believe this is a topic worthy of discussion, so I hope this post will generate some constructive discussion on the topic. Secondly, my views on the subject are normally not very popular views, and I would like to see if there are others who do share my views, or if I am mostly alone in my beliefs. Lastly, I would like to hear others views on the topic.

I believe that racism in the US, and I am sure the rest of the world, is a very real and horrible thing. I have been around a great deal of racism, and have seen how ingrained it is in some people. Not only do I not condone racism, I find it disgusting. I believe that racism is based primarily on fear and ignorance, and serves no useful purpose in our society.

My strong views on racism have caused me to take notice of interactions within our society that relate to racism. One thing that has surprised me, is that it appears to me that oftentimes, the very victims of racism play a role in the generation of that racism.

There are many groups facing racism in the US, I will use one as an example. I do not, however, think that this discussion need to be limited to any specific group.

There is no doubting the fact that the black community faces a great deal of racism. This racism has existed since well before this country was founded. I am not suggesting that the black community started the racism. What I do suggest, however, is that they have a part to play in the racism that currently exists in the US.

Anyone familiar with the equal rights movement in the US is familiar with the racial segregation that existed for years in this country. While for many years the idea of "Separate but Equal" was accepted, it is now condemned as being another form of inequality. I feel, however, that we see something similar in black communities of the present. I believe that many within the black community have chosen to adopt an approach of "different but equal". I don't feel that "different but equal" is any better than "separate but equal", and has no place in our society.

Some may argue that the black community has its own culture to maintain, and should not be forced to conform to the culture of "White-America". I very much support preserving ones cultural identity, but I don't feel that this is applicable in this situation. If we were talking about a group of people from a specific country or region, then I would understand their desire to maintain their cultural identity. My experience, however, is that the only thing common among most members of the black community is the color of their skin. How can someone whose ancestry traces to Kenya share a common culture with someone who traces their ancestry to Barbados? I do not think that sharing a physical attribute has any relation to sharing a culture. That would be like me saying that I needed to get all other blue-eyed people in this country to help me preserve our blue-eyed heritage.

I also feel that the black community is not trying to preserve their culture, as much as they have tried to create a new culture. While it is common for people from other countries to bring aspects of that culture with them, I can't think of any other group in our country that has gone so far to create their own culture. What other groups have developed such a specific style of dress, created their own way of speaking, developed their own styles of music or made up their own names? While these things have made their way into mainstream society, they originated within and are closely associated with the black community. It is these things that make be believe that there is an attempt being made to create separate culture. I see little evidence that this is being done for any reason other than simply to be different.

It would be ignorant to suggest that this applies to everyone in the black community. I do not believe that is the case at all. I also do not suggest that most members of the community are making a conscious choice at being different. It seems that the black community has developed in such a way as to encourage members to follow along, or risk being considered sell-outs or traitors.

There have been many successful members of the black community who have made significant impacts to our society. The most obvious example being Barack Obama. It seems, however, that it takes much more effort for a young black man or woman to be successful than if they were another race. I do not think this is because they are less capable, or have less options available to them. I believe it is primarily because the community encourages them to avoid such ventures. It seems that in the black community of today the only way to be successful and respected is to become a rapper or athlete. It seems that those who achieve success in other areas; accountants, managers, etc. are often viewed as being sell-outs. Barack Obama has even been accused of not being "black enough", which suggests that the community expects a certain way of acting to be considered "black".

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are two figures who come to mind who seem to be considered "black enough" to represent the community. The difference I see there is that they seem to concern themselves primarily with issues that are race-specific. While Barack Obama seems to be concerned with bettering the nation, those two seemed more concerned with bettering the black community. I believe that public figures such as Jackson and Sharpton add to the racism problems, as they are focus so much on the black community as a separate and different group within our nation.

I believe that to have true racial equality in this nation we must first work to make skin color as irrelevant as hair or eye color. As long as we talk about the black community as though it is something different, then I do not feel that racial equality will exist. Some may argue that I am suggesting that black people be forced to abandon their culture, and accept the culture of White-America. I believe, however, that my suggestion is simply to stop trying to create a separate culture, stop trying to be different and become an American. I don't think that requires the black community to give up their music, way of dressing, etc as those things have already made their way into mainstream American society. What I do think is required, however, is for people (on both sides) to stop thinking in terms of black or white, because that too easily turns into us vs them.

[Montrealonmymind]

Hi there,

I am not American sorry! Obviously I am Canadian but my parents are from another country so I can relate! But I thought the things you said were really interesting and valid. To me the biggest problem with racism and any issues revolving around defining culture is that people either feel that they are not interested or can't have a safe space/not encouraged to/feel afraid to talk about it or they are judged(ing) by other people because of their 'current' views of racism and culture. I think the more society and people talk about and are encouraged to do exploration into issues related to racism and culture the more they personally should feel closer to what their personal view(s) may be. And of course their views may change as their personal exploration processes and life in general leads them to new levels of awareness. That is why racism and culture are not easily defined because they are constantly changing and their are different layers to the subject (black on white racism, racism between non-white cultures, racism within individual races themselves and internalized racism).

And then of course the second part is accepting other peoples 'current' points of views on the subject because it's a personal experience and as ignorant as they may sound it's the level that they are at and it will only stagnate their process of awareness for someone to 'judge' their current opinions. I think it is really important to accept other peoples points of views and 'current' experience when it comes to racism and culture because that is how we encourage awareness, dialog and change. I mean there should be the same comfort level in society to talk about racism/culture as any other subject - but that does not seem to be the case - it's like a taboo subject and people get labeled and frustrated. And it just shouldn't be like that! Why can't we talk about it! Do you have to role your eyes! My two cents....

[timothydrake]

I personally believe that racism comes not from skin color but from religious and cultural differences. That difference then is associated with the common skin color of the peoples practicing those cultures and religions.

It's really too bad that we humans are still ignorant in this digital age. We have the capability to communicate with anyone around the world. We still get provoked into childrens quarrels and fights with just a single word and never look towards the big picture which is "what can we do for us, humankind."

Until we accept each other as brothers and sisters and stop dividing ourselves we will never achieve unity. Hell my people the Hmong people is a perfect example of racism. Hmong people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to history in China B.C. the Hmong people were subject to a defeat in which the Hmong were divided and cast out into the borders of China in all directions. We have never recovered since then and fight to this very day about our differences instead of uniting under being Hmong.


The information can be found in the book "Tragic Mountains" by Jane Hamilton-Merril "Chapter 1"

Tragic Mountains: The Hmong, the Americans, and the Secret Wars for laos, 1942-1992

Author: Jane Hamilton-Merril
Copyright 1993 Indiana University Press

[Still Growing]

I think the major issue is that its encoded in humans DNA to herd. This creates the scenario whereby people judge the minority by instinct.

By minority I mean any group which is not in the majority at any given time.

So if a white person goes into an area whereby they are the minority it is often they they will be judged more critically. Or if an atheist happens to be around a group of religious people.

I have lived in other countries and I can tell you that racism exists every where! After some time of observing this I realized that its not actually racism but other groups herding and being critical of my being the minority in that arena.

[magi13]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

I think the major issue is that its encoded in humans DNA to herd. This creates the scenario whereby people judge the minority by instinct.

By minority I mean any group which is not in the majority at any given time.

So if a white person goes into an area whereby they are the minority it is often they they will be judged more critically. Or if an atheist happens to be around a group of religious people.

I have lived in other countries and I can tell you that racism exists every where! The race is the most obvious thing to see before someone speaks but the true issue is actually not race but being the minority in any sense of the word and on any given topic.

so true. ^^, our genes would like to preserve the same genetic material.

if they only knew that, a melting pot of races will equal to a stronger breed and intelligent people overall.

[Parthon]

Wouldn't it be a great world if everyone saw others, not as black people, or white people, or beige people, but just as people. Where race isn't an issue because it doesn't even exist?

I live there and it's a great place to live. Sure, most of the world doesn't live here yet, but you could.

[magi13]

i do think a one world concept would be for the best. i just don't know how to implement it.

the only ideas i have of implementing such is through education, literature and via example. :3

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

I think the major issue is that its encoded in humans DNA to herd. This creates the scenario whereby people judge the minority by instinct.

By minority I mean any group which is not in the majority at any given time.

So if a white person goes into an area whereby they are the minority it is often they they will be judged more critically. Or if an atheist happens to be around a group of religious people.

I have lived in other countries and I can tell you that racism exists every where! After some time of observing this I realized that its not actually racism but other groups herding and being critical of my being the minority in that arena.

You raise a good point. I suppose one possible solution would be for people to stop creating separation by herding based on on a physical attribute. Obviously that requires everyone to cooperate. Those in the majority must accept minorities and treat them as equals. Those in the minority must stop herding together based on the physical attribute. I think that the behavior change by the minority groups would be made much easier if the behavior of the majority groups were to change first. However, I also see where the behavior of the majority groups would be easier to change if the minority groups were not differentiating themselves from the majority by herding.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

Barack Obama has even been accused of not being "black enough", which suggests that the community expects a certain way of acting to be considered "black".

I believe it was much easier for someone like Barack Obama to come about having had a white anthropologist mother and a Kenyan economist father than it would have been if he had two African American parents. Being largely raised by his white, Unitarian Universalist grandparents in Hawaii likewise probably helped more than if he'd grown up in a more racist area of the US.

While attending college I lived in two different black households. The first was the son of the first two black professors at my university. While he and his parents read authors such as W E B DuBois, they had little to do with most black people, seeing them as too negative. The other household was of a current professor. She attributes much of her success to having been raised in an orphanage rather than by her mother. It seems many African Americans do better when raised outside of popular American black culture, though it can be hard to suggest being raised in a different culture without seeming racist.

A good friend that I grew up with had a football scholarship to a top private university, but instead he intentionally got a girl pregnant. He no longer has anything to do with the mother, but he never went on to college. Being able to have a kid was more important as a sign of manhood than actually raising the kid. The whole stigma against "acting white" seems to mean that if one isn't sabotaging himself in some way, he's just following the slavemasters.

I've dated, befriended, attended church with, and lived with a number of black people. As individuals I don't see them as inherently less capable than someone with a different skin tone, but the mental virus of needing to self-sabotage in order to be seen as black enough can be an issue, and people like Bill Cosby haven't gotten much fanfare for bringing it up. Hopefully over time that will change, as many more options are available today than 50 years ago, much less 150 years ago. People no longer need to limit themselves.

[Lauxa]

Good thread, raises some interesting points.

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

You raise a good point. I suppose one possible solution would be for people to stop creating separation by herding based on on a physical attribute. Obviously that requires everyone to cooperate. Those in the majority must accept minorities and treat them as equals. Those in the minority must stop herding together based on the physical attribute. I think that the behavior change by the minority groups would be made much easier if the behavior of the majority groups were to change first. However, I also see where the behavior of the majority groups would be easier to change if the minority groups were not differentiating themselves from the majority by herding.

Yes, but if you are in a group of people and you are being judged for being different, and then you see a few other people who are similarly different, isn't it natural to seek each other out?

And if you are struggling to find your place in the world and you meet a group that will accept you, isn't it natural to gravitate towards that group?

There's also the fact that there are so many different facets of American culture, cliques, groups, etc. Political groups, hobbiest groups, religious groups, socioeconomic groups, professional groups... all have their own sub-culture, their own jargon, their own styles of dress. Is that different than a sub-culture based on skin color?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

Yes, but if you are in a group of people and you are being judged for being different, and then you see a few other people who are similarly different, isn't it natural to seek each other out?

Yes, I think it probably is natural to do so. We can't really expect people to not seek out others similar to them until the majority stops treating people differently based on skin color or other inconsequential attributes.

Originally Posted by Lauxa

There's also the fact that there are so many different facets of American culture, cliques, groups, etc. Political groups, hobbiest groups, religious groups, socioeconomic groups, professional groups... all have their own sub-culture, their own jargon, their own styles of dress. Is that different than a sub-culture based on skin color?

On one hand, I think that that is different, as the people in the groups you mentioned choose to be a part of those groups, and therefore should accept the responsibility for being treated differently by society. However, if we consider that minorities who choose to group together based on skin color are in a way creating the same sort of artificial separation from the majority as those who choose to be a part of a specific group, religion, etc, then there really is no difference.

Obviously this would never be feasible, but it would be very interesting to do an experiment using people never exposed to racism, or any sort of societal conditioning. It would be very interesting to see people of different genders, skin color, hair color, fitness levels, intelligence levels, interests, etc combined into a single group and see what sub-groups are formed. I see no reason to expect that groups would be more likely to form based on skin color than some of the other differences. I think I would expect interests and intelligence level to be the top 2 determining factors, with physical attributes such as hair and skin color being of little or no impact.

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

Obviously this would never be feasible, but it would be very interesting to do an experiment using people never exposed to racism, or any sort of societal conditioning. It would be very interesting to see people of different genders, skin color, hair color, fitness levels, intelligence levels, interests, etc combined into a single group and see what sub-groups are formed. I see no reason to expect that groups would be more likely to form based on skin color than some of the other differences. I think I would expect interests and intelligence level to be the top 2 determining factors, with physical attributes such as hair and skin color being of little or no impact.

I'm betting that socioeconomic status would be the top determining factor.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by openeyes

While attending college I lived in two different black households. The first was the son of the first two black professors at my university. While he and his parents read authors such as W E B DuBois, they had little to do with most black people, seeing them as too negative.

That's basically the same experience that I'm having. I grew up in a Third World country so I've seen a lot of real poverty and hardship. But I have never before witnessed such crass, respectful behavior as what I see from many Afro-American youth in this country. It's not about if you're from the ghetto. I know ghetto people who are down to earth and friendly, and I know people from the suburbs who want to copy "ghetto" culture, so they disrespect people. Then these types have the nerve to blame this on poverty, "the struggle" and "racism". But there is far more poverty in Liberia and Liberian youths are affable. And there is far more racism in South Africa, even in Brazil, and they don't act this way.

[CroMagna]

If there was as much racism as is claimed by liberalism, I'd basically be screwed, because then, since black youth treat me miserably, I'd have nowhere to turn.

I've considered moving to Brazil because, while there's racism there, the black people there treat me like a human being. There are a whole host of problems, but there's seemingly no misery there. Luckily there's not too much American culture being sold. My samba teacher, a black Brazilian, was complaining that before the poor youth used to look happy, and now some of them are starting to look angry. She blames the spread of rap music and said that it's very disrespectful to women. She said before samba dancers were scantilly dressed and smiling, now they're still scantilly dressed and they look mad. I keep getting all these emails from my friend down there about how impressed he is that there's no aggression around there. Right now I just do what the Shelby Steeles of the US do, like what those two black professors do: integrate, avoid negative negros, forget about the fact that I'm black. But I may end up moving there after all.

[bluedragon]

For some people, such as myself, it is impossible to view people as anything else than persons, regardless of their gender. If anything can act as a bias, it is a person's attitude.
Other than that, I think I would have the same openness and compassion towards any kind of race, including aliens and androids.
I have trouble relating to racist people sometimes, because we have different approaches. I don't find it useful and practical to take into consideration someone's race in my interactions with him, because I know people are so different from one another. I know that if he is a special person, a cool person or a kind person, than most of what I would assume about him based solely on his skin color would prove to be of minor significance, compared to the attributes he would possess as a special, cool or kind person. So I feel that I MUST give him the chance of being such a person, before including him in a generalization. In any case, I think even average people have unique attributes (they past, their current situation, social position, cultural baggage), which I believe have a higher influence than skin color and even place of birth.

[172]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

avoid negative negros, forget about the fact that I'm black.

what in the world? oy!

************************************************** ******

I am an "African-American" ... or, a black person descended from slaves in North America... so, I'll go ahead and share since it doesn't appear there are many of us on this board.

First off, I'm tickled pink that this is being discussed here and that it was not introduced by a black person but that people of other persuasions were thoughtful enough and sincere enough to want to have discourse about it.

Just generally...there are a few things that have tended to work against Black people, IMO. First thing was desegregation. It's perfectly reasonable that we needed to fight for desegregation and an end to Jim Crow. I get that. It's a human right. A necessity. My parents grew up during Jim Crow and my father was 17 before he ever set foot in a movie theater because he wasn't "allowed" to. So, it had to happen. It just did...however, a few things we had going for us during segregation, tended to leave with desegregation. FAMILY. Cohesive family units. When we were segregated, we stuck together and got through this world as a unit, as a community. Back then, children grew up seeing men in their neighborhoods going to work every morning. Some of them were even doctors. When a doctor lives next door to you and your father is IN THE HOME, you have a greater chance of succeeding.

With those family values came a strong promotion of educational values. The schools were separate but unequal...however, we were in such DIRE STRAITS being subjugated that we had a certain work and educational ethic that was not optional...it was survival. We were consistently, generation after generation, working to improve our standing...working to be seen as "a man" if you will. Children were raised being taught of our struggle and why it was so important to take school seriously and to be productive, law abiding citizens.

Third, ECONOMICS.Jim Crow forced us to rely on our own commerce to survive. So, we were entreprenuers. We worked and brought our money the only place we were permitted to spend it....our own community. So, the economic wealth was solid and consistent through and through. Our segregated neighborhoods would have looked much like you see a Little Italy or a Chinatown today. It wasn't much...but it was ours and we took care of it well and we benefitted from the environment...and I believe the psychic environment was the driving force that kept blacks on focus and of the most altruistic mindset toward our own communities.

As I said earlier, the Civil Rights Movement had to happen. Jim Crow was against the constitutional rights of every American. It was unconstitutional and it was abhorrent. It had to go. Additionally, equal pay, protection against employment and housing discrimination needed to happen and then BrownvBoard of Education had already happened.

Unfortunately, as the seventies hit, and Vietnam, and the Women's Liberation movement...drugs and divorce really plagued the black community. Many soldiers came home addicted to heroin and/or unable to find work. Thousands of black soldiers who came home for Vietnam COULD NOT get hired anywhere. Women began working outside the home...men were not comfortable with it...families fell into jeopardy because the change was so much, so soon, and so radical. I cannot tell you how many people in my generation (I was born in 1970) have parents who divorced in the late 70's. But, that was NEVER an issue prior to the 70's on such a large scale.

But, I believe that there were three major things that took place in the 80's that began to really CEMENT this downward spiral for the Black family and the Black community. One was crack cocaine. Another was hiphop. And, the other thing was out of wedlock births. (OOW)

Now, with the infiltration of crack into the black community, we began to see wholesale death start to take its toll. Young men were making AMAZING amounts of money selling the highly addictive drug and those addicted to it were hopelessly lost to their families and to the community. This meant babies without mothers. Babies without fathers. Robberies. Violence. Gang warfare and guns. Young men began to chase after the glamorous lifestyles of the kingpins in their neighborhoods rather than focusing on graduating high school and going to college. (remember, Daddy's gone because there was a divorce, drugs, and no job in the late 70's/early 80's) Add to that, the disparate sentencing requirements for crack cocaine offenses and you have yourself a surefire way to tear a community apart. (not blaming anyone here just saying)

And, today, though blacks only make up 30% or so of the American population, there are more black men incarcerated than any other racial/ethnic group in this country. That is indicative of problems in our community AND an unjust judicial system.

Next, hip hop, which started out extremely powerful and POSITIVE, took an unfortunate turn for the worst around about 1987. When West Coast gangster rap hit the scene and a subsequent east coast/west coast war ensued. It eventually became a heated competition between both coasts to OUT GANGSTER one another....meanwhile....this conveyed a message to our children that the harder and more gangster you are, the more respect you will get, the more valued you are. So boys are carrying guns. Selling drugs so that they can get that ride and be the man in their neighborhood. Etc. This increased the volatile nature of the lyrics. Increased the misogyny of the lyrics and the videos. And, diverted our youth's desire to seek personal power toward negativity as a path to power rather than achievement as the path to power. Unfortunately, I blame hip hop artists AND parents for this equally and there is some blame to be laid at the feet of the record labels who peddle this filth and make more money than all the artists combined. But, there is a lack of self responsibility that these rappers have taken from about 1987 on up to now...with the exception of a rare few...when they could have refused to be a vehicle to perpetuate this degenerative culture, yet, instead, they chose the cash payout and the fame.

By now, we are seeing our first MAJOR wave of out of wedlock pregnancies in our community. Girls are seeking the love that daddy couldn't give them because he was either a) strung out on drugs (which he got hooked on during the war or began when crack hit the streets) and jobless b) lost his mind after he came home from the war (was probably on drugs or an alcoholic and was jobless or c) in and out of her life because he and mommy were divorced in the late 70's/early 80's. So, we now have babies raising babies. And, the two biggest problems with babies raising babies is 1) abandonment of higher education in pursuit of having and supporting a family and 2) young mothers lack the appropriate discernment to be effective parents.

THEREFORE...you have a teenager raising a daughter who she allows to emulate the video vixens she sees on BET's hip hop videos when she's only 3 which will contribute to the cycle we see happening. That child will grow up confused, promiscuous and believing that her self worth is tied to her sexuality. You have ANOTHER absentee father because the teenaged dad is a baby himself and just as confused as she is. You have the children of these CHILDREN repeating the CYCLE of OOW births over and over and over again until now, one woman is a grandmother at 33 and another is a great-grandmother at 46. All the while...that discernment to steer a child away from a life of crime and ill-repute and towards education, achievement and productivity is largely lacking. It's not that they were lazy mothers...they simply lacked a reference point from which to develop a game plan for their OWN future, let alone their child's future.

I know this to be a fact. I have seen families where if the parents were clueless about education and college and how to get there, then ALL of the children would follow suit. Of course, there are some pearls amidst the madness...unique individuals who, despite their environment, found a way to be different and excel in the real world. But, even Freakanomics admits that children of educated families are far more successful educationally and in life.

And, fast forward to today...for sure, there are disparities in opportunity for blacks over the past 35 years that have substantially contributed as well. Institutionalized racism in education, employment and housing as well as a welfare system that discouraged families in favor of single-parent run homes. Additionally, there is a balance as well with the justice system which indiscriminately punishes black males to a greater intensity than other groups for the same crimes in question. And, once you are caught up in the penal system you are as good as dead because the recidivism rate among ex-cons is through the roof. They become a product of a penal system that is not designed to rehabilitate and a society that will not allow them to integrate back in after they have been released (you cannot vote if you are a felon in a lot of states, no one will hire you if you have a felony crime conviction) And, let's not forget the monstrous THREE STRIKES rule which put away hundreds of thousands of men for LIFE. Those problems are external but they had a real impact as well.

But, I am willing to bet that if we began to value family and marriage again, and if we put education on the top of the list of priorities again, and if our hip hop artists were to begin to gravitate toward cleaner, more inspiring music, that we could address a lot of our own setbacks. But, just like it took 35 years for us to get to this condition, it will take a while to clean it up.

[172]

The flip side of that...since this thread is entitled "Racism in America".

As a black, female, graduate student, I want everyone to know that there is a chasm between whites and blacks. Often unspoken, often unacknowledged. Yet, black people deal with it as a reality in their lives. I have spoken with friends of mine who happen to be white who really felt that nobody gets discriminated against JUST because of their skin color.

Unfortunately, this is untrue. This happens all the time. I was just followed in a department store two days ago while I was trying on dresses for an upcoming vacation. And, he waited for me outside the dressing rooms. He followed me through the racks. He waited for me at the door while I checked out, presumably in case the alarms were going to go off when I left...he was going to be ready. Ironically, I didn't even think much of it and wasn't upset because it's not nearly the first time I've been followed in a store and it certainly will not be the last. He wasn't looking for my pedigree. He didn't assume I could be a law student (which I am). He didn't look into my eyes to see all of the years and years of sacrifice and encouragement and support that my parents and family have raised me with. All he saw was a black girl with a bunch of dresses and he determined I was a sure bet to be a thief.

My father has been pulled over countless times...because he's a black man with a nice car who lives in a white suburb. One of my black law professors was held by FOUR officers with guns drawn in his own YARD in broad daylight after coming from the alleyway behind his house (where he was picking up trash that had been left). He lives in a very prestigious historical district. All of his neighbors tried to tell the officers "he lives here! he's a law professor"...but they were steady pulling his arms behind his back. PROFILING is real and it happens to most if not all blacks as a matter of course.

What if your son, who is as gentle as a kitten, but wearing a hoodie and baggy jeans, scares the living daylights out of a white person just because he steps on the elevator with him? They can't SEE all of the love and guidance you've placed in him....and you know what? He still won't get the benefit of the doubt...if he's black. You'll clutch your purse tighter, or lock your doors or cross the street. This kind of thing was addressed in the movie CRASH.

I cannot speak for all blacks, but I will say that overwhelmingly, the blacks with whom I have spoken about profiling all feel the same sentiment...that we wish white people would accept and acknowledge that it does happen. Most don't. They refuse to believe it. Refuse to admit it. Refuse to accept it and tell us we are paranoid. But, remember, we are only 45 years up from Jim Crow. That's a drop in the bucket of social evolution. Things have changed with race relations, but there is much that remains unchanged and, sadly, unchallenged.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by 172

I cannot speak for all blacks, but I will say that overwhelmingly, the blacks with whom I have spoken about profiling all feel the same sentiment...that we wish white people would accept and acknowledge that it does happen. Most don't. They refuse to believe it. Refuse to admit it. Refuse to accept it and tell us we are paranoid. But, remember, we are only 45 years up from Jim Crow. That's a drop in the bucket of social evolution. Things have changed with race relations, but there is much that remains unchanged and, sadly, unchallenged.

I had no idea that so many people tried to deny that racial profiling was happening. I thought everyone realized that is does happen. Maybe the people who deny it is happening are the ones who want to pretend like racism went away with the civil rights movement.

[172]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

I had no idea that so many people tried to deny that racial profiling was happening. I thought everyone realized that is does happen. Maybe the people who deny it is happening are the ones who want to pretend like racism went away with the civil rights movement.

Yes, the Civil Rights movement and now living in a world that was able to elect a black President, many feel we are indeed living in a post-racial society. Younger generations who were born in the mid 80's on up tend to have a varied response. Anything from "my best friend is black, we grew up together" and "I can see that there is a problem in the black community and I know that blacks have had a challenged history in this country" to "racism doesn't happen anymore" and "I don't see why the New York Post was wrong for printing the cartoon of the ape with the stimulus bill -- it was just a joke aimed at congress" (even though it was printed right next to a picture of President Obama signing the stimulus bill.)

I think it's older generations that are less likely to not understand, although, understandably everyone involved would prefer it would just go away. They may pretend or avoid acknowledgement because it's uncomfortable...negative energy. But, they know deep down it is still there. But, as we well know, this is no way to solve a problem which is why it subsists.

[openeyes]

I was born in '84, in a rural part of North Carolina 30 minutes outside Charlotte. Though I have had black friends and such (not as best friends though), I don't question the reality of racial profiling. I know that I have things much easier as a result simply of being white.

I also acknowledge a divide, although I see it as more cultural than racial, with it being easiest and most interesting for me to relate to happy, fulfilled, upper middle class people (usually but not always white) versus people who've led a difficult life and are apt to continue having difficulty. (depressed upper middle class people don't fit in my life well either)

ps: I just added Crash to the top of my netflix queue to see what I learn from it.

[TwinsSign]

I am also from NC and have felt the race separation my whole life, as a child I traveled along the coast with my parents who are marine biologists and very anti-racism. I am white and in places like Jamaica, i remember race was not a big deal, i had an older black friend who was like a grandfather to me for a short time and i loved him without even noticing he was black, to me he was just a Jamaican man who loved boats and helped my father make repairs on the boat we lived on. He came over for dinner a lot and my dad and him loved to talk about sailing, he was intelligent and kind. A truly good person. When we settled down in coastal NC I couldn't understand the negative energy i felt emitting whenever most blacks and whites were together. As children I think we are much more in tune with energy fields. White people had a forced politeness and black people had a quite resentment.. it made me sick, many of my childhood friends were black and i did not like them and their families viewing me as "White", I just wanted to be me and have them be who they were. My best friend growing up was Filipino and he was an amazing person and I loved his mothers Filipino cooking but there was no separation between us. I wish thats how it was, that we all could enjoy our differences like different flavors in a food but enjoy them most when they are combined into a great dish. 4 of my closest friends are black right now and 2 are asian, and about 10 are white, we are close enough that we dont see the color. I do agree with the Thread Starter, Black culture in America is working against Oneness, Rappers seem to fuel and celebrate the difference and separation instead of encouraging their art & culture for all to enjoy. Its not their fault, they have been shown much injustice by people who see the world in a horrible way, but embracing that same idea by isolating themselves only makes it worse. I applaud Obama for being so inclusive of all races.. thats the way it should be.. its what people do thats important and how they act and create, not how they look. I hate when a person from a different race assumes I am intolerant, they wouldn't want me to make assumptions about them, Its something every race should work at or else the problem will just get worse. Love everyone and it will only make us all better, anyone who is a miserable negative person to be around will only be improved by the magic of love and acceptance and it will drive them to change and grow to their full potential.

[MidasGirl]

It will change. Change takes time. But we all want it to happen like yesterday. I view the issue of racism, and all it's subtle siblings, as part of the test of human evolution. Just the fact that a person can see themselves as superior to another because of a factor as arbitrary as skin color is enough proof that we really do have a long way to go. I mean think about it, it would be like Prince Harry seeing himself as superior as a human being because he was born a prince.

But you can't force spiritual evolution. It's a process. The problem also arises because black people, because of centuries of abuse and oppression, and now self-abuse, also sometimes play into the same insidious crazy game of seeing themselves as inferior to others. Which sometimes manifest as "being too negative" as someone pointed out above, or even aggression for self preservation purposes.

It's gonna be a long journey. We are all in it together. I'm very pleased that the majority of the younger generation is more and more unattuned to race as a divisive factor.

[JSB]

Originally Posted by openeyes

...
ps: I just added Crash to the top of my netflix queue to see what I learn from it.

Do yourself a favor and delete it! There are good movies out there about race, but Crash is a turd in a punch bowl.

[MidasGirl]

I loved Crash. In fact its one of the few movie DVD's I actually bought for my collection. Oh and btw, it's been on Netflix No. 1 (in top 100 most requested) for the last probably two years. Rent it and make up your own mind if you like it or not openeyes.

But "Freedom Writers" featuring Hilary Swank is also another good one and is based on a true story.

[LifeFirst]

So you liked how the Asian people were represented in the film Crash???


I liked how every other race got an equal chance to be sympathized in that film, but except those Asian guys.....how "racist" was that??

[Brutha]

There's also the fact that there are so many different facets of American culture, cliques, groups, etc. Political groups, hobbiest groups, religious groups, socioeconomic groups, professional groups... all have their own sub-culture, their own jargon, their own styles of dress. Is that different than a sub-culture based on skin color?

You can choose whether to join a given hobbiest group or quit it but you can't do the same thing with skin color.

But in the end humans are herd animals and do form groups. Our morality is largely build on the fact that we consider ourselves to be part of a group of people who don't do bad thinks like stealing.
Believing that you can completely eliminate groups without also eliminating a lot of what makes us human is naive.

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by Brutha

You can choose whether to join a given hobbiest group or quit it but you can't do the same thing with skin color.

You can't change your skin color, but you can choose whether to join a group or club that is based on skin color.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Rent it and make up your own mind if you like it or not openeyes.

On a lighthearted note, it reinforced the need for good driver's ed It seemed that rather than trying to dispel stereotypes, the film sought to bring them out in the open. This could work fine when it's watched in a group setting where people are open to discussion afterward (apparently my girlfriend was in a class where they did just that).

[Milena]

Thought this was sad

YouTube - A Girl Like Me

[eliaino]

Originally Posted by 172

Third, ECONOMICS.Jim Crow forced us to rely on our own commerce to survive. So, we were entreprenuers. We worked and brought our money the only place we were permitted to spend it....our own community. So, the economic wealth was solid and consistent through and through. Our segregated neighborhoods would have looked much like you see a Little Italy or a Chinatown today. It wasn't much...but it was ours and we took care of it well and we benefitted from the environment...and I believe the psychic environment was the driving force that kept blacks on focus and of the most altruistic mindset toward our own communities.

This reminds me of something a friend of mine, from Hungary, told me about how Hungary had suffered since the Soviet Union fell. Hungary suffered terribly under the Soviet regime; in 1956, when they try to break free, the Russians crushed them mercilessly. To this day probably any Hungarian you meet will be very bitter and, yes, racist against the Russians for their occupation. But after the Iron curtain collapsed, all the protections were gone. There was no price fixing. Hungary was just another little country in a big world, having to compete for the first time in 45 years against other countries with more resources. During this latest crisis Hungary has suffered horribly, the forint (their currency) is worth much less, and there is less protection for them. And they suddenly went from having one enemy (the Russians) to having many false or maybe false friends or frenemies.

Next, hip hop, which started out extremely powerful and POSITIVE, took an unfortunate turn for the worst around about 1987. When West Coast gangster rap hit the scene and a subsequent east coast/west coast war ensued. It eventually became a heated competition between both coasts to OUT GANGSTER one another....meanwhile....this conveyed a message to our children that the harder and more gangster you are, the more respect you will get, the more valued you are...

when they could have refused to be a vehicle to perpetuate this degenerative culture, yet, instead, they chose the cash payout and the fame.

To be honest I don't understand this mentality. I can understand it in a sort of clinical sense, like if somebody went off the deep end when their child died, but I don't get why a young person, with brains and ambition, would throw their life away just to keep their friends from making fun of them. It's not just about race, I don't think, for all the reasons you mentioned, like a weak family unit.

172, do you think there is any way for people to escape this cycle of negativity and lift others out of it? Someone mentioned that the best black families escape from these ghetto situations, and I can't blame them, but the result is it just makes the situation worse.

Do you think Obama can help inspire black people, and maybe other minorities, to go in to politics? I hope so--but it seems like there were minority politicians in office before Obama. Not many, it's true. But do you think if, say, 30 of the Senate seats were taken up by minorities, instead of 2, would this be better or just be a "symbolic" victory?

Is it possible to create community when it's been ripped apart? I don't think you can legislate it, or throw money at the problem. Something like urban planning might help, but only to some extent. I'm just thinking aloud here, what's your opinion?

from my own perspective: I used to live in Berkeley, California, near campus. The neighborhood was mostly students (40% asian, 30% white), and affluent white people. Even though I think Berkeley was something like 15 or 20% black, and Oakland was even more than that, you'd never guess it from the street. The only black people I saw on a day to day basis were homeless people and shop assistants. I know that a lot of times I felt like black people were angry at me but they were very quiet about it, and I "stiffened up" and put on a sort of polite mask. This was really unpleasant and, frankly, made me afraid around black people. When I was in Belgium I was very surprised--as in, I literally did double takes--when African people didn't glare at me or try to stare me down in the street. I remember when one guy flirted with me, I thought something was wrong--like any second he was going to stop being friendly and get upset.

Racism is still a problem everywhere. It is more of a problem in some places than others, but we shouldn't pretend it isn't a problem, for us as well as for the wider community. (How can you say "I'm not racist" in a racist society? I don't think you can.) Think about the Roma in central and eastern europe, who still face tremendous obstacles to their integration into wider society despite having lived there for hundreds of years. It is not a war to be won in a generation, I think.