Is it racist to hate Radical islam?

[Akashic_Librarian]

As many people in the west are aware of Fundamental Islam is becoming a growing problem. Demographically speaking Muslims are becoming the majority.

As I read the paper this morning I saw an article with a picture attached of a Muslim man shouting angrily at the camera, waving a sign that said "Europe is the cancer, Islam is the cure." Now I don't know about you, but I don't want that.

It begs the question as to why we give these people a platform to speak on.

Islam at a fundamental level is a barbaric religion that advocates stoning for homosexuality, behading for adultery, and amputation for thievery along with hangings and flogging and who knows what else. I don't care what our governments say about it, multiculturalism is dangerous. I don't want this religion penetrating my legal system, I don't want my kids going to a school where women are treated like pigs, and men are allowed to insult other races without factual knowledge of said race.

I don't want a legal system which means my future wife or daughter has to cover her flesh, or who can't leave the house unless she is with a male relative, or who could get killed for being raped.

What can be done about this problem? I am tempted to say it would be best to lash out at the Muslim communities, but unfortunately there will be some innocents among them, some who want nothing but to live a life of quiet peace without trying to shove their values on to others without explaining or expecting compromise.

[garentee]

The key word in your post is fundamental. All religions have their fundamentalists. This does not mean that all followers of said religion are fundamentalists. Fundies get the most press because they are the extreme.People need to learn to get along with other people of differing beliefs. Multiculturalism can work if we all learn to accept that others do not believe as we do. I cannot see the point in shunning an entire group of people that do not have the same belief as I do. Everybody has something to offer and their spiritual beliefs are but one part of that person. Certainly there are plenty among us who will disagree with me and that is totally fine. I had a friend who was raised in a very religious household and his beliefs are strong and unbending,and it is probably because of that reason that he has branded me as a horrible person. I think that religion has a place, however when it is taken to extremes it cancels out the original intent. The tenets of most religions are very similar to one another and they do speak to living a principled life. At their very best they can teach valuable lessons, at their worst they can be like what you described above.
Islam itself is not bad, there are a lot of mis perceptions that occur and people tend to further their own agendas in the name of religion. I will say that I am not a member of any religion and have no ax to grind against those that are.... personally I go to church every time I step outside.

[Brutha]

In general hating people is an emotional way of dealing with them. It clouds judgement.
Even when it comes to dangerous criminals, I wouldn't say that I hate those people.

They desire for easy answer is also problematic because you can't simply use force to combat radicals, as it gives those radicals support from their community if you use force in a way that community radically disaproves of.

What can be done about this problem? I am tempted to say it would be best to lash out at the Muslim communities, but unfortunately there will be some innocents among them, some who want nothing but to live a life of quiet peace without trying to shove their values on to others without explaining or expecting compromise.

Actually a majority of them doesn't want radical islam.

[Fullcrum]

I am a Muslim, and all I have to say for now is that the issue is far more complex than your emotionally polarized responses demonstrate understanding of.

And no, it's not racist to hate radical Muslims.

However:

Hate in general has no place in my reality and it should not in yours because it clouds your judgement and misaligns you with truth, parimarily in this case, but also love to a large degree.

A better way to look at the problem internally is to look at the ideas of the various groups you "hate" and see the ideas that you do not like because they lead to a place you do not want to go.

Ideas lead places. Ideas convey information. Most ideas have directions, which, in this case, if followed through and lived by, lead to a place that is not in alignment with truth, love, and power. This is seriously a much more empowered way to look at "radical" groups. You take the ideas objectively and see if they are in alignment of where you want to go. Hence, this requires you having a purpose and a well-defined sense of direction or goals.

And so you state the ideas, but without the emotional attachment of hate or whatnot that will just cloud your judgement to more information, a better way to solve the issue, or other important information. Some emotional states can open you up to learning more, but others, like the hate you express, close you off. So you start thinking in polarized terms like "let's lash out against their community" or some such nonsense.

Hate creates a "for/against" mentailty, and while that might be useful for motivation, it's a poor way to look at politics and culture, no matter how extreme.

[JaredR]

Islam is a fundamentally beautiful religion and in my opinion a very rich spiritual tradition. There are many angry, violent Muslims who advocate fundamentalism, but this is a very narrow slice of a very broad pie.

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I don't want this religion penetrating my legal system, ... and men are allowed to insult other races without factual knowledge of said race.


What can be done about this problem? I am tempted to say it would be best to lash out at the Muslim communities, but unfortunately there will be some innocents among them,

So you want to destroy what you don't understand.

That makes you different from fundamentalists, how exactly?

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Islam at a fundamental level is a barbaric religion that advocates stoning for homosexuality, behading for adultery, and amputation for thievery along with hangings and flogging and who knows what else.

. . .

I don't want a legal system which means my future wife or daughter has to cover her flesh, or who can't leave the house unless she is with a male relative, or who could get killed for being raped.

Islam, at a fundamental level, does not favor any of the punishments you've outlined. As a Muslim, the ideas of fundamentalists frighten me as much, if not more, than you. These ideas scare me because they distort the beauty of my religion into its opposite...

They also scare me because they are interpreted as the religion itself by outsiders. It is certainly not racist to oppose violence, to exhort reason, and defend those who would be victimized. The problem occurs when a person assumes that fundamentalists represent the majority.

Some fundamentalist Christians believe that the verse in Leviticus to put homosexuals to death should be taken literally, as a religious command. Some fundamentalist Muslims believe their religion requires them to do the same. Neither group is representative of the majority. Yet violence on the part of otherwise rational people will continue so long as the beliefs that cause fear and hate are assumed to be the beliefs of the majority.

[sheffy4]

Originally Posted by ThoughtAddict

Some fundamentalist Christians believe that the verse in Leviticus to put homosexuals to death should be taken literally, as a religious command. Some fundamentalist Muslims believe their religion requires them to do the same. Neither group is representative of the majority.

Yes Akashic, you should take other religions into account also. The Christian Bible is pretty horrifying if you read it literally. I suggest learning more about Islam, perhaps read the Qu'ran, or Koran (what is the preferred spelling?) and see what it's all about instead of forming your opinions based on what the media show you.

[backpocket]

Originally Posted by sheffy4

Qu'ran, or Koran (what is the preferred spelling?)

Qur'an

And Akashic, this just sounds like a gross generalization of Islam.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

As many people in the west are aware of Fundamental Islam is becoming a growing problem.

No, terrorists and radical fundamentalists are the problem.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

As I read the paper this morning I saw an article with a picture attached of a Muslim man shouting angrily at the camera, waving a sign that said "Europe is the cancer, Islam is the cure." Now I don't know about you, but I don't want that."

Are all Muslims pissed off? Have you even met one? Or tens or hundreds of them to truly understand them, or read up about Islam? Hell, they're all around me, and they're usually a bunch of nice people. And Islam is a religion, so you can't be racist for hating them.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

What can be done about this problem? I am tempted to say it would be best to lash out at the Muslim communities, but unfortunately there will be some innocents among them, some who want nothing but to live a life of quiet peace without trying to shove their values on to others without explaining or expecting compromise.

Why are you concentrating so much on what you don't want? And why do you believe all Muslims are evil? And why do you believe the best way to remove something you don't like is by lashing at it

And like sheffy4 said, try reading up about them instead of just thinking of them as angry Arabs in turbans and beards with an AK47.

I used to be a Muslim for 16 years, so hey, I know what I'm talking about.

[Still Growing]

War has been declared on the Western World.....

Its not your choice of whether you are war with them because they have declared war on YOU. Muslim extremists laugh at our liberalism and how we even stand up and fight for their rights to hate while we condemn our own rights to fight. They view the western world as cowards.

1. Ahmadinejad, the President of Iran said " Islam will rule every mountain top in the world". This was a very fundamentalist statement and many people on this site have defended him as a non radical.
2. Hasan Nasrallah, from the Hezbollah said, that it was "OK to kill any non muslim".
3. They were teaching kids in school in Palestine and elsewhere that all non muslims are their enemies and to be dealt with by death. That all Jews drink the blood of children and are spawn of satan.

Its funny how we condemn even the slight harshist tone of Akashic towards Muslims and we say its full of hate. Where is the outrage over the muslim extremist's hate?!

In the Western world we are so careful not to be labeled a racist or being non tolerant. We stamp out any form of insensitivity among us. Meanwhile there is an army gathering and the new youth being propigated for an uncoming Jihad that will be WWIII. Socialistic Europeans think they only hate the UK and the US but no.... they hate you too.

These people don't understand love, compromise, compassion or caring. They have hijacked their religion and they are spreading it everywhere as the real word of Allah. In the past Christians went to war with Islam. If this were 1,000 years ago muslims would be rounded up and all killed. Thankfully the world has progressed however the fundamentalist have not. They speak of their history and of their tribulations. They have not forgotten how the Christians and Jews have fought them for centuries. Now they will fight us and use our fears against us. Our liberalistic ways have conquered the world of finance and consumerism now they will attempt to use our liberalism and fear of fighting against us. They know our weakspot and this is where they will focus.

What is needed is for Muslims to stand up and fight (verbally) for their religion back. But the problem is that some are afraid ( I don't blame them) and the others have pity for the extremists (because after all Mohammed did say it). This is a complex dilema. I do know that only the good muslims can reach the hearts of the new generation of Muslim children and show them the way towards love not hate. We must change the next generation because this generation will not change. We must show them love, compromise and truth and the next generation will see the light.

We must reach out to the children of the extemists; this is the only way.

[Brutha]

Its funny how we condemn even the slight harshist tone of Akashic towards Muslims and we say its full of hate. Where is the outrage over the muslim extremist's hate?!

First talking about lashing out a group of people isn't "slight harshist". It's harsh.
Second if someone on this forum would come here and spread muslim extremist hate that person would instantly be banned.

Our liberalistic ways have conquered the world of finance and consumerism now they will attempt to use our liberalism and fear of fighting against us. They know our weakspot and this is where they will focus.

I don't think that liberalism is the weakness here.
It's fear of death and terrorism that's the weakness, Muslim radicals want to use.

We must show them love, compromise and truth and the next generation will see the light.

Love is the opposite of hate. You can't show someone love by hating them.

You should also keep in mind that Akashic is talking about UK muslims and not about those in Iran, Lebanon or Palestine.

[Still Growing]

Brutha,
I am not saying that Akashic is being PC, nor am I saying I agree with him 100% however my point is still valid.

I'm saying that in today's world we judge people like Akashic much more fiercly than we do the muslim extremists themselves. Your reaction to him and me proves that point IMO.

Yes what he said was harsh; harsh of radical fundamentalists. Akashic said he was speaking of Fundamentalists and proceeded to give fundamentalistic type activities that he condemned. I didn't see where he said "all" Muslims are this or that.

He did not spread Christian hate so how can you compare his condemnation of Fundamentalism to the same thing as if a Fundamentalist came on the site and spewed hate? You see Brutha, this is the problem.... That people are held to different standards.

If you don't read his comments precisely it could be taken out of context. Why don't you ask him if he thinks all muslim people are that way. I think you know what his answer would be and therefore why ask it right?

Lets just jump to the defense of the minority like we always do. I am a very socially liberal person however there is a flaw in our reaction to fundamentalism. We are quick to see their side and jump to their defense. This is ludacris ! Why should we jump to the defense of a group that wants to end the Western culture completely. They want to convert the entire world to their religion by force or by death.

Furthermore Akashic may be been speaking about a UK muslim however that UK muslim said "Europe is a cancer, Islam is the cure". Akashic condemned that, he condemned beheading people, stoning for homosexuality, behading for adultery and amputation for thievery. Akashic please stop condemning these actions it sounds like you're saying that all muslims do this ! Oh wait, at the end he said "He was tempted to say we should lash out at the entire muslim community but then concluded otherwise since there would be innocent muslims harmed." C'mon how can you compare him to a muslim fundamentalist. This is the slightly harsh rheotic I was referring to where he did not go all the way with his statement, unlike these crazy fundamentalists. Thats right I said "Crazy". I bet that makes some people's skin crawl that I would say that about a minority group. But LETS LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE CONDEMNING. I believe that moderate muslims feel the same way in private. They know their religion is being hijacked by these lunatics !

I respect you Brutha and I've read enough of your posts to get a sense for your logic. I think that had he made the comments in German you would have understand the subtleties. In English the context can be miscontrued. So for you I think thats the case however I know for sure that there is a double standard working here.

[Akashic_Librarian]

OK so I don't hate ALL Muslims, in my school I do have to interact with Muslims so I am aware of their culture, at least in my area, and what I have seen is intolerance to ours. There were signs that said "Merry Christmas" and they pulled them down, and then put up signs that said "Happy Rammadan" now I don't know about you but if the muslim youth of a sub-urban to urban area is not representative I don't know what is.

Or lets consider the Muslim Council of Britain, a human rights group (apparently) seeking only to instill Muslim law and belief into ours, and forcing all school children to obey Muslim Law, making women cover up in public etc...etc...

Thats not beautiful to me...That doesn't say love to me.

The terrorists and fundamentalists ARE Muslim's and like it or not they now represent a large (and powerful) majority of the religion, and like it or not, they are dangerous.

I do hate Christian fundamentalism (well I just hate Christianity frankly, but I don't take it out on people), the difference between Fundamental Christianity and Fundamnetal Islam is that Christianity doesn't threaten to destroy all life on Earth that disagrees with it, at best its a useful banner to hide under, at worse it can discredit politicians.

Whatever you might say about Islam being a religion of peace, or love and light etc...I honestly have never seen that. What I see are racist bigots who hate democracy, freedom of speech and equal rights, those three things are denounced in its so-called holy book and as such I cannot in good conscience take it seriously, and in fact work actively against such an abomination gaining power.

Just as a note I also feel the same about all religion. Quite frankly I feel that Religion is getting to the end of it's life, healthy agnosticism is the only real way to move forward, in truth I say I am an Atheist-Agnostic, I don't know, I don't think you know, and I am quite happy not to believe until proven otherwise, but funilly enough I don't claim Jihad on the rest of world for thinking differently.

Funny that...

[ar81]

You have fundamentalist muslims, fundamentalist christians, fundamentalist left wingers, fundamentalist right wingers...
Should we ban and hate muslims, christians, left wingers, right wingers?

I have some news, natural disasters in the last 50 years have killed more people in the world than global terrorism. Earthquake in China killed 15 times the amount of US soldiers killed in Iraq. So if you think about national security, you should think about nature and environment.

It is told that chinese culture is 4000 years old, but by year 250 AC there were 3 kingdoms (Wu, Shu and Wei) and no China. People fought and died for nothing, none of those kigndoms survived.

Hitites won a war over Egyptian empire and today they are extinct, and we barely know a few details about their culture and we know more about the culture of the losing side (egyptians). So being a winning superpower does not mean that it will exist or be remembered.

I believe politicians exaggerate their importance. I think politicians are pop star wannabes.

Politicians want power and money, and they need to be alive to enjoy them. After you study and dig enough history, you discover that despite of the strong words politicians exchange or their yellow journalist speech aimed at make you to fear, humanity was never close to extinction. They have played theatrical acts to manipulate people of the world.

Göering said in 1946, in his trial in Nuremberg, that the best a peasant can get from war is to get back in one piece. But politicians lead a country and it is just a matter of making population to feel threatened and call pacifists as antipatriots to star a war.

If I was you I would not bother about hating anyone. Better pick a soccer team and vent your anxiety at the stadium.

[Ecce Homo]

If you don't mind SG, I'd like to jump in. I found your points thought provoking and interesting. I applaud your passion and your commitment to fairness.

Originally Posted by Still Growing

Its not your choice of whether you are war with them because they have declared war on YOU.

Well, you could be right, maybe there are radical Muslims who have declared war against me personally, but I have not gotten the memo. And although I agree with you when you imply that I do not have the power to stop people from thinking that they are at war with me, I most certainly do have the power to decide whether I will be at war with them.

Its funny how we condemn even the slight harshist tone of Akashic towards Muslims and we say its full of hate. Where is the outrage over the muslim extremist's hate?!

I’m curious. Why would you be interested in other’s people’s lack of outrage?

In the Western world we are so careful not to be labeled a racist or being non tolerant. We stamp out any form of insensitivity among us.

You sure about that? I’m guessing you’ll find several minority groups in the US who may beg to differ.

These people don't understand love, compromise, compassion or caring…

Again, how do you know this?

We must show them love, compromise and truth and the next generation will see the light.

Of course, I’m all for showing others love. I’m also for showing people love whether they see the light or not. I’m too busy trying to make sure I see the light, know what I mean? That's why I'm a big fan of unconditional love.

I'm saying that in today's world we judge people like Akashic much more fiercly than we do the muslim extremists themselves.

We do? Well, again I must admit that you might be right. What also came to mind when I read your statement was how our judgment of Muslim extremists moved us to go to war with them, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of civilians, people who may not have been involved in any terrorist attacks whatsoever, in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Their judgment of us lead to thousands of innocent people dying, and in turn our judgment of them lead to thousands of innocent people dying. And this doesn't include, of course, the thousands of men and women in the Western armies who have pledged and given their own lives in service to their countries. Judgment seems to come with a high cost, in my view.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

I’m curious. Why would you be interested in other’s people’s lack of outrage?

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke.

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein.

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster. And if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche.

[Ecce Homo]

How does this sound?

As many people in the west are aware of, fundamentalist Christianity is becoming a growing problem. Demographically speaking, Christians are the majority.

As I was surfing the internet this morning, I saw an article with a picture of a Christian man shouting angrily at the camera, waving a sign that said “Liberals are the cancer, Christ is the cure!” Now I don’t know about you, but I don’t want that.

It begs the question as to why we give “these people” a platform to speak on.

Christianity at a fundamental level is a barbaric religion that advocates stoning for homosexuality and adultery, the execution of all witches, the beating of children for their own good and who knows what else. I don’t care what our governments say about it, multiculturalism is dangerous. I don’t want this religion penetrating my legal system any further than it already has. I don’t want my kids going to a school where they are forced to pray whether they want to or not or where they are taught backward mythology rather than science. This religion allows and even encourages its members to preach that women should not have control over their bodies and should instead be slaves to their men and now that I mention it, it also gave a moral haven for slave owners and racists in general for hundreds of years!

What can be done about this “problem”, this growing menace to our society? I am tempted to say it would be best to lash out at Christian communities, but unfortunately there will be some innocents among them, some who want nothing but to live a life of quiet peace without trying to shove their values on to others without explaining or expecting compromise.

Now replace Christian in the above with atheist-agnostic, homosexual, liberal, black, Asian, illegal immigrants... You get the gist. If I'm not mistaken, the lack of approval for the OP stems from interpreting it in that light.

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke.

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein.

Hmmm. Good points. I also wonder if it is really true that I won't take action if I don't also feel outraged or that I need to villify another person or group of people to counter what I perceive as "evil". Isn't it a possibility that I can take action from a place of love rather than a moral high ground? In my experience, the moral high ground (from where else can you experience moral outrage?) can quite easily become a slippery slope. Man, I hate falling down slippery slopes!

[Akashic_Librarian]

Why do people keep trying to use my argument to apply to Christians or anything else? I wasn't talking about Christians, I was talking about Muslims, I was talking about ISLAM. If it offends you that someone should dare to insult the WHOLE religion, then tough. I am not about to sugar coat an issue.

I don't want to hear about how I could apply to anyone I hated, I don't want to hear about how Islam is really the religion of Peace, or how it's just another path to enlightenment. Frankly it has started to impede my personal freedoms, it has started to become far too respected for my liking. It is a dangerous belief system that is causing a great many problems.

Furthermore I don't want to hear about how Fundamentalism is only a small percentage and is not representative of real Islam, well I have news for you, it is. Its the religion as it truly is when you take away all the diplomacy nonsense we are fed by Human Rights comissions and the mass media, and before I get attacked its the same for any religion ok.

[Holistic Star]

Hi AL

Which personal freedoms that you want to express are being directly impeded?

That's a genuine question btw. I want to understand exactly what you are up against.

[Elrond]

This thread brings back nostalgia of when I used to lurk this thread:

male inequality and why I don't feel comfy as a man anymore.

Let's see if history repeats itself.

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I don't want to hear about how I could apply to anyone I hated, I don't want to hear about how Islam is really the religion of Peace, or how it's just another path to enlightenment. Frankly it has started to impede my personal freedoms, it has started to become far too respected for my liking. It is a dangerous belief system that is causing a great many problems.

Alrighty then. Well I have only thing left to say: As-Salāmu `Alaykum!

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Elrond

This thread brings back nostalgia of when I used to lurk this thread:

male inequality and why I don't feel comfy as a man anymore.

Let's see if history repeats itself.

Thanks for the link! I'm reading that thread now and it's proving to be educational.

[Brutha]

I think you know what his answer would be and therefore why ask it right?

This is not the first discussion about Muslims with Akashic. Past discussions give me context.

Why don't you ask him if he thinks all muslim people are that way.

The terrorists and fundamentalists ARE Muslim's and like it or not they now represent a large (and powerful) majority of the religion, and like it or not, they are dangerous.

He did not spread Christian hate

I never suggested that he comes from a Christian perspective.

so how can you compare. his condemnation of Fundamentalism to the same thing as if a Fundamentalist came on the site and spewed hate?

You compared my treatment of him with my treatments of fundamentalists.

The difference here is that he is on this site with makes him subject to being judged by other standards.
I judge people based on their enviroment.
Akashic is smart and interested in personal development which creates expectations that are simply different from the expectations that I have for some average person on the street.

Young Muslims 'are turning to extremism' - Telegraph A poll last year by Populus found that 13 per cent of Muslims aged 16 to 24 "admire organisations like al-Qa'eda that are prepared to fight the West".

13% are no majority.

2000 individuals in the UK are suspected of having links to terrorism in that article. Those are the people that participate in your war.

If you say that there is a war and there two sides and you draw your lines around more than those 2000 individuals you give them supporters.

Supporters is what they need. When you want to convince those 13% from changing their opinion stating that you are at war with them is a big strategic mistake.

Counter-terrorism officials rethink stance on Muslims | UK news | The Guardian is a nice article about how the MI5 start thinking that being careful with words matters.
It's not about some ideal of multiculturalism and the human rights of majorities. It's about being effective.
Cutting back civil liberties is not enough to combat terrorism.

War has changed. You seem still to be in that state vs state frame.

Now replace Christian in the above with atheist-agnostic, homosexual, liberal, black, Asian, illegal immigrants...
If I'm not mistaken, the lack of approval for the OP stems from interpreting it in that light.

No, it comes from him saying thing that are wrong.
There a small percentage of Muslims that are a real threat. That's not the case for the other groups in your list.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

If you don't mind SG, I'd like to jump in. I found your points thought provoking and interesting. I applaud your passion and your commitment to fairness.

Well, you could be right, maybe there are radical Muslims who have declared war against me personally, but I have not gotten the memo. And although I agree with you when you imply that I do not have the power to stop people from thinking that they are at war with me, I most certainly do have the power to decide whether I will be at war with them..

Go speak to a few and you'll get the memo I promise you. My solution was to educate and teach the children and to lead through compassion and not war. You can be at war with their ideology without being physical. We should be at war with their ideology but not through force.

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

I’m curious. Why would you be interested in other’s people’s lack of outrage? .

Based upon the hypocrisy I see in this thread alone.

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Again, how do you know this?.

Because the leaders of the individual extremist groups announce it.

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

We do? Well, again I must admit that you might be right. What also came to mind when I read your statement was how our judgment of Muslim extremists moved us to go to war with them, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of civilians, people who may not have been involved in any terrorist attacks whatsoever, in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Their judgment of us lead to thousands of innocent people dying, and in turn our judgment of them lead to thousands of innocent people dying. And this doesn't include, of course, the thousands of men and women in the Western armies who have pledged and given their own lives in service to their countries. Judgment seems to come with a high cost, in my view.

Like I said we're at war whether you like it or not. You will either deal with it today or pay for it tomorrow. The best solution is not through war but through resolution over Palestine (if possible) and our own propoganda.

Honestly, your reactions would be different if we were talking about Christians bombing abortion clinincs.... You wouldn't ask "How I know this" or "speaking about our police action against them" or "questioning in general". I've made my point that its un PC to speak out against muslim fundamentalists; that was my only goal.

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Still Growing

My solution was to educate and teach the children and to lead through compassion and not war...

The best solution is not through war but through resolution over Palestine (if possible) and our own propoganda...

Well I wish you the best of luck in your efforts to educate future generations about the consequences of hate and violence and in being an exemplar of compassion. Seriously, we all need people like you doing what you do to spread light and understanding in the world!

Honestly, your reactions would be different if we were talking about Christians bombing abortion clinincs.... You wouldn't ask "How I know this" or "speaking about our police action against them" or "questioning in general"...

As always, you are welcome to believe precisely what you want about my reactions. I’d not dream of attempting to persuade you personally of anything different. But for any other readers, honestly my reactions would not be different, are not different. I am quite clear about the importance of honest and sincere questioning in my own life. It’s done wonders for my disposition!

[schola]

Islam is not a race.

[Brutha]

Like I said we're at war whether you like it or not. You will either deal with it today or pay for it tomorrow. The best solution is not through war but through resolution over Palestine (if possible) and our own propoganda.

Our own propaganda line is: There some violent extremists. Those happen to be bad people, not because they are Muslims but because they are violent.

You derivate from that propaganda line.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Well I wish you the best of luck in your efforts to educate future generations about the consequences of hate and violence and in being an exemplar of compassion. Seriously, we all need people like you doing what you do to spread light and understanding in the world!

You are taking what I said out of context.

I am saying that instead of agression we should lead by example, work out a Palestine resolution, be more balanced with Israel, and reach out to the next generation of children of the fundamentalist. Which part do you disagree with?

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

As always, you are welcome to believe precisely what you want about my reactions.

So you would be not mad if I condemned someone who bombed an abortion clinic? Why not?

Ecce Homo I said Islamic Fundamentalists are evil and don't know about caring or compassion. You asked how I could know this?
Well for one the Fundamentalists are saying that anyone who doesn't convert to Islam must die, that they will cut the heads off any non believers.... Does this sound evil to you?

You yourself said to replace the word Christian with Muslim in Akashic's posts. OK so you do the same... Replace the Fundamentalists words with "All non Christians must die". You would be outraged by this no?

In my opinion its time for Muslims to stand up and to reclaim Islam from the Fundamentalists. Its not the Western world destroying Islam its the fundamentalists.... Now thats irony.

[Still Growing]

Originally Posted by Brutha

This is not the first discussion about Muslims with Akashic. Past discussions give me context..

I hadn't read his previous posts and I was going by what he said in this thread alone. I don't see any reason why hating radical Islam would be seen as racists when Islam isn't a race.

I cannot vouch for Akashic but only for my on words and beliefs.

Its clear to me that a double standard exists. Why do we criticize people who show displeasure with radical Islam? They are hiding behind their religion and using religion to spread violence and hate.

We can all be tolerant of ideas, belief and speech but not of actions.