Andy Pero, Montauk and "The Superman Project"

[trf5150]

I think as everyone is doing right now, researching this new story that Mike has written, and finding that history doesn't match with his account of what happen in 1982... As he told me when he sent me the story, he said you can't look on the internet for the truth, because it's not there.

He knows its not there. So, why go public with this story? No pictures, news clippings, videos that show or talk about him as being a part of the World Cup in 1982. He told me that years ago, with the help of some of the guards in prison, that they found the game he is talking about. The semi-final game online for purchase. When they went to order it, their computer froze. They rebooted and went back to the site where they found the game and it wasn't there anymore...

Is he lying about this? Did he lie to me about this so I wouldn't be discouraged about putting this information out there?.... I don't know... Believe me, I have my doubts at times. The only thing to do is to go to your local library and search through actual newspapers from 1982. The real deal! A real newspaper that you can hold in your hands, not a search on the internet in a newspaper archive. If then, someone can find a news paper talking about the 1982 world cup and not find any evidence of Mike's claims.... Well, then where does that leave us? Or... What if there is evidence of him being a part of the World Cup? Then what???? That would be one of the biggest stories in history! The Mother of all coverups. Time will tell, as I'm sure we will know the reality of it all very soon.

My question is "which" reality? I think of this in a few ways... Is Mike so broken that he is creating his own reality? How many times can you have your memories erased until your brain doesn't know or can't tell the difference between reality and fiction? Did this event really happen in some sort of parallel reality? Universe? Dimention? Could have our time line in this reality been altered? And if it's possible to change the past or future, how does or how will this affect us spiritually, all the way down to the molecular level? Would there be any changes in us? Or would the thread of the altered reality somehow mesh and weave its self into our current reality of consciousness, in a way were these 2 threads would become one and we wouldn't even notice any difference and go about our lives as if nothing has changed?

Or has Mike been given "False" memories during a reprogramming session? This vivid memory of being and participating in the 1982 world cup! So vivid, that he writes about it, believes it and is willing to put his reputation on the line because of it? Something that the "Power that be" are counting on. To totally discredit him and destroy him? Maybe their thinking is, if we can have him go public with this and discredit him, well then... who's to say that everything else "Project Superman" is just a figment of his own elaborate imagination? Just recently Mike said that I must have been involved with some sort of "Mind Control" program, because my background with my father and what he did in the military and my involvement and enlistment in the military. I'm no longer in the military, but should I believe him? All because I have some missing memories while my father was stationed at a training base. Is it normal to just forget a couple years of your life? Yea, I think so. Especially when those are years you could give a **** about. So, do I think I was involved in a "Program" that "Andy" describes? That would be a "HELL NO!" Is it possible? I think anything is possible. And if in fact I might have been part of a project, I don't want to remember! MY CHOICE!

So is Bill Bielek(sp?) lying when he says that he knows that "Andy" was involved with this Mind Control (Super Soldier) program? Or are they all just taking us for a ride? Are these people just jumping on the MK-ULTRA band wagon so they can write books and have conventions about this subject and make money on it all the while?

I think some are and some aren't. Who do we believe then? What do we believe? THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE, YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW WHERE TO LOOK!

[mityno]

The strange coincidences continue...

I ask anyone that is a Soccer or Football (not American football) fan, please tell me how many times a Team is required to win by 2 goals to advance, and is knocked out of the competition (World Cup competition at that) when they only tie the game?

Of all the Teams and all of Pro Sports in all of the years of history, how many times has this freakish outcome ever occurred?

Can anyone find the World Cup rule written anywhere that justifies this?

Even narrator Sean Connery at 1:48 in part 5 (link in previous post #59) said it was, "Against Spain, a bizarre interpretation of the rule book meant they [England] had to win by two clear goals to reach the semi-finals."

As I pondered all of this, I wondered what a "Normal" interpretation of the Rule Book would have rendered in terms of what "should" have happened to the England team. Should they have advanced? Or should they have repeated the match until a winner was determined? What normally happens when there is a tie in World Cup competition?

Is it possible that England did advance and was defeated by Italy and this match was deleted from all revised records and the official history was changed to say that England was eliminated when they tied Spain?

If that is even remotely possible, are there any other sports or games that Michael Andrew Pero III could have said he was in and history was revised afterward and the possibility actually exists that the very strangely unusual circumstances related to that event *might* actually indicate that what he says could *possibly* have some truth?

The more I think about it, the wilder the and longer shot that he would coincidently pick England in the 1982 World Cup to make up an elimination "story" that actually makes more sense than what the documentary presents... weird, just very weird...

In other words, the documentary "Gole" does not actually show England being eliminated by normal rules... it shows tying a match with Spain which has never and should never eliminate them from the World Cup competition, except according to "Gole" it did this one time "because of a bizarre interpretation of the rule book"... bizarre indeed!

The weirdness of Michael Andrew Pero III's stories is despite being wildly unbelievable, they are nonetheless at least somewhat plausible if one allows for some exaggeration to be factored in, crazy weird...

Tim, if you don't mind, ask Andy what color jersey and what number he wore... I would be interested in his answer, not that it would mean much either way...

[kirok]

Originally Posted by trf5150

Internet Archive: Free Download: The Andy Pero Story - The England Connection For more information about Andy, please go to this link. It's a story he wanted to go public with through "Rolling Stone Magazine". He sent it to "Matt Tabbi" but never heard back from him. This is the story he sent to me and wants everyone to know. He's told me that "Project Superman" was part of a 1200 page diary that he has kept in prison. He also says that it's been altered. And is mixed with dis-information. He hasn't told me what parts are not true. More to come as I get it. Please let me know if you have any questions for him. I'll forward them to him and post his responses. He will have the opportunity of getting out of prison very soon if he accepts parole. But he has told me that he might just serve his max sentence, which would get him out later this year and not have parole.

I went to college with Andy. I was a fraternity brother of his. At no point did I ever see anything that would lead me to believe anything other that Andy suffers from a severe mental illness. It saddens me.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by kirok

I went to college with Andy. I was a fraternity brother of his. At no point did I ever see anything that would lead me to believe anything other that Andy suffers from a severe mental illness. It saddens me.

Please tell us more...

What college?

What frat?

What years?

What did you see that led you to this belief?

[mityno]

Here is a current Popular Mechanics article titled, "How to Fall 35,000 Feet—And Survive":

How to Survive a 35,000-Foot Fall - Plane Crash Survival Guide - Popular Mechanics

I find it interesting that so many studies have been made over the years on this subject.

And...

"Japanese parachutist Yasuhiro Kubo, who holds the world record in the activity’s banzai category. The sky diver tosses his chute from the plane and then jumps out after it, waiting as long as possible to retrieve it, put it on and pull the ripcord."

Which makes me want to trade my airliner's "flotation device" seat cushion for a real parachute...

[kirok]

Originally Posted by mityno

Please tell us more...

What college?

What frat?

What years?

What did you see that led you to this belief?

University of Rochester
Delta Kappa Epsilon
86-90


What lead me to this belief is that Andy spent his time in the weight room, at practice, at the DKE house playing Techmo Bowl on the Nintendo. His behavior changed drastically after college and was using drugs. Close friends saw this slide over a span a of a few years. One time he showed up at another fraternity brother's home with a shot gun and tin foil hat to keep the government away.

[trf5150]

I just recieved 3 letters from Mike. I copied and pasted some of the conversation here on this site and sent it to him. This is for SHAKRA, quoted from the letter Mike sent me:

Anyway, Shakra, has it right in that, and I'll say it again....that this "autobiography" was my chronological journal when I first began to remember stuff, and I moved back from Atlanta... So it was just me trying to put all I could remember at the time down on paper to try to make some kind of sense of it all. As at the time you are running around like a chicken with no head. Then some of the stuff was spoon fed to me to spin it with disinformation.. and then posted on line by someone. So, now looking back many years later....There are a few things which need to be better explained and a few things which need to be added. So, that's a good overview... but far from the whole story... so take it with a grain of salt.

As far as me having Schizophrenia.... Sorry... When I was first arrested in Connecticut... The Director of Psychiatry from YALE University came in specifically to get me declared "Insane"... to discredit me and my story.. He couldn't do it... I was given every 500 question test.. Ink Blot test... Psycho analysis test in the book... I was evaluated 7 different times. As each time I came back with a clean bill of Mental Health and they were going to keep giving me mental health evaluations until they could find a doctor who could find something wrong with me. but it never happened. And then the same thing again when I was transferred to New Jersty. It started all over again. Another 3 complete mental health evaluations.

So, Sorry.. No Schizophrenia... I've been tested many times...by the best. Been there, done that.


The Howard Stern show was in regards to the "steriod trial" video tape I mentioned. Howard sent his limo to pick me up to tell the story about the steriod trial as he saw the tape. "They" were not going to let me go to the show. Later, My handler "John Nicholson" told me that "the problem witht he radio guy has been taken of". I didn't know what he meant.. then he said "He's tall!" So, I assume he meant Howard...

[trf5150]

This is from one of the most recent letters from Mike...

When I read the one guys blog, mityno, about what is posed on "Gole" regarding what the cover story is... in that "England had to win by TWO goals over Spain???

THIS BIT OF INFORMATION IS A CRITICAL BIT OF NEWS AND IS THE FIRST THAT I AM HEARING OF IT!!! HOLD THE PHONE... LET ME ENLIGHTEN YOU AND BRING YOU UP TO SPEED!

THIS IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT...

POINT 1.
In the first round of the 82' World Cup... Only two teams went undefeated with a perfect 3-0 record... ENGLAND AND BRAZIL!

England is in Group 4.
England went 3 wins, 0 ties, 0 losses... 6 POINTS... Undefeated! With 6 goals for, 1 against... for the goal differential.
ENGLAND WINS THEIR GROUP UNDEFEATED!!!!!

Spain is in Group 5
Spain went 1 win, 1 tie, and 1 loss... 3 POINTS...
With 3 goals for , 3 against... for the goal differential.
Spain finished SECOND in their division, WITH HALF THE POINTS!

ENGLAND THEREFORE HOLDS ALL THE TIE BREAKERS!!!!

SO WHAT INTERPETATION OF THE RULE BOOK, IN THE BIGGEST INTERNATIONAL SPORTING EVENT ON THE PLANET STATES THAT IN THE EVENT OF A TIE...THE UNDEFEATED 3-0 TEAM WITH MORE POINTS AND BETTER GOAL DIFFERENTIAL...LOSES TO THE 1-1-1 TEAM IN THE EVENT OF A TIE???

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I believe the standard remedy in that situation is called A PENALTY KICK SHOOT OUT!!! That's point 1.

POINT 2
My second point is that THAT'S NOT EVEN WHAT HAPPENED!!
WE DID NOT TIE SPAIN... WE BEAT THEM BY TWO GOALS!!! It was either 4-2, or 5-3... England was a 50-1 underdog to win...and advance to the semi-finals... This was in itself a HUGE STORY!!! These two games England v. Spain in the second round... and England v. Italy in the Semi-finals are two of the most famous games in FIFA history!

ALSO...SURE AS ****... WE DIDN'T PLAY GERMANY IN THE SECOND ROUND!!!

SO, SURE AS ****... WE DIDN'T TIE SPAIN... WE BEAT THEM AND ALSO WE DIDN'T PLAY GERMANY AT THAT POINT!!!

POINT 3
What I know happened... and how I see they covered this up is the following...

The first round games seem to be correct... but then in the second round is where they started to fudge the game results.

They flip flopped two teams in the second round AND changed the results... and switched either (we played either) Poland or the Soviet Union, out of England's bracket... and moved Germany (the over all winner) into the England bracket.

That said that one of only Two undefeated powerhouses... England, could not even goal in the second round OF THE TOURNAMENT... 0-0 v. Germany (which never even happened) and 0-0 v. Spain (which did happen but the score sure as hell wasn't 0-0).

So, England in the second round played either (Poland or soviet Union) AND then Spain as the second team... They flipped flopped the two teams... put the overall winner against England.. and ooops 0-0 no score, and then in the other REALLY FAMOUS GAME OF ENGLAND V. SPAIN...ooops (0-0) No score... and change the semi-finals after that.

AND THEN HIDE ALL THE GAME TAPES... AS I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIND THE SALE OF THE GAME TAPES... BUT EVEN ESPN HAS BEEN GIVING ME THE RUN AROUND!

As I said... I'm also in all the first round games as well... BUT AT THIS POINT THEY ARE PLAYING "DEBUNKER" GAMES ON YOUTUBE regarding this. Different games under these titles YET THEN YOU CANNOT BUY THE GAME TAPES!!!

POINT 4
ESPN AND FIFA HAVE DIFFERENT RESULTS!!!

ESPN currently has the semi-final game as Italy v. Brazil (second round matchup).

While F.I.F.A. has the official cover story of Italy v. Poland as the semi-final.

When all along it's Italy v. England

IN THE SPORTS BARS HERE IN AMERICA... YOU JUST HAVE TO GO DOWN TO AND English Soccer Bar (here in America) and ask ANYONE... ABOUT THIS!!!

POINT 5
Finally... Please go to Wikipedia...at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup_records.com

I was talking to one of the cops who was helping me with this on July 5, 2008... I was over heard by one of the spies who was watching me here in prison...

I'm supposed to be all over the World Cup records.

Please go to the last page.. page 13... As I said.. I was talking to the cop on july 5, 2008... look at the next to last line on the last page... IT SAYS "this page was last modified on 7 July 2008 at 20:53"... GET IT!!!

WHY IS SOMEONE MODIFYING THE WORLD CUP RECORDS WHEN THERE IS NO WORLD CUP GOING ON???

Then in July or August of last year (2009). I had another inmate call his family and have them look into the 1982 World Cup... they did the same thing and saw that it had been modified!

WELL WHY THE HELL IS SOMEONE "MODIFYING" THE 1982 WORLD CUP RECORDS? The world cup records from 25 years ago????

I think I know why!

Again, WE BEAT SPAIN!!! AND IT WAS QUITE THE STORY! Never played Germany in the second round... England was 3-0, so all tie breakers would go to England NOT to Spain... ESPN and FIFA have different semi-final results... and check the wikipedia 1982 world cup, and FIFA World cup webpages were modified..

Get this to MITYNO! See if he can help on this ASAP! As this is the loose thread that we can pull the whole thing apart with.

Thanks again.

Mike

[Cado]

Because excessive caps, bold letters, and underlining makes things true.

This is entertaining, at least.

[mityno]

First let me say I know little to nothing about soccer.

And while I graduated H.S. in 1981 which made me 19 years old in 1982, I had no clue there was even a World Cup in Spain back then.

Soccer (round ball Football) just wasn't a part of the local redneck culture near Marietta GA back then.

In 1982 I followed Bobby Allison winning the first NASCAR race of the year at the Daytona 500 all the way through Darrell Waltrip winning the last race of the year at the now defunct road course at Riverside CA where he took the Winston Cup Championship that Allison had led most of the year. Georgia boy Bill Elliot ran the 82 season too but he wouldn't hit his heyday until around 1985 when he got a "tapered turd Thunderbird" with its aerodynamic advantage coupled with the unfair advantage of the mighty Cleveland with its big block huge valve heads... probably the only car combination that could have given the famous HEMI Superbirds of the late 60's and early 70's a run for the money! Now get this trivia factoid, in 1982, future Champion and famous Chevy driver Dale Earnhart Sr ran a Ford Thunderbird for Bud Moore!

My point is I'm really not qualified to do the soccer research Mike is asking for... if it was a Nascar race or ride he needed researched, then I'm your man... otherwise I'm just fumbling around completely blind to any clues that something might be out of place... or not... with any website I find. Nor do I personally know any Soccer fans who could help me. What is needed is someone who knows the World Cup in 1982 like I know the Winston Cup in 1982.

With that said, my poking around didn't turn up anything useful:

Originally Posted by trf5150

POINT 1.
In the first round of the 82' World Cup... Only two teams went undefeated with a perfect 3-0 record... ENGLAND AND BRAZIL!

England is in Group 4.
England went 3 wins, 0 ties, 0 losses... 6 POINTS... Undefeated! With 6 goals for, 1 against... for the goal differential.
ENGLAND WINS THEIR GROUP UNDEFEATED!!!!!

Here is a UK soccer history site that shows the same results:
1982 World Cup Spain Group Four

Originally Posted by trf5150

Spain is in Group 5
Spain went 1 win, 1 tie, and 1 loss... 3 POINTS...
With 3 goals for , 3 against... for the goal differential.
Spain finished SECOND in their division, WITH HALF THE POINTS!

Again, this UK site agrees:
1982 World Cup Spain Group Five

Originally Posted by trf5150

POINT 2
My second point is that THAT'S NOT EVEN WHAT HAPPENED!!
WE DID NOT TIE SPAIN... WE BEAT THEM BY TWO GOALS!!! It was either 4-2, or 5-3... England was a 50-1 underdog to win...and advance to the semi-finals... This was in itself a HUGE STORY!!! These two games England v. Spain in the second round... and England v. Italy in the Semi-finals are two of the most famous games in FIFA history!

ALSO...SURE AS ****... WE DIDN'T PLAY GERMANY IN THE SECOND ROUND!!!

SO, SURE AS ****... WE DIDN'T TIE SPAIN... WE BEAT THEM AND ALSO WE DIDN'T PLAY GERMANY AT THAT POINT!!!

Here the UK website has the same results asformer 007 James Bond actor and the documentry "Gole" commentator Sean Connery's account:
1982 World Cup Spain Second Round Group 2

Originally Posted by trf5150

POINT 4
ESPN AND FIFA HAVE DIFFERENT RESULTS!!!

ESPN currently has the semi-final game as Italy v. Brazil (second round matchup).

The UK site matches the ESPN version:
1982 World Cup Spain Second Round Group 3

And I see now that England is shown to have tied both games and Germany won one game and tied the other... so I'm guessing that's why England didn't advance?

At least in the text summery near the bottom of this page:
World Cup History 1982 - ESPN Soccernet

Originally Posted by trf5150

While F.I.F.A. has the official cover story of Italy v. Poland as the semi-final.

I found this Italy vs Brazil account on this ESPN page and was unable to find any reference to Italy vs Poland:
FIFA.com - 1982 FIFA World Cup Spain â„¢

Surely someone somewhere who is a real Soccer fan will post up eventually...

[kirok]

Originally Posted by trf5150

I just recieved 3 letters from Mike. I copied and pasted some of the conversation here on this site and sent it to him. This is for SHAKRA, quoted from the letter Mike sent me:

Anyway, Shakra, has it right in that, and I'll say it again....that this "autobiography" was my chronological journal when I first began to remember stuff, and I moved back from Atlanta... So it was just me trying to put all I could remember at the time down on paper to try to make some kind of sense of it all. As at the time you are running around like a chicken with no head. Then some of the stuff was spoon fed to me to spin it with disinformation.. and then posted on line by someone. So, now looking back many years later....There are a few things which need to be better explained and a few things which need to be added. So, that's a good overview... but far from the whole story... so take it with a grain of salt.

As far as me having Schizophrenia.... Sorry... When I was first arrested in Connecticut... The Director of Psychiatry from YALE University came in specifically to get me declared "Insane"... to discredit me and my story.. He couldn't do it... I was given every 500 question test.. Ink Blot test... Psycho analysis test in the book... I was evaluated 7 different times. As each time I came back with a clean bill of Mental Health and they were going to keep giving me mental health evaluations until they could find a doctor who could find something wrong with me. but it never happened. And then the same thing again when I was transferred to New Jersty. It started all over again. Another 3 complete mental health evaluations.

So, Sorry.. No Schizophrenia... I've been tested many times...by the best. Been there, done that.


The Howard Stern show was in regards to the "steriod trial" video tape I mentioned. Howard sent his limo to pick me up to tell the story about the steriod trial as he saw the tape. "They" were not going to let me go to the show. Later, My handler "John Nicholson" told me that "the problem witht he radio guy has been taken of". I didn't know what he meant.. then he said "He's tall!" So, I assume he meant Howard...

I'm sorry if you mentioned it elsewhere, but how are you in contact with Andy? Is it letters? Did you initiate contact with him? A number of his fraternity brothers (me included) have wondered what happened to Andy and want to reach out to him.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by kirok

I'm sorry if you mentioned it elsewhere, but how are you in contact with Andy? Is it letters? Did you initiate contact with him? A number of his fraternity brothers (me included) have wondered what happened to Andy and want to reach out to him.

Pretty much all your questions are answered in this thread, I suggest you read it from the beginning.

Here is a link to the Rochester Wiki page about Mike (Andy) Pero:
Andy Pero - Rochester Wiki

Another question for you, if you don't mind...

When did you and/or your frat brothers first hear about Andy's "Project Superman" story or anything related to it?

[kirok]

Friends of mine first noticed the odd behavior in the mid 1990s after Andy and other fraternity brothers had moved to Atlanta.

However, we had not heard the story back then. Another fellow U of R alumnus found the story on line around 4 years ago and shared it with me. I then informed my fraternity brothers at that time (~2005 - 2006) of this story, and one of my brothers recalled the story about Andy showing up at his house with a shot gun wearing a tinfoil hat.

By the way, I spent 22 hours in a van with Andy driving to spring break (1990). He was fine then; he was an ordinary student; there were no strange conversations at that time. Furthernore, Andy played college football with me, and as far as I can recall he had a strong dislike for soccer. Andy played offensive line, and certainly did not have the body type or agility to have played competitive soccer. Plus he would have been 12 years old at the time of his alleged involvement at the world cup. So I don't think those stories hold any water.

[supertom]

the world cup bit is non-sense, its the biggest event in the world, talent like that just doesn't go unnoticed.

Andy pero is smart he hooks by starting with superhuman feats, which tickles our fantasy cause deep down we want that to be true, so we know its possible for us.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by supertom

the world cup bit is non-sense, its the biggest event in the world, talent like that just doesn't go unnoticed.

I agree. So use it as a backdrop to a story that can so easily be discredited? It makes no sense to do so unless he really believes what he is saying really happened... I mean there are far more believable "lies" that can be told, ones that can never be disputed at all. Not even an amateur huckster or a beginner con man would make this big of a mistake.

Originally Posted by supertom

Andy pero is smart he hooks by starting with superhuman feats, which tickles our fantasy cause deep down we want that to be true, so we know its possible for us.

I respectfully disagree... I have no desire to ever jump from an airplane with or without a parachute and I have no desire to do most of the other things he describes... OK well, a ride in the Montauk chair might be cool... yea, I have to admit I wouldn't pass that up if it were offered to me...

You see there is something going on beyond his "wild" accounts that makes his story intriguing to me, something far beyond and outside of the "fantastic" story elements themselves... He is smart and articulate (not in a technical English way, but in his ability to communicate and connect with his readers). So what would "possess" someone to tell "tales" that are obvious that he believes?

Among the many possibilities, but certainly not limited to this list are:

1) Everything he says is 100% true.

2) He is mentally disturbed or has issues with "reality". If this is the case, then this could be the result of an illness, injury, drug abuse or even some type of hypnosis or "mind control" implanted false memories.

3) He is possessed by demons, devils, evil spirits or some other malevolent supernatural or extra-terrestrial entity(s).

4) He has been jumping between alternative universes or alternative realities or connecting with and sharing memories with alternate versions of himself in these other realities... a very cool sounding sci-fi book or movie plot, if you could explain it well enough to make it make sense, but nonetheless a very real feeling experience despite how things appear here in this reality as distortions.

5) Some combination of all of the above.


Consider this... let's say you had been part of some type of government program or experiment like say the The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html or Human radiation experiments Human radiation experiments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia THE HUMAN RADIATION EXPERIMENTS They Call Him Cal 3 Introduction or CIA LSD experiments on unsuspecting Americans HowStuffWorks "CIA LSD Experiments" or even something worse...

And to guarantee your silence, you were hypnotized and some kind of a "mind lock" was placed on you so that no ordinary hypnotist could hypnotize you or unlock your real memories. And a mental "boobytrap bomb" was added for good measure so that if the memories that were supposed to remain secret ever did leak out, all your memories would become scrambled to the point you would be considered "crazy" and any information that might be factual or useful would be obliterated by all the senseless "chaff" memories.

Would you even want to know what was locked up inside your mind knowing you would end up like Mike (Andy) Pero? Or would you want to remain ignorant of what they didn't want you to remember?

I'm thinking that although my life is nothing to write about, it definitely could be much worse so I don't think I would want to know...

Hindsight is 20/20, and what I have learned from Mike (Andy) is that rather than fight to recover whatever was hidden from me, I would beg them to rebury it so I could live as "normal" of a life as possible...

My Epitaph:

Some things are worse than death.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by trf5150

So is Bill Bielek(sp?) lying when he says that he knows that "Andy" was involved with this Mind Control (Super Soldier) program? Or are they all just taking us for a ride? Are these people just jumping on the MK-ULTRA band wagon so they can write books and have conventions about this subject and make money on it all the while?

Two things...

1) Do you mean Al Bielek instead of Bill Bielek? (if so remember Al used to live in Austell GA, not far from Marietta GA and not far from me, until maybe 5 years or so ago. I never met him, at least not that I know of, bet he was here during the time Mike (Andy) was in Marietta GA.)

2) I don't doubt that many have made some $$$ from their stories and if it is Al Bielek, I'd think he did well from his story too... but did Mike (Andy) ever make any money from telling or writing his story(s)? If so, it couldn't have been very much... everything I have read from him or about him was free on the internet. In fact, I would think that Mike (Andy) would have a really difficult time cashing in on his stories because they are so detailed with verifiable/disputable facts... unlike anything Al Bielek was selling with his time warp Philadelphia Experiment and many others with their "contactee" or alien abduction stories. But it would be nice to hear how much Mike (Andy) has made so far from his story(s).

[trf5150]

I do mean the "Al" you are talking about. Mike has told me that he hasn't made a dime off anything other than that one conference he went to and later that day did an interview with Eve Lorgan.

I get my information from Mike in letters. He writes often and right now I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed with all the stuff he's been sending me. As far as getting in touch with him... Write him... He's in Northern State Prison in Newark NJ. They really started to monitor his mail coming in and going out. Recently he's been getting my letters in a paper bag. And the letters that I'm getting from him have been opened and taped shut.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by trf5150

I do mean the "Al" you are talking about. Mike has told me that he hasn't made a dime off anything other than that one conference he went to and later that day did an interview with Eve Lorgan.

I get my information from Mike in letters. He writes often and right now I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed with all the stuff he's been sending me. As far as getting in touch with him... Write him... He's in Northern State Prison in Newark NJ. They really started to monitor his mail coming in and going out. Recently he's been getting my letters in a paper bag. And the letters that I'm getting from him have been opened and taped shut.

This is probably normal procedure.

I would guess they are looking for any threats or indications any of the convicts are running gangs or other illegal activities from inside... you know the stories you hear about where the mob bosses and gang leaders still run their organizations from inside... "I want Bill killed and Bubba beaten up! Bring me more drugs! Set up more illegal gambling operations on the South side of town. Launder more illicit money in our Coin Laundromats and use the "clean money" to buy more guns and ammo..." you know, really incriminating stuff like that.

Oh and they are probably also looking for anything related to terrorism too... prisons are ripe recruiting grounds for radicals who might be persuaded to commit violent acts on our or great nation!

They probably have no clue as to how to take Mike's (Andy) "recollections." But I'd bet those are the most read and passed around letters by the guards of any of the inmates! I know I would really enjoy reading anything he wrote, even if I wasn't sure what the context was, how to take it or what he really meant by it.

[mityno]

I was not familiar with Eve Lorgen so I did a search for her and found this:

Project Superman
The Saga of Andy Pero
by Eve Lorgen
2000
Project Superman: The Saga of Andy Pero

Here is her site:
EveLorgen.com

[trf5150]

A quick note... I've just been told that a couple of the web sites that were running Mikes story has been hacked into. You can't access those pages with this story on them.

So, someone is interested in erasing the story. I got this information from the webmasters themselves.

[trf5150]

This is a transription of an offical CIA document that has been de classified under the Freedom of Information Act. For those that don't believe the the government hasn't made super assassins and have them not even remember being a part of these missions...read the following:

June 22, 1954

THE MILITARY APPLICATION OF HYPNTISM

TO: BLANK

FROM: BLANK


I choose two practical applications from many with which to illustrate my proposition:

1. The safeguarding of the messages entrusted to couriers. In deep hypnosis
the subject, military or civilian, can be given a message to be delivered to
Colonel X in Berlin. The subject may then be sent to Berlin on any perfectly
Routine assignment. The message will be perfectly safe and will be delivered to the proper person because:

A. The subject will have no memory whatsoever in the waking state as to the nature and contents of the message.
B. It can be arranged that the subject will have no knowledge of ever having been hypnotized.
C. It can be arranged that no one beside Colonel X in Berlin can hypnotize the subject and recover the message.

This hypnotic messenger, if I may use the phrase has in my opinion at least two very definite advantages over the ordinary courier. First he will never under any circumstance by a slip of the tongue divulge the true nature of his mission for the very simple reason that he has no conscious knowledge of what the mission may be. He is merely going on a routine replacement in say the Adjutant General’s Office. This will be his story and the story which he believes.

Secondly, if by any chance, he is picked up through a leakage of information from other sources the message is safe. No amount of third degree tactics can pry it loose, for he simply does not have it in his conscious mind. Even if the enemy suspects the use of hypnotism the message is still safe for no one can hypnotize him except this Colonel X in Berlin.

May I point cut that this technique is one which can be demonstrated under experimental conditions where you wish and when you wish allowing a certain amount of time to train the subjects in question.

2. A specific counterintelligence technique to be used against enemy agents. This
particular use of hypnotism would be more complicated and more difficult than
the rather simple case which I outlined in the preceding paragraphs, but is, I
assure you, quite practical. I will take a number of men and will establish in
them through the use of hypnotism the condition of split personality.
Consciously they will be ardent Communists, fanatical adherence to the party
Line, ready and eager to submit to any discipline which the party may prescribe.
Unconsciously they will be loyal Americans just as grimly determined to thwart
The Communists at every turn in the road.

These men again will have no knowledge of anything that occurs in the hypnotic state—will have no knowledge of ever having been hypnotized and can only be hypnotized by such persons as the original operator may choose. Consciously they will associate with the Communists and learn all the plans of the organization. Once every month or at such time is advisable they will be contacted by a member of our intelligence department, hypnotized, and as loyal Americans will tell what they know. This sounds unbelievable, but I assure you, it will work.

Once again the advantages. Your hypothetical counter spy will be placed in a very difficult situation—amounting at best to social ostracism, at worst criminal prosecution. He will not disclose his true role for the very simple reason that he can not. Consciously he is a Communist and will not in a moment of weakness admit to his relatives or to his friends that he is anything but a Communist. Again, if through some leakage, he is suspected of being an informer his true role is safely guarded, locked in the unconscious and impervious to all assaults from the outside.

I consider myself an authority on the theoretical applications of hypnotism to warfare and would point out that it is a highly specialized subject. The average psychologist or even psychiatrist is as at much of a loss here as would be the average chemist or physicist if called on to supervise a very specialized project for which he had had no particular training. I claim that I can demonstrate all my particular contentions to the satisfaction of the government agencies and request the opportunity so to do.

In closing, may I make one very significant point. The Russian literature is hard to get and carefully avoids any mention of the topic in question. Those Russian articles which I have been able to get leave no doubt about the fact that the Russian is just as interested about the field of hypnotism as are we.

Respectfully submitted,

BLANK

[KaleidoskopicVision]

My head is spinning. Let's zoom out a bit here. What's the point of looking into all this?

[mityno]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

My head is spinning. Let's zoom out a bit here. What's the point of looking into all this?

All of what?

Government experiments on unsuspecting citizens or on unwitting military troops? (see post 75 above Andy Pero, Montauk and "The Superman Project")

Or do you mean something more specific?

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by mityno

All of what?

Government experiments on unsuspecting citizens or on unwitting military troops? (see post 75 above Andy Pero, Montauk and "The Superman Project")

Or do you mean something more specific?

I was looking for more of a conclusion to the matter at hand, but it's obviously far from it. I'm tempted to delve into this whole mess myself, but I am hesitant because I have done this sort of digging before and the rabbit hole can be endless. I also found myself not knowing what to believe, so that the whole point of the searching sort of imploded in on itself. I've looked at the Montauk website and find the material to be very interesting, but I want more than little clues I guess.

[trf5150]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

My head is spinning. Let's zoom out a bit here. What's the point of looking into all this?

The point is. The use of "Mind Control" in the government and the military is very real! And it is used to the extreme that Mike(Andy)Pero describes in his dealings with such programs.

For those who say that it isn't true and it can't be done, Do your RESEARCH! I'm not talking about going on Conspiracy Web Sites. Go right to the source. The C.I.A. releases information to the public on a regular basis. I've found documents released by the C.I.A. that describes almost verbatim to what Mike has says has happened to him.

Although the C.I.A. releases such material to the public, most of which you can read right on their web site, I have found that they take some information down almost as quick as they put it up.

If anyone remembers in the late 70's if I'm correct, the C.I.A. destroyed many of their documents concerning MK-ULTRA. But, MK-ULTRA was just the beginning. The stuff they released about MK-ULTRA has to do with the drugs they were researching to see what kind of affect different drugs would have on humans. All in the name of "Mind Control". One drug I found in one of the documents was found in Mexico. They used the seeds from this plant to enhance your psychic abilities! I'm not making this up as crazy as this sounds, was found right on the Official C.I.A. website.

The truth is out there! You just have to know where to look!

[mityno]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

I was looking for more of a conclusion to the matter at hand, but it's obviously far from it. I'm tempted to delve into this whole mess myself, but I am hesitant because I have done this sort of digging before and the rabbit hole can be endless. I also found myself not knowing what to believe, so that the whole point of the searching sort of imploded in on itself. I've looked at the Montauk website and find the material to be very interesting, but I want more than little clues I guess.

Ok, ok... I'll cut to the chase, here is a video that sums it all up:
YouTube - Spirits in the material wold

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by mityno

Ok, ok... I'll cut to the chase, here is a video that sums it all up:
YouTube - Spirits in the material wold

I like that answer just fine

[kirok]

For those who say that it isn't true and it can't be done, Do your RESEARCH! I'm not talking about going on Conspiracy Web Sites. Go right to the source. The C.I.A. releases information to the public on a regular basis. I've found documents released by the C.I.A. that describes almost verbatim to what Mike has says has happened to him.



Wait a minute, isn't it possible that Andy read those documents and fashioned stories about himself to mirror those CIA stories? Isn't it just possible that Andy suffers from mental illness? And if you don't think it's possible, why not? Do any of you know Andy? I did. I know others that lived with him. There is nothing here other than someone who has a severe mental illness with violent tendancies.

It seems like a lot of people "care" about Andy. It strikes me that they only care to further their own beliefs and ignore the strongest possibility: Andy is sick and needs help.

[mityno]

Originally Posted by kirok

Wait a minute, isn't it possible that Andy read those documents and fashioned stories about himself to mirror those CIA stories?

Yes, this is possible... it is also possible that the people who did the Bourne movies ripped off Andy's story for their plot too... but how would you prove any of it?

Originally Posted by kirok

Isn't it just possible that Andy suffers from mental illness?

Yes, it is possible... it is possible that no human is 100% "normal" and we all suffer some illogic and faulty thinking, but the question is to what degree? And if he is nuts, how did he get that way? By some unfortunate natural disease or because of some government experiments done on him, like most all governments have done on their own people? How could you tell the difference or prove it?

Originally Posted by kirok

And if you don't think it's possible, why not?

All things are possible... it is also possible that his stories are evidence that *SOMETHING* happened to him. It is also possible that he is completely or mostly "normal" and he is making all of this up in an attempt to become a famous writer and to profit from his self made celebrity.

The real enigma is we will probably never know anything for absolutely certain... other than his writings are of the highest order of unusual "weirdness" and that alone makes it all a most interesting topic of study.

Originally Posted by kirok

Do any of you know Andy? I did. I know others that lived with him. There is nothing here other than someone who has a severe mental illness with violent tendancies.

I don't know him and have never met him... at least not that I am aware of. I don't know you either or the others you claim to know. On the internets, this make us both equally uncredible as "witnesses". But I do appreciate you posting up as what you are saying needs to be part of the conversation.

Originally Posted by kirok

It seems like a lot of people "care" about Andy. It strikes me that they only care to further their own beliefs and ignore the strongest possibility: Andy is sick and needs help.

Well if he needs mental health care or treatment, the LAST place he needs to be is in a regular prison! No good will come of that for anyone!

But I hear you with the Occam's Razor theory...

[kirok]

Originally Posted by mityno

Yes, this is possible... it is also possible that the people who did the Bourne movies ripped off Andy's story for their plot too... but how would you prove any of it?



Yes, it is possible... it is possible that no human is 100% "normal" and we all suffer some illogic and faulty thinking, but the question is to what degree? And if he is nuts, how did he get that way? By some unfortunate natural disease or because of some government experiments done on him, like most all governments have done on their own people? How could you tell the difference or prove it?



All things are possible... it is also possible that his stories are evidence that *SOMETHING* happened to him. It is also possible that he is completely or mostly "normal" and he is making all of this up in an attempt to become a famous writer and to profit from his self made celebrity.

The real enigma is we will probably never know anything for absolutely certain... other than his writings are of the highest order of unusual "weirdness" and that alone makes it all a most interesting topic of study.



I don't know him and have never met him... at least not that I am aware of. I don't know you either or the others you claim to know. On the internets, this make us both equally uncredible as "witnesses". But I do appreciate you posting up as what you are saying needs to be part of the conversation.



Well if he needs mental health care or treatment, the LAST place he needs to be is in a regular prison! No good will come of that for anyone!

But I hear you with the Occam's Razor theory...

Weren't the Bourne movies adaptations of Robert Ludlum's novels? I think the first was written in 1979 or 80. I doubt the producers of the movies ripped off Andy's story.

I agree with you regarding the inability to verify who any of us really are. The information I shared earlier could have been culled from other sources. However, I have nothing to gain by sharing my experiences about Andy. I knew him. I thought he was a good guy. I know that he is troubled and needs help. I don't believe that he and his story are worthy of further study.