Mumbai, India, what is going on there???

[Peek]

Guys, I'm just shocked about this news.
Everybody involved, I wish you everything that you need.

The reason why this attacks are organized is unclear to me at this moment, but I can not imagine anything that would justify this violence.

It makes me really sad.

Sorry, I just needed an outlet of this astonishing news. Mumbai of all places!

[Jarreddo]

I don't think anyone really knows yet. This is all I could find on the BBC:

Eyewitness reports suggest the attackers singled out British and American passport holders.

If the reports are true, our security correspondent Frank Gardner says it implies an Islamist motive - attacks inspired or co-ordinated by al-Qaeda.

A claim of responsibility has been made by a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen.

Our correspondent says it could be a hoax or assumed name for another group.

...

Police accused Pakistan's intelligence agency of planning those attacks, which they said were carried out by an Islamist militant group, Lashkar-e-Toiba.

Pakistan rejected the allegation, saying there was no evidence that its intelligence staff were involved.

Maybe in a day we'll know, but so far, everything seems way too chaotic.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by Jarreddo

I don't think anyone really knows yet. This is all I could find on the BBC:

My hunch? A bunch of wackos organized into a rough group. Indian intelligence either simply failed at their job, or allowed it to go forward. Either way, it will be used by Hindu nationalists to justify a push into Kashmir, a move which attempts to seize on the internal difficulties of Pakistan. The push will be somewhat effective, but without any permanence. The western media will be fed intel pointing to Pakistani involvement, including Al Qaeda in Pakistan. The US will use it as another reason to justify involvement in that country across the Afghan border. And thousands of people will die.

[Xanafax]

From what I heard it is Muslim Extremist group trying to hit the wealthiest areas of India to damage it's western reputation. Lets not forget that not so long ago - and to an extent even now - India is a divided country, divided by religion.

[forynav]

I feel rage, I feel hatred... I feel sad, I feel hollow, I want to change this, I want it to end... But, I'm clueless, I'm useless.... What do I do? What can I do? What can we do?

I feel like a ghost trying to wake my body up.

I'm lost... I'm so sorry..

[Dev]

I'm from Mumbai & here is the latest update. Our special forces have successfully cleared Oberoi & Trident Hotel and also Nariman House. Only Taj Hotel needs to be cleared now.
It is the handiwork of Islamic extremists with clear leads from our Intellegence agencies that the planning was done with Al-Qeda's help & executed by Pakistan's ISI (Intelligence wing). It was a well planned & executed attack. The aim was to attack International hotels & take western citizens as target. Nariman House has Israeli residents & it was specifically chosen to send a message to Israel.
Official estimates say that atleast 25-30 highly trained & motivated terrorists infiltrated via the sea-route from Karachi to Colaba in Mumbai. The dinghy in which they came has been confiscated. The mother ships belonging to Pakistan has also been apprehended. The Indian coastal Guards have clearly failed in their job.
The Indian police has shown far greater courage as its chief was the 1st one to go down battling the terrorists.
Pakistan as usual maintains that it is not involved. This time our intelligence agencies are getting clear leads & all point to Pakistan's backyard.
All the terrorist attacks which have taken place in India since the last 25 years is to avenge their defeat at the hands of Indian army, when Bangladesh was created, their defeat in Punjab & their failure to take Kashmir. The latest attacks have a global connection as the US has become India's closest ally.
Now we have to see what would be the Indian govts response to this attack.
The Indians have borne the brunt of terrorism all these years, partly due to Americas strategic lack of interest in reining in their one time ally Pakistan. Now with China seen as a bigger threat the US wants to align with India.
The casualty so far in this attack is 125 killed, 350 injured & still counting.

We pray to God for the souls of those killed & to give solace to the family members.

[ar81]

9/11 had timing and coordination.
India strike had timing and coordination.

9/11 had increase of weapon selling after the event.
India strike will... what?

In a time of crisis, weapons manufacturers might like to sell some merchandise.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by Dev

I'm from Mumbai & here is the latest update. Our special forces have successfully cleared Oberoi & Trident Hotel and also Nariman House. Only Taj Hotel needs to be cleared now.
It is the handiwork of Islamic extremists with clear leads from our Intellegence agencies that the planning was done with Al-Qeda's help & executed by Pakistan's ISI (Intelligence wing). It was a well planned & executed attack. The aim was to attack International hotels & take western citizens as target. Nariman House has Israeli residents & it was specifically chosen to send a message to Israel.
Official estimates say that atleast 25-30 highly trained & motivated terrorists infiltrated via the sea-route from Karachi to Colaba in Mumbai. The dinghy in which they came has been confiscated. The mother ships belonging to Pakistan has also been apprehended. The Indian coastal Guards have clearly failed in their job.
The Indian police has shown far greater courage as its chief was the 1st one to go down battling the terrorists.
Pakistan as usual maintains that it is not involved. This time our intelligence agencies are getting clear leads & all point to Pakistan's backyard.
All the terrorist attacks which have taken place in India since the last 25 years is to avenge their defeat at the hands of Indian army, when Bangladesh was created, their defeat in Punjab & their failure to take Kashmir. The latest attacks have a global connection as the US has become India's closest ally.
Now we have to see what would be the Indian govts response to this attack.
The Indians have borne the brunt of terrorism all these years, partly due to Americas strategic lack of interest in reining in their one time ally Pakistan. Now with China seen as a bigger threat the US wants to align with India.
The casualty so far in this attack is 125 killed, 350 injured & still counting.

We pray to God for the souls of those killed & to give solace to the family members.

We disagree on Pakistani involvement. My experience has been that Indian politicians exacerbate any intel to make Pakistan sound worse, and Pakistani politicians do the same.

That said, we are together in our prayers. Peace be with you, and may such violence never be considered again.

[WordKeeper]

ThoughtAddict - did you mean "exaggerate intelligence"?

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

ThoughtAddict - did you mean "exaggerate intelligence"?

Yes. My apologies if it caused any confusion. I began writing "exacerbate the conflict between the two countries by exaggerating intelligence", but the sentence didn't quite get there...

[catalyst]

I haven't had much of a chance to catch up on this until now.

It's so horrible - I feel very badly for the victims.

It's a mad world we live in. How could these bastards do something so horrific and indiscriminate - it's beyond words.

[yogesh sarkar]

Let's see the proof our agencies have of Pakistan involvement:

GPS log indicating route from Karachi to Mumbai from a captured Indian fishing boat whose captain was found murdered on board.

Satellite phone found on the boat with calls made to Pakistan.

Phone calls made by the terrorists during the siege to Pakistan and to LET chief.

Captured terrorist is from Pakistan.

I don't think I need more proofs then these to conclude it was the handy work of Pakistan based terrorist groups which work in connivance with Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) department.

[Dev]

Just an update on the latest situation. The crisis is over with all the terrorists gunned down & 1 arrested. Satellite phones have been recovered & all links are pointing to Pakistan. It seems the sat phone company is refusing to divulge any call details. Here the US govt's help would be needed to put pressure on the company. But it is doubtful they would do it, as they still need Pak as an ally for their war against terror.
Pak govt has always is following the policy of deniabilty. India has always been a soft state so far. We have never followed US & Israel's policy of hot pursuit.
Everybody back here in India are very optimistic about Obamas leadership & we believe US would honestly work towards world peace.
It is said that in International relations, there are no permanent friends or foes, only permanent national interests.
India's cultural heritage says "Vasudeva Kutumbakam" i.e The Whole world is one family.
Preaching and Practising the 7 Principles is the need of the hour of every individual, family, society and nations.

[WordKeeper]

What is the feeling today in Mumbai? Are people out and about - business as usual or is there a quiet to the city and people are in a kind of shell shock?

[Dev]

People are angry that it has happened again..the nth time. Political parties are trying to cash in by putting up large hoardings of the martyrs & there petty names below. As some one said it 'Politicians will be politicians & soldiers will be soldiers'. Thankfully the politicians did not speak about Mumbai's spirit & resilience. People used to joke the last time such hollow statements were made that - only spirits would remain in Mumbai as a result of continous terrorist onslaught.
The martyred soldiers were laid to rest today with full state honours.
What was interesting to see was the way TV channels covered the crisis over 3 days. The audience could very well make out who were the professionals & who were the also-rans.
As always Mumbai is back to business, but as it is a weekend there isn't much crowd.
Another aspect is how the elite of the city have reacted to the entire episode especially when they were the main target of the attack, unlike previous ones.
It is also said that the US has now safeguarded its own homeland but left other countries at the mercy of these extremists.
It is also disturbing when people speak in hushed tones as to while Islam is breeding a large no. of terrorists, why this religion shows more intolerance then any other religion.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by yogesh sarkar

Let's see the proof our agencies have of Pakistan involvement:

GPS log indicating route from Karachi to Mumbai from a captured Indian fishing boat whose captain was found murdered on board.

Satellite phone found on the boat with calls made to Pakistan.

Phone calls made by the terrorists during the siege to Pakistan and to LET chief.

Captured terrorist is from Pakistan.

I don't think I need more proofs then these to conclude it was the handy work of Pakistan based terrorist groups which work in connivance with Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) department.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if most of the gunmen were Pakistani. It also wouldn't surprise me if they were trained by groups such as LET or Al Qaeda.

That does not implicate the Pakistani government. The ISI supported groups to fuel the insurgency in Kashmir, but it was never a relationship of control. Now, the ISI has entirely lost any semblance of control of those groups. The militants both in Kashmir and in Peshawar exist in an odd relationship with Pakistan. They derive support from tribal networks and religious extremist groups and operate with their own objectives in mind. The have a term for Pakistanis who aren't sufficiently extremist ("the near enemy"). Increasingly, the Pakistani government has fallen into that category, and the number of terrorist bombings in Pakistan is staggering.

That said, the international community (especially India and the US) have a strong interest in assisting Pakistan in regaining control over its army, it's intelligence agencies, and the entirety of its territory. It has been on the brink of civil war for some time now, and the democratically elected government is having some serious trouble establishing itself as a true power... if something doesn't change, soon, we will see increasing violence and instability in Pakistan and its neighbors.

[yogesh sarkar]

No civilian government has ever been in complete control of Pakistan, this is a part of their history and destiny for a foreseeable future.

As far as India goes, we need to take out those terrorists, irrespective of where they are located. If that destabilizes them, then so be it. We have bled enough, it is time we say, NO MORE!

Enough of being a Gandhi, time to be a Bose!

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by yogesh sarkar

No civilian government has ever been in complete control of Pakistan, this is a part of their history and destiny for a foreseeable future.

As far as India goes, we need to take out those terrorists, irrespective of where they are located. If that destabilizes them, then so be it. We have bled enough, it is time we say, NO MORE!

Enough of being a Gandhi, time to be a Bose!

Violence breeds violence. Hate breeds hate. And instability breeds terrorism. The ideology underlying and inspiring this violence cannot be defeated with military action. An idea is not killed with a bullet, just as Gandhi's peace was not destroyed with his death.

"It was you, it was me, it was every man. We've all got the blood on our hands. We only receive what we demand, and if we want hell, then hell is what we'll have."

[Brutha]

As far as India goes, we need to take out those terrorists, irrespective of where they are located. If that destabilizes them, then so be it. We have bled enough, it is time we say, NO MORE!

Additionally the idea of escalating a conflict in which both countries have nuclear weapons doesn't sound like a good idea.

[WordKeeper]

It is also disturbing when people speak in hushed tones as to while Islam is breeding a large no. of terrorists, why this religion shows more then any other religion.

What is your theory on this. It is a mystery to me.

[yogesh sarkar]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Additionally the idea of escalating a conflict in which both countries have nuclear weapons doesn't sound like a good idea.

So we are just supposed to sit here and let them do anything they want and kill as many of us they wish?

India has lost more soldiers and civilians in maintaining the peace with our so called neighbor then in the past four wars! As far as nukes are concerned, if they think they need to bring them out to protect the terrorists which are attacking Indian civilians, then we have enough of those to not only send them back to stone age, but also to make their whole country a giant crater!

183 people died in the attack in Mumbai, many more die on a regular basis in the rest of the country due to the Pakistani terrorists and we have all the right in the world to strike at those who strike at us and if that means a war, then so be it. There is only so much a country and its citizens can take, before they ask their armed forces unleash their fury on the propagators of those acts.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by yogesh sarkar

So we are just supposed to sit here and let them do anything they want and kill as many of us they wish?

India has lost more soldiers and civilians in maintaining the peace with our so called neighbor then in the past four wars!

Yes. And Pakistan has lost more soldiers (legitimate, uniformed and designated soldiers) in the border conflicts with India. There has been a great deal of violence committed against Muslims in India and Pakistan by Hindu extremists, and aerial strikes by India against Pakistani "terror sites", often in residential areas. There is blood being spilled by people from both countries.

The correct response to terrorism is for those of us who aren't crazy or terrified to unite while using intelligence and security forces to anticipate and prevent attacks. There are Pakistanis who absolutely hate what has happened to their country and would jump at a chance for peace. These include extremely educated, driven, intelligent men and women. I have spoken with many of them personally.
There are also Indians who fit the same description. These groups should unite and speak with one voice for peace.
So long as both sides take an us/them mentality, they will ignore the crimes of their country's extremists. This makes it easy for a politician to justify supporting them and gives the popular support necessary for these groups to exist. This leads to increased violence on both sides, which in turn inspires more folks to join extremist groups.

Any military response must be measured and precisely targeted. Attacking Pakistan as a whole makes war on the nation rather than the terrorists. Invading sovereign territory is an act of war against the nation.

As far as nukes are concerned, if they think they need to bring them out to protect the terrorists which are attacking Indian civilians, then we have enough of those to not only send them back to stone age, but also to make their whole country a giant crater!

First, the Pakistani government wouldn't pull out nukes to protect terrorists, but they might to fight against an invasion...
Second, the nuclear fallout from Indian nukes fired into Pakistan would affect the entire subcontinent, as well as much of Asia and possibly the world. The suffering and loss of innocent life on both sides would be staggering.
Third, while India has more nukes than Pakistan, Pakistan could conceivably hit most, if not all, of India's major cities.
Finally, the response of the international community is unpredictable. The US would find it difficult to support such actions. China would probably side with Pakistan, as would nearly all Muslim countries. There would be an incredible growth of violent Muslim extremists in response to such an action. It would be very bad.

[RRR]

We need violence to end the violence! We need bloodshed to stop the bloodshed! We need hatred to stop the hatred!

We all know that agencies dedicated to propaganda and violence throughout history can not be trusted. Don't be swayed by the actions of the ISI or any terrorist. Don't be fooled into becoming violent, it will solve nothing. I saw the bloodlust after 9/11 sweep the country, it was horrifying. I hope the same does not happen in India.

[yogesh sarkar]

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

Yes. And Pakistan has lost more soldiers (legitimate, uniformed and designated soldiers) in the border conflicts with India. There has been a great deal of violence committed against Muslims in India and Pakistan by Hindu extremists, and aerial strikes by India against Pakistani "terror sites", often in residential areas.

First off, India has never launched an aerial attack on Pakistan’s soil, apart from in times of war! Heck even in the Kargil conflict, we never crossed the LOC and due to it, lost a lot more soldiers then we would have, had we crossed over or launched aerial strikes at the Pakistan bases providing logistical support to the Pakistani army manning bunkers in Indian territory (yes those were Pakistani regulars and not some terrorists!), there would have been a lot less casualties on our side, had we done that. All the aerial strikes being carried out currently on Pakistani soil are by USA, which is “allay” of Pakistan. And those strikes aren’t targeted at terrorist camps operating/training for “jihad” against India.

And this is what we are demanding right now, we are not asking for annexation of POK or attack on Pakistani parliament, civilian or for that matter military installation or even a full fledged war.

We want those terrorist camps eradicated and since Pakistan is unwilling to do that and is actually helping them politically, morally and financially, it is up to the Indian armed forces to do the needful! Something we should have done a long time ago and are suffering the consequences for not doing it earlier!

If this too is unacceptable to the Pakistanis and/or the international community, then to the hell with them! We need to take action to protect our sovereignty and citizens, and it is above and beyond any thing else, if others can’t understand it, then we don’t really need to care about them. Also if this leads to a larger conflict or a full scale war, then so be it. It is better to fight a known enemy then fight those hiding between women and children.

As for Hindu-Muslim conflict/riots, those are internal matters that we can solve amongst ourselves. India is a democracy and has the largest population of Muslims in the world and they have equal rights as Indian citizens belonging to other religious faiths. Hate crimes happen all over the world, it doesn’t give other countries a right to engage in proxy war and perpetrate such acts of terrors which target innocent civilians.

[WanderingOak]

Originally Posted by yogesh sarkar

So we are just supposed to sit here and let them do anything they want and kill as many of us they wish?

India has lost more soldiers and civilians in maintaining the peace with our so called neighbor then in the past four wars! As far as nukes are concerned, if they think they need to bring them out to protect the terrorists which are attacking Indian civilians, then we have enough of those to not only send them back to stone age, but also to make their whole country a giant crater!

183 people died in the attack in Mumbai, many more die on a regular basis in the rest of the country due to the Pakistani terrorists and we have all the right in the world to strike at those who strike at us and if that means a war, then so be it. There is only so much a country and its citizens can take, before they ask their armed forces unleash their fury on the propagators of those acts.

After the atrocities that happened last week, I can understand why you would be a bit upset with Pakistan right now. However, I am starting to believe that these attacks were specifically designed to provoke such a reaction. Al Qaeda has already stated that they want a global Jihad. Since their greatest recruiting tool to this date, (soon to be ex-) President George W. Bush, is going out the door, they will need to find other ways to keep Militant Islam alive. As Thought Addict has already mentioned, a heavy handed military response against Pakistan will probably do just that, as well as paint India as 'the bad guy' in this conflict, the same way that the US was during our own silly little 'war on terror'. I hope your leadership has more foresight and common sense than the Bush Administration did after 911, because we played right into Osama's hands, doing exactly what he wanted us to.

If you think about it, what else could last week's attacks be for, but to provoke India into attacking Pakistan. If the terrorists wanted to cover their tracks, they could have done so quite easily, but instead they left a very clear trail to be followed. The one caputured terrorist said that the plan was to kill as many as five-thousand people and that he was told to 'kill to his last breath'. Instead, he played dead, and once he was in the hospital, told the medics: ‘I do not want to die. Please put me on saline’ . That could mean that he just wasn't much of a terrorist and wasn't willing to die. However, that could also mean that he may have been a plant, either knowing or unknowing, probably filled with disinformation and bad intel.

The terrorism 'problem' can be solved, but unilateral, clumsy, ham-fisted military action is not the answer. We've already seen what that does, thanks to the Bush Administration. What we need instead is for India, Pakistan, and their neighbors to work together, because that is exactly what people like Osama do not want to happen...

[yogesh sarkar]

The problem is, we have been working with Pakistan for decades and there is no change in their actual stance! They have made it a habit of deceiving India, for instance in 1999 when they were holding “peace conferences” with India, they were actually planning the Kargil conflict behind the scene.

Even now when there is a so called “truce” on the LOC, Pakistani Army has attacked Indian Army installations and have caused causalities on multiple occasions.

While like in every society, there are open minded Pakistani’s who are against all this, they are not the ones in control and wouldn’t be in control for a foreseeable future. Those in real control treat India as an enemy and continue to plot such barbaric acts.

I don’t see how we can actually expect to have constructive dialogue with them, while they continually stab us in the back!

If the open minded Pakistani’s believe, that those terrorists are actually working against both the countries and do not support them, I don’t see why they would have any issues with India strategically taking out the terrorist training camps, which at this very moment, are training thousands of terrorists to unleash more such terror attacks in India and even in Pakistan. Cause frankly speaking, the Pakistani Armed forces aren’t going to act against them.

As for people of India, the writing is clear on the wall for the politicians to read, act now or we will throw you out. On Saturday, there were elections in Delhi for the state assembly and the voter turnout was whopping 6% higher than the last time (60%, opposed 54% last time), which means a million more Delhiites came out to vote for change and to say in a united voice, NO MORE!

[escapee]

Pakistan and India are both nuclear powers, each possessing enough nuke arsenal to create a "large crater" and severe infrastructure damage on each other. A large scale war between the two nations is unthinkable and should be avoided at all cause.

Three million would die in "limited" nuclear war over Kashmir - 24 May 2002 - New Scientist

They conclude that hundreds of thousands of people would be killed or badly injured in every city, amounting to 2.6 million in India and 1.8 million in Pakistan. The prospect is credible and devastating, warns M V Ramana one of the researchers from Princeton University, New Jersey and an expert on nuclear policy in India.

"It is imperative that the two countries not go to war - however limited in scale. Even the most local conflicts have the potential to escalate into a full-scale war, possibly nuclear," Ramana told New Scientist.

Albert Einstein was asked, “Can you say something about what is going to happen in the third world war?” and Einstein said, “Excuse me, I cannot say anything about the third world war, but I can say something about the fourth.”

The questioner could not believe it, he said “You cannot say anything about the third  and it is so complicated  yet you are ready to say something about the fourth, which will be even more complicated!”

Albert Einstein said, “You don’t understand.I can say something definitively, categorically, about the fourth. And that is that the fourth is never going to happen, because the third will destroy all life  not only human beings, roses too. All that is living will disappear from the earth.”

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by yogesh sarkar

While like in every society, there are open minded Pakistani’s who are against all this, they are not the ones in control and wouldn’t be in control for a foreseeable future. Those in real control treat India as an enemy and continue to plot such barbaric acts.

. . .

If the open minded Pakistani’s believe, that those terrorists are actually working against both the countries and do not support them, I don’t see why they would have any issues with India strategically taking out the terrorist training camps, which at this very moment, are training thousands of terrorists to unleash more such terror attacks in India and even in Pakistan.

The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend. The Pakistani expats I've spoken with recently would agree with accepting aid, including military training and joint strike forces. They absolutely do not agree with invasions or strikes into sovereign territory. Basically, they don't trust India or the US to look out for the interests of Pakistan.
This is also a place religion comes into the mix. One teaching of Islam is that you cannot make aggressive war, but can and should fight to defend invasions, especially those invasions against other Muslims. An invasion provides an incentive to fight against the invader, beside the terrorist.

An Indian invasion is tactically unwise. It gives credibility to the extremists' message (namely, "they want to invade and destroy us"). It creates the perfect breeding ground for terror and provides a target. Currently, the entire world mourns with India, whether Christian, Muslim, or Jew. Just like the US after 9/11, India has the opportunity to prove that they will not succumb to terrorism and won't let extremists dictate their actions.

As for Hindu-Muslim conflict/riots, those are internal matters that we can solve amongst ourselves. India is a democracy and has the largest population of Muslims in the world and they have equal rights as Indian citizens belonging to other religious faiths. Hate crimes happen all over the world, it doesn’t give other countries a right to engage in proxy war and perpetrate such acts of terrors which target innocent civilians.

The actions of Bajrang Dal or the Visha Hindu Parishad are not simple "hate crimes". They are terrorism. Terrorism with close ties to Indian government, mirroring the ISI involvement in extremist groups.
You say that these groups' actions don't give other countries a right to engage in war. I agree. They don't give Pakistan the right to invade India. Similarly, the actions of Pakistani terrorist groups do not give India a right to invade.

[Brutha]

While like in every society, there are open minded Pakistani’s who are against all this, they are not the ones in control and wouldn’t be in control for a foreseeable future. Those in real control treat India as an enemy and continue to plot such barbaric acts.

A military strike wouldn't put the right people into power.

The question isn't as much about rights as it is about effective behavior.
Going to war doesn't seem to be effective.

[Dev]

Peace has been given a chance by India more than a dozen times. There have been confidence-building measures, peace trains, group exchanges & trade benefits to each other. Inspite of all these what we see at the ground level is that Pakistan doesn't seem to be very sincere while dealing with extremists on its territory, very well knowing that the same monster could gulp them too! (As monster Osama is doing to his creator - the US)
I believe one of the root cause is the way Islam as a religion is being interpreted. I would like to give 2 specific examples. First, for majority of believers of Islam, the concept of brotherhood is limited to only those who follow their religion(either by birth or converts) and Secondly, those who follow Islam are people of God(there is no other God then Allah) and all others are 'kafirs' - non-believers(loosely translated as siding with Satan/Shaitan/Devil). This belief itself destroys the concept of brotherhood & principle of Oneness. I find that the teachings in the holy Koran almost matches that of Bhagvad Gita & I have no reason to believe that the Bible or any other religious scripture would be any different.
Steve points out that the Principle of Truth, Love & Power is universal, so I have every reason to believe that irrespective of our religion, language, nationality etc. we are all one.
But what me & Yogesh are trying to tell in this forum is that there is a limit or point at which Peace can be given a chance to your adversaries. Osho has told "For Peace, War is necessary". Krishna gave peace so many chances while dealing with Kauravas in the Mahabharat. Finally the Lord himself asked the Pandavas to pick up their weapon for the establishment of Dharma (truth or righteousness).
Bowing ones head to wrong doing is also weakness. Even Mahatma Gandhi would never call this as violence.
At this moment the important question is - have we given peace the final chance? Does India need to pick up its weapon for establishing Dharma?