Compulsory Public Schooling is Dumbing Down our Kids

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Lil Chris

Were their any legal requirements you had to fulfill to do that...?

It varies by state. A summary of the Missouri laws can be found here: http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/Missouri.pdf

[geekchic9]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Not really, a Kindergarten is traditionally a place where children were encouraged to play together and didn't had to learn material that their teacher gave them.

That's not true anymore. Here is a 33-page PDF that lists standards that children in kindergarten are supposed to meet in the state of Texas.

Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills -- Kindergarten

[geekchic9]

Originally Posted by Brutha

The US voted for the the Universal declaration of human rights in the general assembly of the UN

Don't compare apples and oranges. You're talking about the UN Declaration of Human Rights. I'm talking about the Convention on the Rights of the Child which was ratified by every UN member except for the United States and Somalia.

The United States government played an active role in the drafting of the Convention and signed it on 16 February 1995, but has not ratified it.[1] Opposition to the Convention is in part due to what are seen as potential conflicts with the constitution and because of opposition by some political and religious conservatives.[23] The two reasons often given for the US Senate not ratifying the Convention were that the State of Texas allows children to be given the death penalty, which the Convention would not allow, and that it would undermine parents' rights.[24] The Heritage Foundation sees the conflict as an issue of national control over domestic policy.[25] President-elect Barack Obama has described the failure to ratify the Convention as 'embarrassing' and has promised to review this.[26]

See the difference?

[Gregorz]

I honestly think most of society's problems are exacerbated, if not caused, by our atrocious system of education. It conditions people into thinking that learning should be uncomfortable and boring, rote memorization of facts. It's no surprise that upon leaving school, most adults don't actively seek to continue learning and growing. They're glad to have it 'over with'.

If I ever have kids, I'd like to homeschool them myself. The only problem is keeping them socially adjusted, but I guess it's good to learn alternate methods of meeting friends besides school early. Since I never did, I became severely depressed after leaving school because I wasn't making any new friends to replace the old ones that I was gradually starting to see less of. I'm far better off now, though I'm still working on getting rid of the social blocks.

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by Lil Chris

Were their any legal requirements you had to fulfill to do that...?

All I had to do was sign a withdrawal from the school they were attending at the time and than I went down to the BOE and signed a paper stating that I was going to homeschool the kids
now all I do is send a monthly attendance form and a yearly evaluation of their progress
I basically can follow any curriculum I want to and I do

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

All that is necessary, is teaching a child a few basics, and then get OUT of the way, and let them fly

It's not necessary to teach basics, either, as long as you're living a rich, active life. Kids pick up absolutely everything they need, when they need it - which somewhat answers this question:

Originally Posted by schola

How much trust should we give the child in educating themselves and deciding how to utilize their education. I'm especially interested in the unschooling perspective on this.

I don't think of it as educating themselves - I think of it as living! And the kids learn everything they need. There are some misconceptions out there - unschooling, for me, doesn't mean leaving the kids completely on their own. It is a deeply connected way of life. By giving my kids trust and respect, and allowing them to make their own choices (I don't control food, video games, bedtimes, computer time, etc.), they know when I offer my opinion on something, I'm not trying to coerce or manipulate them into something. So they listen! They don't always make the choice I wish they would - but they are their own people! They're not little me's.

So of course, they can utilize their "education" any way they wish, and I will do all I can to support their choices.

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Yes, every US-state has different rules, to satisfy, Check here: HSLDA | Home School Laws

I don't go to hslda for anything - they are a conservative Christian organization. They often overstate requirements, and will not defend unschooling. It's easy to find your own state's laws and requirements by googling, without going through hslda.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by carenkh

It's not necessary to teach basics, either, as long as you're living a rich, active life. Kids pick up absolutely everything they need, when they need it - which somewhat answers this question:



I don't think of it as educating themselves - I think of it as living! And the kids learn everything they need. There are some misconceptions out there - unschooling, for me, doesn't mean leaving the kids completely on their own. It is a deeply connected way of life. By giving my kids trust and respect, and allowing them to make their own choices (I don't control food, video games, bedtimes, computer time, etc.), they know when I offer my opinion on something, I'm not trying to coerce or manipulate them into something. So they listen! They don't always make the choice I wish they would - but they are their own people! They're not little me's.

So of course, they can utilize their "education" any way they wish, and I will do all I can to support their choices.



I don't go to hslda for anything - they are a conservative Christian organization. They often overstate requirements, and will not defend unschooling. It's easy to find your own state's laws and requirements by googling, without going through hslda.

This is basically how I raised my last 3. I didn't know any better for the first two until they were already in jr hs. I could not be more pleased as a parent as to the people my children have become up to this point.

To be honest though I do often worry that I've neglected to give my kids some needed tools to get ahead in a society that is geared competitively as ours is (U.S. citizen). So I worry for them financially at times. However, I remember that I was a total resister to school and am doing okay. My wife was labeled as slow in her school and I could not have married a better person for me....she's sexy and smart.

I'm a believer that if any kind of institutional type of education is going to continue, then a self paced program is the way to go instead of this one size fits all approach we have now.

politicians seem to think that tweaking the current system will someday transform it into something it can never be if only they would apply the magic tweak. Will never happen

The best description I've ever heard of our current system is: "school teaches us to take life sitting down".

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by carenkh

I don't go to hslda for anything - they are a conservative Christian organization. They often overstate requirements, and will not defend unschooling. It's easy to find your own state's laws and requirements by googling, without going through hslda.

Thanks for pointing that out. I googled and hslda was the first link hence my posting it for Lil Chris. Of course we can find the laws by googling, but do you have any specific links related to unschooling to share? I'm just interested in reading more about it and wonder what you would recommend.

[Brutha]

That's not true anymore. Here is a 33-page PDF that lists standards that children in kindergarten are supposed to meet in the state of Texas.

Yes, times have changed the concept, but those people who thought up the concept of the kindergarten aren't to blame.

Don't compare apples and oranges. You're talking about the UN Declaration of Human Rights. I'm talking about the Convention on the Rights of the Child which was ratified by every UN member except for the United States and Somalia.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights still says that every child has the right to compulsory elementary education with happens to be what this thread is about and what was the core of my argument that you attacked.

You might be right that child labor isn't explicitly mentioned but the core of this thread is compulsory education, additionally I think that arguing to remove child labor laws will be hard in the US.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

do you have any specific links related to unschooling to share? I'm just interested in reading more about it and wonder what you would recommend.

I couldn't tell if you needed info re: laws & unschooling, or general unschooling links. Here are general links:

* Parenting a Free Child
* Dayna Martin's Unschooling YouTube Series
* Joyfully Rejoycing
* Sandra Dodd's Unschooling Collection
* Unschooling America
* Unschooling.info

There are numerous e-mail lists - my favorite is Radical Unschooling with the Law of Attraction. (what a great fit!) Most e-mail lists welcome people with questions about unschooling, even if you're not yet unschoolers.

In terms of the law & unschooling, I've found it best to join a local unschooling list and find out how others handle it - after learning your state's laws, of course! NHELD is an alternative to HSLDA.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by carenkh

I couldn't tell if you needed info re: laws & unschooling, or general unschooling links. Here are general links:

* Parenting a Free Child
* Dayna Martin's Unschooling YouTube Series
* Joyfully Rejoycing
* Sandra Dodd's Unschooling Collection
* Unschooling America
* Unschooling.info

There are numerous e-mail lists - my favorite is Radical Unschooling with the Law of Attraction. (what a great fit!) Most e-mail lists welcome people with questions about unschooling, even if you're not yet unschoolers.

In terms of the law & unschooling, I've found it best to join a local unschooling list and find out how others handle it - after learning your state's laws, of course! NHELD is an alternative to HSLDA.

Thank you!! I'll take it all. I want to be prepared before I have the kiddos. I've got plenty of time, but I like to learn and get resources from people who's opinion I trust and who are successfully doing unschooling. I will check all of these out.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Thank you!! I'll take it all. I want to be prepared before I have the kiddos. I've got plenty of time, but I like to learn and get resources from people who's opinion I trust and who are successfully doing unschooling. I will check all of these out.

For inspiration, you may like to read Soule Mama's blog, an incredibly compassionate and creative unschooling mother of 4. I love her posts, her pictures and stories always put me in a great, optimistic mood. She posted some recommended readings in her "about" section.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by aelle

For inspiration, you may like to read Soule Mama's blog, an incredibly compassionate and creative unschooling mother of 4. I love her posts, her pictures and stories always put me in a great, optimistic mood. She posted some recommended readings in her "about" section.

Oh, how I love Soule Mama! I am often moved to tears by her posts - especially when Soule Papa takes over!

There are lots and lots and lots of unschooling blogs.

And unschooling conferences! That is a very powerful way to *see* unschooling in action, and connect with other like-minded folks.

Life is Good
Great Big Happy Life
We Shine
Good Vibrations

The Live & Learn Conference will be no more, but you can still download & listen to talks from past conferences - just click "store".

Books by John Holt are good to read, too - he gets more radical in his views in his later books.

[geekchic9]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Yes, times have changed the concept, but those people who thought up the concept of the kindergarten aren't to blame.

OK . . . so what's your point? And why aren't they to blame?

Originally Posted by Brutha

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights still says that every child has the right to compulsory elementary education with happens to be what this thread is about and what was the core of my argument that you attacked.

The people of this thread are discussing all types of education and its philosophies at any child's age, not just elementary school. So, limiting the discussion to just elementary school is not what this thread is about. I'm wondering if you focusing on this indicates that you believe it's been decided that homeschooling should be illegal at the elementary school level. That's the only sense I can make of it.

Originally Posted by Brutha

You might be right that child labor isn't explicitly mentioned but the core of this thread is compulsory education, additionally I think that arguing to remove child labor laws will be hard in the US.

You keep on steering off-topic to child-labor laws, and I don't know why. Since when is homeschooling (from the child's POV or the parent's POV) child labor?

[carenkh]

I found this essay, written by a 15-year-old, who went to school for one year (freshman in high school) after being unschooled his entire life. It's an interesting perspective!

Unschool vs. School

One of my favorite quotes: "Every thought you have, dream you want to fulfill, inspiration that strikes you, it all goes on the back burner, and eventually you just forget how to live any other way altogether."

I think if he hung around with more unschoolers, at the end of his essay, he wouldn't see going to college, hanging out, or more school as his only options.

[schola]

I came across some quotes by Thomas Jefferson, who I greatly admire and found out that he actually supported public schooling. However, he didn't agree with compulsory schooling and his views diverge greatly from the views of education reforms of today and the past. I think he had to right idea on how a public school system should function.

I want to bring back the quote I posted earlier for a comparison. This is from the American Association of School Administrators website:

Public Schools: "If you look back in history, you will find that the core mission of public education in America was to create places of civic virtue for our children and for our society.

Translation: School's main objective is to teach people how to be good citizens of the state. But here's a quote from Thomas Jefferson, who was instrumental in getting schools built across the country:

"The objects of... primary education [which] determine its character and limits [are]: To give to every citizen the information he needs for the transaction of his own business; to enable him to calculate for himself, and to express and preserve his ideas, his contracts and accounts in writing; to improve, by reading, his morals and faculties; to understand his duties to his neighbors and country, and to discharge with competence the functions confided to him by either; to know his rights; to exercise with order and justice those he retains, to choose with discretion the fiduciary of those he delegates; and to notice their conduct with diligence, with candor and judgment; and in general, to observe with intelligence and faithfulness all the social relations under which he shall be placed." --Thomas Jefferson: Report for University of Virginia, 1818.

Notice the difference? There's a focus on the individual. Giving the individual the tools he needs to function in this world. No nonsense about civic virtue.

He had this to say about compulsory schooling:

"Is it a right or a duty in society to take care of their infant members in opposition to the will of the parent? How far does this right and duty extend? --to guard the life of the infant, his property, his instruction, his morals? The Roman father was supreme in all these: we draw a line, but where? --public sentiment does not seem to have traced it precisely... It is better to tolerate the rare instance of a parent refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings and ideas by the forcible asportation and education of the infant against the will of the father... What is proposed... is to remove the objection of expense, by offering education gratis, and to strengthen parental excitement by the disfranchisement of his child while uneducated. Society has certainly a right to disavow him whom they offer, and are permitted to qualify for the duties of a citizen. If we do not force instruction, let us at least strengthen the motives to receive it when offered." --Thomas Jefferson: Note to Elementary School Act, 1817. ME 17:423

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by carenkh

I found this essay, written by a 15-year-old, who went to school for one year (freshman in high school) after being unschooled his entire life. It's an interesting perspective!

Unschool vs. School

One of my favorite quotes: "Every thought you have, dream you want to fulfill, inspiration that strikes you, it all goes on the back burner, and eventually you just forget how to live any other way altogether."

I think if he hung around with more unschoolers, at the end of his essay, he wouldn't see going to college, hanging out, or more school as his only options.

I loved reading that thank you

[lifetimelearner]

school was torture for me when I was younger
not only do you have to deal with kids personalities
you have to deal with some of the teachers too

it wasn't until I left my abusive husband that my eyes were opened to the possibilty of how the schools systems were 'killing' my kids freedom of individuality

I used to get mad when my kids would not wake up and get ready for school
I had to bribe and threaten them

I look back now and think -I was a terrible parent then

my oldest graduated from high school before I left my husband

my 2nd born was in 10th grade ,my 3rd in 9th,and my youngest in 6th when I pulled them out of school

you wouldn't believe the flack I got from everyone

but if I had to do it all over again I would have done it sooner

my 2nd is now one of the managers of a major grocery store and he isn't even 21 yet

my 3rd is writing stories,drawing and works part-time at the same grocery store -he wants to be a writer
and he shall

the youngest is afraid he will be dumber than everyone when in fact he tells me things he learns that I never heard of -and he probably would not have learned this in school

in my opinion some schools take away your freedom to express the true you
I said some schools because I know there are different types of schools out there that cater to individuality -usually they are expensive and limited in openings



I am not saying that school 'dumbed me down'
but it certainly conformed me to the point where it has taken me years to figure out who I truly am

My mother saved most of my school records and I see notes all over them that say I fought being conformed:

she will not take a nap when told too-I was 4
she will not sit still in class-I was 5
she will not draw in the lines -I was 6
she will not contribute to class discussion-I was shy and I still am

[Fullcrum]

I wonder - could you unschool and still get into an exceptional college like Harvard if you have the achievements in your major to back it up?

I mean, really, I want to go the medical/science route, but I don't know if unschooling would allow me to do that in the way I want, which is to go to the best institutions in the country and learn from some of the most respected professors in the world.

Are there any stories of unschooling or homeschooling kids making it into great colleges in the modern day?

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

Are there any stories of unschooling or homeschooling kids making it into great colleges in the modern day?

Many colleges actively seek out homeschoolers and unschoolers because they still have a passion for learning, and are self-directed and interested in what they're doing. I googled "unschoolers in Harvard" and pulled up bunches of links and stories.

If you have a passion for medicine, unschooling would let you delve into that as deeply as you wish - no superfluous classes or time-wasters. You will learn everything you need if you immerse yourself in what you love!

Graduates of Sudbury Valley School, which isn't unschooling, but allows students to do as they wish all day, almost always get into their first-choice college - and SVS doesn't write letters of recommendation!

[Dan.Linehan]

I am officially in love with the Sudbury model. Thank you so much carenkh.

[funchy]

It's also that public schools are controlled by administrators who are "just doing a job".

The teachers: bad ones stay if they get tenure. Good ones may not last long enough to get tenure, especially if they challenge the status quo.

The parents: too many parents think education is everyone else's job but their own.

The voters: They fund the schools by throwing more money at the problem but never fixing what is broken. Then push for their elected officials to pass laws like state standardized tests for grade-school kids, and the teachers have no choice but to teach to a test.

The culture: we're in a culture of people who whine "why do we need school". We idolize rock stars and football players, not the student who got a PhD and developed an effective treatment for cancer. Our entire culture, economy, and values put so much emphasis on fame and making-it-big and there's so little emphasis on hard work, goals, planning, and focus.



And then we wonder why the average American has problems writing a simple letter or reading a contract.


One thing I'd like to add: I went to a parochial school for grades 1-8. It followed a similar structure, # of classes, and standard textbooks. Except in that school kids weren't allowed to goof off. We did our work and teachers expected (and got) the best out of each of us. Later, when I switched to go to a public high school I was so far AHEAD of all the out kids because they had been in public school. They struggled with basic arithmetic & algebra. The highschool didn't know what to do with me, and they didn't want to skip me forward a grade. It was the most boring 4 yrs of my life !

[Keith]

Originally Posted by schola

My findings? Here's the bombshell and the reason why billions of dollars can't seem to solve declining test scores: The United States public school system, imported from Prussia in the 1840s, is not designed to educate.

I'm sick of hearing this argument. It may surprise you to learn that the US education system is not the same as it was in the 1840s. There have been numerous educational reforms in that time, both deliberately mandated and naturally evolved.

If you have an educational system that better prepares kids for the real world, then invest in making it real. You'll make a ton of money, and it will quickly render the existing system obsolete.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Keith

I'm sick of hearing this argument. It may surprise you to learn that the US education system is not the same as it was in the 1840s. There have been numerous educational reforms in that time, both deliberately mandated and naturally evolved.

If you have an educational system that better prepares kids for the real world, then invest in making it real. You'll make a ton of money, and it will quickly render the existing system obsolete.

Right now, the graduation rate for metropolitan school districts is frequently less than 50%. There are kids dealing crack in middle schools. There is frequently rampant violence in schools that simply goes unchecked.

@ Keith, I'm curious, what exactly would you know about any of that? Did you go to school here in the US before you moved to Australia? Did you graduate via the American educational system? How do you know so much about it? Precisely where did you hear about our educational system so frequently that it made you "sick"? Because I live here and I rarely hear rational, lively or intellectual discussions about it..

As far as a better educational system, there some better options. As Funchy stated above, there are private schools that are miles ahead of the public school systems. Most parents, however, cannot afford $6k / year for private education. And the private schools hardly make a "ton of money" as you suggest they should.

[Fullcrum]

Whoa, I just drank up that website, Sudbury Valley.

I don't think I'll ever public school my kids. Now I'm aware of other options. Thanks for all that guys.

[CelebritiCat]

Every child I have ever observed began school with a natural love of learning, and most of them within a couple years tolerate "education" at best. It's natural to love learning if no one manages to destroy that affinity by forcefeeding a bland, passionless "education".

My six-year-old nephew started kindergarten this year, and after Christmas break, he told his mother he was no longer "interested" in school. Now, he is still very interested in learning, and I hope and pray that his "education" doesn't destroy his love of learning.

I don't understand why after learning the basics kids can't be allowed to pursue their education by following their interests. With the plethora of books, educational software programs and the internet, all that would be needed would be someone to be on hand for students to request guidance as needed.

Kids could write papers and make presentations to demonstrate what they have learned, and a portfolio could be created for each student to demonstrate accomplishments as opposed to grades.

What good are grades except to classify people and establish a pecking order? I found it easy to make A's and B's in school, but the things I retained were things that mattered to me, things that interested me or things I found useful. That's probably a common experience.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Precisely where did you hear about our educational system so frequently that it made you "sick"?

That particular argument turns up on the internet a lot.

Note incidentally that I'm not saying the US school system doesn't have its problems. I'm just saying that "It was founded for purpose X" doesn't mean a lot when a century has passed since then.

The same argument pops up a lot in dietary arguments too; "it's healthiest to eat X 'cos cavemen did!", for example (ignoring amongst other things that we live much more sedentary lives now, and have a much wider range of food options - ie. that things changed).

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

@ Keith, I'm curious, what exactly would you know about any of that?

I confess, mostly from hearing about it on the internet. I can't vouch for how rational, lively or intellectual the discussions were, though.

I'm not an expert on the topic, I just find that particular argument annoyingly flawed. If someone wants to say there are flaws in the educational system, why not point out those flaws rather than cast aspersions on its long-dead creators.

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

As far as a better educational system, there some better options. As Funchy stated above, there are private schools that are miles ahead of the public school systems. Most parents, however, cannot afford $6k / year for private education. And the private schools hardly make a "ton of money" as you suggest they should.

Which raises the question "why not?". Most parents can't afford that much, but many parents can. Why aren't people flocking to these schools in droves?

And if it works so well, why aren't other schools copying them?

[Fullcrum]

Originally Posted by Declaration of Independence of the United States of America

When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation

Keith, to answer your last question, the question on why parents have not flocked in droves to the best educational facilities in the country, it is simply because most people are not aware of these things.

What "impels" me to my "separation" from the public school system? Why do I fight the system I am a part of? I am in public schools, have been so my whole life and continue to attend a public high school. Indeed, what's the use of questioning the public school system at all if I'm here on Steve Pavlina's forum questioning my beliefs and creating a life of my own design? After all, am I not a product of the public school system?

To question the status quo never comes to mind in most people. Social conditioning, the flawed education system, and an unconscious corporate culture leaves people with little choice. People "got bills to pay". People "got games to watch". People "got things to do". Of course. Such brilliant excuses keep people trapped in a depression and depravity for years.

Who would think that eating mostly raw plant foods could give one tons of energy, enough energy and clarity of thought to quit your f*cking day job and create a life of your own design? Who would think that there are better things than public schools out there? Face it: most people will never think of discussing a topic like this in today's world. How often does this topic come up in the news? Any takers?

Most people are trapped in a mirage, a mirage that has led countless weary men to die of thirst in a desert of solitude and moderation, of compromise and condemnation. We are the extremists, discussing extreme topics because it is the extremist who leads society in a direction of his or her own choosing. It is the moderate who never questions, who never wonders what lies in the mysterious beyond, for fear of failure, for fear of losing comfort, for fear of their ego.

It does not matter that parents today are not sending their children "in droves" to better places of education. Not many parents feed their kids lots of fresh, raw vegetables, or create conditions conducive to the development of genius intellect and abilities with a child. It's not anyone's fault in particular. But the time of standing idly by and following the masses is over. It is us, in the pursuit of conscious growth, who must pave the way, must be first, must break the world records and be heralded for bringing light to darkness.

Like the clouds that hide the rays of sun and sow destruction through a dry field of wheat, so too are the dark clouds of oppression casting their destructive sparks of weakness and co-dependence suffocating the beacon of light within every man, woman and child today.

This will not be so. The clouds will pass; we will make them pass. The sun will shine once more, permeating through the glorious mind of a youth and illuminating the values of self-directed learning, of choice and control over one's own destiny from an early age.

This task we have set ourselves, we cannot ignore. It is a duty of ours to improve everyday, in every way, the conditions of this world, and to allow others to do the same. It is a duty of ours to give all children opportunity, opportunity to grow in the manner most suited to their dispositions. It is our duty, as extremists, as growers, as those whom have moved beyond the clouds of oppression, to make manifest our vision of a world where all children have the opportunity to grow in an accelerated manner, to flourish their genius, and to make brighter this world we live in!

[Brutha]

Keith, to answer your last question, the question on why parents have not flocked in droves to the best educational facilities in the country, it is simply because most people are not aware of these things.

The important thing is whether homeschooling or unschooling is more effective or another way better than other schooling.
It isn't what the Prussians had in mind when they designed their system.

The same argument pops up a lot in dietary arguments too; "it's healthiest to eat X 'cos cavemen did!", for example (ignoring amongst other things that we live much more sedentary lives now, and have a much wider range of food options - ie. that things changed).

It isn't the same argument and the argument in dietary matters for conservatism is better than the argument here.
If you have no effective way to make decisions because you lack the data to establish causality and only have studies that give you rough correlations going with the thing that worked in the past is a reasonable strategy because it worked.
It's about decision making under uncertainty and if you want to know more about that kind of argument I would recommend you Nassim Taleb's The Black Swan.

You keep on steering off-topic to child-labor laws, and I don't know why. Since when is homeschooling (from the child's POV or the parent's POV) child labor?

One of the goals of preventing parents from choosing to keep their children at home is to prevent those children from being exploited as child labor.
Children who are in school can't work at the same time.

Sometimes homeschooling might involve learning a trade. I read of one case when some farmer intended to homeschool kids and wanted to teach them farming by letting them work in his farm. That farmer argued that child labor laws prevent him from teaching children what they will need for their latter lifes as farmers.

[geekchic9]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Sometimes homeschooling might involve learning a trade. I read of one case when some farmer intended to homeschool kids and wanted to teach them farming by letting them work in his farm. That farmer argued that child labor laws prevent him from teaching children what they will need for their latter lifes as farmers.

How strange that a child labor law can prevent a child from pursuing a skill they may want to acquire. Why can't the farmer and his children join an organization like 4-H and count the work on the farm as an extracurricular activity? There are many people who join 4-H already for the agricultural skills they can learn. I wonder if this is a possibility that has been considered.