Somali as the Libertarian dream

[Brutha]

Somali happens to be a state in which the government has no power.
Because they fisher thought that there was still a need to police the water and protect them from fishing to much, they rotted together to punish illegal fishing from foreigners with huge boats.

Living the High Life as a Somali Pirate | Beyond the Beyond from Wired.com
Their business model thieves. On the one hand that might show that the free market can produce solutions to many problems.
On the other hand, their business model leads to huge problems since nobody can pass those water anymore without the fear of having to pay ransoms to pirates.

Are those people following the libertarian ideal of taking matters in their own hands when there isn't a state?
Is that way of organizing society better than having a government that with a monopole of violence which can policy the waters?

[tobyhede]

Interesting article:

Somali piracy has become a major news item, and most are blaming Somalia’s chronic anarchy. In truth, the pirates have become a highly organized business that originates in the stable civic society of Puntland in the north, not the chaos of the warring south.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Are those people following the libertarian ideal of taking matters in their own hands when there isn't a state?

Is that way of organizing society better than having a government that with a monopole of violence which can policy the waters?

Brutha - making this claim is like claiming that Iraq is now a true democracy with everyone possessing full freedom because they had elections once while the Americans troops controlled the government.

[Brutha]

Brutha - making this claim is like claiming that Iraq is now a true democracy with everyone possessing full freedom because they had elections once while the Americans troops controlled the government.

No government troops stand in the way of those pirates like those US troops that have control in Iraq.
It all private fishers who changed to a new business model and do have the local power.

The player that have the power on the sea are the individuals in small communities and not some government force.

[escapee]

Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There are several kinds of libertarianism.

Libertarian conservatism seems to be the most relevant to the popularity of recent libertarian movement advocated by RP, with a strong belief on limited government (ie bailing zombie company ), sound monetary system, strong national defense and opposition to empire building.

So which type of Libertarianism were you trying to refer to with regard to the somalian piracy? Anarchism or simply criminal activities ?

like those US troops that have control in Iraq.

Like Mongols in Iraq ?

The Mongol Invasion of Iraq: Lessons Never Learned - by Amir Butler

[Brutha]

So which type of Libertarianism were you trying to refer to with regard to the somalian piracy? Anarchism or simply criminal activities ?

Anarchism.

Like Mongols in Iraq ?

I haven't claimed that their control is stable and that it isn't possible for whatever group to kick them out in a few years, but at the moment the US is able to shut down operation on that territory.

[Lauxa]

IMO, this isn't Libertarianism because Libertarians believe in property ownership and government enforcement of that ownership. If the Somali's parceled out the seas to individual owners and then granted the owners full authority to defend their plots along with gov't backup of such actions, that would be a libertarian solution. There are differences between libertarianism and anarchism.

As to whether it is better than a gov't monopoly -- depends on the government and on the pirates. Many governments are corrupt enough that officials may need to be bribed to ensure citizen safety. Or they simply outlaw certain activities to people who don't buy the proper licenses, etc.

It looks from the article that the "pirates" started off performing legitimate self-policing activities but were corrupted by success. Reminds me of quote - "Liberty creates wealth and wealth destroys liberty."