Attack against McCain supporter

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Daniel Birdick

You were wrong about the “attack” on the McCain supporter. She lied. Plain and simple.

Your comments about “African American hoodlums” merely “doing what they do” is racist. Plain and simple.

Why do I say that? Because you did not say, in this post or in your previous posts in this thread, that these particular black kids in your particular neighborhood were acting like hoodlums, as some kids of all colors in many neighborhoods have been known to do from time to time. You started this thread to point out a story about a McCain supporter being attacked by a Obama supporter and then you followed that up with stories about African American hoodlums verbally assaulting your daughter and doing other unsavory things, which is of course, “just what they do”. Verbal and physical violence is what “they” do. It’s natural. It’s instinctive. Right? Black man, his supporters, attack on white female McCain supporter… Black kids, attack on young white girl… Anyone can see the correlation, right? Yeah… no. Correlation does not equal causation, and in this case, the correlation itself is illegitimate. Then again, being familiar with debate tactics, I'm sure you are well aware of that.

If your only problem was with the behavior of your neighbors and their kids, and if race has absolutely nothing to do with it, then why did you bring it up at all? Why did we need to know that these kids and the neighbors are black? How is their race relevant, unless of course, you were in fact trying to force a correlation between their race and their behavior?

Yes, I was wrong about the McCain supporter,and actually said she may be lying in an early post.

The statement, "My neighborhood has taken a drastic change for the worse since it has become integrated" is factually true. If you cannot see that there is tension between the races and that that tension often results in the behavior I mentioned then you are blind. It also caused the formation of the clan by whites, hangings by whites, rioting by blacks, and the aggressive and disrespectful behavior I mentioned in my neighbor hood by blacks. I'm not talking about disrespect on some kind of superiority slant either, I'm talking about basic respect all humans deserve. These kids are the ones being racists, I'm reporting my observations of this behavior and because I'm not taking the PC pill, I'm being called the racist. Sometimes it is what it is, and this is one of those times. Sure white kids and purple kids and rainbow kids can and do act this way but the behavior I'm seeing from these kids is almost certainly a reflection of what their parents are saying and doing behind closed doors.

[Dan.Linehan]

I'm sorry your neighborhood has gone downhill Jeff. And especially sorry that your daughter is being harassed.

[Daniel Birdick]

Originally Posted by jeff3

The statement, "My neighborhood has taken a drastic change for the worse since it has become integrated" is factually true.

Maybe, but so what? What, if anything does that have to say about the so called inherent nature of blacks, whites and violence?

If you cannot see that there is tension between the races and that that tension often results in the behavior I mentioned then you are blind.

I don't see a race war on the horizon, ergo I am blind. OR, you could be projecting.

I'm talking about basic respect all humans deserve.

That's just it. If you're making an argument about basic human decency, then race is not a relevant factor. Unless of course you are implying that race is a relevant factor because black male=violence against white females.

because I'm not taking the PC pill, I'm being called the racist.

I never called you a racist. I said some of your statements were racist. You are implying that it is inevitable that black males must treat white females violently by linking the original story about the false attack with the story about your daughter being verbally disrespected. You never said those actual words, I'll grant you that. However, any intelligent person can see that's precisely what you were implying. It's that old blood libel that's been used against black men for centuries: if white men aren't careful, black men will inevitably "defile the flower of caucasion womanhood." Gotta love racist code speak!

Sometimes it is what it is, and this is one of those times.

It always is what it is. Reality rules. I don't think your interpretation of reality in this particular instance is accurate though.

Sure white kids and purple kids and rainbow kids can and do act this way but the behavior I'm seeing from these kids is almost certainly a reflection of what their parents are saying and doing behind closed doors.

Like I said before, if you'd left it at that, then I'd agree with you. You didn't leave it at that. You made sure we all knew that these kids and their parents are black. You felt that their race was important for us to know. And within the context of this thread, it's pretty clear why you felt we needed to know their race.

[Dan.Linehan]

I wonder what prospects for the future that ten year old has.

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

I wonder what prospects for the future that ten year old has.

I see an older woman come by their house often and she may be his grandmother, I thought about telling her about what is going on so she can jerk a knot in his tail before he ends up in big trouble. The adults there, I assume they are his parents, don't seem to care what he does but that's just a guess based on seeing him act like this while they are outside. The problem with saying anything to them is them is racial tension I'm talking about, if he was white I would go knock on their door and tell them their kid is a hooligan and needs some correcting, but in this situation, if I complain it's likely to be thrown back at me like it has been in this thread.

To answer your question, I see prison in his future.

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Daniel Birdick

Maybe, but so what? What, if anything does that have to say about the so called inherent nature of blacks, whites and violence?



I don't see a race war on the horizon, ergo I am blind. OR, you could be projecting.



That's just it. If you're making an argument about basic human decency, then race is not a relevant factor. Unless of course you are implying that race is a relevant factor because black male=violence against white females.



I never called you a racist. I said some of your statements were racist. You are implying that it is inevitable that black males must treat white females violently by linking the original story about the false attack with the story about your daughter being verbally disrespected. You never said those actual words, I'll grant you that. However, any intelligent person can see that's precisely what you were implying. It's that old blood libel that's been used against black men for centuries: if white men aren't careful, black men will inevitably "defile the flower of caucasion womanhood." Gotta love racist code speak!



It always is what it is. Reality rules. I don't think your interpretation of reality in this particular instance is accurate though.



Like I said before, if you'd left it at that, then I'd agree with you. You didn't leave it at that. You made sure we all knew that these kids and their parents are black. You felt that their race was important for us to know. And within the context of this thread, it's pretty clear why you felt we needed to know their race.

I never considered the OLD black male going after the white women thing, it just happens to be what I was saying about my neighborhood and the kid is about 10, not hardly the stereotype you mentioned. I assure you it was a coincidence.

[beautyscientist]

Originally Posted by Barcs

Sounds similar to the guy who was shot in London for wearing an Obama shirt.

When did this happen? There is more gun crime in London than there used to be, but even so most shootings get national news coverage and I don't remember hearing about this.

There does seem to be a lot of anger in the US at the moment.

[Dan.Linehan]

Here is an article about it beautyscientist.

Man shot three times by racist gunman - for wearing Barack Obama T-shirt | Mail Online

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by jeff3

I see an older woman come by their house often and she may be his grandmother, I thought about telling her about what is going on so she can jerk a knot in his tail before he ends up in big trouble. The adults there, I assume they are his parents, don't seem to care what he does but that's just a guess based on seeing him act like this while they are outside. The problem with saying anything to them is them is racial tension I'm talking about, if he was white I would go knock on their door and tell them their kid is a hooligan and needs some correcting, but in this situation, if I complain it's likely to be thrown back at me like it has been in this thread.

To answer your question, I see prison in his future.

Why don't you invite their whole family over for dinner? Something like that might change everything.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by jeff3

The problem with saying anything to them is them is racial tension I'm talking about, if he was white I would go knock on their door and tell them their kid is a hooligan and needs some correcting, but in this situation, if I complain it's likely to be thrown back at me like it has been in this thread.

IF you go over there and say "because this is the way black people are, your kid is a hooligan" then yeah it would be like this thread and I'm sure you'd meet resistance. In this thread you made the connection between his race and his behavior. You just had to throw in that he was black rather than say there's a boy in the neighborhood harassing my daughter, you say there's a black boy in the neighborhood harassing my daughter. I'm sorry, but there's a huge difference in those two statements.

People like you make me really uncomfortable because you are perfectly happy being racist and think anyone who disagrees with you is the PC police. I'm not actually terribly PC, I just call out racism when I see it. Your statements have been racist in my opinion.

I guess the mods don't agree with me and that is okay of course. Maybe I am in the wrong. You have the right to free speech, but to me it's hate speech and I won't just act like I didn't see it.

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

IF you go over there and say "because this is the way black people are, your kid is a hooligan" then yeah it would be like this thread and I'm sure you'd meet resistance. In this thread you made the connection between his race and his behavior. You just had to throw in that he was black rather than say there's a boy in the neighborhood harassing my daughter, you say there's a black boy in the neighborhood harassing my daughter. I'm sorry, but there's a huge difference in those two statements.

People like you make me really uncomfortable because you are perfectly happy being racist and think anyone who disagrees with you is the PC police. I'm not actually terribly PC, I just call out racism when I see it. Your statements have been racist in my opinion.

I guess the mods don't agree with me and that is okay of course. Maybe I am in the wrong. You have the right to free speech, but to me it's hate speech and I won't just act like I didn't see it.

It wasn't just the kid bothering my daughter I mentioned, there were several more things, that's just the one I found most intolerable. Is it racist to say 85% of the prison population is black, when it's a fact? Or is that the result of racism as some claim? It could actually be because they are committing 85% of the crime, but it would be PI to say that, we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings of course. The problem with PCness as it applies to racism is that it perpetuates the problem by covering it up. If we try and say those 85% don't belong in prison we miss the opportunity to a find out why they are there.

I'm a big believer in IM and "thought creates reality" and the problems minorities face I think are directly related to self image, which in many cases is created and perpetuated by the majority in an effort to maintain control. What I'm getting at is that it's impossible for me or anyone else to "keep someone down", we can, however dis-empower people to the point that they "keep themselves down", and they do this through their own actions. I have a lot of thoughts about how "group think" and IM operates in the racial arena but that's not what this thread was about. To fail to point out problems that a group of people have is doing them a disservice because it gives a false sense that "all is well". The best way to perpetuate a problem is to pretend there is no problem and if I were a real racists or Nazi type I would be all for just ignoring the problem so It would continue. There is a big difference between naming and blaming and all I've done is point out a situation that has unfolded on my street since I moved there.


Since this is such a touchy subject and I suppose if I were misinterpreted I could get banned, I think I'll just stop on this one.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Jeff,

Could you post some links to some reports to back up the statement that 85% of the prison population is black? I have been doing some research, and have not found anything to back that up yet. According to this report by the Hoover Institution Facts on Policy: Prison Demographics only 42% of the prison population is black, while 40 percent is white. There are more white women then black women in prison. Also something I found interesting in this report is that 93% of the prison population is male. What does this say about men?

[funchy]

The woman turned out to be a nut.

What her insane rantings did do was bring out some hidden feelings against certain races (or even towards certain candidates). It's amazing how many people heard the story and immediately believed every word of this unlikely story.

Same goes for the guy shot in London for supposedly wearing an Obama shirt. We have to take his word for it. Maybe it's true, but that's odd considering Obama has nothing to do with England. Maybe it's because Mr Egwuatu is black? Maybe for all we know the shooter is the husband of Mr Egwuatu's mistress? We really don't know. Unless I missed it I also didn't see a description of the race of the assailant. Question: would this still be a race crime if it turned out he was also black?

My point is that it's easy to fill in the blanks with our own personal beliefs and expectations. But the world doesn't always work the way we believe it to, and we need to be open to that possibility.

As far as hurting McCain: those who where swearing allegiance to McCain will vote for him, even if he turns out to be a purple alien from the plant Neptune. Those who were undecided might be swayed or might not. I think McCain has more to fear from his renegade VP choice than from some crazy lady, but that's just my opinion.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by funchy

Same goes for the guy shot in London for supposedly wearing an Obama shirt. We have to take his word for it. Maybe it's true, but that's odd considering Obama has nothing to do with England. Maybe it's because Mr Egwuatu is black? Maybe for all we know the shooter is the husband of Mr Egwuatu's mistress? We really don't know. Unless I missed it I also didn't see a description of the race of the assailant. Question: would this still be a race crime if it turned out he was also black?

The article does say the shooter was white.

But the shaven-headed man, who was white, followed Mr Egwuatu and after pulling open the passenger door pointed the gun at him.

[Dan.Linehan]

It's easy to forget how recently prejudices against African Americans were perfectly acceptable in the United States. Inter-racial marriages were only made legal in 1967, for example. Even at that time 70% of the population was against it. We are now barely one generation away from those times.

To expect everything to be peachy keen with race relations after such a short time isn't very realistic.

To me, the idea of writing off a ten year old without ever even talking to him, without ever trying to be a positive influence, is pretty sad. The boy's actions are obviously a cry for help and attention.

[ar81]

It looks like political hooliganism to me.
Instead of politics, USA needs soccer.

[Dan.Linehan]

Ashley Todd was a paid organizer, not a volunteer.

[carenkh]

She's really ill - just saw on Boing Boing she was asked to leave a group of Ron Paul supporters for hoax-type calls to Huckabee's office, plus she faked a tire-slashing "because she had Ron Paul literature in her car."

edited to add: One of the comments says "at least she can't carve an H into her own face backwards". Ouch.

[Dan.Linehan]

Why would she get her record expunged? I thought that only happened if you were under 18..

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Why would she get her record expunged? I thought that only happened if you were under 18..

It's a legal tactic used in many minor offenses as part of a "bargain" to get people to follow through with treatment, rehab, ect... . In AR it can even be used in traffic court with the stipulation you get no citations of any sort for a certain period of time, usually 1 year. If you have had an offense in the previous year you are ineligible. They don't advertise it and since it's traffic court most people just pay the ticket. A friend of mine that is a warrant officer let me in on it long ago. Saves on the ticket, but more importantly the potential insurance increase.

[Dan.Linehan]

After I thought about it, it's probably a good idea. It doesn't do anyone any good to be stuck with a record indefinitely.