Fear of Obama

[pianoperformer]

But, it’s not funny to say to tell republicans not to vote. If you think your candidate has what it takes to win, then let it happen, fairly. Of course, I don’t actually think (I hope not) that you will tell republicans not to vote, but the idea isn’t even funny.

I’m truly frightened if Obama wins, and I’m hoping he doesn’t.

[Patty]

Just curious, what is the basis for your fear?

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Patty

Just curious, what is the basis for your fear?

I don’t think I’m going to share that, because most people here would extremely disagree. I think there are some very questionable connections associated with him, and some things he supports that are absolutely disgusting and horrible.

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I don’t think I’m going to share that, because most people here would extremely disagree. I think there are some very questionable connections associated with him, and some things he supports that are absolutely disgusting and horrible.

I'll bet it has to do with potential terrorist and babies.....and I agree wholeheartedly, he is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Anyhow, we'll all deal with it one way or another because fortunately our system is designed prevent total control being put in one persons hands. Bush has pushed the limits with his invocation of the "war time status" but he had to fight for every inch.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

But, it’s not funny to say to tell republicans not to vote. If you think your candidate has what it takes to win, then let it happen, fairly. Of course, I don’t actually think (I hope not) that you will tell republicans not to vote, but the idea isn’t even funny.

I’m truly frightened if Obama wins, and I’m hoping he doesn’t.

You are aware of course that republicans vote Wednesday, aren't you?

[Poster]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I don’t think I’m going to share that, because most people here would extremely disagree. I think there are some very questionable connections associated with him, and some things he supports that are absolutely disgusting and horrible.

Do you always shy away when potential disagreement is in the air? If so, there are quite a lot of people whom disagree with your choice for president. Does that mean you will hold your vote back as well?

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Poster

You are aware of course that republicans vote Wednesday, aren't you?

No we voted today too, it took me a while because I had to vote for a few dead relatives, long lost pets, and all my daughters stuffed animals.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by jeff3

I'll bet it has to do with potential terrorist and babies.....and I agree wholeheartedly, he is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Anyhow, we'll all deal with it one way or another because fortunately our system is designed prevent total control being put in one persons hands. Bush has pushed the limits with his invocation of the "war time status" but he had to fight for every inch.

Got any unbiased proof, or do you make a habit of throwing around innuendo? If so, then I'm glad we're not friends or related.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by jeff3

No we voted today too, it took me a while because I had to vote for a few dead relatives, long lost pets, and all my daughters stuffed animals.

You might as well vote for them since your guy doesn't stand a chance.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I don’t think I’m going to share that, because most people here would extremely disagree. I think there are some very questionable connections associated with him, and some things he supports that are absolutely disgusting and horrible.

Hey, how about that, I feel the same way about John McCain & Sarah Palin, except that I feel very free and confident and joyous about openly sharing my opinions about them -- even with people who extremely disagree!

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Patty

Just curious, what is the basis for your fear?

If fearful people could answer that question they wouldn't be afraid, would they?

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Poster

Got any unbiased proof, or do you make a habit of throwing around innuendo? If so, then I'm glad we're not friends or related.

Just his voting record, and FBI reports on his associates. You know, silly things like that.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by jeff3

Just his voting record, and FBI reports on his associates. You know, silly things like that.

Show me the votes you're talking about. Have you ever had any association whatsoever with anyone with a questionable character or past? If so, you must be a bad person, right. Now you of course will most likely not answer that last question in the affirmative regardless of whatever the truth may be, but it speaks to the character of those whom make such judgments based on nothing more than politics of fear.

Us liberals are constantly throwing flawed people into the arena, aren't we? Thats the problem with so many republicans, they insult the intelligence of hundreds of millions of people with one sentence. I doubt they realize how absurd and elitist they seem.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by jeff3

I'll bet it has to do with potential terrorist and babies.....and I agree wholeheartedly, he is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Anyhow, we'll all deal with it one way or another because fortunately our system is designed prevent total control being put in one persons hands. Bush has pushed the limits with his invocation of the "war time status" but he had to fight for every inch.

You would be absolutely right. That’s exactly what I mean.

His record on abortion disgusts me. All types of abortion, including partial birth, live birth, etc. America’s liberalism when it comes to abortion will come back on it someday, and I hope it’s not during these four years.

It is a good enough reason to vote for McCain, for the sake of the millions of lives that may otherwise be aborted, or at least, to stop our trek leftward on this issue.

I just didn’t want to start a debate here, because I know I’m in the minority.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

You would be absolutely right. That’s exactly what I mean.

His record on abortion disgusts me. All types of abortion, including partial birth, live birth, etc. America’s liberalism when it comes to abortion will come back on it someday, and I hope it’s not during these four years.

It is a good enough reason to vote for McCain, for the sake of the millions of lives that may otherwise be aborted, or at least, to stop our trek leftward on this issue.

I just didn’t want to start a debate here, because I know I’m in the minority.

My first question to you is which one is Obama, the one actually performing the chosen abortions or the one dragging these women in by their feet.

My second question concerns what you call partial birth abortion. Do you think these ladies are carrying their pregnancy to such a late term intentionally so they can abort them at the last possible second because they are evil liberals and hate babies?

[Dan.Linehan]

PP, I read your blog post about the abortion clinic.

Maybe if women knew they would have more loving support from society they wouldn't have so many abortions. Just as one example, universal day care for every child in America would cost only a tiny fraction of the $10B / month we spend in Iraq, that John McCain would continue spending.

I don't understand the so called "conservative" viewpoint on this. Conservatives seem to be against universal healthcare, so then women are afraid that they can't afford pregnancy in the first place. Conservatives also don't support universal child care, and scream "socialism" from the rafters if it's even brought up. But then they consider abortions disgusting and refuse to look at the whole societal picture holistically.

If women don't feel safe bringing a child into the world of course they'll have abortions instead. And conservative economics have not helped the middle class in decades.

[Dan.Linehan]

I also find it highly ironic that conservatives tend to be staunchly anti-abortion, but then proceed demonize the children once they are born, sometimes resigning them to lives of crime by the time they are only ten, without even taking the most basic human steps towards intervention.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

I also find it highly ironic that conservatives tend to be staunchly anti-abortion, but then proceed demonize the children once they are born, sometimes resigning them to lives of crime by the time they are only ten, without even taking basic human steps towards intervention.

Not to mention the ironic fact that most conservatives are pro death penalty and anti immigration.

[WordKeeper]

I am interested in Pianoperformer's fears as well. I have read Jeff3's on another thread. But unfortunately just as Pianoperformer suggested her views were jumped on and argued against.

I don't share Pianoperformer's point of view but I do think it would be nice if she/he were allowed to air her/his view without being challenged.

I would be more interested in reading Jeff3's views if there were not so much poison pill venom in there.

Wondering why it is so difficult to read someone's view without arguing it - as though they haven't thought it through already and are just in need of your clear thinking to set then straight? Hmm.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

I am interested in Pianoperformer's fears as well. I have read Jeff3's on another thread. But unfortunately just as Pianoperformer suggested her views were jumped on and argued against.

I don't share Pianoperformer's point of view but I do think it would be nice if she/he were allowed to air her/his view without being challenged.

I would be more interested in reading Jeff3's views if there were not so much poison pill venom in there.

Wondering why it is so difficult to read someone's view without arguing it - as though they haven't thought it through already and are just in need of your clear thinking to set then straight? Hmm.

I'm thinking that they would be views if they were not attached to attacking someone else's character in the process. This partial birth abortion issue is mostly a red herring from the religious right.

Besides, this is a forum where challenging myth and innuendo is what we do, no? Plus, PP has already stated she is not going to go any further with the issue. My best guess for that is because he/she is not able to articulate to his/her own satisfaction what it is that he/she needs to convey. That would also be a reasonable possible explanation as to why challenges are not welcome.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Poster

My first question to you is which one is Obama, the one actually performing the chosen abortions or the one dragging these women in by their feet.

My second question concerns what you call partial birth abortion. Do you think these ladies are carrying their pregnancy to such a late term intentionally so they can abort them at the last possible second because they are evil liberals and hate babies?

I'm not sure what you are suggesting by your first question.

it doesn't matter what their intentions are. Killing them at birth is just as bad as killing them days or weeks in. It's a baby. it has a right to life. The mother's desires don't count once that baby is alive. I mean that she can't just pretend as though the baby doesn't exist.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

PP, I read your blog post about the abortion clinic.

Maybe if women knew they would have more loving support from society they wouldn't have so many abortions. Just as one example, universal day care for every child in America would cost only a tiny fraction of the $10B / month we spend in Iraq, that John McCain would continue spending.

I don't understand the so called "conservative" viewpoint on this. Conservatives seem to be against universal healthcare, so then women are afraid that they can't afford pregnancy in the first place. Conservatives also don't support universal child care, and scream "socialism" from the rafters if it's even brought up. But then they consider abortions disgusting and refuse to look at the whole societal picture holistically.

If women don't feel safe bringing a child into the world of course they'll have abortions instead. And conservative economics have not helped the middle class in decades.

I'm not arguing economics nor health care. Regardless of how good or bad they are, no one has the right to take the life of an infant.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I'm not sure what you are suggesting by your first question.

it doesn't matter what their intentions are. Killing them at birth is just as bad as killing them days or weeks in. It's a baby. it has a right to life. The mother's desires don't count once that baby is alive. I mean that she can't just pretend as though the baby doesn't exist.

'Mothers desires' is an interesting choice of words, PP. You think all abortions are about the desires of the female? That doesn't say much for womens intellect. Do you believe women are strictly emotional beings?

The part of my first post which confused you was why blame elected officials for the choices of necessity made by women whom decide to have this unpleasant procedure.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Poster

I'm thinking that they would be views if they were not attached to attacking someone else's character in the process. This partial birth abortion issue is mostly a red herring from the religious right.

Besides, this is a forum where challenging myth and innuendo is what we do, no? Plus, PP has already stated she is not going to go any further with the issue. My best guess for that is because he/she is not able to articulate to his/her own satisfaction what it is that he/she needs to convey. That would also be a reasonable possible explanation as to why challenges are not welcome.

No, I did not want to continue with the issue because I know people here mostly look unfavorably on such opinions, and I'm not interested in debating. We have very different world views. I am Catholic, and most people here would think of that as crazy, close-minded, antequated, and overall not something "smart" people would be. That is relevant, because my religion shapes my views.

How is it a red herring? To know that one of the presidential candidates supports killing a baby as it is being born, or inducing extreme premature delivery so as to kill the baby, seems to be valuable knowledge. I would never fathom voting for such a person, because I equate that with murder.

if you disagree, that is your right. I expressed that I have my own views, and am not interested in debating them, but was prompted to reveal them, anyway.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Poster

'
Mothers desires' is an interesting choice of words, PP. You think all abortions are about the desires of the female? That doesn't say much for womens intellect. Do you believe women are strictly emotional beings?

You're reading too much into my choice of words, and are creating a strawman.

Originally Posted by Poster

'
The part of my first post which confused you was why blame elected officials for the choices of necessity made by women whom decide to have this unpleasant procedure.

If it's available, people will take advantage of it. Look at contraceptives. The "pill" has been available for over 40 years now, which I attribute to the extreme lowering of morality in America. It is available now, so people think it's OK to use it. Sex is no big deal anymore. If you don't want to get pregnant, just use the pill or other form of contraception. If it fails, just get an abortion. No problem.

Disgusting.

No, I'm not saying that is the cause for all abortions, before you try to claim I am. I'm saying it is an attempted, but faulty, solution to something caused by ourselves.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

No, I did not want to continue with the issue because I know people here mostly look unfavorably on such opinions, and I'm not interested in debating. We have very different world views. I am Catholic, and most people here would think of that as crazy, close-minded, antequated, and overall not something "smart" people would be. That is relevant, because my religion shapes my views.

How is it a red herring? To know that one of the presidential candidates supports killing a baby as it is being born, or inducing extreme premature delivery so as to kill the baby, seems to be valuable knowledge. I would never fathom voting for such a person, because I equate that with murder.

if you disagree, that is your right. I expressed that I have my own views, and am not interested in debating them, but was prompted to reveal them, anyway.

Why then would you put yourself in the mist of such a situation like the confines of such a group of people, PP? If you're at such a disadvantage opinion wise what do you get out of being here?

You failed to address why it is you think women want to get themselves pregnant to only carry to a late term so that they can kill the child.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I'm not arguing economics nor health care.

As long as you are discussing abortion, you are certainly arguing economics and health care. Education as well, for that matter.

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Regardless of how good or bad they are, no one has the right to take the life of an infant.

Then... what would give McCain the right to bomb bomb bomb Iran?

[Poster]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

You're reading too much into my choice of words, and are creating a strawman.

They were your words, not mine...

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

If it's available, people will take advantage of it. Look at contraceptives. The "pill" has been available for over 40 years now, which I attribute to the extreme lowering of morality in America. It is available now, so people think it's OK to use it. Sex is no big deal anymore. If you don't want to get pregnant, just use the pill or other form of contraception. If it fails, just get an abortion. No problem.

Disgusting.

No, I'm not saying that is the cause for all abortions, before you try to claim I am. I'm saying it is an attempted, but faulty, solution to something caused by ourselves.

I'm only following your lead.

This is obviously an issue you anguish over, and thats a good thing IMO, however, there must come a time when you decide to see it from a reasonable standpoint rather than from a strictly emotional side, and until then you will continue to anguish over it and make comments out of anger.

I'm guessing you try to stay away from the issue because of what it does to you inside, but have difficulty staying away from it because you feel passionate about it. Let me just say that it is possible that fundamental posturing may do more to hurt your cause than it does to help it. With that in mind, consider how many young women have abortions due to the unkind way in which some fundamentalist approach this. They may therefore be as responsible for abortions as any politician.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Poster

Why then would you put yourself in the mist of such a situation like the confines of such a group of people, PP? If you're at such a disadvantage opinion wise what do you get out of being here?

Absolutely nothing. I came back for a short discussion on another thread, and saw this thread as well, and just wanted to express my opinion, or my fear of Obama being elected. It wasn't my desire to get drawn into a debate here.

Originally Posted by Poster

You failed to address why it is you think women want to get themselves pregnant to only carry to a late term so that they can kill the child.

I didn't say that, either. I said that to allow partial birth abortion is horrible and is no less than murder.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

As long as you are discussing abortion, you are certainly arguing economics and health care. Education as well, for that matter.

Not at all. I'm strictly against abortion, regardless of education, health care, economics, etc. Those pale in comparison to this issue.

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Then... what would give McCain the right to bomb bomb bomb Iran?

I never claimed he is perfect. The thing is to see which one respects life more.