If the Dems have the guts..

[coollikeme]

I could switch my vote. It is very suspicious to me about the 700 billion dollar bailout. The world is coming to and end is what it sounds like. All the so-called big wigs seem to be saying. To me it seems like you are rewarding bad companies, not even knowing that the bailout will work. It also seems like they are trying to rush the decision through, which makes me very suspicious. The Dems have the power to stop this, lets see if they have the guts. There is something not right about this what is going on. This looks like the transfer of wealth, so who stands to benefit.

[Barcs]

According to Bush's speech tonight the bill is absolutely necessary. I really hope they read the entire thing this time and don't just approve it out of fear for the economy. Limiting executive's salary's should definitely happen and be part of this bill, if it does go through. The government should own those businesses now since they essentially will be buying them with this bailout.

[JMan]

Originally Posted by Barcs

According to Bush's speech tonight the bill is absolutely necessary. I really hope they read the entire thing this time and don't just approve it out of fear for the economy. Limiting executive's salary's should definitely happen and be part of this bill, if it does go through. The government should own those businesses now since they essentially will be buying them with this bailout.

Someone on TV today posed that they could give the $700billion to us, the population, saying 'we'd all be millionaires'. Someone didn't run the math:

There's 305million American citizens - that would be $2295 each.

U.S. Population: U.S. and World Population Clocks - POPClocks

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by coollikeme

To me it seems like you are rewarding bad companies, not even knowing that the bailout will work.

It won't. Inflation is the problem.

Originally Posted by http://socialistworker.org/2008/09/24/free-market-meltdown

The basics of the crisis are straightforward: Workers' wage increases in the 2000s haven't kept pace with the rate of inflation. That's because virtually the entire increase in national income since the recession of 2001 went to capital instead of labor.

So to maintain their standard of living, many workers borrowed money against their houses with mortgage refinancing or got adjustable-rate mortgage with teaser low interest rates. In turn, Wall Street bought up these mortgages and packaged them into securities, to be sold off to big investors.

When workers could no longer pay, their mortgage foreclosure rates increased, and the value of these mortgage-backed securities started to fall. This set off a chain reaction among big banks, which forced them to admit the scale of bad mortgage-related debt that they had kept hidden.

Throwing a $700 billion band-aid at this won't fix anything. Yes, something else is afoot here. Why will no one address the worthless money?
Why will no one address the worthless money?
Why will no one address the worthless money?

[Lauxa]

Ron Paul did, but no one cared. How can anyone address the worthless money when no one cares?

[Barcs]

It's because most people believe that our monetary system is actually real, when it's really just a system that is based on interest. Basically making money off of something that doesn't exist. It's smart on their part, but overall for our country it makes no sense. We should go back to the gold standard. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this crisis was manufactured, just like the original great depression. If people start getting paranoid, people will start withdrawing large sums of money that the banks can't afford and they will all go under. Exactly what happened in the great depression. A panic was manufactured and it's effects were devastating. I see signs of this already on TV with Palin talking about great depression and Bush saying we are in a big financial crisis. People will be flocking to the banks if this doesn't improve.

[Poster]

If I have this correctly, and I believe I do.

1) the 700 billion is an injection of money into the financial system in order to free up frozen credit. Credit is frozen because banks are unwilling to lend to each other, and therefore consumers because they are afraid that borrowers may go bankrupt, and thereby will not be repaid. Therefore the 700 billion is the taxpayer telling the banking/credit industry to go ahead and do the lending to one another with with this money instead us using their own. This way they have nothing to lose. However, the money must be used for this purpose only, not to be grabbed and held on to. That's why participation is voluntary, and government over site comes with the deal as well. The executive cap is also part of the deal, so the money doesn't slowly end up in the personal bank accounts of CEO's in the way of bonuses.

2) The 700 billion is separate from the buying of firms such as Freddie, Fannie and AIG, those companies are now government owned businesses. The cap on executive compensation also applies here. The problem I see with this maneuver is the potential of the government holding onto these companies, and if they in fact regain their prior profitability, the government will sell them on the cheap and the taxpayer will once again be screwed.

This entire fiasco may be a watershed moment for America in that America may have to come to terms with the idea that laissez-faire is a flawed economic philosophy, which I have always believed it is. I'm much more of a socialist economically speaking (socially as well...and I'm American). America may have to admit after all that Europe has had a better understanding of how to properly mix capitalism and socialism.

What I'm finding so interesting from reading what people think of this dilemma from visiting forums such as this one, is that no one is asking why the American government has all this tax money piled up when up until 2006 republicans have run the show? I mean, all this so called lower taxes and return the money to the people seemed to be a big lie. It seems they've been stockpiling our money just for this very purpose, which of course means that they never really did have that much faith in laissez-faire all along.

Hypocrites? You tell me. Is the democratic any better? I don't really know, but probably not.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Barcs

It's because most people believe that our monetary system is actually real, when it's really just a system that is based on interest. Basically making money off of something that doesn't exist. It's smart on their part, but overall for our country it makes no sense. We should go back to the gold standard. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this crisis was manufactured, just like the original great depression. If people start getting paranoid, people will start withdrawing large sums of money that the banks can't afford and they will all go under. Exactly what happened in the great depression. A panic was manufactured and it's effects were devastating. I see signs of this already on TV with Palin talking about great depression and Bush saying we are in a big financial crisis. People will be flocking to the banks if this doesn't improve.

Thats interesting and entirely possible. What do you think is the reasoning behind your suspicion?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Poster

What I'm finding so interesting from reading what people think of this dilemma from visiting forums such as this one, is that no one is asking why the American government has all this tax money piled up when up until 2006 republicans have run the show? I mean, all this so called lower taxes and return the money to the people seemed to be a big lie. It seems they've been stockpiling our money just for this very purpose, which of course means that they never really did have that much faith in laissez-faire all along.

There are no stacks of money being used. This is all deficit spending, isn't it?

For example, the Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac bailout nearly doubled the national debt.

[JMan]

Originally Posted by Poster

What I'm finding so interesting from reading what people think of this dilemma from visiting forums such as this one, is that no one is asking why the American government has all this tax money piled up when up until 2006 republicans have run the show? I mean, all this so called lower taxes and return the money to the people seemed to be a big lie. It seems they've been stockpiling our money just for this very purpose, which of course means that they never really did have that much faith in laissez-faire all along.

how the Fed works:
How does the Fed add cash, and who benefits? - USATODAY.com
FRB: The Federal Reserve System Purposes and Functions
The Structure of the Federal Reserve System

and the dark side: The Fed Is Lifeblood to the Root of Evil

[Poster]

Originally Posted by JMan

how the Fed works:
How does the Fed add cash, and who benefits? - USATODAY.com
FRB: The Federal Reserve System Purposes and Functions
The Structure of the Federal Reserve System

and the dark side: The Fed Is Lifeblood to the Root of Evil

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

There are no stacks of money being used. This is all deficit spending, isn't it?

For example, the Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac bailout nearly doubled the national debt.

I knew that about the buyouts, and that the rationale was that money could simply be printed as a back up to make the deal work.

[Dan.Linehan]

Money as Debt is another good video on the money supply.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by JMan

Someone on TV today posed that they could give the $700billion to us, the population, saying 'we'd all be millionaires'. Someone didn't run the math:

There's 305million American citizens - that would be $2295 each.

U.S. Population: U.S. and World Population Clocks - POPClocks

Why the hell should we pay these idiots? Why don't the average citizens get paid for once????

[Brutha]

Why don't the average citizens get paid for once????

You mean the way he was handed a check at the beginning of the year?

[Poster]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Money as Debt is another good video on the money supply.

Thanks, that was very enlightening.

[Dannyboy1]

and now he's asking us to bail him out. It's ridiculous. How much is he going to put in? Not a dime. And he's the one who did it.

[tobyhede]

What are you guys doing about it?
Are you contacting your representatives to tell them you're against this?

There are ample altrernatives to this being mooted by people with understanding of the financial system, but this bailout is basically going to be a trillion dollars funnelled away from average taxpaying Americans into the pockets of the elite.

So, what are you all doing to protect your future?

[Nick Topolos]

@Toby,

Our representatives don't care.

Only 30% of Americans supported the Wall Street bailout / rescue --> yet, BBC NEWS | Business | US 'agrees Wall Street bail-out'

[Brutha]

Our representatives don't care.

Directly before an elections representives do care about what the people in their district thing about them.
If you can show that the representive will lose his election if he supports the bill, he cares.
To do that you naturally need to do more than writing him a copy of some chain email.

[coollikeme]

so who stands to benefit. Guess who? The banks, because the tax payers are going to bailout them out. Banks can never fail, even when they mess up, they get the tax payers to do there dirty work. The same people that were controlling the world will still be at the helm. When are we going to learn, this is what I see happening if the bailout package goes through. It works for a little while, then guess what more foreclosures will come, even double what they thought. Then who is going to pay for the banks again. US!! If people can't pay off there houses then the bank is not going to make any money plain and simple. Let the strong survive and reconstruct this country, why would you want bad companies to run this country and the world. Dems do your job and stop the bailout and you get my vote. DON"T LET THE BANKS USE US!!!!

[JMan]

Originally Posted by Nick Topolos

@Toby,

Our representatives don't care.

Only 30% of Americans supported the Wall Street bailout / rescue --> yet, BBC NEWS | Business | US 'agrees Wall Street bail-out'

Hopefully McCain gets his way out of these meetings and protects the taxpayers - putting the burden back on Wall Street and letting the markets correct themselves via lending - no $700billion burden to the little guys.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by JMan

Hopefully McCain gets his way out of these meetings and protects the taxpayers - putting the burden back on Wall Street and letting the markets correct themselves via lending - no $700billion burden to the little guys.

Did McCain release a statement to this effect?

Because 90% of the time McCain votes alongside of Bush, and this bailout is Bush's idea.

[Brutha]

According to Krugman McCain collapsed the current consensus around the bill.

[Winter]

Originally Posted by Brutha

According to Krugman McCain collapsed the current consensus around the bill.

Good.